FOSA Preamble

Started by C-Chan, January 18, 2008, 02:29:04 pm

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Bella

This took just about an hour. I had a very fun time!  ;010

(BTW, these are references to Linux on zSeries and the infamous NetBSD toaster)

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Kiso

From here I will take Bella's patch seeing as it's more 'complete' than the previous ones. From here I will compile that one in combination with my own as I have many things fixed and one (e.g. full set of cabinets, more angle fixes, etc.).

Also I have a few suggestions to make:

--| We need to implement a Task Manager . Anyone of this job class will make sure that no one does two repeated things will be made.

-----|More on this, let's make everyone's lives easier by stating what is each one of us going to do in the project. Repeated tasks do slow us down people.

--| We need to start thinking on that Publisher job class that was suggested before. You know, the guy that will be in charge of submitting the final product.

--| We need to adopt a standard filename with this project.

It will be a bit confusing to keep track of if everyone uses "FOSAkitchen_<their-name>patch<#>.svg" every time they make a patch.

I suggest we do something like "FOSAkitchen_V<#>p<#>.svg", that way, we can all stay current with the exact version and patch number.

Version - Each version will be considered a fully completed image. In this case the Kitchen is still "V0p5" or so, got to count back to know which is the exact patch level..

Patch - Every time someone alters the SVG file. This can grow up to numbers like 100's, 1000's, or even more than that.
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NejinOniwa

Worked together Aurora's stuff with Bella's, and added in a few plates. Someone's having breakfast, after all ^-^
Took a bit longer since it crashed halfway through first time and I had to start over. -.-

Also, standard filename implemented, somewhat. In my idea we'll just use:
FOSAKitchen_s.v.p-<in>.svg
Where s=status, 1 if complete, 0 if WIP;  v=version number, simply we'll agree on when a new version milestone has been reached and change the number then;  p=patch number, the number of my current patch is 7; <in>= Initials, ex. CC for C-Chan, NO for NejinOniwa, and so on, max 3 letters or so.

Current file would thus be:
FOSAKitchen_0.1.7-NO.svg
which is what I'm uploading right now. -w-

A small patch, but I'll make up for it by working more throughout the day since I don't really have much else to do. ^-^;

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YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

C-Chan

Sugoiness, Bella-sama!!  With one pen stroke, you've effectively cleaned up prerendered the kitchen, and even added some Nix humor to boot!  ^.^

Told you it was going to be fun.

Kissu-san, I hope to see these cabinets and angle fixes soon, cause the groceries are already starting pile up.  ^___^

BTW, I understand your suggestions, and who knows,... maybe one day we'll all feel the collective need to do any of these.

But I should point out the following to your points....

Task manager:  We're lucky now that there are so few people involved in this pilot run, to the point it almost SEEMS like we are effectively taking turns (so the Person B can simply work on whatever Person A did).  However, in a live production environment, you're going to have Person C, D, E, F, G, H, I, and J working simultaneously -- and just like with real FOSS projects, double-work will be inevitable.  And managing all these people may not only be inefficient (if not impossible), but it's also stifling to imagination as well.

Part of the beauty that I hope will be FOSA is in the personal freedom to do what you want, as well as in the blend that will result from works produced by more than one person.  In the case of the same object, will it slow us down to have two people working on it without even realizing?  Maybe.  But then when a compiler merges the two elements together, will not the resulting compromise be all the more richer in detail?  I'm confident it will.  Maybe my cabinet has only empty shelves, and yours is one empty box with a glass door with a metal handle -- combine the two, and you get a cabinet with shelves, a glass door and a metal handle.

Catch my drift?  ^__^

Publisher:  Well there's no one really to submit this final product to, and besides,... just like with the nature of FOSS,... there can never really be a "finished product".  The most we can hope for is a tenuous version 1.0 at best, and even then anyone's more than free to keep working on a v1.0.1. 1.3. 2.0. etc, even as everyone else moves on to less complete projects....

