OS-tan Collections

OS-tan discussions => OS-tan Fan-Fics, Comics and Fan-Stuff => Topic started by: C-Chan on January 18, 2008, 02:29:04 pm

Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 18, 2008, 02:29:04 pm
I'm reserving this space for now mainly to gather thoughts on the matter -- however, I still want to keep this in the Fanart section because it is my hope that several practice sessions will take place here, before a more serious attempt.

I'd like to start off with "I had a dream today", but it's more of a long-standing vision I've had since the days of this thread here....

http://ostan-collections.net/topic-213.html

Now let me be frank for a second....

I love to draw (well,... more like technically "sculpt") and have been doing it with gusto here in this forum since June of '06.  I think I've personally advanced a lot, and have proven to myself time and time again that I can achieve a desired goal with enough effort.  So even if I may be morally reluctant to admit it, I think I can prove to myself that I'm a good artist.

But personally, I never really cared for that -- rather it has always been my vision to be a good team player instead.  I have tried doing one-on-one collaborations, I had started an Inkscape tutorial, I surrender my SVG source files for people to study, and I generally help and encourage other people to draw.  This has beared fruit, but I still get the impression that a lot of people feel marginalized due to lack of perceived talent or time, or perhaps just an unwillingness to dedicate time to something that bears little in return aside from a "how cute" or "neat" comment.  Truth be told, we have an eager but yet very small group of dedicated artists in the folder, and if any are in the same position as I am, they may start to feel a little burned out.

The problem, I feel, basically lies in that while my vision is community-focused, our approach is still inherently individualistic.  We have user-specific galleries, we expect users to complete whole pictures themselves, and collaborations thus far have depended on private communication amongst users.  Parodoxically, we expect the final product of a user's time and effort to be released into the wild without any user acknowledgement -- which is okay now since we all know each other, but hardly sounds like an enticing offer to a new user who's time and expertise may warrant compensation (even if it's in the form of a small "thank you").

When I think that, I inevitably start thinking about the future.  When I leave, and leave I shall, how many people can take over for me?  And for how long?  When Fabian left the forum he founded, Fedora-Tan was luckily around to keep it living long enough for a mini renaissance.  But can I expect the same posterity for my work?

Maybe, but despite everything, all is do is still strictly "proprietary", so like with any proprietary product, all my methods and secrets would undoubtedly go to the grave along with me.  That might be alright for some people, but I'm more apt to "share the wealth" so to speak.  -v-

So... in an effort to do something about this, I'd like propose a sort of paradign shift, and since this is still the start of a New Year, I figure it'd be a perfect time for it.

....

So in February of this year, I'd like to begin sponsoring a series of tests of what I'm tentatively calling "Free and Open Source Anime".  Modeled heavily after the FOSS approach with regards to software, I'd like for us to try out a new, multi-faceted and fully-transparent approach when it comes to creating illustrations.  Rather than have a single person doing all the drawing, an image would be built up collectively by a huge gathering of people using at the very least a standard tool.  A "compiler" then gathers the best features of submitted "patches" to the illustration, and use it to update the master illustration so that it combines expertise from various different styles and trades.

The benefit I see is that no inherent artistic skills are required.  If a person can't draw complex human shapes, he/she can focus on inorganic details.  If a person is an expert at human anatomy and mechanical systems, but inexperienced with vector graphics, the person can still make recommendations or outlines to other artists that have that skill set.  Jobs are approached voluntarily rather than by a set schedule or hierarchy, and can range from complex tasks such as creating wavy hair, to simpler tasks like making strokes variable-width.  And even if a picture LOOKS complete, the source will always be accessible at all times, so any enterprising user can add even more detail, or "fork" it to a different style or color scheme.

I feel that the end result, after much experimentation with FOSA, will not only be gloriously-detailed pictures that we can collectively and proudly say belong to "OSC", but also a new take on artistry that is more "game-like", and is bound to addict as well as empower artists and non-artists alike.  Each and every day you could have several people (5, 10, 20, etc) chip away at small, specific sections of a drawing, making it neater and more detailed with each "patch", until they're all brought together into one awe-inspiring mosaic of collaborative effort (and humor too).  ^__^

The direct benefit to each user is also evident: you'd get experience working as a team, you'd have a wealth of design techniques and free art examples (such as tones and patterns) to further yourself in your own private artistry, and you could potentially free up more time for yourself to assist in more than one project, or pursue other endeavors.

If it can be done right, I have confidence that 2008 will be a very exciting year for this forum.  If you're all willing to give this vision a shot, I'm equally confident that it will be worth your while.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 18, 2008, 05:24:54 pm
This is a very ambitious plan, but I'll help. I offer to assist with concepts, rough sketching, and storyboarding for any comics (hand-draw), costume design, and shading, as I believe those are my strongest points.

Though, especially with comics, I think the undoing of a lot of plans is complexity...so let us take a page from the Unix folks and keep it simple. I've found quite efficient ways of doing shading, hair highlighting and eyes. While they aren't that great for a portrait or "one-shot", they work quite well for comics IMHO.

QuoteSo even if I may be morally reluctant to admit it, I think I can prove to myself that I'm a good artist.


As if you have yet to prove it?

QuoteWhen I think that, I inevitably start thinking about the future. When I leave, and leave I shall, how many people can take over for me? And for how long?


I sometimes sorta feel the same way...just looking back at my track record of "heavily invested projects that crashed and burned eventually" (which was nearly every one, BTW).
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 19, 2008, 01:42:00 am
QuoteThis is a very ambitious plan, but I'll help. I offer to assist with concepts, rough sketching, and storyboarding for any comics (hand-draw), costume design, and shading, as I believe those are my strongest points.


Thank you, Bella-san.  ^^
Indeed, the idea isn't to permanently assign you to a role of sketch artist, storyboarder and costume designer, but to simply recognize your willingness to contribute to components of the illustration which an make the most of your strongest points.  Moreover, once you draft a costume, it will not be unusual for other people to modify or add atop your original design if it will help achieve our intended goal for the particular project.  Likewise, i think a great time saver for you would be during instances where you need only to clothify or embellish any vector-sketched clothing previously added by another user.  

Everyone will be free to add whatever they like, whenever they want to, into a veritable chimera of a design.  Doesn't necessarily mean all of it will survive into the Final version, but at least it can be stated that all users had an equal hand in its creation.  ^^

QuoteThough, especially with comics, I think the undoing of a lot of plans is complexity...so let us take a page from the Unix folks and keep it simple. I've found quite efficient ways of doing shading, hair highlighting and eyes. While they aren't that great for a portrait or "one-shot", they work quite well for comics IMHO.


Correct, although for testing purposes I would focus on static illustrations first.  [If FOSA does take off, then for sure I think participants will all evolve in their creative venues to the point where they will want to tackle a comic, game, or even a video!]

To solve the inherent problem of overcomplexity for a single user,  I want to propose to guidelines for FOSA participation:

1 - Each user is encouraged to work no more than an hour a day on a given FOSA project.  Naturally we can't stop you from going over in a fit of great inspiratioin, but the rule is here both to protect the user from burn-out, and to maintain a consistent, frenetic pace that is bound to keep development and discussion lively.

2 - Each user is also encouraged to work on specific subcomponents of an illustration.  Different artists could potentially handle separate parts of the body, clothing, and shading.  The reason for this is the same as #1, but I also want to keep "patch' sizes as small as possible, since it makes it easier for new users to follow along in the process.  They can see, at a pace that's slow and measured, how relatively simple components can add up to an incredibly complex image, such as this one here:

(http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/albums/userpics/10274/1141589859993.jpg)

QuoteAs if you have yet to prove it?


Well check the next line,... I've yet to prove THAT part.  `v'

QuoteI sometimes sorta feel the same way...just looking back at my track record of "heavily invested projects that crashed and burned eventually" (which was nearly every one, BTW).


I was also thinking that a good way to start testing is to get a head-start, and simply try to finish AND beautify unfinished projects.  I have a few that I could Open Sauce and donate for FOSA testing, but I'm sure you would too.  Also, if this does take off, a common practice could be for users to propose an idea or vector sketch, which we then all chip-in to bring into fruition (not unlike how you guys did with NetBSD-tan).

In any event, I have to go now for the evening (will be back to reply to other threads later), but I do want to return with a list of potential FOSA "job sets" -- just so everyone can realize just how truly universal participation can be.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 19, 2008, 02:47:10 am
Wow... this is a cardinal/capital/magnanimous/<insert high praise here> idea.

I don't know how good would I be to a project like this. But then again... I think I may find my good point in somewhere in that. But I guess I'll list them out and leave you to be the judge of that yourself.

Kiso's Qualities:
--|Overactive Imagination - I think about a lot of stuff a lot of my time. Usually this means that I will often see series like Naruto and will suddenly twitch my brain into making one or more alternate stories to the event... or even follow out with a whole new story at that. This also works the same for characters and stuff... when I get twitchy, everything can go flippy.

--|Drawing Skills - I don't sider my self the great kind of artist, but at least I know I am (to some degree) a good drawing artist. I mainly go about making drawings (anime/manga style) of original characters, mainly the two top OCs that I use to understand human behavior under different circumstances.

However, my ability can only show for in pixel art which has been only tackled on Photoshop. I only know how to use that program. But now that I found this free SVG program called Inkscape (thank you C-Chan for having the link in your art site) that can help me get by doing art as it meant to be... without loss of quality. If I "got the hang" of Photoshop, I don't think I will have problems in learning how to use a SVG program.

If you want references, here are some:
Kiso/Shin (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/Shin_Fiwaicearth/Kiso-005.jpg) - My mainstream male original character, done in about a hour or so.
Kiso/Shin? (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/Shin_Fiwaicearth/000.jpg) - There he is, adapted for a Naruto RP, obviously transformed into a female version of himself. It was done in some five lazy hours.
(Note: These drawings lack any shading whatsoever, I did these so that people get to see the characters, not for the artistic purpose of it.)

--|Animating - Surprisingly, I know how to animate. I never knew that the same thing you did for banners and avatars could be applied for character animation... well... actually... replace knew with realized. If you want to know how good I am at it, I'll post the image here:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/Shin_Fiwaicearth/REdoANIM-avy001.gif)

If there is any other ability that you may want from people... let me know... no one ever know when people avoid saying something they know about because it wasn't simply required. lol
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 19, 2008, 08:14:45 am
Looks like we're cooking some dish up here, doesn't it? Fufufufu.

Finally, somewhere I can contribute. I've always felt both lack of time and/or skill to do something major on my own - and yet I'm an extreme visionary, tending to have an overly positive outlook when I start, leading to despair when I realize my end result became different from what I wanted to be, or never became at all.
As well as pushing my drawing skills, this might also be a good practice for something I totally suck at;
Collaborations.
Meaningly, I'm overly individualistic. Asking for help, advice or inspiration is a two-meter hurdle with a watery grave on the other side to cross for me. Most likely because I feel that my vision for a project is hard to realize unless I do it all by myself; The best attempts at collaborations I've ever made were those I thought up, designed, supervised and wrote together, assigning only some work to my teammates. Yes, it was really good in the end, and even I was pretty satisfied with the end result, but if I'd ever come close to overworking myself that's got to be it.
This time around it seems that the project itself is as ambitious as I usually make them, and having a hand in that won't be a problem for me, I think.

Anywho, things that I might be good for, listing tiem.
D20 Skill table: Nejin Oniwa[/u]

Storyboarding: 17 ranks
Simply put, I'm quite good at making things up, adapting them to something new or something old, or just screwing things up to make them more interesting.

Pencil work/Sketching: 10 ranks
It's not the best, but given time I can come up with pretty interesting stuff at times. Needs practice, but I'm a fast learner. Really fast.

CG work: 6 ranks
I've had many rounds with the GIMP, and tried out Inkscape a few times. My skills can get much better in the area of coloring b/w works and the like; On the other hand, editing and manipulating existing patterns and images are really easy for me. I've had quite a bit of practice on that (mostly from De-NSFW-ing images in various ways) during my times, and can do most things - i think.

Feat: Fast Learner
If I want to, I will. A regular allocation of reasonable amounts of time - say a few hours over the course of a week - is all it takes.


I hope that I neither over- nor underestimate myself or anyone else. Those mistakes are the one that you regret most, afterwards.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 19, 2008, 12:33:51 pm
Wow! Now things are starting to roll!
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 19, 2008, 01:26:56 pm
It seems to be as you say... things are indeed going the "roll".

However, while I get myself to learn how to work under an SGV environment, I came to think... how much can this be broken down to in terms of separate tasks?

I mean there are a lot of things that can be taken on for dealing with.
Hmm... I wonder how much will it take me to put a breakdown on all the possible mini-tasks for people to deal with. I guess we'll find out when I edit this topic... if I ever do. Or Maybe I would simply post it later on... or whatever. *is just blabbering right now.

I guess we'll have to wait for C-Chan to get around here so we can hear how would things be done specifically.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: SleepyD on January 19, 2008, 02:50:08 pm
this busy college student has other artistic obligations to fulfill, and some of my promises are over a year old. And I still plan on doing those.... someday. I'm prioritizing school and those artistic promises before anything else.

However, this plan does look interesting... I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.  (Well, maybe a pchat can do something similar)  Although, C-Chan seems to have this aversion to the word chat. hehe ^^

I think I'll be watching you guys from the sidelines for now, but I can always provide help and comments, if you like.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 19, 2008, 08:50:09 pm
Yo all,  ^___^
I'm very happy to see interest in this project swelling.  ^^

Understandably, you all have many questions regarding how we plan to carry this out, or how we even hope to delegate our skills accordingly.  Given the user interest, I'm seriously thinking about launching a small pilot project tomorrow -- nothing complex, just a simple inorganic object which we'll attempt to draw in the FOSA manner (and which will hopefully cast a better light at our roles).

It may not be the easiest thing to conceive at this time, since not everyone is acquainted with the development-end of Free and Open Source software.  But if I were to describe the FOSA approach to art, I would think that the best analogy would be that traditional artwork is like a standard FTP/HTTP download, whereas FOSA would function more like a Torrent download.

Sure, a handful of high-speed servers can get files downloaded quickly and efficiently, but they're easy to congest, costly to maintain, and can experience downtime.  In contrast, Torrents save a lot on bandwith, can be incredibly fast and stable if properly seeded, and ensure the longevity of the file being downloaded.  And just like with torrents, the more people participating the better.

Kissu:
- Because we're attenpting an innovative approach, Imagination is actually the prime requirement to participation in the FOSA project.  No doubt I expect a little chaos at first, but if you have the creativity to turn that 'chaos' into an asset, then the sky's the limit.  ^^

- Your drawing style is very good, and I can definitely see how it would transfer well to a lossless format like SVG.  Plus you enjoy drawing original characters, which is a sign of the aforementioned creativity.

- I'll write a little more about Inkscape later, but that will be our primary application for very legitimate reasons.

- That's a cool animation, and the cel-shading very crisp!  ^___^
We won't handle animation yet, but I think you'll be much sought-after when we do.  


Nejin:
- Excellent.  As you might've read in my preamble, my primary reason to launch the FOSA project is because I wanted to encourage as many people as possible to contribute to an illustration.  I think you can also appreciate the torrent example, and the concept of thousands of tiny "chunks" contributing to a HUGE file.  ^__^

- I want to improve collaborative efforts as well, since I do feel I can improve in the area.  The problem with traditional collaborations is that you have two competing styles -- and while compromise is possible, assimilation towards a single style is more likely.  WIth FOSA, you do have a collaborative element still, but it's definitely more "anything goes" and [ironically] returns an awful lot of power back into personal choice and (yes) individualist tendencies.  Even if someone else draws a crown, for example, you can add your own embellishments to it, or propose an alternative crown design altogether -- in the latter case, either your competing design is chosen or not, or a merger can be attempted that would combine the best of both worlds.

- Storyboard and sketch tasks will be very important contributions, since they act as "trailblazers" for other people to operate on.  I think it would also eliminate the stigma of perceived "poor" drawing skills, since it would actually be an asset to help keep a project steamrolling and make Artist's Block irrelevant.  More on this a little later.

- Your experience handling Inkscape is also very valuable, for other indirect tasks (such as compiling, line editing and research) that I'll discuss in more detail later.

- I've always thought that if they made addictive MMORPG's that trained the player in how to speak Japanese, then we'd have a TON of Western Japanese speakers (as opposed to fluent Klingon and Elven speakers).  My hope is that, once you immerse yourself in the project, your learning experience with vector graphics artwork will benefit exponentially.  Maybe in a yeat's time from now, you'll be a lean, mean artist machine!  ^_____^


Bella
- You were right.  ^.^


Kissu [continued]
- Yes, this I'll go over in a minute.  


SleepyD
- Since you started that 4koma project, I wonder if we could consider this a "Part 2"?  ^.^
I feel that now we have the number of people, the mindset, and the technology to make this succeed.  ^v^

- ...if anything, because FOSA (like FOSS) caters specifically to people who have jobs and schools to take care of, but who's one or two hour contribution would inevitably help in the completion of some "kickass" artwork.  ^___^

- And yes, "help and comments" are now formalized FOSA contributions.  I'll discuss that in a bit, but bottom line is that there's something for everyone!  ^v^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 20, 2008, 12:18:58 am
If only you knew....


For come reason, I started to mess with my class scheduling and... now I take only two days of classes at college every week. I got a lot of free time, but still won't mean that I can't forget about homework or anything of the sort.

Anyways, I appreciate the support... that serves as motivation. And even though I am rather one to have lost my whimsical inspiration... I find it rather easy to do stuff under the environment I work right now.

Work... as in... experimenting.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 20, 2008, 12:30:24 am
No problemo.  ^^
I know I've been through that before a long time ago,... only really had an ample schedule like yours as a senior, but used most of it up working (to pay off my debts early) and self-training in computers (which paid off more than my degree).  ^____^

In any event, time to unleash the details of my so-called grand plan:



====================
PROPOSED FOSA GUIDELINES
====================


Below I'm drafting several guidelines that will assist us with the Free and Open Source Anime experiment.  A lot of it, plus the labels used, borrow heavily from Free and Open Source Software ("FOSS").

1) Unlike traditional artwork, the process of creating a FOSA illustration must be COMPLETELY open and transparent.  Every "Patch" art created must be posted immediately, regardless of the completeness of the it vs its promised state.  And every single person will have unhindered access to the "Source" art.  Communication, not secrecy, is what will strengthen FOSA.

2) In order to keep artwork open and modifiable, the vector graphics editor Inkscape is hereby proposed as the standard application to use, and can be downloaded here:

http://inkscape.org/

Inkscape is the ideal solution for the FOSA project vs. other free and proprietary solutions, due to the following:



3) It is encouraged that all participants spend no more than 1 hour per day in their contributions to a project.  While there is no way to enforce this, this guideline is intended to:



4) After this hourly-work, the SVG file with the daily contribution will be posted to the project thread as "Patch" art, which will be considered for inclusion in the main "Source" art.  A PNG picture sample of the contribution is ideal, but a description of the changes done is more than helpful.

There is no official turn-taking, so after "Patch" art is posted, it's encouraged that participants announce what they expect to try their hand on next.  While this is not a binding agreement, it will minimize the incidence of double-work.

5) All participants are encouraged to approach a FOSA illustration with a "swarm" mentality, and do away with traditional hierarchies and responsibilities.  There is no task assignment or delegation, only volunteer work and recommendation.  Likewise, every participant is owner and project leader of the entire illustration, so a masterful end product will reflect well for the entire Forum rather than just a particular participant.

6) Likewise, the concept of a dedicated "storyboardist", "line artist", or "shader" is rendered obsolete in FOSA.  While participants with qualified skill sets are welcomed to work on roles that make use of their talents, they are free to challenge themselves by contributing in areas that are new to them.

Therefore, a FOSA illustration team is comprised instead of job descriptors that serve to encourage new users rather than delineate team players.  Currently the following job descriptors are proposed for FOSA illustration projects:

Owners:  The descriptor is very misleading, as this only refers to the initiator of the project.  While FOSA projects can be open-ended, many will undoubtedly be jobs requested by people seeking community support for a drawing concept.  Owners, therefore, must guide the project to its end-goal, providing basic descriptions, character profiles, and reference pictures.  They are also pivotal in making decisions or seeking compromise whenever design conflicts occur.

An Owner is the closest thing in FOSA to a dedicated role, but like all descriptors is not set in stone.  Another participant later down the line may wish to shift the project to a more dynamic course, and effectively change its "ownership".  

Trailblazers:  The veritable 'frontline warriors" of a FOSA project, Trailblazers are effectively concept artists who excel at producing quick deployment vector sketches that serve as a foundation for Codifier work.  This is not necessarily a preliminary task, as trailblazers can still propose concept "embellishments" over codified designs (such as extra frills and ribbons on a dress).  Geared for speed, trailblazers value quantity over quality, and thus can pack in substantial contribution per the allotted timeframe.  This helps keep the pace of development moving fast, and facilitates work for the next person.  Trailblazers also serve as a strong defense again "Artist's Block", because they are armed with the knowledge of the illustration's evolutionary model, and thus do not fear posting rough work.

Codifiers:  The bread-and-butter of a FOSA project.  Codifiers either begin illustrating semi-permanent shapes, or they convert concept art as such.  Due to the nature of vector graphics, Codifiers take up the dual role of "inking" and "coloring" the details of an illustration.  As such, the tasks require more concentration and patience, and thus are relatively scarce in each Patch release vs Trailblazer material.  Nevertheless, with every bit of codification work that takes place, the illustration draws closer and closer to its finalized appearance.

Polishers  These are to Codifiers, what Codifiers are to Trailblazers.  Polishers dedicate themselves to fixing any design flaws, anatomical defects, impossible poses, or any other adjustable feature that detract from the overall polish of the illustration.  As they also monitor the work of Shaders, Illuminators, and just about anyone who has a direct hand in the illustration (including other Polishers!), they are akin to "quality controllers".