Standard filenames and Version #'s:  This again might be harder to do with more people working simultaneously.  HOWEVER,... I think of all the ideas proposed, this one can actually lend the most polish to the FOSA process.  Even though this is not something that we can reliably commit to in a thread format,... I do believe our "powers-that-be" have taken my FOSA proposal seriously, and are planning extensions to this forum that may be dedicated exclusively to FOSA art.  And yes, that would include auto-created standardized patch names and professional development branches.  ^.^

So I definitely hear you loud and clear here, and all I can say is maybe we can do something nice for you after the Pilot Run.  ^___^

Added after 1 minutes:

Sorry Nejin,... you posted just before I finished that.  Stand by while I look at your stuff.  ^.^

Added after 17 minutes:

Excellent, Nejin-san.  ^^
(FYI, almost forgot,... save often in the Windows version, cause it does get a little crashy... reason why I want to migrate to version 0.46).
Let me know what you think so far.  Probably doesn't beat the fun of a lounge game just yet, but is this something you think you'll be enjoying long term?  ^___^

From what I can see from everyone else's enthusiasm, I have high hopes for this one.  ^___^

BTW, do you know who's light fixture on the left is from?

Also, I'm submitting an uber-quick fix to my cereal box which I overlooked yesterday, plus a repositioning of the new floor shading.


PS:  What does "WIP" stand for?  ''

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Kiso

Hmm... that's somewhat significant... though I had just finished compiling Bell's with mine.

What I had done:
--|Angle fixes.
--|Addition of a complete set of cabinets. (Using mine.)
------|The tower "cabinet" set should be given an oven and a microwave or be turned into a rack for stuff instead of being turned into a cabinet.
--|Created "Objects" layer to place all objects there instead of the currently overstocked "layer 2".

Because this patch does not include NO's I guess this will be "0.1.7b-KS".

I'll be getting the file up momentarily.

EDIT: CC... "WIP" stands for Work In Progress... as in unfinished.

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C-Chan

Love the work on the cabinets!  Also, yes, I was hoping we could fill up the tower cabinet with something more than just shelves, and that sounds like the ticket.  ^__^

BTW, don't feel compelled to compile everything on your own if you don't want to.  Maybe you do, but if it proves a hassle, I can do that later on and call it the official milestone release (say, version 2).

You just concentrate on doing what you want to do, then post.  ^^

Added after 2 minutes:

BTW,... in order to maximize detail,... are we considering turning those into glass door cabinets further down the line?  ^___^


Kiso

Woah... major goal to achieve. In any case... this Pilot FOSA project is simply just a testing ground? So then... 1.2.X's are the official versions? Wow... my brain just twitched into the future and made me wonder on which will be the official OS-tans for the FOSA project... the many Vistans also influenced this thought... I imagined a bunch of variations fighting over who stays. O_O'

Another question... do we have to make props in the file? I mean... it's simpler if people upload the pieces and another person compiles them... I think. Well... at least it will keep filesizes down for the peepz with the dialups (like me who got broadband grounded O_O' *now has broadband only at college*). Final question in regards to filesize... does the compressed SVG format reduce quality of anything within a file?
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NejinOniwa

QuoteBTW,... in order to maximize detail,... are we considering turning those into glass door cabinets further down the line? ^___^

Definitely a charming possibility. And since it seems I've gotten/taken the role of our Compiler here, I'll fix that up as soon as anything comes up. Don'tcha worry, yan!

QuoteWoah... major goal to achieve. In any case... this Pilot FOSA project is simply just a testing ground? So then... 1.2.X's are the official versions? Wow... my brain just twitched into the future and made me wonder on which will be the official OS-tans for the FOSA project... the many Vistans also influenced this thought... I imagined a bunch of variations fighting over who stays. O_O'

Another question... do we have to make props in the file? I mean... it's simpler if people upload the pieces and another person compiles them... I think. Well... at least it will keep filesizes down for the peepz with the dialups (like me who got broadband grounded O_O' *now has broadband only at college*). Final question in regards to filesize... does the compressed SVG format reduce quality of anything within a file?

As far as I'm concerned, this pilot project is the lift-off, simply, the first official project. The 1.0.0 release will be the first officially "complete" release, while 1.x.x after that will be further variations, spinoffs or improvements over the 1.0.0 release. Each project gets its own setting, -tans and version listing, of course, so there's not really any specifics.

As for uploading pieces instead of the whole thing: If you feel like you're being short on bandwidth and would benefit from such a solution, sure. It'd put more workload on me as a compiler, and others who join in, but to be true I feel it's a bit lax now with the small amount of original stuff I'm doing -w-; It'll be a bit harder to keep track on what stuff is left to do, though, as well as heighten the need of some sort of task management. At this level though, I'm fine with it, so go ahead and prop up (although I personally think it's easier to work old-school style ^-^; )

Added after 24 minutes:

QuoteExcellent, Nejin-san. ^^
(FYI, almost forgot,... save often in the Windows version, cause it does get a little crashy... reason why I want to migrate to version 0.46).
Let me know what you think so far. Probably doesn't beat the fun of a lounge game just yet, but is this something you think you'll be enjoying long term? ^___^

From what I can see from everyone else's enthusiasm, I have high hopes for this one. ^___^


GUH. Just got another one like it, and it's driving me slightly crazy. Gotta remember to save much and often, in order to avoid losing it all (again) next time.
But other than that, it's been enjoyable, yes. Rawr. Somehow I think I kinda like compiling stuff.

Added after 9 minutes:

There we go! Got it all scratched up again, and this time also added in some extra (somewhat experimental) shading on the sink and tap. 0.1.8 is up and going, folks!

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YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

Kiso

Man... how unlucky can you get? I just hapen to be at a computer that does not have the Fox... I hate Internet Explorer... and most of all... I hate the compst at college. The people here has no sense of browsing superiority. --__--'
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NejinOniwa

I know how you feel, man. Luckily enough my school account's 60 mb was large enough to host my own Fox, maybe you should try the same? -w-
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

C-Chan

Holy Hell!  What a day it's been (in RL).  T___T

*scarfs down ulcer medicine*

But coming back here makes it all worth it, cause I see nothing but action, productivity, and hard critical thinking!  We haven't even officially started, and already you guys are working like a team!!!  GOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOUZ GUYS!!!!!!!!  ^V^

*C-chan nods head approvingly*

Nejin-san, thank you for compiling the Source art for me -- I definitely needed that, since I've hardly had time to eat lunch even!  ^.^

I think the relatively slow pace of the Pilot Run (notwithstanding the last 24 hours) has got us used to compiling over each other's patch files -- in essence, passing along the Source art.

In actuality, there might be too many simultaneous patches being worked on, that you will encounter instances such as the one where the sausage is missing from the patch file with the latest and greatest cabinets.  For this reason, the Source Art has to remain untouched (and probably get its own naming scheme) until someone declares that it's been updated with all the changes available to that person at the time.  This follows the same precedent in FOSS, with the inevitable last-minute patches not added to the latest build, until the next version.

For this reason also, Kissu-san is right in suggesting that individual patch art CAN only contain the changes being worked on.  Naturally, you have to use your better judgement here:  for example, I COULD'VE (but didn't, cause I'm baka ^^) have had the cereal be all by itself when I submitted the patch.  Likewise, if you're working on adding some plants to the ceiling, and the clouds are slowing your machine's performance down, you can delete them.  In fact, theoretically-speaking, you might be able to get away with producing the changes, then deleting everything else around it so that the Compiler can simply copy and paste it into the exact position in the source (say, a vase over the table, or a dishwasher underneath the sink).

But again, just for now, it's better to limit single-item patches only to accessories that are meant to be moved around freely in the illustration.  I know I'll probably do that going forward.  ^__^

BTW, Nejin-san, it might be useful for you to learn how to Group items together, because that will be useful later when placing my cereal on the shelf and stuff.  I cover it in my tutorial (select, then CTRL+G), but let me know if you need any help.  ^^

Speaking of which, Nejin-san really nailed it on the releases.  Indeed, if I were to guess what his latest compiled Source Art is, I'd say it's version 0.02 at most.  Which means that there's a HELLUVA lot more that could be put into this pic before we can consider it complete.  Believe you and me, in a month's time, you won't even recognize our masterpiece from this, our very humble beginnings.  ^.^

So yes Kissu-san, that blows my mind away too.  ^___^
As far as "official" OS-tans go, it shouldn't come as a surprise that we'd want to focus more on homebrewed OS-tan Collections OS-tans.  Not to say that we wouldn't include canon OS-tans either (although as far as Vistans go, we sort-of endorse the Chiivistan one from +Nijiura+).  ^___^

QuoteFinal question in regards to filesize... does the compressed SVG format reduce quality of anything within a file?