Refiners  Given that variable-width strokes are currently not inherently possible in Inkscape, Refiners are responsible for transferring this commonly-employed raster-based technique into the vector graphics work.  There primary duties are to manage the widths of the Strokes throughtout the illustration, as well as to artificially thin and taper wherever the illusion of depth can be maximized.  A Refiner can also attempt colorizing strokes as well if it adds to the overall impact of an illustration.  The work of a Refiner is deceptively challenging, but the actual refinements themselves are fairly easy to execute.

Shaders:  Shading can essentially make or break a good illustration -- therefore, the task of Shaders is crucial to the visual impact of the project.  Shaders can choose to hard shade or soft shade based on the needs of the project -- or they can leave behind a quick "concept map" to work on later (or assist other fellow shaders with perhaps more time and patience at their disposal).

Luminators:  Like with Shaders, Luminators take it upon themselves to manage the lighting effects of an image, they have to be able not only to gloss hair, plastic or metal surfaces properly, but also determine the intensity and the color of the light on various surfaces (especially skin).  Luminiscent effects, such as sun beams or spotlights, will also be up their alley.  Given the complimentary relationship with Shaders, it will not be uncommon for a participant to handle both lighting and shading simultaneously.

Enhancers  This is a role somewhat similar to a Polisher, as they usually take over after work on a component is complete.  Enhancers dedicate themselves to enriching the detail of an illustration,  They pride themselves in adding innumerable finishing touches, such as rust on an old metal railing, feathered strands of hair, glistening gems on an elegant ring, extra folds on a dress, or various flora fauna in a background.  Given the minuteness of the detail, a person with limited vector graphics skill can still "beautify" an image by adding well-placed assorted shapes and patterns in the right locations.  They are kings and queens in this veritable microcosm of rich possibilities.  

Compilers  This is the first job descriptors that doesn't require direct drawing skills; nevertheless, the job of a Compiler is one of the most important and critical to the maintenance of a FOSA illustration.  To put it simplistically, a Compiler is responsible for collecting all outstanding Patches and integrating them into the Source art.  If the Compiler performs this regularly, the job is easy -- otherwise, it can be daunting.  Furthermore, the Compiler must be versed in Inkscape enough to know all the proper transfer methods (such as Paste in Place, the Color Picker Tool, Layer raising/dropping, etc._).  And as if that were not enough, a Compiler also has to make design decisions on the fly in case a merger compromise between conflicting designs is requred.  Without compilers, the resulting bottleneck of Patches would quickly swamp and strangle the interest out of a FOSA project.

Testers  Testers may not be artists at all (or at least not versed in vector graphics), but are simply commentators posting in the same thread who may have valuable knowledge about anatomy, mechanical design, lighting, etc., which they offer to help improve specific design elements.  Like with FOSS programs, people who "test" a product help point out its flaws that can convert a great product into a perfect one.  The word of a good Tester should always be taken with great consideration.

Convertors  Given that most people are still more comfortable hand-drawing or raster-drawing their creations, Convertors are always at the community's disposal to convert any valuable raster-based contributions into vector-based equivalents.  Only select raster-based graphics should be considered as permaenent components of a FOSA illustration (e.g., scenic backgrounds).  But given that this creates "dependencies" (additional files that must accompany the SVG file at all times), the work of convertors to integrate these creations into the SVG itself would be extremely helpful.

Researchers  Innovation is key to the survival of FOSA, and without seeking new and exciting ways to approach an illustration, the risk of wear and stagnation increases.  The task of a Researcher, therefore, is to experiment with many of the unexplored tools that Inkscape has to offer, and experiment with ways in which a new approach can compliment the illustration (or improve production time).  Researchers are at the forefront of technology as well, and will often seek out nightly builds of the latest Inkscape versions to determine what new and exciting technologies will assist the community in the future (e.g., built-in Animation).  A good Researcher should also associate with the Inkscape community as well, and report any bugs that he/she might uncover (or, if he/she is able, submit actual patches to fix problems on the software end).

Writers:  People who may lack confidence in drawing, but are masters with the written word, can rest assured that their contributions are of incredible importance as well.  Japanese Anime is successful not as much for its gorgeous artwork, but rather for the richness of its characters and the depth of its stories.  Writers, therefore, must do everything in their power to enhance the story of the scene, and the backstory of the characters depicted, so that participants can have a better frame of reference wth which to work with (or apply easter eggs to).  Writers are also encouraged to submit their masterpieces to the OS-tan Wiki, to canonize the details of our OSC creations.

Prospectors  Despite the extent of our combined skills, it would be impossible for us to know how to draw EVERYTHING in existence, such as the luminescence of a copper tool, the proper refraction of a glass filled with coconut juice, or the kind of shading that eyelids cast over the eyes and cheeks.  Prospectors, therefore, scour the internet, books, Anime media, etc, for reference material that can be used to enhance an illustration.  If a crown is being drawn, for example, seeeking out pictures of various gem stones, or of royal icons such as griffins and dragons, can do much to assist all participants in their pursuit of a polished and professional product.

Archivers  Most of us might be so busy involved in the creation process, we forget to record how we do things -- then when the time comes when a particular design feature is reused, we might start from scratch and literally "reinvent the wheel".  An Archiver, therefore, attempts to document key techniques, or tries to maintain a collection of Pattern Fills, stock accessories, or facial expressions.  This will not only help refresh the memory of veteran participants, but it will also serve as educational material for new ones.

Licensors  This role may not be required given the popularity (or lack thereof) of FOSA.  But if it ever comes down to it, Licensors will need to seek out a proper Creative Commons license for our creations.  Despite being inherently benign, FOSS programs are still subject to plagiarism and abuse by greedy individuals/corporations, and thus require the protection of a GNU General Public License [or compatible license].  This is done to protect the freedom of the user to use and distribute it as he/she so pleases.  Likewise, we would want to protect everyones right to work on a FOSA illustration with the full confidence that it will remain free and open forever.
[/list]

It's absolutely important to understand that these labels are references only.  Participants are discouraged from feeling compelled to abide by one of these standards.  They are free to volunteer as a Compiler perpetually, as long as they let others know continously.  However, they must never dedicate themselves to be just that, or else it limits the flexibility of the FOSA project.  

Furthermore, it will not be uncommon for participants to perform 2 or 5  or more of the tasks described above in one sitting -- a person versed in drawing eyes, for example, could sketch, draw, shade and illuminate the entire component if he/she is sufficiently inspired to do so within the allotted timeframe.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 20, 2008, 07:02:25 am
Wow... this beats the way I was picturing things would be going about.

Anyways... some (if not many or most) of these I can fit in. My testing of stuff has gone rather well; it is actually much faster to vector stuff than to raster them... and even less tedious. I hope that I can learn things with speed to help up.

---------------

As for your "Job Classes" (now that's a better name for it), the one I would like to discuss first is that of Licensing. How do we license something as how you call it out to be? do we have to go to http://www.gnu.org/ and find it out? Or something?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 20, 2008, 04:37:57 pm
As usual, C-Chan delivers. -w-
And just something I thought of - more than like a FOSS project, this seems intriguingly alike to the work of a Doujin circle, plus open-sourceness. C74, here we come! -w-;
(...not...)
Anyway, until I get a better CGI dictionary I'll stay confident that I can handle the tasks of Owning, Trailblazing, Refining and Writing, for the moment. Since next week is very very lax for me (3 days of school, mon/friday free times, yay!) I'll hopefully be able to practice on the stuff out of your Inkscape Tutorial, as well. Somehow the start of this year has been a new start on many things for me, and they've all gone quite well - so even my own 13:th fortune might be good this year.
Yoroshiku, sempai! ^v^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 20, 2008, 06:10:40 pm
QuoteAnyways... some (if not many or most) of these I can fit in. My testing of stuff has gone rather well; it is actually much faster to vector stuff than to raster them... and even less tedious. I hope that I can learn things with speed to help up.


No real need to speed up,... by all means, please take your time, especially when learning something new.  As you say, vector graphics in Inkscape are already faster and less tedious than you might have realized, so the way I see it you're already saving time.  ^__^

As you practice more, though, you'll be either faster or more intricate.

QuoteAs for your "Job Classes" (now that's a better name for it), the one I would like to discuss first is that of Licensing. How do we license something as how you call it out to be? do we have to go to http://www.gnu.org/ and find it out? Or something?


I had thought of "classes" before, but that still sounded too limiting.  I want users to feel like they're part of something new and enticing, which is also why I used a reinvented a lot of strange and optimistic-sounding names for common tasks.  The proper discourse goes a long way too.  ^___^

I also proposed the Licensor label because, truth be told, I don't have the head for that legalistic mumbo-jumbo, and wouldn't know where to start.  Hopefully, someone more versed in the literature (especially concerning Copylefted material) can chime in.

Fortunately, at least for the pilot runs, this isn't much of a pressing issue yet.

QuoteAs usual, C-Chan delivers. -w-
And just something I thought of - more than like a FOSS project, this seems intriguingly alike to the work of a Doujin circle, plus open-sourceness. C74, here we come! -w-;
(...not...)
Anyway, until I get a better CGI dictionary I'll stay confident that I can handle the tasks of Owning, Trailblazing, Refining and Writing, for the moment. Since next week is very very lax for me (3 days of school, mon/friday free times, yay!) I'll hopefully be able to practice on the stuff out of your Inkscape Tutorial, as well. Somehow the start of this year has been a new start on many things for me, and they've all gone quite well - so even my own 13:th fortune might be good this year.
Yoroshiku, sempai! ^v^


You can imagine how happy I am to have you on board, Nejin-san.  ^___^

You're a frequent visitor to the forum, and I know from your forum gaming that you have enthusiasm to spare.  So yes, I'm getting more confident than ever that this experiment will succeed.  ^^

Now then,... regarding the Pilot Run.....

I was thinking of a particular object to start with, such as a ring, castle, radio, tree or a living room....

In the end, I figure I'd ask your opinions to see where to start.  Maybe y'all might one to start with something immediately OS-tan relevant first?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 20, 2008, 06:43:07 pm
Hmm... I think I found the License thing that would apply to this here project [you/I/we/everyone/whatever] is collaborating on. I was led from (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html) to (http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/), the latter being the one that supports a free license on artistic material. I have only read through it and by far it think it's fitting... but I would be needing to dig deeper to understand some things. But I'll just leave it there until need calls for it.

As for ideas... I got nothing right now. We should try something that would be use in the FOSA... maybe a... house, room, [front/back]yard, kitchen, or something?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 20, 2008, 06:46:38 pm
QuoteYou can imagine how happy I am to have you on board, Nejin-san. ^___^

You're a frequent visitor to the forum, and I know from your forum gaming that you have enthusiasm to spare. So yes, I'm getting more confident than ever that this experiment will succeed. ^^

Now then,... regarding the Pilot Run.....

I was thinking of a particular object to start with, such as a ring, castle, radio, tree or a living room....

In the end, I figure I'd ask your opinions to see where to start. Maybe y'all might one to start with something immediately OS-tan relevant first?

Hey, I'm like OSC's own Konata: Overly long hair, obsessive otaku, gaming freak, martial arts training, abusive of the -w- and of course eternally sleep-deprived. Just hope that you can count on me more than her >w<
^
(Nejin's elaborate way to avoid expressing embarrassment.)

Regarding the Pilot: How about we do as the old scientists did, sketch/raster a few objects and throw them into vectoring Blenderspace? Just to test our own adaptability. Something random to start us off, and we can always shove something interesting into it all!
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 20, 2008, 07:14:33 pm
I've read everything, but I'm still a bit confused--Is this project going to be done like a "round robin", where one person vector sketches, the next shades, the next adds detail, etc? Or are we going to agree on a vector sketch and then each do our own job simultaneously? Because the former seems like it could be easier...

At any rate, I think I'd feel most comfortable as an:
-owner (I'm choc full of ideas)
-codifier (I can vector sketch well)
-shader (I'm uber-efficient :P)
-writer (I'm good at research, full of ideas, and think I'm fairly good at presenting them)
-converter (is this like the person who vector sketches over a hand sketch? Cause I have a lot of experience at this)

I may be able to do
-enhancer (especially with clothes and facial features)
-luminator (mostly for eyes, faces and hair...but I'm not too great at backgrounds and such)
-trailblazer (though I'm not so sure, I think I'd be better as a codifier)

QuoteI was thinking of a particular object to start with, such as a ring, castle, radio, tree or a living room....

In the end, I figure I'd ask your opinions to see where to start. Maybe y'all might one to start with something immediately OS-tan relevant first?


I sorta think we should just go ahead and draw a -tan. Either we can choose a real iconic OS-tan like ME or XP-tan, or perhaps take the more adventurous route and design a little known Distro-tan or something like that. Nothing spectacular or too complicated, just a simple flat-shaded portrait or whatever.

And as for possible licenses, look no farther than:

http://creativecommons.org/license/

Added after 2 minutes:

Oh yes, and this is likely a while off, but how will we present our artwork? Will one of us start an OSC account as "FOSA Project" and post our art in the gallery? If we decide on a plan like this, I'd be willing to volunteer ;)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 20, 2008, 07:44:44 pm
Quote
I've read everything, but I'm still a bit confused--Is this project going to be done like a "round robin", where one person vector sketches, the next shades, the next adds detail, etc? Or are we going to agree on a vector sketch and then each do our own job simultaneously? Because the former seems like it could be easier...


Yo Bella-san.  ^^
I risk sounding more cryptic, but in reality it'd be more like a combination of the two circumstances you propose.

There is no turn-taking in the traditional sense, if anything because this is what we tried and failed to set up in the 4Koma project over a year ago.  It can work as far as a professional animation studio is concerned, but the problem with adapting that approach to volunteer work is that you HAVE to have people specialized in what they do (dedicated artists, shaders, etc) and you HAVE to depend that they'll all maintain their schedules.  

You could be all psyched up doing the sketchwork in less than a day, but then when you boot it to me for inking and coloring I might just decide to take a whole month with it.  That slows and eventually stalls down the process.

The second scenario is more appropriate to FOSA, as long as we view it from the right perspective.  We don't have jobs or obligations,... while some people will undoubtedly take their work far more seriously than others, participation is meant to be fundamentally fun and voluntary,... and most importantly, unintrusive.  Plus our agreement on the state of teh vector sketch is purely evolutionary.  People who want to change it CAN change it at any time they want through patches,.. although whether all or some of these changes will make it to the source is up to the community at large.

QuoteAt any rate, I think I'd feel most comfortable as an:
-owner (I'm choc full of ideas)
-codifier (I can vector sketch well)
-shader (I'm uber-efficient :P)
-writer (I'm good at research, full of ideas, and think I'm fairly good at presenting them)
-converter (is this like the person who vector sketches over a hand sketch? Cause I have a lot of experience at this)

I may be able to do
-enhancer (especially with clothes and facial features)
-luminator (mostly for eyes, faces and hair...but I'm not too great at backgrounds and such)
-trailblazer (though I'm not so sure, I think I'd be better as a codifier)


I kinda figured these roles would fit you like a glove.  ^___^

QuoteOh yes, and this is likely a while off, but how will we present our artwork? Will one of us start an OSC account as "FOSA Project" and post our art in the gallery? If we decide on a plan like this, I'd be willing to volunteer


Good question.  For the pilot run, we're going to keep the artwork here for now.  After all, the reason I want to start in February is because Inkscape 0.46 should be out by then (and should solve all the memory issues that would otherwise plague low-end hardware users, as well as introduce useful new tools).

But if our Pilot Run is successful, I'll talk to Tsubashi and Fedora-Tan about not only opening up our own Forum Subsection for FOSA, but also our own gallery section as well, which is neither part of the User Gallery nor the Main Gallery.

Ambitious, no?  ^^

Btw, thanks to you and Kissu for looking deeper into the CC license.  While the compiled Source art will be plain by itself, the Source file itself will have embedded a copy of the license used, as well as a list of people who've contributed to the illustration.  Just like with FOSS programs.  ^___^

==========================


In any event, returning to the issue of the Pilot Run....

Since Kissu-san mentioned kitchen, and Nejin-san mentioned "blender"-something, how about we start with a kitchen setting?  That way the opportunity presents itself to add in all sorts of wacky appliances, food, etc.

And....

In the spirit of compromise that will be commonplace in FOSA.....

Let's plan to have some of the OS-tans use the kitchen as well?  Maybe a mixture of iconic and homebrewed OS-tans?

Stand by....

Added after 1 minutes:

Here's me playing my first role as Prospector.... ^.^

(http://www.hamptondesign.com/images/resize_folio/kitchen_5.jpg)

Added after 1 minutes:

(http://www.azcentral.com/advert/athomeweek06/images/ahw-13kitchen1.jpg)

(http://www.trendir.com/archives/berkeley-mills-sereno-kitchen2.jpg)

Added after 2 minutes:

(http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0411/matera/housecave_kitchen_in_matera.jpg)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 20, 2008, 07:55:47 pm
Lookin' good! I'll be on it as soon as I wake up tomorrow - 2 am is a bit late to start things for me. -w-;
Also, that last one, err... ^-^;
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 20, 2008, 09:46:44 pm
What?  I didn't specify the KIND of kitchen, now did I?  ^_________^

But now, I just posted up examples to see the range of variety that we can incorporate into our FOSA kitchen.  And given the wealth of inorganic trinkets that can be strewn throughout the picture, artists of all skill levels well literally have more than enough to work with.  ^.^

Now then,.... stand by for a preliminary Source Art file....

Added after 57 minutes:

Here's my hour's worth of preplanning.  Pure Trailblazer work here, given the basic layout of a proposed kitchen design, color-coded for convenience....

Red:  Cabinets/counters
Purple:  Referigerator
Green:  Table counter
Yellow:  Oven/Stove top
Blue:  Sink
White:  Walls/Floors
Brown:  Window Frames
Transparent Areas:  Outside views (appear in the PNG as dark gray)

It's an eye sore now, but this is just to get the ball rolling on the Pilot Run.  Coupled with the previous pictures and your own rampant imaginations, the OS-tan kitchen will slowly evolve into pure winnage!  ^___^

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Aurora Borealis on January 20, 2008, 09:50:16 pm
This FOSA thing sounds like a great idea! A way to work on ambitious picture ideas minus the artist's block! (which I unfortuneatly suffer from too often)

Anyways...

I'm a fast learner, I have 8 years of real experience (I say 'real' because I have used drawing programs more than 8 years ago but that was just me scribbling so I don't count it) with computer graphics, with Photoshop which I have been using since 2000 and Inkscape which I now have 10 months of experience with. I can also do some writing and I have a wild imagination.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 20, 2008, 09:56:20 pm
Ahhh!  Aurora-hime, I was wondering where you were!  ^.^
Sorry, no Panel 4 yet, but inspiration on this thing struck me like lightning and wanted to get it off the ground.  ^___^'

Fortunately, FOSA isn't something that will take away too much time away from my daily drawing, so you can be sure I won't forget to complete Panel 4.  ^.^

In any event, looks like you've read through the guidlines...

http://ostan-collections.net/post-43393.html#43393

So feel free to jump right ahead with the Source Art.... ^v^

http://ostan-collections.net/post-43411.html#43411

Don't forget,... you can't spend more than one hour on your contribution!  ^.^

Speaking of which, regarding my next contribution....

I want to fix the walls and ceilings, since they're not entirely symmetrical.  I might also add some preliminary lighting to the walls, floors and ceilings.  It's meant to be a kitchen with a lot of natural lighting.  ^___^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 21, 2008, 07:01:45 am
I call dibs on symmetrical patching... also call dibs on setting angle fixes!

I notes some things go against horizon and vanishing point.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 09:04:41 am
Phenomenal work, Kissu-san.  ^___^
You see, you saved a load off my shoulders.  Plus that was a very smart to thing to fix now rather than later when all the extra stuff would make angle correction a bit of a hassle.  

Now I can focus on primitive lighting, in addition to some background scaping.

Plus I just thought of an idea for our first prop/easter egg -- an OSC-inspired breakfast cereal in fact.  I'll sketch it before I forget the details.  -v-
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 21, 2008, 09:42:22 am
Hell...SVG downloading is a pain in the @ss.
What I had to do was:

Open page
Save page (as xml)
Edit xml: remove first line, the one that looks like this: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
Manually change file extension to .svg
Open in Inkscape


Bloody GUH. Pain. -_-

Anywayssu. For some reason I downloaded the first SVG, so I had to download Kissu's version and implement my stuff onto it. Good thing Inkscape is what it is - this is the first time I've seen how easy it is to work with like that. Hoo-raah!
So anyways, here's my humble patch to the works. Had a little to do so I just added in detail on the stove. Anyway, good work Kissu-san and Sempai, and hope to catch up on everyone else!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 09:53:51 am
Excellent work, Nejin-san!  See? Told you Inkscape was easy.  ^v^
And plus I'm glad you guys are keeping within the time limit -- that's helping the project move along at the pace I'd like it to be.

Course, if you guys are getting the inspirational "itch" to add more detail, feel free to insert another hour-session later in the day.  

Oh and given that you combined your changes with Kissu-san's latest version, that would make you our first Compiler, so congrats Nejin-san!!  Otherwise, it's okay to make your patch prior to the changes, and simply have someone else combine it -- may have no choice but to do that, in case the day comes where we have lots of people pitching in.  ^___^

As far as downloading an SVG file, I only had to remove the .xml file extension from the "fosakitchen_patch2.svg.xml" name.  Didn't think we needed extra steps.  '__';
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 21, 2008, 10:18:04 am
I don't need extra steps. If anyone has Firefox, just:

--|Click to View SVG file.

--|Right click and select "Save Page As" and it will automatically set the file extension as ".svg".

--|From there all you need to do is look for a place where you want to save the file in and done we are with download.

- - - - - - - - - -

I are going to get myself into making something myself... but still I haven't decided on what so... maybe get the cabinets done. Yes... I am going take on another thing today, still don't feel strained... much less drained. All's too damn easy when you do it in groups... I mean, things like these.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 21, 2008, 11:50:11 am
Odd. My fox couldn't save it as anything else than an XML, and it didn't work to just change the extension. Oh well - each to his own, i guess.

Now, I'm off for some Capoeira, so I'll be done for the night here.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 02:11:51 pm
FYI, I'm on Firefox version 2.0.0.11, Windows version (yep, I'm at work right now).

And Capoeira?  O__o
Oh well, guess I'll find out in YOUR morning.  ^^'

QuoteI are going to get myself into making something myself... but still I haven't decided on what so... maybe get the cabinets done. Yes... I am going take on another thing today, still don't feel strained... much less drained. All's too damn easy when you do it in groups... I mean, things like these.


Pretty easy going now, huh?  ^__^

Well it is a Pilot Run, after all, and a poorly-advertised one at that.  I'm guessing the greatest challenge will be when you start having 10 or 20 other people to cooperate with.  ^^

Even so, it definitely gives you time to sit back and think of something unconventional....

I haven't drawn architectural designs in a LONG time, so in a way this is new for me too.  ^___^

I'm leaning more towards an IKEA look myself, but as I still have to review some reference material, that's why I want to distract myself drawing props I'm already inspired for.

Such as that box o' cereal I have in mind.  ^v^

Added after 2 hours 8 minutes:

Okay, got what I said I'd do done.  ^__^

List of changes:

- Added primitive shading to walls, ceilings and floor.
- Separated Floor into it's own layer, only because I want the floor to have many special effects later on (e.g., tiles, reflections, etc)
- Added "Outside" layer if we feel we want to embellish the outdoors a little.
- Added sky w/clouds -- a bit irrelevant given we want see them in the actual pic, but figured they'd be great as a frame of reference.

No blurring was applied now to save on processor space (plenty of time for that later), but did make use of Pattern Fills.  

Later on I'll do my cereal box.  ^.^

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 21, 2008, 05:40:44 pm
Using Fox 2.0.0.11 Win EN/US myself as well - and even tried it with Fox 3-b2, with no other result. But it seems like i was just making things complicated - just tried to save it all as a .svg, and it worked out instantly. Stupid me ^-^;

Anyway, excellent work with the Outdoors layer, CC - even if Firefox's preview doesn't show much of it. Tomorrow I'll see what I can do, depending on what's needed - I don't think I'll be shading much though, since I don't trust in my abilities there at all.

Also, somewhat scary to see that all the posts the last like what, 6 hours or so, have been in this thread. Stealing away everyone from the other stuff, now are we ^-^;

Anyway, goodnight! And FYI, Capoeira is quite enjoyable, even after just 3 training sessions. :P
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 21, 2008, 07:52:12 pm
Actually N-O... uhm... technical issues are also part of a group project. As with  a pack of wolves or a group of lions; if one member is not fully functional, the group's productivity will be reduced.

Everyone has to be well and capable to do things fast, easy, and without trouble... productivity needs to be kept sane.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 08:18:08 pm
Here here, Kissu-san!  ^v^

Funny how in the last 24 hours or so, we're the only ones still jumping on the Pilot Run.  ^^

No real rush,... maybe more people will hop on board once the image gets fleshed out a little more (which it has in the past 24 hours, coincidentally).  ^.^

In the words of your average torrent commentator....

"SEED MOAR!!!!!!!!"  ^V^

j/k, j/k....! ^v^

*reads up on Capoeira*

Aa sou!  yeah, that does look like fun!  Exercise, dance and martial arts all rolled into one!  Talk about value....  ^___^

In any event, glad you like the outside scene.  Sorry if I haven't finished my section on pattern fills yet in my tutorial, but when you do see how they work, you'll realize that the clouds are composed of only about 13-15 shapes only (and the plant about 5-6 shapes).  One shape with a pattern fill looks drab and artificial -- but gang them up into different sizes, angles and transparncies, and they start looking a lot more organic.  ^.^

Lots of little bits, contributing to one grand design,... sound familiar?  ^___^

Actually, it's the first time I try doing clouds using pattern fills,... but I imagine that with some blurring, they'll look about the same as my other method (using randomized stars).

In any event,... stand by for the FOSA kitchen's first ever EASTER EGG!!!  ^v^

*starts timer and draws*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 21, 2008, 08:28:13 pm
I have a bit of spare time on hand...any ideas for what I can do with this pic to help out? Cause I've very little experience with interior drawing ^///^

Maybe I'll do more detail on the fixtures. I could perhaps change the colors (cause right now it's burning my retinas), or are we saving this for after?

And how will I post this picture?

QuoteAnyway, goodnight! And FYI, Capoeira is quite enjoyable, even after just 3 training sessions. :P


Capoeira sounds like a fitting sport for a Ninja/Pirate ;)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 08:35:13 pm
*pauses work for a second*

Yo Bella-san.  ^__^
I'll be doing an Easter Egg now, Kissu-san will be doing some cabinets, and Nejin-san's pretty much open-ended.

So that leaves you an entire kitchen to romp with.  ^.^

Perhaps to get rid of those eyesore colors, you can start work on a real fridge.  Feel free to turn it into the fridge of your dreams,... but don't forget, spend no more than an hour on this in one sitting!  `v'

(maximum, two sittings a day,... yeah, figured I'd lighten the rules a little in light of strong user interest)  ^.^

But ultimately, the point of this project is that you can contribute anywhere and in anyway your heart desires.   ^___^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 21, 2008, 09:41:47 pm
Woohoo! I's gonna make me a stainless steel 'fridge!

Maybe a shiny granite countertop, too...

*feels like interior designer*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 09:54:06 pm
Okay, easter egg done!  ^___^

A lot of OSC humor embedded here,... sorry Kissu-san, you're too new to get most of the references, but maybe in time.  ^v^
Wanted to add more precision to the face, but ran out of time (and besides, for whatever reason, I couldn't access Thurosis-san's pictures in the gallery).  
The marshmallow shapes are taken from an older picture I worked on.  The Quacker logo is a small homage to Aurora-hime.  ^__^

Hope it's not taken the wrong way, but its purely a parody that I hope to see more of.  Just to make things fair, I demand I cameo in the picture to as a pork item of some sort.  ^___~

Oh btw, if you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, it's cause the box is off-screen.  Figure I can't put it out without any cabinets (hint hint).  ^__________^;

QuoteWoohoo! I's gonna make me a stainless steel 'fridge!

Maybe a shiny granite countertop, too...

*feels like interior designer*


There ya go, Bella-sama!  That's more like it!  ^v^

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Aurora Borealis on January 21, 2008, 10:02:21 pm
WAAAAH! I can't see any of the new changes, nor can I download the svgs ;__;

Darn. I wanted to contribute and see those new changes.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 10:04:43 pm
What does it say when you click on the download button?  ^___^
(you're using Safari, no?)

Does right-clicking allow you to Save the Link location or something?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Aurora Borealis on January 21, 2008, 10:11:09 pm
I've tried downloading it using SeaMonkey but it only showed the original picture and didn't download and when I tried in Safari, it just displayed some cryptic message :(

Directly downloading as an svg doesn't work for me.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 10:13:34 pm
Wah?  @___@

....

Well okay,... how about when you Save Page As, or something.  Does it try saving it to an ".svg.xml" file or something?  If so, just remove the ".xml" part.

Added after 1 minutes:

Speaking of Gallery problems, Bella-sama's latest masterpieces are suffering from the same message as Thurosis' image:

There was an error while processing a database query

Tsubashi-dono, any clues?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Aurora Borealis on January 21, 2008, 10:27:28 pm
Now I got a successful download! Great job on the cereal box! ;010

Any ideas which characters will be in it? (Although I do have some ideas)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 21, 2008, 10:33:52 pm
I take it you like the "Quacker" logo, no?  ^______________^

So far I'm leaving character selection open-ended,... perhaps waiting till there's a lot less "pastel" colors in the kitchen before seriously considering who should be featured.  My guess is a medley of characters, canon ones, OSC ones, ++ ones, virus-tans, and so forth.  But that's a long term goal, though,... just having two bake a cake or something should suffice.  ^.^

But you could make the case that there are now THREE OS-tan cameos in the picture already.  ^v^;

Added after 2 minutes:

Bear in mind that, just like with the cereal box, a lot of characters can make small cameo appearances on other food items (such as Aunt ME-tan's Rollcake Mix, or Solaris-sama's Vodka-Laced Egg Nog, and so forth).  ^_____^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Aurora Borealis on January 21, 2008, 11:30:10 pm
My first contributions!: Added in a package of sausages with C-Chan on the label, added in a few cabinets and added on to the refridgerator a little bit

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Gussy Keniji on January 21, 2008, 11:46:44 pm
Hm this seems like a good move here, mind If I attempt to jump on the bandwagon

Anywho here's what I have to offer

Gussy Keniji
lvl 19 Viru-King

Design- 27
-I excel in this category, plain n' simple, I've been told in the past that I have a nack for unique character design, and I've simply capatilized on this strength.

Reaserch- 20
-I'm naturally curious, so, when I;m not drawing, I spend most of my free time looking things up on the good ol' Wiki or informative sites.

CG- 19
-I have, believe it or not, several Image Editors on my comp (only Open Source ones I have are Inkscape and GIMP, my others are MSPaint, Ultimate Paint, and Corel Paint Shop Pro X). All of which I've toyed with and have a good understanding of. I've also worked with (and understand) Photoshop in a Graphics Art Class back in my High school days, most of the things I know was self taught, being our teacher wouldn't tell us squat about the program >_>

Writing- 17
-I've recently taken up on writing things, this was after my English teacher told me I had potential to be an author (despite me being that of an artist rather than a writer). I've been told my writings as far as the Virus-tans Backstories are concearned are very well thought out so I think I'm decent in this area. though my lowest stats out of the other 3, I still feel it can be of some use here

So there ya go, Also I will admit, my vector art isn't on par compared to my other draws, so I'd mostly hang out in the Writing, and Research categories for now until I get it together in the Vector region...or I could continue to draw stuff in GIMP if you all so desire
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 12:04:20 am
Thank you, Aurora-hime!!!!  The sausage, I feel, saves my bacon!  (pun intended)  ^v^

Gus-san, welcome aboard!  ^___^
I trust you read my FOSA Guidelines, no?  ^.^

I know you're definitely a valuable asset, given your many Virus-tan contributions.  I would want to avoid raster graphics if at all possible, given that we would need a Converter to turn that to a vector form, and we're understandably a bit short staffed.  

Plus I think you should give vector graphics in Inkscape another try, given that now -- thanks to the 1 hour per day limit -- you have more of a chance to approach this from a leisurely perspective.  Nothing overly-complicated is needed,... just minor little things here and there that will eventually build up to a very lively and very complete illustration when we're all done.  ^.^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 22, 2008, 01:12:36 am
This took just about an hour. I had a very fun time!  ;010

(BTW, these are references to Linux on zSeries and the infamous NetBSD toaster)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 07:50:31 am
From here I will take Bella's patch seeing as it's more 'complete' than the previous ones. From here I will compile that one in combination with my own as I have many things fixed and one (e.g. full set of cabinets, more angle fixes, etc.).

Also I have a few suggestions to make:

--| We need to implement a Task Manager . Anyone of this job class will make sure that no one does two repeated things will be made.

-----|More on this, let's make everyone's lives easier by stating what is each one of us going to do in the project. Repeated tasks do slow us down people.

--| We need to start thinking on that Publisher job class that was suggested before. You know, the guy that will be in charge of submitting the final product.

--| We need to adopt a standard filename with this project.

It will be a bit confusing to keep track of if everyone uses "FOSAkitchen_<their-name>patch<#>.svg" every time they make a patch.

I suggest we do something like "FOSAkitchen_V<#>p<#>.svg", that way, we can all stay current with the exact version and patch number.

Version - Each version will be considered a fully completed image. In this case the Kitchen is still "V0p5" or so, got to count back to know which is the exact patch level..

Patch - Every time someone alters the SVG file. This can grow up to numbers like 100's, 1000's, or even more than that.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 22, 2008, 10:03:05 am
Worked together Aurora's stuff with Bella's, and added in a few plates. Someone's having breakfast, after all ^-^
Took a bit longer since it crashed halfway through first time and I had to start over. -.-

Also, standard filename implemented, somewhat. In my idea we'll just use:
FOSAKitchen_s.v.p-<in>.svg
Where s=status, 1 if complete, 0 if WIP;  v=version number, simply we'll agree on when a new version milestone has been reached and change the number then;  p=patch number, the number of my current patch is 7; <in>= Initials, ex. CC for C-Chan, NO for NejinOniwa, and so on, max 3 letters or so.

Current file would thus be:
FOSAKitchen_0.1.7-NO.svg
which is what I'm uploading right now. -w-

A small patch, but I'll make up for it by working more throughout the day since I don't really have much else to do. ^-^;

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 10:26:48 am
Sugoiness, Bella-sama!!  With one pen stroke, you've effectively cleaned up prerendered the kitchen, and even added some Nix humor to boot!  ^.^

Told you it was going to be fun.

Kissu-san, I hope to see these cabinets and angle fixes soon, cause the groceries are already starting pile up.  ^___^

BTW, I understand your suggestions, and who knows,... maybe one day we'll all feel the collective need to do any of these.

But I should point out the following to your points....

Task manager:  We're lucky now that there are so few people involved in this pilot run, to the point it almost SEEMS like we are effectively taking turns (so the Person B can simply work on whatever Person A did).  However, in a live production environment, you're going to have Person C, D, E, F, G, H, I, and J working simultaneously -- and just like with real FOSS projects, double-work will be inevitable.  And managing all these people may not only be inefficient (if not impossible), but it's also stifling to imagination as well.

Part of the beauty that I hope will be FOSA is in the personal freedom to do what you want, as well as in the blend that will result from works produced by more than one person.  In the case of the same object, will it slow us down to have two people working on it without even realizing?  Maybe.  But then when a compiler merges the two elements together, will not the resulting compromise be all the more richer in detail?  I'm confident it will.  Maybe my cabinet has only empty shelves, and yours is one empty box with a glass door with a metal handle -- combine the two, and you get a cabinet with shelves, a glass door and a metal handle.

Catch my drift?  ^__^

Publisher:  Well there's no one really to submit this final product to, and besides,... just like with the nature of FOSS,... there can never really be a "finished product".  The most we can hope for is a tenuous version 1.0 at best, and even then anyone's more than free to keep working on a v1.0.1. 1.3. 2.0. etc, even as everyone else moves on to less complete projects....

Standard filenames and Version #'s:  This again might be harder to do with more people working simultaneously.  HOWEVER,... I think of all the ideas proposed, this one can actually lend the most polish to the FOSA process.  Even though this is not something that we can reliably commit to in a thread format,... I do believe our "powers-that-be" have taken my FOSA proposal seriously, and are planning extensions to this forum that may be dedicated exclusively to FOSA art.  And yes, that would include auto-created standardized patch names and professional development branches.  ^.^

So I definitely hear you loud and clear here, and all I can say is maybe we can do something nice for you after the Pilot Run.  ^___^

Added after 1 minutes:

Sorry Nejin,... you posted just before I finished that.  Stand by while I look at your stuff.  ^.^

Added after 17 minutes:

Excellent, Nejin-san.  ^^
(FYI, almost forgot,... save often in the Windows version, cause it does get a little crashy... reason why I want to migrate to version 0.46).
Let me know what you think so far.  Probably doesn't beat the fun of a lounge game just yet, but is this something you think you'll be enjoying long term?  ^___^

From what I can see from everyone else's enthusiasm, I have high hopes for this one.  ^___^

BTW, do you know who's light fixture on the left is from?

Also, I'm submitting an uber-quick fix to my cereal box which I overlooked yesterday, plus a repositioning of the new floor shading.


PS:  What does "WIP" stand for?  ''

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 10:33:17 am
Hmm... that's somewhat significant... though I had just finished compiling Bell's with mine.

What I had done:
--|Angle fixes.
--|Addition of a complete set of cabinets. (Using mine.)
------|The tower "cabinet" set should be given an oven and a microwave or be turned into a rack for stuff instead of being turned into a cabinet.
--|Created "Objects" layer to place all objects there instead of the currently overstocked "layer 2".

Because this patch does not include NO's I guess this will be "0.1.7b-KS".

I'll be getting the file up momentarily.

EDIT: CC... "WIP" stands for Work In Progress... as in unfinished.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 11:10:37 am
Love the work on the cabinets!  Also, yes, I was hoping we could fill up the tower cabinet with something more than just shelves, and that sounds like the ticket.  ^__^

BTW, don't feel compelled to compile everything on your own if you don't want to.  Maybe you do, but if it proves a hassle, I can do that later on and call it the official milestone release (say, version 2).

You just concentrate on doing what you want to do, then post.  ^^

Added after 2 minutes:

BTW,... in order to maximize detail,... are we considering turning those into glass door cabinets further down the line?  ^___^

(http://www.remodelingmyspace.com/ideablog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/kitchen_cabinets_glass.jpg)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 01:25:04 pm
Woah... major goal to achieve. In any case... this Pilot FOSA project is simply just a testing ground? So then... 1.2.X's are the official versions? Wow... my brain just twitched into the future and made me wonder on which will be the official OS-tans for the FOSA project... the many Vistans also influenced this thought... I imagined a bunch of variations fighting over who stays. O_O'

Another question... do we have to make props in the file? I mean... it's simpler if people upload the pieces and another person compiles them... I think. Well... at least it will keep filesizes down for the peepz with the dialups (like me who got broadband grounded O_O' *now has broadband only at college*). Final question in regards to filesize... does the compressed SVG format reduce quality of anything within a file?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 22, 2008, 02:22:07 pm
QuoteBTW,... in order to maximize detail,... are we considering turning those into glass door cabinets further down the line? ^___^

Definitely a charming possibility. And since it seems I've gotten/taken the role of our Compiler here, I'll fix that up as soon as anything comes up. Don'tcha worry, yan!

QuoteWoah... major goal to achieve. In any case... this Pilot FOSA project is simply just a testing ground? So then... 1.2.X's are the official versions? Wow... my brain just twitched into the future and made me wonder on which will be the official OS-tans for the FOSA project... the many Vistans also influenced this thought... I imagined a bunch of variations fighting over who stays. O_O'

Another question... do we have to make props in the file? I mean... it's simpler if people upload the pieces and another person compiles them... I think. Well... at least it will keep filesizes down for the peepz with the dialups (like me who got broadband grounded O_O' *now has broadband only at college*). Final question in regards to filesize... does the compressed SVG format reduce quality of anything within a file?

As far as I'm concerned, this pilot project is the lift-off, simply, the first official project. The 1.0.0 release will be the first officially "complete" release, while 1.x.x after that will be further variations, spinoffs or improvements over the 1.0.0 release. Each project gets its own setting, -tans and version listing, of course, so there's not really any specifics.

As for uploading pieces instead of the whole thing: If you feel like you're being short on bandwidth and would benefit from such a solution, sure. It'd put more workload on me as a compiler, and others who join in, but to be true I feel it's a bit lax now with the small amount of original stuff I'm doing -w-; It'll be a bit harder to keep track on what stuff is left to do, though, as well as heighten the need of some sort of task management. At this level though, I'm fine with it, so go ahead and prop up (although I personally think it's easier to work old-school style ^-^; )

Added after 24 minutes:

QuoteExcellent, Nejin-san. ^^
(FYI, almost forgot,... save often in the Windows version, cause it does get a little crashy... reason why I want to migrate to version 0.46).
Let me know what you think so far. Probably doesn't beat the fun of a lounge game just yet, but is this something you think you'll be enjoying long term? ^___^

From what I can see from everyone else's enthusiasm, I have high hopes for this one. ^___^


GUH. Just got another one like it, and it's driving me slightly crazy. Gotta remember to save much and often, in order to avoid losing it all (again) next time.
But other than that, it's been enjoyable, yes. Rawr. Somehow I think I kinda like compiling stuff.

Added after 9 minutes:

There we go! Got it all scratched up again, and this time also added in some extra (somewhat experimental) shading on the sink and tap. 0.1.8 is up and going, folks!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 02:38:03 pm
Man... how unlucky can you get? I just hapen to be at a computer that does not have the Fox... I hate Internet Explorer... and most of all... I hate the compst at college. The people here has no sense of browsing superiority. --__--'
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 22, 2008, 02:40:24 pm
I know how you feel, man. Luckily enough my school account's 60 mb was large enough to host my own Fox, maybe you should try the same? -w-
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 02:51:35 pm
Holy Hell!  What a day it's been (in RL).  T___T

*scarfs down ulcer medicine*

But coming back here makes it all worth it, cause I see nothing but action, productivity, and hard critical thinking!  We haven't even officially started, and already you guys are working like a team!!!  GOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOUZ GUYS!!!!!!!!  ^V^

*C-chan nods head approvingly*

Nejin-san, thank you for compiling the Source art for me -- I definitely needed that, since I've hardly had time to eat lunch even!  ^.^

I think the relatively slow pace of the Pilot Run (notwithstanding the last 24 hours) has got us used to compiling over each other's patch files -- in essence, passing along the Source art.

In actuality, there might be too many simultaneous patches being worked on, that you will encounter instances such as the one where the sausage is missing from the patch file with the latest and greatest cabinets.  For this reason, the Source Art has to remain untouched (and probably get its own naming scheme) until someone declares that it's been updated with all the changes available to that person at the time.  This follows the same precedent in FOSS, with the inevitable last-minute patches not added to the latest build, until the next version.

For this reason also, Kissu-san is right in suggesting that individual patch art CAN only contain the changes being worked on.  Naturally, you have to use your better judgement here:  for example, I COULD'VE (but didn't, cause I'm baka ^^) have had the cereal be all by itself when I submitted the patch.  Likewise, if you're working on adding some plants to the ceiling, and the clouds are slowing your machine's performance down, you can delete them.  In fact, theoretically-speaking, you might be able to get away with producing the changes, then deleting everything else around it so that the Compiler can simply copy and paste it into the exact position in the source (say, a vase over the table, or a dishwasher underneath the sink).