I actually haven't tried it myself, so wouldn't know what to say about that.  There is the risk that it may not be compatible with a version of Inkscape earlier than 0.43 (not that it would happen  ^^') -- still, sounds like something an avid "Researcher" could find out.  ^.^

My outlook on everything is to be as "standard as possible".  
(except for the case of FOSA, which I have to say is pretty UNstandard.... ^^;)

Bella

I'm going to work on the pic a little bit, using Nejin's patch (which seems to encompass all of our additions).

I should also note I made a pattern fill that made the counters look more like granite...but for some reason it doesn't show up on my patch...

May I propose something, though? Before working on our picture, we should post some ideas planned for it. Just so nobody re-does something.

For instance, I plan on:

-making the cabinet fronts glassy, adding interior shelves
-coloring the walls, ceiling
-tiling the wall behind the sink counter (maybe...I ain't so great at pattern fills)
-trying to re-granite the counters -___-

Kiso

Since we're "home-brewing" the OS-tans... I gues most "non-canon" OS-tan designs will be up to mutual agreement by the FOSA team rather than global acceptance.

In the meantime... I will start work on written work in regards to character designs. But in that context we also need to come up with "our" standards in order to define how are we going to make the original FOSA OS-tans. But then again that is not really necesary to do... I mean, we could wound up supporting a concept that may be somewhat opposing what the OS itself may represent. Who knows?

But if we do get by making our own FOSA-original versions of the various OS-tans (excluding the canon ones that are already accepted by the whole world)... how are we to personify them to be accurate wth their program? Or are we leaving that to a person's creative license? I mean, we all may have different conceptions on what is used from the software to represent what in the character. Reading the wiki made me confused as to this matter. I guess I will come to later post up questions or thoughts as to how may OS tans be physically and mentally represented.

(Yes... I know this has been discussed many a time before.)
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C-Chan

Quote-making the cabinet fronts glassy, adding interior shelves
-coloring the walls, ceiling
-tiling the wall behind the sink counter (maybe...I ain't so great at pattern fills)
-trying to re-granite the counters -___-


Bella-san, are you viewing this through a browser window or something?  Your beautiful granite countertops are still there.  ^__^
(speaking of which, congrats are in order for your continued Pattern filling!)  ^.^

It makes a moot point since no one really redid any of your work yet,... but under the nature of FOSA, you have to get used to people altering your stuff a little every once in a while (after all, you can do the same).  Don't think I'm not eyeing your beautiful fridge, wondering if maybe one of the doors would look better opened.  -v-

Nonetheless, it also helps to plan if you want to,... or rather, more specifically, "brainstorm" ideas.  ^^

QuoteSince we're "home-brewing" the OS-tans... I gues most "non-canon" OS-tan designs will be up to mutual agreement by the FOSA team rather than global acceptance.


Well yeah, when we get to truly FOSA OS-tans.  But... Kissu-san,... you have visited our User Gallery, have you? Our homebrewed OS-tans, by now, far outnumber the canon OS-tan.  List any weird Operating System you can think of, and we probably have an OS-tan for it.  ^.^

So no real need to think a new one up, since there's more than enough to choose from.  But the possibility always exists.  

Personally, I'd like to use other FOSA projects to complete OS-tans designs that never got off the sketching phase.  ^^

As to how they'll be drawn FOSA-style,....

First, I guess you plan out who we want and what we ant them to do.