But again, just for now, it's better to limit single-item patches only to accessories that are meant to be moved around freely in the illustration.  I know I'll probably do that going forward.  ^__^

BTW, Nejin-san, it might be useful for you to learn how to Group items together, because that will be useful later when placing my cereal on the shelf and stuff.  I cover it in my tutorial (select, then CTRL+G), but let me know if you need any help.  ^^

Speaking of which, Nejin-san really nailed it on the releases.  Indeed, if I were to guess what his latest compiled Source Art is, I'd say it's version 0.02 at most.  Which means that there's a HELLUVA lot more that could be put into this pic before we can consider it complete.  Believe you and me, in a month's time, you won't even recognize our masterpiece from this, our very humble beginnings.  ^.^

So yes Kissu-san, that blows my mind away too.  ^___^
As far as "official" OS-tans go, it shouldn't come as a surprise that we'd want to focus more on homebrewed OS-tan Collections OS-tans.  Not to say that we wouldn't include canon OS-tans either (although as far as Vistans go, we sort-of endorse the Chiivistan one from +Nijiura+).  ^___^

QuoteFinal question in regards to filesize... does the compressed SVG format reduce quality of anything within a file?


I actually haven't tried it myself, so wouldn't know what to say about that.  There is the risk that it may not be compatible with a version of Inkscape earlier than 0.43 (not that it would happen  ^^') -- still, sounds like something an avid "Researcher" could find out.  ^.^

My outlook on everything is to be as "standard as possible".  
(except for the case of FOSA, which I have to say is pretty UNstandard.... ^^;)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 22, 2008, 03:13:31 pm
I'm going to work on the pic a little bit, using Nejin's patch (which seems to encompass all of our additions).

I should also note I made a pattern fill that made the counters look more like granite...but for some reason it doesn't show up on my patch...

May I propose something, though? Before working on our picture, we should post some ideas planned for it. Just so nobody re-does something.

For instance, I plan on:

-making the cabinet fronts glassy, adding interior shelves
-coloring the walls, ceiling
-tiling the wall behind the sink counter (maybe...I ain't so great at pattern fills)
-trying to re-granite the counters -___-
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 03:48:19 pm
Since we're "home-brewing" the OS-tans... I gues most "non-canon" OS-tan designs will be up to mutual agreement by the FOSA team rather than global acceptance.

In the meantime... I will start work on written work in regards to character designs. But in that context we also need to come up with "our" standards in order to define how are we going to make the original FOSA OS-tans. But then again that is not really necesary to do... I mean, we could wound up supporting a concept that may be somewhat opposing what the OS itself may represent. Who knows?

But if we do get by making our own FOSA-original versions of the various OS-tans (excluding the canon ones that are already accepted by the whole world)... how are we to personify them to be accurate wth their program? Or are we leaving that to a person's creative license? I mean, we all may have different conceptions on what is used from the software to represent what in the character. Reading the wiki made me confused as to this matter. I guess I will come to later post up questions or thoughts as to how may OS tans be physically and mentally represented.

(Yes... I know this has been discussed many a time before.)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 04:22:46 pm
Quote-making the cabinet fronts glassy, adding interior shelves
-coloring the walls, ceiling
-tiling the wall behind the sink counter (maybe...I ain't so great at pattern fills)
-trying to re-granite the counters -___-


Bella-san, are you viewing this through a browser window or something?  Your beautiful granite countertops are still there.  ^__^
(speaking of which, congrats are in order for your continued Pattern filling!)  ^.^

It makes a moot point since no one really redid any of your work yet,... but under the nature of FOSA, you have to get used to people altering your stuff a little every once in a while (after all, you can do the same).  Don't think I'm not eyeing your beautiful fridge, wondering if maybe one of the doors would look better opened.  -v-

Nonetheless, it also helps to plan if you want to,... or rather, more specifically, "brainstorm" ideas.  ^^

QuoteSince we're "home-brewing" the OS-tans... I gues most "non-canon" OS-tan designs will be up to mutual agreement by the FOSA team rather than global acceptance.


Well yeah, when we get to truly FOSA OS-tans.  But... Kissu-san,... you have visited our User Gallery, have you? Our homebrewed OS-tans, by now, far outnumber the canon OS-tan.  List any weird Operating System you can think of, and we probably have an OS-tan for it.  ^.^

So no real need to think a new one up, since there's more than enough to choose from.  But the possibility always exists.  

Personally, I'd like to use other FOSA projects to complete OS-tans designs that never got off the sketching phase.  ^^

As to how they'll be drawn FOSA-style,....

First, I guess you plan out who we want and what we ant them to do.

Let's say [as an example] we opt to include ME-tan in the pic, and we want her to be inserting a rollcake into the oven.  We already know what she looks like, so it'll be an easy process to vector sketch her in that kneeling pose (with the rollcake on a tray in her hands) bit by bit, then codify the sketch bit by bit, then add shading and lighting bit by bit.  We probably wouldn't mess with hairstyles much, but we MAY want to change her clothing and that's where the community could gang up to create something original.  And by that I mean a combination of average clothing (say a ktichen apron and slippers), but drenched in a level of detail impossible to achieve for a single person to do within the same timeframe.
(think of folds in every imaginative part of the clothing, or flower patterns on her ribbons, or a feathering effect on her strawberry-patterned socks, etc)

Naturally, that's a more mundane example,... but clearly it would get even more imaginative if we ever had to, for example, design a Mech Suit for Solaris-sama, or a cannon for 2K-tan, or what not.  A design like that with tons of tubes, pipes, LED lights, circuitry, smoke, lasers, etc, is bound to challenge our ability to innovate!

The real draw behind FOSA is in the potential for absolute depth of detail!  *v*

Added after 4 minutes:

Oh, and as for what I plan to work on next....

I'm think of prepping the floor tiles a little -- or at least the lines for them.  May need your help (Kissu-san) later on to correct their angles.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 05:01:01 pm
QuoteWell yeah, when we get to truly FOSA OS-tans. But... Kissu-san,... you have visited our User Gallery, have you? Our homebrewed OS-tans, by now, far outnumber the canon OS-tan. List any weird Operating System you can think of, and we probably have an OS-tan for it. ^.^

I do have seen the gallery and yes, you have many designs of many stuff I didn't even know of (like the oh so many versions of DOS and Win characters...  even the Mac-tans). But part of the design process is not physical as much as it is mental. Where else can you cover personality traits CC? That's designing too.

As for the Vistan matter... I was going to make my own version of that specific OS as a project, featuring six of them (one of each of Vista's versions [Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Enterprise, Ultimate). But then I saw this and decided to set it aside until I felt like proving myself.

QuoteSo no real need to think a new one up, since there's more than enough to choose from. But the possibility always exists.

Personally, I'd like to use other FOSA projects to complete OS-tans designs that never got off the sketching phase. ^^

As I said before... mutual agreement would be in great need here. maybe add in some polls to let members (and guests I guess) help set a standard FOSA design.

QuoteLet's say [as an example] we opt to include ME-tan in the pic, and we want her to be inserting a rollcake into the oven. We already know what she looks like, so it'll be an easy process to vector sketch her in that kneeling pose (with the rollcake on a tray in her hands) bit by bit, then codify the sketch bit by bit, then add shading and lighting bit by bit. We probably wouldn't mess with hairstyles much, but we MAY want to change her clothing and that's where the community could gang up to create something original. And by that I mean a combination of average clothing (say a ktichen apron and slippers), but drenched in a level of detail impossible to achieve for a single person to do within the same timeframe.
(think of folds in every imaginative part of the clothing, or flower patterns on her ribbons, or a feathering effect on her strawberry-patterned socks, etc)

Naturally, that's a more mundane example,... but clearly it would get even more imaginative if we ever had to, for example, design a Mech Suit for Solaris-sama, or a cannon for 2K-tan, or what not. A design like that with tons of tubes, pipes, LED lights, circuitry, smoke, lasers, etc, is bound to challenge our ability to innovate!

Now THAT was where I was trying to get at! There are a lot of stuff that could be made, but all would have to fall into place with the respective character... cause... not all character are fit to do tasks that others might, as with the various OS softwares. Also, this would be intended to help promote a set standard and maybe allow them to gain acceptance by the rest of the world. the more e do for one, the more support we give that design.

QuoteThe real draw behind FOSA is in the potential for absolute depth of detail! *v*

I guess complexity is also a form of detail. I mean, when I create a character for an RP (Examples: Shin/Kiso, May/Hana)... I make sure that I can provide a level of complexity to the character that makes it unique, not matter how many things the character posseses that is comparable to another. There is always something that one can find to be unique in my characters, and that Is something that I want to help provide for the OS-tans... a level of complexity that allows them all to be unique no matter how much one may resemble (physically or mentally) to the other.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 22, 2008, 05:15:17 pm
Okay, about 45 or so minute's work...

Added after 1 minutes:

As for our own OS-tans, just take a look at the NetBSD design that was proposed. Perhaps one of us will propose our idea, and everyone else will add on stuff until we have a finished character...or something like that...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 05:58:54 pm
Kissu-san, wonderful insight.  Bella-sama, wonderful prework on the cabinets.  (plus love the note: milk, eggs, RAM)

I was on my commute when it occurred to me that perhaps a better Pilot Run would've been to design a logo for FOSS (with various editions, featuring multiple characters to be worn/displayed per the taste of the user -- such as a Windows, edition, Mac edition, Linux edition, Vistan edition, virus edition, etc).  ^____^;
(We COULD still consider this for our official FOSA launch date)

I think you guys are right, and maybe I should rethink the absolute importance of a definitive game plan first.  Some things, like food cans in a cabinet, can be a free-for-all, but other things (like character designs) need a more systematic approach.

*starts pondering*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 07:00:11 pm
Well CC, here's how I will mess with the design of Vistan:

[NAME] <Software> <Version> <Variant>
Windows Vista Starter
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business
Windows Vista Enterprise
Windows Vista Ultimate

[ALIASES] - Nicknames, the way the characters are identified the most.

[HAIR, EYES & CLOTHING COLOR] - Mainly represents DVD cover colors. ((For "Starter" and "Enterprise" I will choose colors on my own.))

[APPEARANCE] - Represents features.

[ATTIRE] - Represents graphical user interface.

[PERSONALITY] - Mainly represents kernel and program behavior.

[PHYSICAL ABILITY] - Represents system requirements.

I will develop more on this my personal guide more as I get ideas flowing for my character.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 07:40:02 pm
Well this is what I call "planning ahead".  ^^
But remind me again,... are you trying to make whole new Vistans?  Cause you do realize that in doing so, you'd effectively be drawing Vistans #1,312,523 to 1,312,529.  Not sure if you wouldn't rather work with designs that already exist, and assign each one as the Vista designation.  We always seem to think of Chiivistan as Ultimate, and the Ninja one as Starter for example.  Certainly would be faster and help cement the whole notion of "official" Vistans and the like.  ^___^

Course, in the spirit of compromise, it WOULD also be nice to have them all wear the same "uniform" (colored differently per their DVD cover colors.  Then you'd have the best of both worlds -- the faces/hair already drawn for us, but the new fashion gear that we could invent..  -v-

The most important thing, though, is that we're either doing things or busy thinking about them, so no matter what SOMETHING will get done down the line.  -v-

For instance...

*plops Bella's patch*

I still have floor tiles to draw.   ^___^

Be right back.  ^.^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 22, 2008, 08:28:40 pm
Well CC, you somewhat hit the jackpot with what I was going to do for my designing. I was considering/thinking of taking reference from the already made Vistans located in the gallery, but kind of was thinking of giving them my own flare to them instead.

However, in the matters of wearing clothes, I was actually thinking making them wear the same outfits as well, but then came up to think that it was not going to be enough. So I came up with making them a rather variable wardrobe, all having the same clothes, but all being given traits that would represent their software counterparts to a better degree.

Example: Home versions would wear the same casual outfits, but Basic would have more "conservative" clothing while Premium would wear the more "Flashy" versions.

The same can be done for the other ???-tans to further exapnd them on this project. Doing this would definitely set us appart from the rest of the OS-tan projects, setting us as probably one of the more complex circles in the OS-tan history. The only people who would be would be "one step ahead" would be the independent artist that make IMGs of the tans with different outfits.

For now I have to go... but I hope to return with a more detailed list of things that I expect to do for the Vistans, or at least a more detailed definition of their characters from my perspective. Oh and, I don't know squat about the nicknames of the Vistans except for Visbou(sp?)... she's the ninja girl right?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 22, 2008, 09:23:28 pm
Fufu... I think so.  ^.^
But I'm sure from what you can tell by my signature, I don't quite jump head over heals learning about the Vistans.  ^___^'
It is important to note, though, that because this project will be completely open, it wouldn't be uncommon for us to, say, create various different clothing for a character of choice.  The clothes could be fit on separate layers, and depending on who wants printed what, he/she can activate the layer of choice and print away.  ^.^
(so we could have, say, Chiivistan in standard armor or elegant dress,... or, say Linux-sama in flipper gear, Juzo gear, Bella gear, and. *salivates* Compiz lingerie)  ^____^

I take it from your enthusiasm here, that qualifies as a kind of "yes" vote to the FOSS Logo project we might be able to launch in February.

I didn't spend much time today with my contribution (due in part to other matters), but I can take a few minutes to make a quick mock-up of a possible logo design.

In the meantime, here's my floor tile patch,... and yes, now it's a patch in the PUREST sense of the world. ^___^

Nejin-san, when you do the next compilation, copy the lines, then do CTRL+ALT+V over the Source file (in the Floor layer) so that they stick firmly in their place.  And this goes for anyone who wants to apply this patch to theirs (e.g., you want to make a tile design).

Added after 45 minutes:

Okay, remember the logo is just pure and simple concept art.  ^__^

Don't want to open up a can of worms over something that's meant to be a simple, cute distraction.  ^^

Added after 1 minutes:

'Kay, that's enough for me.  Time to get a'crackin on

A)  Aurora's PANEL 4.  ^^'

B)  Bella-sama's present.  ^^;

*wallows in shame*

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 23, 2008, 04:06:58 am
Hmm... that one looks simple enough... even though it's something I consider to be more of a banner than it would be logo. Still I like it... wonder if I'll ever make a logo proposal myself.

Meanwhile, I will simply let you guys up on the latest patch... V0.2.0!

Changes:
--| House structure definition.
--| Shape editing.
--| Angle fixes.
--| Alignment fixes.
--| Implementation of tiles from CC's patch.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Techno the fox on January 23, 2008, 08:34:10 am
Hello FOSA members, I'm here!

First, as to Kiso's post regarding the Vistans.
There's plenty to go around.

Ninja "Visbou" Vistan - Windows Vista Basic
ChiiVistan - Windows Vista Ultimate
Sailor Fuku Vistan - ??
"Dark" Vistan - ??

This is what I mean when I say "Dark Vistan"
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s240/saturn_the_hedgehog/normal_800px-Vista-chan.jpg)
I don't see much of her, though she's one of my favorite vistan designs.

I've also seen a few more designs stalking about the gallery.


Which brings me to my next order of buisness.
Yes, the gallery seems to be down (or at least it was a little whie ago when I was browsing here on my PSP.


Another thing, for some reason I can't seem to download the .SVG files.
When I click on the "Download" button I get a popup page with a bunch on unitelligible babble in Red, Black, and Brown with words like "Inkscape" "SVG" "Style" and "Border" mixed in with alot of 1's and 0's.

Is something wrong with my computer? Or am I doing something wrong?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 23, 2008, 09:05:03 am
Oh... you must be using I.E. or a browser not compatible with SVG files. It is actually being read as an XML document (and SVSs are in fact a form of XML document) and thus you will see the text instead of Vecs (vectors).

You need Mozilla Firefox to view things from the browser. Anyways, I think you can save that from I.E. But you may have to manually change the file to SVG.

Another thing... I will present my concept project here, even though it can't really be considered FOSA project because it is more of my personal pet project. Still, it would wound up being FOSA team discussion in the future.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 23, 2008, 09:48:16 am
Holy Crap-in-a-Box!!!  Everything looks so polished and orderly, you'd think we were already at FOSA Kitchen version 2.0!  ^____^

Also, thank you for stopping by Techno-san!!!  ^v^
Yeah, the gallery's being goofy again -- Tsubashi-san won't be able to fix it until at least Thursday, but it will be fixed no matter what.

And thank you, Kissu-san, for troubleshooting.  ^.^

I actually have to disappear for a few hours, so if you guys don't mind, hold the fort while I'm gone.  Bai ni!  ^.^

*gallops off*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 23, 2008, 11:16:29 am
Well bloody hell! Now we're getting somewhere, aren't we!?

Something's been on my mind, though - any idea on how to fix those flarps of text sticking out in the air? They're a bit disturbing.

Also, I think it's time to start sketching up character models, that we can add in later.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Techno the fox on January 23, 2008, 11:52:00 am
Thanks Kiso, that trick of yours fixed it right up.
Yeah, I am running IE..I right click on the download button, save target as, all files, tack .svg onto the end and viola! It works.
.
.
.

HOLY SHNIKEY!!  *Dramatic classical music plays in the background*
*Duh---Duh---Duh--DAH DAH*
That...is..Simply AWESOME! Too much..for words..Whew..
*faints*

*Comes to several miniutes later*

Awesome job everyone. Nice shading and design.

Hey, it's the NetBSD toaster!
Y'know what they say..All toasters toast toast.

The Next thing I notice is the fridge. "Linux on Fridgidair".
Then Ubuntu and the grocery list for ..among other things RAM.

I love how the Mods/Members make cameos in foods.
"C-Chan Sausage, Captain Brunch."
Heheheheh.

Yes, I'm going to start making contributions to it too, I can see the start of something beautiful. The FOSA ^_^.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 23, 2008, 01:57:42 pm
After a long while of thinking, writing, and messing around with my concept... this is the little stuff I managed to gather up from my mind.

[NAME] <Software> <Version> <Variant>
Windows Vista Starter
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business
Windows Vista Enterprise
Windows Vista Ultimate

[ALIASES] - Nicknames, the way the characters are identified the most.

ST: TBA

HB: TBA

HP: TBA

BU: TBA

EN: TBA

UL: TBA

[HAIR, EYES & CLOTHING COLOR] - Mainly represents DVD cover colors. ((For "Starter" and "Enterprise" I will choose colors on my own.))

ST: Grayed White

HB: Light Green

HP: Green

BU: Blue

EN: Light Blue

UL: Black

[APPEARANCE] - Represents features.

ST: A young girl probably close to her teen years.

HB: Apparently a mid-late teenager, (nearly) identical twin to Home Premium.

HP: Apparently a mid-late teenager, (nearly) identical twin to Home Basic.

BU: A woman to be apparently in her mid twenties.

EN: A woman to be apparently in her late twenties.

UL: A girl in her late-teens/early-twenties.

[ATTIRE] - Represents graphical user interface.
For one reason or another, all of the Vistans share something in common, their taste for clothing. They all have the same clothes; however, they tend to wear stuff that would go to match by their personalities and preferences.

ST: Fairly simple outfits with no much flashy stuff.

HB: Conservative clothing. Designs identical to Home Premium's.

HP: Trendy casual clothing. Designs identical to Home Basic's.

BU: Professional-looking clothes; looking flashy, but never trying to make trend nor follow fads that religiously.

EN: Executive-like clothing, often seen carrying PDAs

UL: ???

[PERSONALITY] - Mainly represents kernel and program behavior.
Multi-lingual...
The Vistans are well know for their ability to interact with people of many nationalities, being capable of speaking most (if not all) of the world most popular and important languages. If they can't understand someone's language... they just simply give a call to MS Scolar City Library to reserve a language book if available.

Defensive!
In general, these girls follow rules to the letter and are not easy to get, being defensive most of the time possible... event hough they do like to interact with the people around them, specially amongst themselves. However, when it comes to complete strangers, they really tend to ignore them almost as if they were not there. Neither of the Vistans will use stuff that are known, preferring the quality they provide no matter how much cheaper or "better" this unknown counterpart is. And even don't try to fool them, even young "Starter" will tell the difference by just looking at it's name.

Compatible?
As much as they are good with interaction, they are capable of interacting with much of anything. Media, office, and nay other devices are things they don't have hard time with, except for those that are "ancient" which they have trouble understanding, and dislike using them just for being old and preferring the newer ones that can do just that an more.

When it comes to other OS-tans, a Vistan is rather picky with who she would be hanging out with. They mostly enjoy each other's company, but they do find themselves to like spending time with others, most notably with the Unix (EN & UL have the closest relationships with them).

What they prefer to do?
The Vistans are a somewhat diverse group of sisters and all behave as they see fit in their collective standard thinking pattern. However, they all have thinking patterns that make them rather unique.

ST: The young girl, being the more modest of the group, she asily interacts with others and often tries to make the interaction between her and another person worth the effort. She is one to look up to her sister "Ultimate", seeing her as the role-model to follow, even more so than "Business" and "Enterprise"; this being so due to her noting the obvious genius that her sister possesses.

HB: Simple, what her sister likes... she doesn't... or at least on the most part. She is in part like "Starter" in terms of modesty, but at the same time she is somewhat arrogant. She has a habit of reading books (whether of art, literature, or anything she gets interest on) and researching. She likes to stay at home, preferring the comfort she is accustomed to. She is introverted, simply keeping silence when around people to either not call out attention to her, or often as a means to ignore those people she doesn't even want to know. However, she likes spending the most time with her twin sister "Premium", finding it to be the most enjoyable thing throughout the day.

HP: She is "Basic's" opposite, something bit of ironic when noted that they are actually twins. When compared to the rest of the tans, she is often seen as the hyperactive and extroverted tomboy of the group. She is one to do guy things like playing video games, tabletop games, sport games, listening to (and/or create) music with loud volume levels. Still, even with all the tomboyish stuff she does, she maintains herself as quite feminine (but mainly due to her physical appearance). Most of all, she is very considerate and pays most attention to her twin sister "Basic", preferring to be with her most than with her other sisters. It is notable in her arrogance, she being the casual show-off in most situations, and dislikes being taken off the stoplight, even more loosing at what she does best. These things irritate her more when her sister "Ultimate" is the one who does it, demonstrating sisterly love-hate feelings for her.

BU & EN: These two are the professionals of the Vista sisters. They are also the ones who keep the order and peace amongst themselves. It is notable that seeing these two together will mean conversations of money, auctions, the stock market... always talking business. However, "Business" is more independent than her sister "Enterprise", the former is used to go about things with her own small company while the latter deals with managing a large corporation. However, they often keep contact while working to help each other out find success (and likely the big loads of money). For a reason or another, they seem to keep track of "Starter" path making sure that she keeps up to date along with the "Home Twins", they being the most obvious “mother figures”.

UL: She may very well be the prodigy amongst the Vistans. The jack of all trades, and actually could be considered as master of all. This is relfected in her ability to understand and usually out match the other tans in their work. This Vistan though, is modest like "Starter" and "Basic" are, but seems to be one to know when to play arrogant or simply show off when encouraged enough. But more than that, she is rather introverted and the most safe-thinking person of the group; she often avoids unwanted contact with people and won't hesitate to make her personal space be kept personal.

When it comes to spending time with her sisters, “Ultimate” is indifferent of preference, spending time with either one in a sort of "first come, first serve" basis. However, she seems to be more encouraging towards young starter, often challenging her to do things that she considers to be out of her league; while for the "Home Twins" she simply treats them at their own level, unless she feels like making "Premium" mad in a moment of whims; but rather treats both “Business” and “Enterprise” with respect, being the most formal with them eve though often speaking to them in a more comfortable manner.

However this indifference brought is drawn to her seek friends outside of her local “world”, finding time with the UNIX girls to be actually enjoyable; she communicating with them rather well and also serving as the links between them and the Vista sisters.

[PHYSICAL ABILITY] â€" Mainly represents system requirements and software performance.

ST: TBA

HB: TBA

HP: TBA

BU: TBA

EN: TBA

UL: TBA


*idea!!*

Also, there is something that came up to my mind as I continued work on my VISTAN-DEV project... also influence by another drawing I was making on Inkscape and the current Pilot FOSA project we are dealing with. We need to set a lot of ways to prevent object mess-ups.

One of these ways is to have a standard set of layers in order to have full view of the spaces that are available to the scene. I will take the current project as an example:

-Layer 1: Outside - Obviously to present the background out of the house through the windows. We got that one well.

-Layer 2: Architecture & Furniture 1 - This would apply to the right wall in the SVG as well as all it's furniture and junk.

-Layer 3: Character Layer A - This layer will be right on top of the A&F1, allowing characters to be fully placed anywhere on this layer and still be on top of the right wall's layer (cabinets, etc...).

-Layer 4: Achitecture & Furniture 2 - This applies to the left walls, allowing the characters on CLA to move to the non visible area of the kitchen.

-Layer 5: Character Layer B - This layer will allow characters to move in the area in front of the left wall and the furniture there (fridge, etc...).

-Layer 6: Architecture & Furniture 3 - This applies to the kitchen's island.

-Layer 7: Character Layer C - This layer will allow characters to move in the foreground, on top of all of the other layers.


That is just an example, but I know for sure there can even be more levels of customizations that could allow a much greater level of detail as well as layer unclogging. This would also allow us to create a lesser amount of character animations to allow a successful animation to occur... otherwise we would have to create a full character as well as endless "cut-out" versions for each process of the animation in order to complete the animation without problems. Just an idea though.

@N-O: Well... I can start vectorizing IMGs of characters I have... though... I only have [Vista/Longhorn]-tans downloaded. lol

No wait! Oh yeah, I remember!! I have that one MCE downloaded... and that folder of OS-tans. Man, I must be loosing my mind... forgetting stuff like that. >_<'
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 23, 2008, 02:59:55 pm
Hi people!

Don't mind me, just stopping by to pay my respects.  ^___^

Nejin-san:  [cheering]  Yes, yes, we are getting bloody!  ^v^
The text is a problem because you probably don't have the same text that Bella-sama used in her computer.  Same problem happened with me and Aurora in those Xmas comics.  Either have her vectorize her font, or just change the font of it to something that looks at least halfway decent.  ^.^

Character model sketches would be great, but we'll keep them separate from the source art until we've agreed on who + doing what pose.


Techno-san:  Yay!  The Great Techno-san is now fully versed in the greatness-that-could-be-FOSA.  ^^
Plus you see how the lossless nature of vector graphics can make for some very neat, hilarious little easter eggs strewn all over the place.  ^.^

By all means, please contribute.  We're looking forward.  ^.^

Kiso:  First off, you need an avatar.  T__T
Second off,... HOLY HELL!  What detail!  ^v^
Can't guarantee the level of help we can offer during you ambitious VISTA recreation, but seems like you have all the bases covered anyway.  ^^

No doubt we will need more complex layering when the project becomes more and more complex.  Fortunately, there's also Grouping that can help micromanage small, complicated layers (in this case, such as food cans and cereals).  Most of my most complicated drawings were actually produced on a single layer (and with Grouping used to allow for easy selection and reediting).

An already thinking of Animation, aren't we?  I figured, since that's what you say you specialize in.  ^____^

Don't do too much with the character poses, though.  We still need to decide who will appear in the kitchen scene -- and trust me, we're not ones to necessarily make an all-Windows group.

(actually Ihad thought of such a Windows-only scene,... but basically involving the Windows kitchen being raided by hundreds of tiny little virus-tans, with most of the Windows-tans trying to stop them, and Viru-sama perched on the overhead doing some masterminding.... `v')

Okay, that's all for now.... C y'all later!  ^___^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 23, 2008, 05:16:39 pm
CC, I need an avatar? Hmm... wonder what will I put in there.

Uhm... actually... I don't need much help in the design process of "my" (can't say I am truly making originals I guess) Vista family until I hit the imaging process... then you would be able to contribute if you feel like... but still I will keep it somewhat off-project unless people wish them ("my" Vistans) to be in the FOSA project.

Well, I guess it is true... object grouping does help, but that is mainly used to make a global selection of stuff within the layer so that people don't go selecting (plus editing and whatever) them one by one. The intent of this suggestion ins mainly that of keeping the image from having multiple "cut-outs"... it would help keep the file-size down.

Also, this would work out quite excellent with stills as well, this isn't something just for animations you know.

Worry not, (at least) I will not go over m head with animating... I mean, we're still getting used to doing a project like this to even be working on stuff that may be hard to get by some... even more with a program that still lack the power to make animations (last I checked).
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 23, 2008, 07:28:07 pm
QuoteI don't see much of her, though she's one of my favorite vistan designs.


Seconded ^_^

And I'm glad to hear you like what you're seeing!

QuoteAlso, I think it's time to start sketching up character models, that we can add in later.


...I was kinda thinking the same thing...

Though, I'd draw the character separate from the rest of the kitchen. But let us not get ahead of ourselves :P

QuoteEither have her vectorize her font, or just change the font of it to something that looks at least halfway decent. ^.^


....Oh, okay, I'll have to do that when I get the chance. I was worrying that this might happen...

And wow, Kiso, you've really planned out all those Vistan designs well!

Added after 1 hours 15 minutes:

Less than an hour's work...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 24, 2008, 12:09:31 am
BWAHAHAHA!!!!!  ^V^
*sees G5 cheese greater*

Speaking of which,... in the process of creating my next contribution.  Please stand by.  ^___^

*turns on elevator music*

Added after 1 hours 2 minutes:

Okay ready.  Just barely made it within the hour.  ^.^

Added so many things here and there, had no choice but to keep it with the Source art.....

CHANGE LIST:
=========

- Per Kissu-san's suggestion, added another layer.  Although this one is for comments and sketches, which are intended to be hidden/deleted during rendering.  Can also serve as a de facto message board.
- Turned cabinets adjacent to fridge into a pantry.
- Raise Bella-san's clock a little
- Added placeholders for a microwave and oven.
- Added placeholder for another set of cabinets.
- Added new Easter Egg product (people who access the SVG file will get to see it).  ^.^
- Added FOSA magnets
- Added Inu-T's Property Laws to fridge (based on my Shiba Inu Property Laws list I got for my dog)  ^>^

Added after 5 minutes:

Oh and sorry, I'm a bit tired.  So if you guys don't mind me, I'll respond to all outstanding stuff tomorrow.  ^___^

*snore*  Zzzzzzz  -.-

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 24, 2008, 10:23:53 am
Woah... things are really lookin' up! Anyways, there are things that I noted to be somewhat odd... mainly angle and alignment stuff.

Also, I found something while messing with Inkscape. You can add metadata into the file; there's a lot of stuff that can be filled out. Just click "File" on the menu bar and look for something about metadata. You'll be able to put a lot of stuff to tell more about what is the file about, who made it, and much more stuff. You can even select the license you want to apply into the file (provided as: Propietary, multiple Creative Commons licenses, GNU licenses and the oh-so-open Free Art license.)

*sigh*

I would be getting back in on the action, but today I am tied up with being at college. Stupid wireless networks that hates Vista!! >_<'

That made me realize that the Vistans may be victims of extremely heavy prejudice by many. I mean, if we compare the OS to real people, they'd be "goody-goody two shoes"... girls that dislike any sort of illicit behaviour and would be as rightcheus as to tell the authorities unpon sight, and if they know they can't solve the situation by their own means.
[EXAMPLE: "Premium" is offered a pirated CD/DVD and buys it. Then she calls the FBI and tells who is doing it (plust gives the bought pirated disc as proof) and they storm the guy's place. The guy gets arrested and taken to court... guy is fined for $35.7 million dollars due to having been found with all the music in his HDD (1+ Tb) and sent to prison for not being able to pay. In the end, many people start being more distant from her because she told on a guy instead of just keeping shut.]

But this goody-goody attitude may also be one to praise, as they would try to be helpful to others, and are even willing to seek support herself in order to deal with the task at hand.
[EXAMPLE 1: "Starter" sees a brand new iPod on the ground (yes... you read it right). She looks around and then decides to take it. After getting home, she remembers that she still has it and ponders what to do with it. After hearing some for it's music for about 5 minutes she then goes over to "Ultimate", telling her about the situation (as if she was not the one who did it) and she is told that she should look for the one who lost it and return it. After, she simply goes crazy with printing pictures and puts them for view on the streets. Eventually, one of the Mac-tans calls in and tells the description of her iPod as well as telling what sort of stuff was in it. In the end, "Starter" gets herself the appreciation of the owner, as well as a card to get free iTunes downloads.]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 24, 2008, 12:27:09 pm
QuoteCC, I need an avatar? Hmm... wonder what will I put in there.


Fufufu.... well we didn't create an Avatar Gallery at the Wiki for nothing.  ^___^

http://ostan-collections.net/wiki/Avatar_Gallery

Here, let me pick something out....

(http://ostan-collections.net/wiki/images/2/26/Vista3.gif)

(seriously, we need a CHiivistan one in there... O__o)

Or better yet, something more appropriate to the "kissu" thing.  ^___^

http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/albums/userpics/10570/1129473848607.jpg

QuoteUhm... actually... I don't need much help in the design process of "my" (can't say I am truly making originals I guess) Vista family until I hit the imaging process... then you would be able to contribute if you feel like... but still I will keep it somewhat off-project unless people wish them ("my" Vistans) to be in the FOSA project.


No problemo.  That's why I love the 1-hour rule,... leaves plenty of time for other projects, and besides that it doesn't give me the kind of burnout I've felt with many of my own projects.  ^.^

QuoteWorry not, (at least) I will not go over m head with animating... I mean, we're still getting used to doing a project like this to even be working on stuff that may be hard to get by some... even more with a program that still lack the power to make animations (last I checked).


Not for long!  ^v^

*C-chan cheers with joy and redirects Kissu-san to Inkscape roadmap*

http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap#Milestone_13_-_Inkscape_0.47
(read on to version 0.48 )

*squeals with the delight*  THE FUTURE'S LOOKIN' BRIGHTER EVERY DAY!!  ^V^

But yeah, animation in Inkscape would be phenomenal,... especially considering I haven't seen any FOSS animation tools that I could consider workable and user-friendly.  KToon and Synfig each have their problems.

Quote...I was kinda thinking the same thing...

Though, I'd draw the character separate from the rest of the kitchen. But let us not get ahead of ourselves :P


Agreed and agreed.  ^__^
We're not even in February yet.  ^v^

Fortunately, I think the kitchen example does illustrate one benefit of FOSA,....
When you combine an image that makes equal use of both organic (people) and inorganic shapes (furniture), people who may not feel entirely comfortable with one can focus on the other, and still contribute to the illustration's ultimate completion.

So far all the OS-tans drawn in the FOSAKitchen have been tiny easter eggs, but I'm eager to see how our full character renditions will fare.  ^.^

Quote....Oh, okay, I'll have to do that when I get the chance. I was worrying that this might happen...


Just in case anyone needs a refresher with converting Text to editable nodes, click on the text using the Edit Tool, then click on the Convert Selected Object to Path button in the top toolbar.  Or conversely, you can go ahead and press SHIFT+CTRL+C.

QuoteWoah... things are really lookin' up! Anyways, there are things that I noted to be somewhat odd... mainly angle and alignment stuff.


Yep, in my mind, you're the honorary Angle-Fixer-Upper.  ^.^
Actually, since this has much to do with fixing Strokes, this job is really an extention of a Refiner's job.  Hence, you are also a Refiner.  ^____^

QuoteAlso, I found something while messing with Inkscape. You can add metadata into the file; there's a lot of stuff that can be filled out. Just click "File" on the menu bar and look for something about metadata. You'll be able to put a lot of stuff to tell more about what is the file about, who made it, and much more stuff. You can even select the license you want to apply into the file (provided as: Propietary, multiple Creative Commons licenses, GNU licenses and the oh-so-open Free Art license.)


WOW!!!  Even I didn't know that!!  @v@
Heck yeah!  That'll make things very easy!  ^____^

By all means,... whoever will compile the next source file, please get us off that nasty Proprietary thingy and choose a more honorable open license (GPL2 I trust, but then the Licensors among you should no better.... ^__^).

Excellent bit of Researching, Kissu-san!  ^v^

*shows Kissu-san with buckets of praise*

I have to order more 'praise'.  ^____^

*places order for several more liters of praise*

Quote*Vista descriptioin*


Uhhhh..... ^^;

...

Well think about it this way,... you have six separate Vistans, so no doubt both have their individual personalities that, nevertheless, all play on their job as enforcers.  The charming Chiivistan and the cute Visbou (the ninja) are probably friendlier, more playful, or yeah perhaps overly goody-to-shoe.  So even if they dump you into Limited Functionality Mode due to a technicality, you can't help but ruffle the hairs of such "wascally wabbits" and just squeeze their cute little cheeks, and frolic about with them, and lol, and stuff....  ^___^

Someone like Sailor Fuku, though, might be more heavy-handed.  Perhaps to the point of reminding you what an airport security line would feel like.  *v*

And then there's the obligatory stuck-up office-lady-working-in-Human-Resources-type, who technically IS doing the right thing and is upholding the law, but somehow takes pride and joy in being as obnoxious in her legalistic perfection as possible.  

....  ^^;

Ahhhh yes,... who needs Aero anyway,... hook me up with Visbou-chan anyday.  I'll even suck in the fact that she's very very short.  ^^;

=========================================================

Regarding my next course of action,.... I think it's time to add a few plants to the overhang.  ^___^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 24, 2008, 01:41:11 pm
The Avatar Gallery
Well... I guess I will check it out before I decide. The Chiivistan is indeed in need of being put up there... it'd be something to see.

"The Kiss" (My nickname. XDD)
Woah... I'm not used to Mac-tans but still I feel like I feel in love with that one image. Even more ironic, iPod has the same hair color that I prefer when using avatars with male characters in them. I guess I would check out making myself an Avy before I go final with my avy thoughts. ^_^

Burnout
I guess you are right on that... I don't get tired of doing FOSA stuff. But when I turn to personal stuff... I kind of drift off, get distracted, feel like sleeping... you know, the works. I guess in that one case at the least, the FOSA project is already a success.

Inkscape 0.48
No... freaking... way!!! Yes, I will be one to try this one out. I have never tried animating in SVG because I had no chance to get a hold of Adobe Flash, but now that is not (going to be) a problem. Wonder how would things behave under animation.

OS-Tans In The Set.
You know CC, I wonder that very same thing, but I am sure the OS-Tans would come out nice. There is bound to be people who can get by characters rather well... I mean, in the anime sense. However, there is not such thing as right or wrong when drawing unless the team has a collective agreement of what kind of anatomycal presicion we are trying to achieve in here.

I are "The (Refining) Kiss"?
Yes, you are right on that, I do mess with strokes, nodes, paths, and other things in order to fix angles... so yeah, thank you for the statement.

Metadata Report
No probs... messing with stuff is what I do... if I didn't find about this now I might have done later... or eventually. Anyways, I guess I can go with keeping track of the metadata section of the SVG... anyone else can continue on with their doings. Thanks for the praise anyways... much appreciated! ^_^

The Vistan Sisters' Enforcement Personality
You are quite right on what you say. Each and every one of them will act acordingly to their personality, but all of them still aiming to achieve the same goal, do what is right. But for now, I guess I can call the Vistans character develpment to a halt in this thread... don't want to drive it way off topic. We're not fully don't with the house and we're already trying to figure out characters actions and reactions. I however, might get to bring the complexity of Vista back into discussion when they (all of them I guess) are drawn up and I need your aid... and that if we are going to use them in the pilot.

Final Note
Hey guys, I will later come to make suggestions for when FOSA becomes officially "open for business". I'm going to talk about all the stuff that we should be aiming to do for then, that includes restating things that have been said before. I guess most of them would be procedures and standards to follow in order to make the best both of the FOSA team, the fosa projects, as well as the SVG files. I guess I'll make these be known in my next post.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kami-Tux on January 24, 2008, 02:22:03 pm
I only now saw this topic and wanted to give you all a big 'wing up'! Absolutely awesome work!

Only small nitpicking however: it's Irrelevant Ilex  and how come it is/will be released two months delayed? I'd have expected it to be 9.4...
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 24, 2008, 02:48:23 pm
Yo yo yo!  ^___^

Quick post (cause I'm in the middle of something)....

Kissu-san:

- Sonata-sensei-based avatar (especially that one kissing the iPod-chan) would be much loved.  Trust me. ^___^
- "FOSA FTW" is what I would say if I were more slang-adept.  ^^
- The hell with Inkscape 0.46.... I want my 0.48!  NOOOO!!!  ^0^

*stamps foot*

- Excellent insight on everything else.  You're still relatively new, but you're contributions have been dynamite!  ^v^
-I hope Tsubashi-san can return soon, so he can also divulge his take on the future of FOSA.  The technical aspect, anyway.  ^^
In the meantime, you yeah sure I think we should pepper the Guidelines (w/inevitable revisions) here often, since it's very easy to bury with all this text.  ^v^


Great Penguin God

Aha!  I was wondering where you might have gone to!  Was hoping since you love everything that is Free and Open Source, FOSA would be up by your alley.  ^^

Any interest in sticking around some, and help "seed" the project?  ^___'

Added after 5 minutes:

Oh, and I'm sorry.  I just couldn't help it!  ^__________^

Some suggestions on making the Inu-T Property Laws segment more "Windows Parody" like are always welcomed,... but not exactly priority since you can hardly see it anyway.  ^.^

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Techno the fox on January 24, 2008, 06:29:35 pm
Whew, I've been working in inkscape for about an hour or two every day, and since you guys gave me those tips on tracing everything's been flying and going swell. Thanks.

That Christmas pic will be done shortly, in a little while I will release a prototype version to give you all a peek at what is soon to come.
(Consider it my much belated christmas present)

I may not be the fastest artist here, but I am rather quick to make up storylines. Once this whole thing has gotten started I can really see myself as a big contributor to the story.

Another thing, I have a few ideas for more parodies to put in.
It may take me a little while though, as I'm still brainstorming on their design. (Abraxas brand eggs anyone?)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 24, 2008, 09:14:51 pm
Nice job C-Chan, I was wondering when we'd see a oven and microwave....

Maybe I'll add them, but I've been quite busy today with my own project...

Quote- Added Inu-T's Property Laws to fridge (based on my Shiba Inu Property Laws list I got for my dog) ^>^


Oh man, that list is hilarious! And sounds like my dog's attitude :P

Hmmm...Shiba Inu? I've actually never heard of them before now ^///^

QuoteWhew, I've been working in inkscape for about an hour or two every day, and since you guys gave me those tips on tracing everything's been flying and going swell. Thanks.

That Christmas pic will be done shortly, in a little while I will release a prototype version to give you all a peek at what is soon to come.
(Consider it my much belated christmas present)

I may not be the fastest artist here, but I am rather quick to make up storylines. Once this whole thing has gotten started I can really see myself as a big contributor to the story.


I'm glad to hear your working with Inkscape! I can't wait to see some of your drawings :)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 24, 2008, 11:27:21 pm
QuoteWhew, I've been working in inkscape for about an hour or two every day, and since you guys gave me those tips on tracing everything's been flying and going swell. Thanks.


Awesome!  If this has spurred your interest in Inkscape and vector graphics in general, than it looks like we're doing our job.  I'm very happy for you, Techno-san -- I think you'll find those knowledge will suit you well in all matter of applications, from school to work.  ^.^

QuoteThat Christmas pic will be done shortly, in a little while I will release a prototype version to give you all a peek at what is soon to come.
(Consider it my much belated christmas present)


Thank you, look forward to seeing your goods.  ^___^

QuoteI may not be the fastest artist here, but I am rather quick to make up storylines. Once this whole thing has gotten started I can really see myself as a big contributor to the story.


Aha! We have another writer in our midst.  ^v^

QuoteIt may take me a little while though, as I'm still brainstorming on their design. (Abraxas brand eggs anyone?)


If you're not entirely sure what to draw, yeah feel free to post some ideas and we'll tell you what we think.  Generally-speaking, the more "LOLs" a parody description brings in, the likelier it is that it'll work.

Abraxas eggs call for major "LOL"-ing.  ^___^

QuoteNice job C-Chan, I was wondering when we'd see a oven and microwave....

Maybe I'll add them, but I've been quite busy today with my own project...


Understandable,... I still have to finish your present.  ^.^
And Aurora's comic,...
And EeePC testing...