Let's say [as an example] we opt to include ME-tan in the pic, and we want her to be inserting a rollcake into the oven.  We already know what she looks like, so it'll be an easy process to vector sketch her in that kneeling pose (with the rollcake on a tray in her hands) bit by bit, then codify the sketch bit by bit, then add shading and lighting bit by bit.  We probably wouldn't mess with hairstyles much, but we MAY want to change her clothing and that's where the community could gang up to create something original.  And by that I mean a combination of average clothing (say a ktichen apron and slippers), but drenched in a level of detail impossible to achieve for a single person to do within the same timeframe.
(think of folds in every imaginative part of the clothing, or flower patterns on her ribbons, or a feathering effect on her strawberry-patterned socks, etc)

Naturally, that's a more mundane example,... but clearly it would get even more imaginative if we ever had to, for example, design a Mech Suit for Solaris-sama, or a cannon for 2K-tan, or what not.  A design like that with tons of tubes, pipes, LED lights, circuitry, smoke, lasers, etc, is bound to challenge our ability to innovate!

The real draw behind FOSA is in the potential for absolute depth of detail!  *v*

Added after 4 minutes:

Oh, and as for what I plan to work on next....

I'm think of prepping the floor tiles a little -- or at least the lines for them.  May need your help (Kissu-san) later on to correct their angles.

Kiso

QuoteWell yeah, when we get to truly FOSA OS-tans. But... Kissu-san,... you have visited our User Gallery, have you? Our homebrewed OS-tans, by now, far outnumber the canon OS-tan. List any weird Operating System you can think of, and we probably have an OS-tan for it. ^.^

I do have seen the gallery and yes, you have many designs of many stuff I didn't even know of (like the oh so many versions of DOS and Win characters...  even the Mac-tans). But part of the design process is not physical as much as it is mental. Where else can you cover personality traits CC? That's designing too.

As for the Vistan matter... I was going to make my own version of that specific OS as a project, featuring six of them (one of each of Vista's versions [Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Enterprise, Ultimate). But then I saw this and decided to set it aside until I felt like proving myself.

QuoteSo no real need to think a new one up, since there's more than enough to choose from. But the possibility always exists.

Personally, I'd like to use other FOSA projects to complete OS-tans designs that never got off the sketching phase. ^^

As I said before... mutual agreement would be in great need here. maybe add in some polls to let members (and guests I guess) help set a standard FOSA design.

QuoteLet's say [as an example] we opt to include ME-tan in the pic, and we want her to be inserting a rollcake into the oven. We already know what she looks like, so it'll be an easy process to vector sketch her in that kneeling pose (with the rollcake on a tray in her hands) bit by bit, then codify the sketch bit by bit, then add shading and lighting bit by bit. We probably wouldn't mess with hairstyles much, but we MAY want to change her clothing and that's where the community could gang up to create something original. And by that I mean a combination of average clothing (say a ktichen apron and slippers), but drenched in a level of detail impossible to achieve for a single person to do within the same timeframe.
(think of folds in every imaginative part of the clothing, or flower patterns on her ribbons, or a feathering effect on her strawberry-patterned socks, etc)

Naturally, that's a more mundane example,... but clearly it would get even more imaginative if we ever had to, for example, design a Mech Suit for Solaris-sama, or a cannon for 2K-tan, or what not. A design like that with tons of tubes, pipes, LED lights, circuitry, smoke, lasers, etc, is bound to challenge our ability to innovate!

Now THAT was where I was trying to get at! There are a lot of stuff that could be made, but all would have to fall into place with the respective character... cause... not all character are fit to do tasks that others might, as with the various OS softwares. Also, this would be intended to help promote a set standard and maybe allow them to gain acceptance by the rest of the world. the more e do for one, the more support we give that design.

QuoteThe real draw behind FOSA is in the potential for absolute depth of detail! *v*

I guess complexity is also a form of detail. I mean, when I create a character for an RP (Examples: Shin/Kiso, May/Hana)... I make sure that I can provide a level of complexity to the character that makes it unique, not matter how many things the character posseses that is comparable to another. There is always something that one can find to be unique in my characters, and that Is something that I want to help provide for the OS-tans... a level of complexity that allows them all to be unique no matter how much one may resemble (physically or mentally) to the other.
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