And half a dozen other things.

*C-chan whines whines whines*

But yeah, I think a comments layer would help pass on ideas to other potential Seeders (I'm starting to get used to that term.  ^.^

QuoteOh man, that list is hilarious! And sounds like my dog's attitude :P

Hmmm...Shiba Inu? I've actually never heard of them before now ^///^


For shame, cause Shiba Inus are the best dogs in the world!!!  ^v^

.....

That is, if your definition of a dog is actually a "Cat-Dog", cause that's what my beloved Shiba is.  Intelligent and cunning, fast and agile, strong-willed and independent, graceful and elegant, proud and a fine gourmand.  She don't need no stinking humans to survive, but her Highness does concede to allow me to be her Royal Scratcher and provider of provisions.  She considers anything smaller than her edible, and is the terror of mice, squirrels and insects.  Like the old saying, she rarely barks, but has a wolf's bite.  ^____^

The fact that she's Japanese also helps blend well with my Anime collection.  ^v^
(in fact, I name her after my favorite Japanese Singer,... won't say who it is, though... ^.^)

Here's a fantastic website (funny as hell too):

http://www.bravewolf.ca/shibainu.html

QuoteI'm glad to hear your working with Inkscape! I can't wait to see some of your drawings


Speaking of which, due to a change in plans I can't submit a Patch tonight and may have to do it in the morning.

Fortunately, I did spend time doing some R&D on a new Effects called Pattern Along Path, which (after a little more experimentation) I belief will help me a ton with the plants.  ^___^

Stay tuned.  ^.^

*trots off*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 25, 2008, 05:27:59 am
I had made additions and modifications to the Kitchen. Among these changes:
--| More shape and angle fixes.
--| Re-sizing and re-positioning of the clock.
--| Addition and basic detailing of the microwave and oven.
-----|They are intended to have a GUI instead of buttons... but you can changed that if you want.
--| Lighting fixes.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 25, 2008, 09:05:45 am
*staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaring lovey-dovey*  *v*

.
.
.
.
.


Hmmm?  Wha?  Oh....  ^__^

Sorry, too busy drooling at your avatar to realize you posted the latest Source Art release.  Thank you for filling in the Microwave and oven -- now that part of the illustration isn't looking bare any more.  Once I'm done with the plants, I'll check out a GUI we can use (or maybe we'll go retro with a DOS or BASH-style terminal.... ^.^)

Now if you'll excuse me....  ^^

*continues staring lovey-dovey*

Sonata-sensei....  *v*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 25, 2008, 09:40:20 am
Hmm... I guess the drooling was to be expected. Anyways... I think I should make a smaller one... not sure though, didn't want to remove much stuff or make the important stuff to loose quality with the resizing. An more irony comes my way as it represent everything that I was supposed to hate, or at least be disgusted by.

*hasn't been able to go through with reading mushy stuff without feeling like his eyes are melting or wanting to barf... seems to not apply with pictures*

I am also pondering the idea of animating it some. Maybe make the heart move a bit as well as go beating. But then again I can try animating the whole "Kissy-Kiss" (more nickname puns).

Anyways, let's move more back on topic. Uhm... why not make something of our own? I mean, we can go with making a holographic system, maybe a touch screen or something... or even have a voice command system. I think it can also work with a combo of the three.

One thing is for sure, when thinking of a design you have to think "it's so freaking easy that not even ME can use it and crash, freeze, or blow up in the process".

Hmm... wonder if that is even possible at all.

*thinks for a while*

Hey... I just thought something and got to a conclusion. I think that pig you have for an avatar should feature in the scene... or maybe become an actual character of the FOSA project. (In fact, we should create "pun" characters for the project based on members... OS-tans wouldn't live alone you know.) Dunno' though, that pig I have seen somewhere else, or at least it resembles one from another anime/manga series.

This made my brain twitch and thought about a lot of stuff in regards to where how do tans live. I guess my mind wants an OS-tan anime. lol
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 25, 2008, 02:41:21 pm
*BURSTS IN!!!!*

GYAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!  ^V^

IT WORKED!!!!!!
PATTERN ALONG PATH WORKED BEAU-TI-FUL-LY!!!!!!!  I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT!!!!!!!!  WAAAAAAAIIIIII!!!!!!!!!  ^V^


*posts updated source*

*bounces out of thread temporarily to do some celebrating/rioting first*

Added after 3 minutes:

Okay, I have to do two thing when I come back....

1)  Reply to Kissu-san and drool at the avi some more.

2)  Discuss what to do when the source file gets very very large (whoops).  ^___^'

*runs off to pour champagne over self*

Added after 20 minutes:

*comes crawling back*

'kay,....
Where was I?

Ah yes:

Drool:  It can't be helped, no?  ^__^
*staaaaaaaaaares at avi*
And yeah, as you get older and [even] wiser, you'll notice that your tolerance for sweet things expands.  To get you prepared for kids, you know..... `v'

I would recommend a sliiiiiiiightly smaller avi,... just so as not to call the wrong attention to yourself.  ^___^

Animation:  I wouldn't mind a beating moving heart either.  ^^

Holographic Microwaves:  Well, we're only able to see half the microwave, so we'd have to be especially creative of coming up with something that'll fit in that small footprint.  Then again, I've been seriously thinking shrinking the overall image just a taaaaaaad bit more to fit in more outlying details.

ME-tan roof design:  IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!  ^0^
Fufufu... and besides, we have oh-so-many Unix-tans around too.  I think they'd pay them to make appliances as austere and user-shooing as possible.  ^^;
(the Z series mainframe fridge, notwithstanding.... ^.^)

Pun characters:  Actually, there's already two up right now, me (the sausage) and the Captain (the cereal).  Told you you wouldn't get the references yet.  ^v^

I was also thinking of putting myself up on the fridge as one of those clip-on magnets.  But then,... you know.... already get accused of shameless self promotion a lot.  ^_______^

Oh, and I'm based off a very very very very very very very famous pig.  If you don't know who it is, for shaaaaaaaame.  `v'

Brain twitching:  Fans have wanted an OS-tan anime since the dawn of time.  ^___^
Ironically, the only ones who could safely feature in one are the Linux-tans, BSD-tans and any other system that's open sourced.  Otherwise, if the would-be anime were to get at least some widespread notoriety, you could bet that Microsoft and Apple legal teams would be all over the copyright-infringement feeding frenzy.  ^_________^;

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Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Techno the fox on January 25, 2008, 04:07:57 pm
Ahhhh, Glad to see you finally got an avatar Kisu-san.
And a brilliant one at that ^-^

QuoteOh, and I'm based off a very very very very very very very famous pig. If you don't know who it is, for shaaaaaaaame. `v'


Hmmm, the question is...If I pour cold water on you will you turn into a human of some sort?
Heheh

QuoteFans have wanted an OS-tan anime since the dawn of time. ^___^
Ironically, the only ones who could safely feature in one are the Linux-tans, BSD-tans and any other system that's open sourced. Otherwise, if the would-be anime were to get at least some widespread notoriety, you could bet that Microsoft and Apple legal teams would be all over the copyright-infringement feeding frenzy. ^_________^;


*Slowly backs away, hoping C-chan will forget the whole "Smiley Incident"*

QuoteI was also thinking of putting myself up on the fridge as one of those clip-on magnets. But then,... you know.... already get accused of shameless self promotion a lot. ^_______^


Leave some parody spots for me C-chan! XD
But really, Abraxas Brand eggs are A-go I shall start drawing soon!
I'm also sitting, watching, thinking of the perfect place to put one or more of my characters into a parody.
I was also thinking of putting Akuma-chan on the back of a milk carton.
Well, have you seen her recently? I haven't or mabye I'm just not looking in the right places. The only board on Nijiura that I actually know what it is, is the one that has "OS-tan" in the name.
But if she comes out of whatever hole she's fallen into, does that mean I get an extra month of winter?

Speaking from experience, Google's translator doesn't work on Nijiura or 2chan.
Also, Mcafee has taken a disliking to 2chan. Before my subscription ran out , whenever I'd go to Niji or 2chan siteadvisor would turn red and say something about 2chan distributing Spyware and PUPs (Potientally Unwanted Programs). Ah well, I still go there anyway nothing could keep me away from Nijiura.
Do any members from here hang out there? I could've sworn I saw some art drawn by OSC members posted there in the past.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 25, 2008, 05:04:09 pm
@Kiso: Hmmmm....how about a compromise between a futuristic hologram microwave and a command-line oven?

@C-Chan: Nice job on the plant. I might detail the oven/microwave if I have the chance. Somehow I want to put FCL-tan's hat in that oven @___@

I also sorta wanna draw a -tan. As a different document, of course, and maybe I'll do a simple outline of where she could go....

But I don't wanna forget...

Keep It Simple!

@Techno: I can't wait to see the AbraEggs! I wonder what would hatch out of 'em...

*thinks of Abra/FCL lovechild...or would that be lovechick*

*passes out cold*

And, yes, some of our forum members have posted to Nijura (or is that ++? I always get the two mixed up...)

QuoteFor shame, cause Shiba Inus are the best dogs in the world!!! ^v^


Them fightin' words when told to a Tibetan breeds fan :P

Shih tzus are especially beloved by me. For small dogs they certainly don't have the kind of neurotic attitude that is often associated with the Toy group.

Quote.....

That is, if your definition of a dog is actually a "Cat-Dog", cause that's what my beloved Shiba is. Intelligent and cunning, fast and agile, strong-willed and independent, graceful and elegant, proud and a fine gourmand. She don't need no stinking humans to survive, but her Highness does concede to allow me to be her Royal Scratcher and provider of provisions. She considers anything smaller than her edible, and is the terror of mice, squirrels and insects. Like the old saying, she rarely barks, but has a wolf's bite. ^____^

The fact that she's Japanese also helps blend well with my Anime collection. ^v^
(in fact, I name her after my favorite Japanese Singer,... won't say who it is, though... ^.^)

Here's a fantastic website (funny as hell too):

http://www.bravewolf.ca/shibainu.html


That site is funny...! Though Shiba's seem a bit to high-energy for me, I'd never be able to keep up with one :P

Cat-dog, eh? That sounds like one of my dogs (right down to the hating water and aloof attitude)...though my other girl is a lot more cuddly and people-oriented, and is outdoorsy and water-loving to boot (she's a sporting dog in a small, furry body)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 25, 2008, 07:11:18 pm
@Foxytech (Techno the Fox): Yes people... I know who that pig is based off. An fan can really be considered an actual anime/manga fan until they watch Ranma 1/2... no matter how many of the Dragon Ball series you have seen.

Oh and thank you Foxy for the avatar comment.

@Bella: Uhm... making the difference in technologies be more apparent than how it would be? That could work, I mean... if you think about it, DOS is to GUI what an oven is to a microwave oven... obvious evolution of technology.

@CC: Uhm, pattern along... wha...? You mean the plant, right? If so, it was a rather nice thing to make, more organic.

Mushy Stuff...
Hmm... you got a point... even though I still dislike it, I seem to tolerate.

Avatar Matters
Okay, I guess I'll follow your suggestion be hitting the resize factory soon... and maybe even the animation factory as well. But I guess I'll be getting to that by tomorrow, today I am too tired to be messing with raster images.

Pun Characters
Actually, that you say is object-based punning. What I meant was to make actual characters to pun on people. I hate Toshiaki... his existence is worth nothing in my eyes... and creating actual people (even if just for our projects) would give a different taste to the OS-tan world... even though not exactly the thing that would be called as influential, or even acceptable. I just thought of making something different than what people usually see, know what I mean?

OS-Tan Anime
Hmm... I think we can make an anime without getting out asses sued for it. How? Simple answers really, all you need to do is:

--| Copyrights: One's Greatest Ally and Enemy
Copyright your stuff without claiming full ownership of anything. You can do this by simply adding disclaimers. I guess that's what people do when they make parodies in Robot Chicken (aired Cartoon Network's Adult Swim segment).

Now, one might also want to reach out further and look towards copyrights of stuff already owned by someone else. You can take a lok at the rights they have and find out whether or not they allow use of stuff and even may give hints as to what can be done.

--| Credits: A Powerful Friend
Give credit where credit is due. If one doesn't claim full ownership of the characters, we might as well give credit to all sources that inspired the creation of the character (Microsoft, Apple, Nijiura, and any other places where designs may have been taken from).

--| Fincance: The (Double) Agent
Never use the art with commercial intentions. If we don't fully own it or have licenses that allow us to make commercial use of all the stuff that appears on the anime, this one is the important thing to do.  Sure, we can ask for donations in order to maintain a site or a hosting service to keep the thing available. And we can even pay people to work for us in making the anime. But that's about as much as we can do in terms of finance, asking for money to allow people to view the anime will make us easy target practice for the big company lawyers as well as any other people who get in to simply add up busing on us.

"How do you know this again Kiso?"
I actually am not sure about anything, but if people haven't been sued for making OS-tan fan-art (or even doujins) by now, I don't think there is much that would affect us if we tried making an actual anime. After all, anime is just another form of fan-art... one that's more complex and/or elaborate. We can simply call this out as a anime doujin if we commit to do it... even though most things except character names and some already made designs probably would be actually original stuff. But still, it is likely that we will not be attacked for making such stuff.

To even up the playing field, one can even include ads in the anime to allow commercialization of products in order to compensate for making use of their copyrighted stuff.

Whoever said "two wrongs don't make a right" was crazy... or... never came across meeting me. Heh-heh-heh-heh.

Funny thing how I happen to be that "Jack of all Trades" kind of guy, I guess I just happened to be in the right place at the right time... now I have the ability to test out how good I really can be at animating... even more because now I can make complex stuff.

@Everyone: Man... this is tough, I still have yet to finish up my suggestion stuff on standards for the FOSA project. But I promise that I will not let this go past tomorrow because we need to discuss this before we go official.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 25, 2008, 08:20:57 pm
QuoteHmmm, the question is...If I pour cold water on you will you turn into a human of some sort?
Heheh


Not...... quite......
But......
What happens when I get doused with cold water.... is classified.  ^___^;

QuoteBut really, Abraxas Brand eggs are A-go I shall start drawing soon!


Awesome blossom!  ^__^
Coupled with Bella-sama's FCL hat roast, and we have the lovely pair together in the same picture again (in spirit, anyway).

QuoteI was also thinking of putting Akuma-chan on the back of a milk carton.
Well, have you seen her recently? I haven't or mabye I'm just not looking in the right places. The only board on Nijiura that I actually know what it is, is the one that has "OS-tan" in the name.
But if she comes out of whatever hole she's fallen into, does that mean I get an extra month of winter?


Akuma who?  ^____^'

QuoteSpeaking from experience, Google's translator doesn't work on Nijiura or 2chan.


I use a translation service called Nifty to do most of my translation at ++.  Used to be Bestiland, but not they don't seem to work much anywhere.  ;'__';

Quote@Kiso: Hmmmm....how about a compromise between a futuristic hologram microwave and a command-line oven?


You mean like Compiz Fusion?  ^_____________^

*drum roll*

*laughs at own silly geek joke*

Quote@C-Chan: Nice job on the plant. I might detail the oven/microwave if I have the chance. Somehow I want to put FCL-tan's hat in that oven @___@


That I can't wait for.  ^v^
BTW, want me to detail how Pattern Along Paths work?
It takes a bit getting used to, but it produces very interesting results (and besides, I think it's improved a lot in version 0.46).  They describe it a little here in the 0.45 screenshots:

http://inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.45-patternalongpath.png

QuoteI also sorta wanna draw a -tan. As a different document, of course, and maybe I'll do a simple outline of where she could go....

But I don't wanna forget...

Keep It Simple!


Speaking of which, because the Source Art is already past the 1MB file upload limit, we might have to separate some things (such as objects) into a separate document, or at least agree that the main source file be kept in ZIP format for the time being.  Both are only temporary solutions, though, as it won't be long before even the ZIP grows too heavy to post.  Will need additional technical expertise from the admins on this.  ^___^

In the meantime, try to create standalone patches as much as possible (overhang plant #2 will be standalone, for example).

QuoteBut I don't wanna forget...

Keep It Simple!


I think we're having plenty of fun decorating the bare kitchen for now -- it could even be used as a backdrop for another image in the future in case we switch to another project during the Grand Opening.  Certainly if we do work on an OS-tan, it'd probably be easier to have it as a standalone character.  Even easier if it's already half-vectorized, but otherwise unfinished.

Quote@Techno: I can't wait to see the AbraEggs! I wonder what would hatch out of 'em...


Well of course, "CadabraEggs"!  `v'

Quote*thinks of Abra/FCL lovechild...or would that be lovechick*

*passes out cold*


*C-chan tosses self over Bella and faints*  ^______^

QuoteAnd, yes, some of our forum members have posted to Nijura (or is that ++? I always get the two mixed up...)


*points to Alfamille-san*

QuoteThat site is funny...! Though Shiba's seem a bit to high-energy for me, I'd never be able to keep up with one :P


Oh believe you and me,... if you're not eccentric enough for a very eccentric dog, better leaving them be.  My Shiba is obsessively clean, non-destructive, and very low maintenance in many areas, but by GAWD she's high maintenance when it comes to other animals, dogs, cats, children, people she doesn't seem to like.  If she were human, she'd be considered chemically unbalanced.  ^__________^;

QuoteCat-dog, eh? That sounds like one of my dogs (right down to the hating water and aloof attitude)...though my other girl is a lot more cuddly and people-oriented, and is outdoorsy and water-loving to boot (she's a sporting dog in a small, furry body)


*squeals with delight*

SISTER!!!!!!!  ^V^

*leaps to hug Bella*

Seriously, we could OT the thread to the ground with so many lovable stories about cute cuddly cat-dogs (although my Shiba also qualifies as a viscious huntress trapped inside a teddy bear's body).

Quote@CC: Uhm, pattern along... wha...? You mean the plant, right? If so, it was a rather nice thing to make, more organic.


But top-heavy, no?  Might go back in there tomorrow to shave off unnecessary nodes (not now, though Friday night after a hard week calls for much fun!).  ^___^

Check the pic above for guidelines on how to use Path Along Pattern (I'll call it "PAP").

QuoteActually, that you say is object-based punning. What I meant was to make actual characters to pun on people. I hate Toshiaki... his existence is worth nothing in my eyes... and creating actual people (even if just for our projects) would give a different taste to the OS-tan world... even though not exactly the thing that would be called as influential, or even acceptable. I just thought of making something different than what people usually see, know what I mean?


You checked out Thurosis' OS-tan Collections Comic yet?  ^_____________^

Plus I hate Toshiaki too, except in the Mac Manga and Aurora's Zerosanity comic.  There he's actually funny/useful.  ^v^

QuoteHmm... I think we can make an anime without getting out asses sued for it. How? Simple answers really, all you need to do is:

[list of reasons]


Course simpler still is to just avoid the hassle and base a complete original anime on completely free and different OSes that the Windows-centric world might not know exist, or realize they're actually quite cool.  Certainly would help bring more expore to our counterpart, FOSS.  ^.^

Admittedly. none of my ideas for mangas/dream animes are without at least some cameo of a proprietary OS-tan (such as a Windows-tan, a Mac-tan, or even my beloved Amiga).  In that respect, all I can say is that we might as well just go for it.  The reason no one's been sued (by a major company at least, although there has been infighting among OS-tan artists before) is because all the projects have been of relatively low scale.  It's probably more humble to assume that our own would-be anime would be of a similarly small scale as well, not unlike Infinity Zero-san's music video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSNy1aoyBtw

*squeals with joy at Amiga-sama's cameo*  ^___^

One thing I'm definitely against would be commercialization-anything.  I think there's more than enough ads circling all about our everyday lives.  Today my favorite stand vendor was using bags with an airline commercial, for crying out loud!  `v'

The only ads I wouldn't mind (and in fact, help pay for this forum) are for FOSS projects.  You'll often see them above, sprinkled amongst those infernal Google Ads.  ^___^
Speaking of which, may be time to scrounge scrounge around for a banner ad for Inkscape....  -v-

*starts searching*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Tsubashi on January 25, 2008, 10:07:37 pm
Oh... goodness....
This thread certainly took of quick, ne? It's going to take me a while to fully comprehend everything; I only just finished quick-reading the thread. ^v^;

Gomen, I don't have much time, since I'm sorta mooching WiFi off our corporate office here in NY, but I just wanted to say good job everyone! In all honesty, I think FOSA is the most brilliant idea I have ever seen put into action, and is working far better, far quicker than I had ever expected. Way to be!!!

Again, I'm really sorry if it seems I'm not responding to a lot. Quick answer: I'm not. If I have my way, I'll write a very long post when I fly home. Gomen nasai! ^.^

Quote from: Kiso-san--| Copyrights: One's Greatest Ally and Enemy
Copyright your stuff without claiming full ownership of anything. You can do this by simply adding disclaimers. I guess that's what people do when they make parodies in Robot Chicken (aired Cartoon Network's Adult Swim segment).


No, technically Senpai is entirely right. Due to the nature of the Windows -tan's design I fear that any inclusion of them in an anime would violate copyright laws, as the "Use of Microsoft Copyrighted Content" documents points out:

QuoteMicrosoft does not allow the use of its icons in advertising, in books and other printed matter, on clothing or other promotional items, in online and Internet locations, in software applications, in television programs, in commercials, in movies, or on videotape. Icons are not to be used as "artwork" or design elements.


Icon being "the thumbnail-size images [that] indicate a Microsoft product"

The Apple girls... maybe... Apple's legal documents leave a little more wiggle room, but given their previous overreactions to seemingly minor things, I wouldn't push the limits too much ^.^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kami-Tux on January 26, 2008, 05:47:36 am
I would like to be active here, but I have lots of things to do in real life...
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 26, 2008, 10:42:42 am
Hmm... good points you have there CC and Tsu-Tsu... copyright infringement is one b****h to watch out for. However, we can always create the characters and make designs changes so that we don't get sued for stuff. If it isn't copyrighted, branded, trademarked or anything like that, they can't sue.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 27, 2008, 02:46:44 am
Tsubashi:  YES!!!  His made his debut, and showers the project with TsuTsu goodness and wisdom and so forth.  ^___^

Penguin God:  Well as long as you pop in every once in a while, we'll count that as participation.

Kissu:  Patent laws are worse, but yeah would be nice if we didn't have so much stuff potentially stifling innovation.  However, if it ever comes down to making a Doors XP, or a Pear OSX, I'd rather keep them as secondary characters and make the free OS-tans the main ones.  ^.^

ALL;  Sorry, a bit late so I have to rush through all my posting tonight.  Couldn't work on the kitchen today, so I figured I'd sauce something I worked on for a previous project.  Consider it a little shameless self-promotion.... ^.^

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 27, 2008, 03:04:30 am
*comes in a skipping-ly playful walk*

“...robu, robu, robu no sei na no yo…”

*coughs*

Uhm... sorry peeps, that song is actually catchy...

After like 12,039,458,720,349,568,235,098,375 times of watching that video I came to realize that it would actually make for an awesome ending sequence to an OS-tan anime if one was ever made... it's so darn cute.

Also CC, how I see it... Amiga would be more of a minor character rather than being one to have a cameo appearance. I mean, she had a good a mount of screen time. And also, if you pay attention, she appears in that group of people of 16 people at the last short scene. Being among the “top 16” from about 30 characters that appeared, I would say that she at least has significance.

---  ---  ---   ---   ---

@CC: Well, that is a mighty good point there that you have, but it still makes use of stuff. But we can simply call them by their "code" names instead (Visbou, Chiivis-tan, Saseko, Homeko, Moseko, 2k-chan, etc.). All we need to make sure of is not making literal reference to copyrighted stuff.

But then again... can't we simply ask permission to use their copyrighted material? It's not like we're something to gain money out of it. And... it's just for "parody" purposes. I'm sure people can be considerable enough to allow us use of their copyrighted stuff... and it would be good publicity for them also.

But who knows? Guess the only exact way is to simply ask permission of use of the material.

---  ---  ---   ---   ---

Anyways, I made research on how to save space on our work. It turns out that compressed SVG file formats do work correctly, and they reduce file size quite significantly. However, none of them are viewable from a web browser so you might need to open them with Inkview in order to see the image.

These formats are:
Compressed Inkscape SVG (*.svgz)
Compressed Plain SVG (*.svgz)
Compressed Inkscape SVG With Media (*.zip)

Other formats I have yet to test, but I doubt their sizes will be low.

---  ---  ---   ---   ---

Note: The following is just a list of suggested standards for the project, and thus will contain stuff that may already be in use by people or may have already been stated. None the less, these are the things that I consider should be used as standards, not only to make it look “professional”, but to also improve the quality and productivity of our work.

[FILE NAMES]
Here I will explain what the standards for filenames should be. This is to keep track of the project’s development progress. That way, no one members of the FOSA team will have a version of the source art that is missing an addition or have a different feature.

Source Files
Source art should be named as “FOSA_<N>-<S>.<V>.<P>-<U>”.
Example: FOSA_Kitchen-0.2.1-CC

This Means What:
N = Name of the project.
Example: FOSA_Kitchen-X.X.X-KS

S = Status of the project’s progress, mainly to tell if the project is completed or not. This is represented by a number, and if this number is set higher than “0” (zero), it means the project is to be considered as finished. Every number would mean that the project has a variant and should not be considered equal or an improvement to the previous completed project.
Example: FOSA_Kitchen-1.X.X-KS and FOSA_Kitchen-2.X.X-KS would be two separate sets of the “FOSA_Kitchen” project.

V = Version of the project. The number given defines the level of detail or expansion that the project has gone under; the higher it is, the more complex and/or detailed the project is. Note that versions can go higher than “9” (nine)... as in... 10, 11, 12, and so on without limit. Also, this does not influence the status number unless the team decides otherwise.
Example: FOSA_Kitchen-X.167.X-KS

P = Patch level of the project. This is represented by a number, and the higher it goes, the closer to a new version it is. Very ten patches could be considered as a new version, but standards can be set to a higher number in order to set a better quality level.
Example: FOSA_Kitchen-X.X.8-KS

U = Updater of the project... as in the person that made the last patch of the project. This is represented by two or three letters to tell one person apart from another and should be kept quite short.
Example: FOSA_Kitchen-X.X.X-KS[/c]

Patch Files
Independent patches should be named as “FOSA-Patch_<Name>”.
Example: FOSA-Patch_Oven

This Means What:
<Name> = Name of the project. This would be represented by the thing as is being added or updated by this patch into the source art. You can also add numbers

[PROJECT FORMATTING]
Here I will explain the standards of how the project should be dealt with. This is to help keep the productivity and quality of the project at a high leveled standard.

File Format
As a common standard for this project, I suggest that we make use of any of the compressed file formats that the software provides. I recommend making use of the “Compressed Inkscape SVG” format; it doesn’t bring the file size to an absolute minimum, but it actually reaches very close to it. This way we will not waste anytime between download and edition by having to take extra steps to save the file in the computer’s memory and then decompress it in order to be able to edit it, and at the same time one can save the “Inkscape Quality” of the SVG file.

Layering:
All projects should have the following layers: Concept, Characters, Objects, Scenery, Background, among others that may be added as preference and/or need for them come. This would help reduce the amount of material that is place under one given layer and creates a user-friendly environment to work under.

This Means What:
Concept - Here we can simply tell both in words and imagery what is wanted, needed, suggested for change in the project. This is a top-level layer and may to be under any other layer. A requirement for this layer is for it to have an opacity level (a.k.a. transparency) of 75% at the least. That ways it will not cover up stuff.

Characters â€" All characters will be placed in these layers (understatement). Any character layers would require being on top of scenery and object layers to avoid conflicts. However, they can also be under other scenery and object layers as needed... because characters aren’t always fully visible.

Objects â€" Here is where any objects that the character may interact with will be placed. If the character is going to take the object or make a complex interaction with the object and can’t be done under the current conditions, then it might then be moved to the character layer.

Scenery â€" Here all stuff that will be left untouched or for some reason can’t be interacted with in any other way than simply it being in there for the character to look at, step/sit on.

Background â€" This is the bottom most layer always, and here is where anything that the character can’t touch or interact with in any way at all except maybe looking at it. Examples may be a far away mountain, the star-filled night sky, the sun and the moon... just to say a few.

Patches:
There are a few things that I think would help when it comes to patching the source art.

Modifying the Source â€" If people want to make an addition or modification of the source file, state it before hand, that way people can be away that there may be something different in the source art, also to avoid people doing the same job as the person who intended to do it in the first place. Also, when uploading the patched source art, make sure to tell the filename of the last source art so that others know for sure what might be in the file and what might not. This is to avoid loss of content and having to work over changes again.

Miscellaneous Additions â€" If people want to make additions such as cameos, things for characters to use, or anything that may hold no exact significance to the overall goal of the project, then these should be brought up separately and be kept in a separate file until they come of use to the rest of the project. This project file would be called something like “FOSA_Misc-Objects” or something to reflect on it being a storage file and let people know what is in it.

Improving Techniques
We need to improve our techniques in order to increase the initial quality of the concept work done as well as reduce the amount of work being done in order to fix errors. Among these things we can include:

Using The Grid â€" If you clink on “View” on the file menu, you will note that there is the word “Grid” in the dropdown menu that will appear. If you click on it, gridlines will appear on the project. This would significantly help people when making perfectly vertical and horizontal lines as default file settings are set so that nodes (That’s the name of the dots, right?) stick to the many grid intersections that there are. Angles will be easily maintained this way also, given the person knows how angles are found (horizon and vanishing point... anyone?). In general, this is the thing you need if you want to make any kind of architecture or engineering stuff (rooms, boxes, tables, chairs, plates, tiles… list goes on) and believe me, it does become indispensable once you realize the full potential it has.
((Note: So far, I have not used the grid for the FOSA project. However, I have used it for other stuff on Inkscape, though mainly just to mess around with it.))

Defining The Angle â€" If we make guides to define the camera angle we can help increase the chances Remember me mentioning “vanishing point” and “horizon” just now? Well, that is used to define angles. If one is set up, people will have much trouble with making stuff “miss-angled”. I am sure that most of you know how to do this, but if you don’ I guess I might end up having to make a guide for it or link you to guides on how to properly define angle view via horizon and vanishing point.

So... what you guys think about that?
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 27, 2008, 03:14:36 am
*C-chan's brain explodes*  GAAAH!!  Either you guys are on earlier time zones, or I'm not the only one staying this late.  T___T;

Sorry you caught me sleep-deprived.  I'll return later to answer all that.  ^.^

*flops on keyboard*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 27, 2008, 03:17:46 am
Actually CC... I am sleep deprived also. But I wanted to keep my word on not letting this get past from yesterday, even though I did due to me messing with lots of stuff.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 27, 2008, 11:38:37 am
@Kiso and Tsubashi: An OS-tan anime has always been the impossible dream as it were; Besides the rabid corporate lawyer teams, spectacular amounts of work it would take, etc., I don't think I could just focus on one group (IE, the Windozez, Linuxes, or Vintage-tans). When you look at the entire OS-tan world picture, I think it would be far too complex to let "everyone have a piece of the pie"....

@ C-Chan:

Ooooh, an EeePC :P

QuoteOh believe you and me,... if you're not eccentric enough for a very eccentric dog, better leaving them be. My Shiba is obsessively clean, non-destructive, and very low maintenance in many areas, but by GAWD she's high maintenance when it comes to other animals, dogs, cats, children, people she doesn't seem to like. If she were human, she'd be considered chemically unbalanced. ^__________^;


Heehee....I guess my dogs are like me in that 80% of the time they're calm and sensible, and the other part of the time they're crazy XD
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 27, 2008, 09:58:01 pm
FYI,... after my responses here and in one remaining thread, I'll work on getting Plant #2 added, but that's about all for the day.  I have to prioritize Operation "Bella Boost", and get it done before month's end.  ^___^

QuoteOh... goodness....
This thread certainly took of quick, ne? It's going to take me a while to fully comprehend everything; I only just finished quick-reading the thread. ^v^;


Believe-you-and-me, TsuTsu-dono (that's catchy!  ^^), we've accumulated so much writing on this thread, that pretty soon the FOSA initiation will be like a breath of fresh air.  ^____^

QuoteIn all honesty, I think FOSA is the most brilliant idea I have ever seen put into action, and is working far better, far quicker than I had ever expected. Way to be!!!


Thank you, TsuTsu-dono.  ^^
I certainly was impressed myself, although given the Pilot Run aspect of the FOSA kitchen, I'm not surprised if seeding has tapered off a bit in the last few days.  Our first project upon FOSA deployment will undoubtedly be something with a more definable goal -- such as an OS-tan character with a definable shape that people can work towards.

Quote*comes in a skipping-ly playful walk*

“...robu, robu, robu no sei na no yo…”

*coughs*

Uhm... sorry peeps, that song is actually catchy...

After like 12,039,458,720,349,568,235,098,375 times of watching that video I came to realize that it would actually make for an awesome ending sequence to an OS-tan anime if one was ever made... it's so darn cute.


Plus the characters just seem to work, don't they?  ^___^
It's sad that their legendary popularity achieved here in OSC did not translate at all in the Western imageboards,... in my opinion, I think their cookie-cutter simplicity is what gives them their charm, and that the true originality is in how Infinity-san EMPLOYED them.  Beauty more in the delivery than the actual details.  ^.^

BTW, if you want to try your hand at Infinity-style minis, you do know I made some cheap-knockoffs available for people to work with.... ^.^

http://ostan-collections.net/downloads.php?view=detail&id=90
http://ostan-collections.net/downloads.php?view=detail&id=94

QuoteAlso CC, how I see it... Amiga would be more of a minor character rather than being one to have a cameo appearance. I mean, she had a good a mount of screen time. And also, if you pay attention, she appears in that group of people of 16 people at the last short scene. Being among the “top 16” from about 30 characters that appeared, I would say that she at least has significance.


Fufu... dontcha think?  ^__^
Actually, Amiga-chan even had her own entry in the List of OS-tans Wikipedia article for a while,... that is, before they destroyed it.  But I'm definitely grateful for Infinity-san to have immortalized her in the video.  ^.^

BTW, quick trivia question:  you do know why I'm especially fond of Amiga-san, no?  ^____^

(http://ostan-collections.net/wiki/images/7/74/Amiga.gif)

Quote@CC: Well, that is a mighty good point there that you have, but it still makes use of stuff. But we can simply call them by their "code" names instead (Visbou, Chiivis-tan, Saseko, Homeko, Moseko, 2k-chan, etc.). All we need to make sure of is not making literal reference to copyrighted stuff.

But then again... can't we simply ask permission to use their copyrighted material? It's not like we're something to gain money out of it. And... it's just for "parody" purposes. I'm sure people can be considerable enough to allow us use of their copyrighted stuff... and it would be good publicity for them also.

But who knows? Guess the only exact way is to simply ask permission of use of the material.


Well,.... i believe the last time someone "asked" GAINAX to do something of hardly-questionable legality, that ended up rocking the boat so to speak.  ^^;

Sure, you seem invigorated to ask those people for X,Y and Z, and by all means, if at the time you feel this is unwarranted, I'll always encourage you to do the most lawful thing.

But what I'm trying to get at it is simple:  Is there any incentive to go through all that trouble?

Should I (and others who think like me) forfeit my heard-earned valuable time -- and bend over backwards to comply with their greedy laws to boot -- just to give more free promotion to some company that already rakes in BILLIONS of US dollars a year?  And is a convicted monopolist?  And has encouraged a culture of terrible e-Waste?  And destroys many startup companies that so much as smell like they would be a threat?  And steals the work of volunteer FOSS developers, patents them as their own, and then turns around and intimidates the original developer community with them?  AND is actively destroying attempts for people to self-service and expand their horizons beyond just knowledge of Word, Excel and 3D games?  AND ultimately strives to control everything I do, and not allow me the luxury of owning anything (not even the copy of Windows XP I think I own)?  

Or....

Would I rather spend it teaching people about other choices they may not be aware of?  If, for example, I made a charming manga about an Inkscape-tan that proves mildly popular, that would not only encourage more people to realize that there's more out there besides Adobe Illustrator, but it could ultimately infuse the Inkscape community with more badly-needed exposure and developers and testers and language translators and etc, etc, etc.  And maybe the resulting extra competition would also force Adobe to shape up (=stop bloating up their latest software) or ship out.

A true win-win situation for everyone, and best of all.... 100% legal and altruistic AND original (which means no one could accuse us of being Deja Vu, either).  ^^

Like I said, it's up to you where you want to devote your time and energy to.  But speaking only for myself, I chose my path long ago and love it too much to reconsider.  ^___^

QuoteAnyways, I made research on how to save space on our work. It turns out that compressed SVG file formats do work correctly, and they reduce file size quite significantly. However, none of them are viewable from a web browser so you might need to open them with Inkview in order to see the image.

These formats are:
Compressed Inkscape SVG (*.svgz)
Compressed Plain SVG (*.svgz)
Compressed Inkscape SVG With Media (*.zip)

Other formats I have yet to test, but I doubt their sizes will be low.


Good work!  ^^

I think the best one would be Compressed Inkscape SVG With Media.  Not just because of the familiarity, but also because the forum would have to be modified again to accept ".svgz" files as upload options.  ^^

*keeps typing*

Added after 6 minutes:

Quote[FILE NAMES]
Here I will explain what the standards for filenames should be. This is to keep track of the project’s development progress. That way, no one members of the FOSA team will have a version of the source art that is missing an addition or have a different feature.


I definitely love the naming scheme, if only because it strikes a good compromise between what you wrote earlier and Nejin-san's proosals.  

so you can bet that has my C-chan Seal of Approval!  ^__^

In theory, then, I should call my EeePC file "FOSA-Patch_EeePC".

Added after 15 minutes:

Quote[PROJECT FORMATTING]
Here I will explain the standards of how the project should be dealt with. This is to help keep the productivity and quality of the project at a high leveled standard.


On second thought, you're right the Inkscape ZIP feature doesn't seem to compress anything.  O___o

But then we're right back to the problem of uploading compressed svgs.  This may not be an issue in the future, based on work by TsuTsu-dono.  ^___^

In the meantime, we may have no choice but to either use manual zip files (if "svgz" doesn't work) or have the artwork broken up between two different source files.

Layering scheme I agree with.  And we already have that halfway setup in the FOSA_kitchen anyway, so we'll consider it a natural evolutionary trend of FOSA.  ^___^

QuotePatches:
There are a few things that I think would help when it comes to patching the source art.


Again, it's possible that we'll have a new system in place specifically designed to better keep track of version numbers and stuff.  That, I'm sure, would be monumentally clearer than sifting through dozens of forum pages.  ^.^;

QuoteImproving Techniques
We need to improve our techniques in order to increase the initial quality of the concept work done as well as reduce the amount of work being done in order to fix errors. Among these things we can include:


Technique improvement will come naturally, believe me.  But I think that when you make suggestions like the ones you posed, they help in creating an equally-important learning environment.  In much the same way I posted an explanation of Pattern Along Path in the "Concepts" layer, so too could you post up mock guide angles and vanishing points for others after you to base themselves with.

Remember, in FOSA, all user input counts, so definitely feel free to make your voice heard.  ^___^

Added after 5 minutes:

QuoteAn OS-tan anime has always been the impossible dream as it were; Besides the rabid corporate lawyer teams, spectacular amounts of work it would take, etc., I don't think I could just focus on one group (IE, the Windozez, Linuxes, or Vintage-tans). When you look at the entire OS-tan world picture, I think it would be far too complex to let "everyone have a piece of the pie"....


That's another reason why I've lately leaned more towards comic development then in the animation projects I had hoped to work on, such as this long-forgotten thing:

http://ostan-collections.net/viewtopic.php?p=9745&search_id=518134248#9745

The infrastructure to create a full-length Anime is daunting and potentially self-depleting, but a Manga work can achieve the same story impact and still be at least 500% more feasible to the average person.

Quote@ C-Chan:

Ooooh, an EeePC :P


Told you it was shameless self-promotion.  ^^

Added after 2 hours 3 minutes:

Okay, plant #2 ready.  Cut down on a lot of needless shapes, although it's still pretty large.  

Aw well, such is the cost of buying "organic".  ^_________^

*laughs at own bad joke*

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 28, 2008, 08:25:02 am
QuoteWell,.... i believe the last time someone "asked" GAINAX to do something of hardly-questionable legality, that ended up rocking the boat so to speak. ^^;

Sure, you seem invigorated to ask those people for X,Y and Z, and by all means, if at the time you feel this is unwarranted, I'll always encourage you to do the most lawful thing.

But what I'm trying to get at it is simple: Is there any incentive to go through all that trouble?

Should I (and others who think like me) forfeit my heard-earned valuable time -- and bend over backwards to comply with their greedy laws to boot -- just to give more free promotion to some company that already rakes in BILLIONS of US dollars a year? And is a convicted monopolist? And has encouraged a culture of terrible e-Waste? And destroys many startup companies that so much as smell like they would be a threat? And steals the work of volunteer FOSS developers, patents them as their own, and then turns around and intimidates the original developer community with them? AND is actively destroying attempts for people to self-service and expand their horizons beyond just knowledge of Word, Excel and 3D games? AND ultimately strives to control everything I do, and not allow me the luxury of owning anything (not even the copy of Windows XP I think I own)?

Or....

Would I rather spend it teaching people about other choices they may not be aware of? If, for example, I made a charming manga about an Inkscape-tan that proves mildly popular, that would not only encourage more people to realize that there's more out there besides Adobe Illustrator, but it could ultimately infuse the Inkscape community with more badly-needed exposure and developers and testers and language translators and etc, etc, etc. And maybe the resulting extra competition would also force Adobe to shape up (=stop bloating up their latest software) or ship out.

A true win-win situation for everyone, and best of all.... 100% legal and altruistic AND original (which means no one could accuse us of being Deja Vu, either). ^^

Like I said, it's up to you where you want to devote your time and energy to. But speaking only for myself, I chose my path long ago and love it too much to reconsider. ^___^


Well, one can always go either (legal, illegal, or questionable) way. However, the true factor in all of this (personification of software/hardware/whatever) is acceptance... if there is no acceptance, it never grows popular. Then there's also that thing of not being advertised enough to grow wildly popular (this translates to an average person in the real or OS-tan world, usually being looked down upon by the more popular people at the top of the mountain) which keeps them as told of the smart searchers or the casual referred people. And yes, I know Gimp may be an exception to this, and maybe a few others that have been given given advertisement from major companies.

Oh and I hear ya' on that one thing... originality and legality would be the great thing... being "Deja Vu" is not going to work well... nor as one would prefer.

As for my path... I don't really have a path... I'm indifferent that way.

- - - - - - - - -

As for the proposal made... I guess if it's all good with you there is not much to be done except that of simply have it for implementation.

Before I forget, remember that definitions thing you made in the first page... you should put that in the first post so that it isn't missed by people who read the thread for the first time... just saying though.

- - - - - - - - -

Hmm... woah... that plant sure takes in size as much as XP-tan takes in food into her.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 28, 2008, 04:05:04 pm
Fufu....

There's another artist on this board with a fascination for Windows 3.1-sama.  During our first and last collaborative project, we ended up disagreeing about a lot of things.  But one thing that we did agree on was to do artwork well (or in my case, fast), and not feel pressured to try and enter our creations in some weird popularity contest.  

First off, the fact that we're not Japanese artists already relegates us to a "niche" market of sorts.  Secondly, the nature of the people attracted to temporary internet memes may not offer much in the way of staying power.  When the Windows XP startup YouTube video appeared, we had a flood of about 200 people signing up to this board asking one of two things:

A)  Where can they download the startup program [despite that it didn't exist]?
B)  Where are the boobs?

Not finding the first one, and not caring to post enough to get the second, they left and forced poor TsuTsu-dono to eventually purge about 200 or more inactive accounts.  

But most importantly of all,... I don't know about you, but I find an awful lot wrong with how we conduct ourselves in this world, and I feel I'd lose my right to complain about it if I don't do my small part to put a stop to it.

Believe me, companies are experts in acceptance, popularity and advertisement.  They have entire marketing and PR divisions at their disposal to find out which combination of product elements or marketing decisions will sell a product fast and furiously.  They can make talentless-hacks into pop stars, wooden actors into movie stars, and corrosive cleaning fluid into a soft drink.  By the time people get bored with one product (which is happening quicker and quicker), they'll switch to something else.  But the end goal ultimately is not just to make a quick profit, but to lock in the consumers to ensure a continuous revenue stream of some kind -- and this involves a certain level of conditioning.  When they teach people, through repetition and suggestive advertising, to salivate at a triple-decker hamburger, feel the unconditional urge to replace their car each year, or pay illegal taxes, they start essentially fabricating their own popularity and acceptance.  Couple this with a simultaneous campaign to ridicule, villify, or ostracize people who chose to think outside the box, and the consumer is essentially stripped of the ability to think freely.

That's why I can't possibly trust levels of popularity until I have checked and rechecked if the popularity is well-deserved, and in most cases it's not.  So why keep propping up this dream, when I can take root, and start something original and empowering to the user/viewer?  Sure, I won't get the same massive popularity, but in return for my time investment I do get to have 3 very important things:

1)  Education -- because contrary to popular opinion, learning is cool, and sharing that with others is even cooler.
2)  Choice -- because monopolies won't disappear, and despair won't end, until people realize that choices exist.
3)  Peace -- both moral, and also physical.  Do you know how tiring it would be to churn out all those Vistan drawings each week?  I doubt I'd last more than a month....  ^_____^;

I pursued this in OSC, and did in fact help establish a small but strong community that dares to be different, creates new and original OS-tans, and researches high and low about computer history among many other things.  We've had people share drawing skills, perform teamwork, learn japanese, offer technical support, draft professionally-written proposals to improve FOSA...

*stares at you*

...We've had people ousted from the more mainstream imageboards come here, and offer appreciation for having their voices be heard, even if it meant just proposing alternative Vistan designs.  We've even had Japanese artists offer their appreciation for some of the works we created, despite the admonishment of our western counterparts.  And of course, we've had at least the beginnings of a coordinated and revolutionary team effort, which would be impossible under a more mainstream paradigm.

Now I think you know where the CC is coming from, and why I absolutely must insist you dig even harder and deeper if you really want to do something that no one's ever done before.  In creating something that's new -- and above all free from the influences of our everyday lives -- I think that helps enrich anyone's soul further.  When you help out other people struggling to do the same, I think it helps chip away at a system set in place to take that away from us.  And keep in mind that that doesn't apply just to art, but to writing, music, farming, engineering, crafts, hobbies, etc -- all the things that really make life worth living, and that a lot of people have brushed off for very reasons not all their own.  ^__^

QuoteAs for the proposal made... I guess if it's all good with you there is not much to be done except that of simply have it for implementation.

Before I forget, remember that definitions thing you made in the first page... you should put that in the first post so that it isn't missed by people who read the thread for the first time... just saying though.


Actually, I haven't put my guidelines on the first post either, but not sure if I will do it for the Preamble -- probably for the initiation instead.

My impression so far about FOSA is that it does work, but that forum threads are completely ill-suited to hold something this large.  I'm therefore calling an end to the Pilot Run now,... not because it failed (on the contary, it succeeded beyond my wildest dreams), but because we physically can't continue due to current technical limitations and a major text bottleneck that's formed.  

Feel free to keep adding to it if you want to practice with Inkscape -- I will still be around to answer questions.

But officially, I want to hold off until we can reconvene again in February, hopefully in a specialized page if possible.


QuoteHmm... woah... that plant sure takes in size as much as XP-tan takes in food into her.


In the end, pattern fills are the most efficient way to mimic organic objects -- but clearly, Pattern Along Path is the most realistic.  I'd say that particular experiment was a success.  ^^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Techno the fox on January 28, 2008, 07:14:47 pm
Quote from: "C-chan"Akuma who? ^____^'


Akuma Gaoru of course.

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s240/saturn_the_hedgehog/Quick%20Images/Akuma.png)

I may have more of her, I'll have to dig around in my computer some.

As to this whole Copyright thing, none of the current Os-tans' design is really copyright infringing. They could easily pass as ordinary girls, 2K's shirt, 95's bow, and Emuii's badge come dangerously close though.
The problem I really see is their names, obviously we can't make an anime with "Windows ME-tan" and expect it to make it to the mainstream media without getting our @$$es sued.
A possible way to go around this is to just call them by their nicknames Emuii, 2K, Hacchan, Saba, Ect. But still, I'd rather not take any chances.

We could ask microsoft permission, but C-chan you do have a good point there.

My opinion is this:

When I first saw "Free and Open Sourced Anime" I thought it was an anime with the open sourced OS-tans being the main characters.
And that's perhaps the best Idea yet, the windows-tans have had several comics from Nijiura, 2chan, Deja Vu, and various other places based on them, I think they've gotten enough attention already.

By making the main characters  Open Sourced Oses, we won't run any risk of a lawsuit, and mabye we may just bring a few Open Sourced Oses into the light. Educate people about these Oses, and yes, there is more out there than Apple and Micro$oft.


With the number of people around here who use Inkscape, I'm really surprised no one's made an Inkscape-tan yet.

With all that being said, someone needs to pick a few Open Sourced Oses to be the main characters.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 28, 2008, 07:23:04 pm
Well the "Anime" part of the title was really just to distinguish it from "Art", but no real intention was there to actually make it a full-blown Anime.  In theory its' possible,... but not as a forum thread.  ^___^;

Similarly, the copyright issue was brought up IN THE EVENT a full length anime was created that gain some sort of notoriety.   Fanfics and fanart, I doubt, are of much scale to cause any problems.  Then again, if you get used to drawing FOSS-tans, then you'd never have to worry about that ever (aside from the whole education thing, since FOSS projects really do deserve more exposure).  -v-

Believe you and me, I'd love to do an Inkscape-tan.  Problem is,.... I draw a complete blank whenever I try to brainstorm concepts.

I don't know whether to make her a mountaineer or a calligraphist, or what....

But I'll save that for another thread.  ^__^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 28, 2008, 07:37:34 pm
Well said, CC, and I totally agree with you! I'll admit that I've never quite cared if the world accepted my artwork; the one person whom I most want approval from is myself. I guess it's also been a way for me to further explore different OSs and combine this with my love of drawing. I guess it's also good that I, and we, may be bringing a bit more exposure to old OSs that are all but dead or forgotten...

About the pilot run, it succeeded. Honestly, I didn't know how it'd work out, but I think this shows we can work together and get something done. In the future we may have to do layers as separate documents, and combine them into one finished picture or something like that..

As for the Inkscape-tan...someone's already done one on DeviantArt...

(http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs20/i/2007/287/0/3/Inkscape_tan_v_2_by_bwansy.jpg)
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 28, 2008, 07:55:22 pm
QuoteWell said, CC, and I totally agree with you! I'll admit that I've never quite cared if the world accepted my artwork; the one person whom I most want approval from is myself. I guess it's also been a way for me to further explore different OSs and combine this with my love of drawing. I guess it's also good that I, and we, may be bringing a bit more exposure to old OSs that are all but dead or forgotten...


Thank you, Bella-sama.  ^^
And yes, I nearly forgot,... aside from FOSS projects, we also actively encourage remembrance of legacy systems that helped shape the world we live in today.  We'll always hold the likes of VMS, Multics, and Amiga in our hearts now.  ^___^

QuoteAbout the pilot run, it succeeded. Honestly, I didn't know how it'd work out, but I think this shows we can work together and get something done. In the future we may have to do layers as separate documents, and combine them into one finished picture or something like that..


Yeah, once we have a good infrastructure in place, I think we can experiment with all kinds of different approaches.  In the meantime, while we get that set up, let's go ahead and hone individual team efforts.  ^^

QuoteAs for the Inkscape-tan...someone's already done one on DeviantArt...


WAIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  AWESOME FIND!!!!!!!!!!!  ^V^
Sufficiently Moe,... Pigtails,... Mountains,... Ink.... Monochromatic appearance + colors,....

Yeah, she not only has the full package of references, but she saves me a whole lot of trouble too!!  ^___^

Three things to do going forward:

1)  Load her up in the Gallery
2)  Save a spot in the Wiki for her
3)  FANART!!!!!!!!!!  ^V^

*C-chan wags tail with excitement*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 29, 2008, 07:42:46 am
PAP Palnt
Now -that- is what I call art... but then again... art is art wherever you see it. Still, heavy artwork... both literally and figuratively. *thumbs up*

--- --- --- --- ---

@Bella: If only you knew that I am like that... I don't really care who likes it, I draw what I feel like drawing. If I don't like what I do... I never get to complete it, or won't like the work no matter how much other people think it is good or whatever.

@CC: I will not answer most of that stuff because I do not want this thread to turn into a flame war or [software/stuff]-bashing or something similarly uncalled for... we are all here for the art, if we can agree on that... there's no need to care about people's thoughts and preferences unless it involves they choosing their environment and the tasks they do.

However, I will say that I am as good a defender of software as well as a good disser/basher/flamer/whatev of one... I mean, I have proprietary software that I like more than GNU ones... but I also have GNU stuff that I like more than proprietary. I got my hands on Autodesk 3DS Max, because people said it was the best thing to ever come out... until I got my hands on Lightwave 3D, its non-image based GUI was much more intuitive to me than 3DS ever was... so I shoved my mouse up that software's behind and booted it off my PC. Then along came Blender 3D... the software has by far a lost of features and stuff I wanted that weren't available in LW... and I liked it a lot... very easy to use (contrary to most people who say it isn't, no good 3D software is easy to use on the first tries). But the program was too powerful for my laptop (I couldn't create complex stuff without making my system go slow and a times simply crash the Blender program).

So... I simply kept going with Lightwave because it was more system-friendly than it's somewhat more superior GNU counterpart.

--- --- --- --- ---

Inkscape-tan
Wow... I was going to do one of that as my second project to the Vistan sisters... I was horribly beat in terms of timing. Oh well there a lot of fish in the WWW to make tans out of.

Anyone ever thought about OpenOffice.org or...?

*keeps shut before he gives to many ideas for drawings and ends up doing nothing new and "innovative" (not sure about being innovative)*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 29, 2008, 10:03:01 am
I while ago I was somewhat "commissioned" to do an OpenOffice-tan, which I insisted actually be a full suite of OpenOffice-tans (Writer-tan, Calc-tan, Impress-tan, Draw-tan, Base-tan, Math-tan).  

As you might have noticed, that particular project has been delayed indefinitely.  Certainly wouldn't mind a taker if you're interested.

Added after 33 minutes:

QuoteIf only you knew that I am like that... I don't really care who likes it, I draw what I feel like drawing. If I don't like what I do... I never get to complete it, or won't like the work no matter how much other people think it is good or whatever.


BTW, sorry if does sound like I'm flying in the face of everything you truly stand for deep down inside.  Believe me, I know how that feels.  

However, do try and put yourselves in our shoes.  You've been a good contributor and a great "anglist" (is what I'm calling you), but in all honesty I barely know you and almost 80% of everything you've said in the last couple of posts seems to fly in the face of what most of us stand for here.  I'm not sure just how acquainted you are with the OSC culture -- but as with any culture, it's in your best interest to learn as much about it beforehand before immersing yourself in it.

Otherwise, you'll end up literally and figuratively with "culture shock".

I'm a strong believer in the Golden Rule, "Do onto others as you want others to do onto you".  Do everything in your power to appreciate our work, and we'll do everything in our power to appreciate yours.  That's worked well for over a year now, to the point where I myself have drawn well over a dozen Windows-tans to honor the interests of my peers.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 29, 2008, 11:31:07 am
The O3 Team
Actually... I thought of that also... your idea of a team of Software-tans to represent the multiple programs that O3 offers. I guess they'd be one of the best friends of the Unix family of tans... If I thought about it that way... lol

The Golden Rule
You know... I agree with that uhm... golden rule (though I know it as "Don't do to other's what you would not like to be done to you.") ... and quite honestly, I appreciate your (everyone's) work. If I were to say... I guess I should be grateful to you (CC) for leading me to Inkscape even. I have seen your work and found more than what I intended to come look for. I had no idea that open sourced tans existed until i arrived at the site, about a week before I joined (yes, The Kiss read up on some stuff before joining mainly this board and the one on top of this one).

I had stated before that I prefered to draw original characters rather than the ones that are famous... kind of the reason why I wanted to draw Vistans instead (though now taking reference of already existent ones) of other MS-tans or Mac-tans... and then there's the possibility of making(drawing/illustrating/sculpting/whatever) even more original tans with the still "untouched" softwares like O3... even in a world that purely fan-based I chosen to go with something that is uniquely of my own design (again, tentative exception is Vistan) over the desire to draw an already settled-down character.

"Culture Shock"?
Uhm... I don't know what that phrase means... but I guess I can leave it undefined. I don't really want to know how much close to it I am.

Hmm... final note... I think.
Can we simply lay off the rather off-topic talk? I mean, like I said before... I don't want to drive off the thread from it's real intent. If you ever wanted to discuss things like these... a debate or talk thread can always be opened up on matters such as the ones (I think) this current coversation is based on.

....

Hmm... llevar la fiesta en paz es dificil cuando se es totalmente neutral o indiferente al mundo que te rodea.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 29, 2008, 12:11:34 pm
No need to, I think all outstanding matters are settled.  Also, the Pilot Run is done, so the FOSA Preamble has served its purpose -- once the FOSA site is set up, we can retire this thread for good.  ^^

You seem to me like  a fine and reasonable person, so why don't you try out some other threads in the meantime,...?  Give you time to soak in more information and deal with other personalities besides this CC guy?  ^__~

Creeame que me da cosa que te quedes enserado aqui en un solo lugar, debatiendo con un cochinito!  No me suena ni lo mas minimamente saludable!  ^v^

*laughs at own bad joke*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 29, 2008, 04:44:31 pm
Uhm... one word... "multitask". *does that a lot*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 29, 2008, 05:18:32 pm
My stand: We should try and use art, and this project especially, as a unifying medium. It doesn't matter what OS you like or your views, if you can bring something...anything...and are willing to learn and challenge yourself, then I think this is a great project for you. :)

That said, I can see where Kiso's coming from; I mean, I'm probably one of the forum members here most interested in designing -tans for ancient OSs; I'm not a Windows fan by any stretch of the imagination, and almost exclusively draw new OS-tans, yet my first OS-tan pieces were almost exclusively fanarts of Windows-tans (including...*gasp* two Vistans!) and Mac-tans, with the occasional Distro-tan. Only after I felt comfortable with my artwork, did I attempt to personify more obscure or undrawn OSs...

As for the OpenOffice-tan, I know Siya did a RedOffice-tan...but if you've got some ideas, I'd love to hear them! Though the "OS-tan conjecture" thread is really the best place to throw around ideas for -tans...
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 29, 2008, 05:33:13 pm
Well Beauty (yes... Beauty instead of Bella)... I don't know squat about O3 other than it being quite the threat to MSO (Microsoft Office) software... in that sense, they would be not so much different than their proprietary counterparts. However, I would have to test it for myself in order to get a clear picture of what this officie suite can really dish out.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 29, 2008, 07:24:58 pm
Oy, I feel like we're moving backwards, not forwards.  -___-

Okay, we have been discussing this for near 3 pages now, and while I don't want to stretch it out further than it has, it's not really off-topic since it still ties directly with what I'm trying to establish with FOSA.  That being said,... I understand I may not be always be clear about what I say, because I've grown used to people around me knowing what I say and filtering out the jokes from the more serious matters, so I'll proceed to summarize my position very slowly, very calmly, and devoid of nonsense....

I made it a point in my preamble to say that animation is "theoretically" possible for a very specific reason.  The system I had designed for still images is meant to be as unintrusive and simple as possible.  You have one single program you can all use, only 1 hour to work on said contribution, and complete freedom to draw what you want.  Yes, it's meant to establish teamwork and unity, just as long as people adhere to it as a simple and fun pastime.

However, this does not translate well with more complicated material, such as a game or an animation.  A timeline is required, specialized software is required (and in some cases even purchased), and some scheduling/delegation would be necessary.  Add to that the fact that a substantially greater level of team cohesion has to exist in order to prevent the project from disintegrating, as well as all the hundreds of man-hours and training needed to complete something of this scale, and you have in your hands something that is inherently intrusive to the lives of the participants.

Not to say we can't do it.  Clearly there are lots of people who work on things like these.  But ask yourselves this....

If you're going to be working on a complex project such as an animation or game,... AND you're aiming to garner it some kind of worldwide exposure as has been suggested... then I RECOMMEND that you stick with something that's both safe, useful and sustainable.  By safe I mean not having everyone spend countless hours of time pouring their hearts and souls into a project that would inevitably either land them in legal danger, or force them to lose it.  By useful I mean something that would have intrinsic worth to society, so that we don't look back several years from now groaning that we spent so much time and energy on something that no one would remember.  And sustainable in that the project goal must be of intrinsic value to oneself, so that it lends a "drive" for the individual participants to work long and hard.

I threw in the FOSS examples to stay within topic, but in reality it could be something unrelated to OS-tans at all.  

When I was intending to leave the forum last year, I wanted to pursue programming so I could create a Japanese language learning game (GPL'd of course) and put my skills to even better use.  This was of course back when I took my forum life too seriously for my own health, so when the likes of Bella-san helped me rediscover the "fun" of it,... well,... you see I'm still here.  But I have not lost sight of that original dream, and I still practice programming every once in a while so that,... when I inevitably leave this forum,... I can spend my "retirement" building something that kids, language enthusiasts and Anime otaku will all find fun and useful.  And yes it'd be cross platform -- as long as people LEARN and are willing to educate themselves, I don't care what system they use.

Now if I recall, I said "recommend".  Probably because this is my FOSA thread, you feel that everything said by me is written in stone and that's the end of it.  But I'm not going to tell you what to do, so if you do want to pursue this individual dream of yours, then more power to you and I wish you good luck.  What I'm letting you know is that, unless this "Escalated FOSA" meets the prerequisites I just established, then I'm sorry to say I don't think I would be able to join you, and I certainly wouldn't feel right to commit anyone under my project leadership either.  With all due respect, that's simply well beyond my intended scope.

I'm sorry again to have to end things like this, when of course you've all participated so willingly and enthusiastically in this project.  I still don't want to deem it a failure, so I'll just say that this is simply a way of "feeling out" some pitfalls that we may encounter.  If the pitfalls persist, though, perhaps I may not be the best suited to found this project -- or we're simply not ready for it yet.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Dos on January 29, 2008, 07:59:29 pm
Don't give up c-chan you can do it eye of the tiger
"give c-Chan a fresh bake cookie
-Dos
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 29, 2008, 11:32:21 pm
*rubs DOS-chan's head playfully*

Thank you.  Don't worry about a thing.  ^^
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 30, 2008, 05:49:38 pm
*pops in*

C'mon people, we needa lighten up! And keep it simple! At first of course...

*Bella out*
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 30, 2008, 07:16:58 pm
*sneaks in*

Well Beauty... I learned to not take things seriously... that's why I keep most of my mind off the talk if it is not direct and literally related to the topic at hand... as expressed with my intent to drop the talk on some of the stuff up there.

But now that that may be aside... here's my skill checkup report... I converted one of the raster images I presented in the first page and want you people to see how good I have done... well... at least I think it is good. ^__^'

Anyways, here it is:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on January 31, 2008, 12:26:27 pm
Very very good.  Â¯v¯
Okay now, moving along to genkier topics....

I figure I should post up the original just to demonstrate how Kissu-san has advanced in his work:

(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/Shin_Fiwaicearth/Kiso-005.jpg)

As you can see, I'd say it's a near flawless conversion.  There is some slight loss of spikiness in the hair, but not sure if that's a bad thing -- in all honesty, the angular nature of the vectorized Kiso/Shin makes him look a lot more like someone you wouldn't want to mess with.  The raster version appeared softer and mellow, maybe just a touch insecure.

Only you can tell me which look you were ultimately aiming for, but for all intents and purposes I think it's great.  Not to mention that the vector art lends itself to a more modern Animesque-look, aside from a much greater ease of tweening.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 31, 2008, 02:46:18 pm
It is strange that you mention the anime-like flare that I gave to the character... everyone mentions me that after they see some of my actually shaded (a very rare thing to see) raster images... I guess it's in me to make things look more anime like rather than high-end artwork... I like simplicity in the way I do art... at least where there it the only deserved.

Also... I would have told you to pay close attention to the eyes... there I messed with quite some stuff... like turning paths to strokes. I was going to do that very same thing with the hair to make the spiky not be lost... but as mainly unsure of what would happen if I tried it, didn't want to blow up the fill or anything like that.

Anyways... from here on... I will start making improvements... the kind of stuff I am not able to do very well under a pixel environment because the mental image I have clashes with the one I get from the screen... pust it's very tedious a job to deal with due to me having to constantly switch between layers to correct stuff to make it fit within the image.

Now as for my intents... yes, that character is meant to look mean, or at least have a degree of seriousness to him. He, in that image may be considered to be in a good mood in comparison to the other than where it seemed as id he double-guessed himself a lot. So yes, he is the kind of character that the average person would not like to mess with... he's not really a bad character though... probably close to an anti-hero.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Bella on January 31, 2008, 04:01:56 pm
Nice job! I like his hair :D

Did you trace over the raster image, or use the automatic bitmap-to-vector tool? I myself prefer the former...
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: Kiso on January 31, 2008, 05:17:31 pm
Actually... I am the all out believer of doing things myself instead of letting the machine do all the work for me... so... yep, I did the tracing pretty much. i will change the hair though... too messy for him.

Oh, and let me not forget... thank you for the feedback... it is much appreciated.
Title: FOSA Preamble
Post by: C-Chan on February 01, 2008, 11:32:18 am
QuoteIt is strange that you mention the anime-like flare that I gave to the character... everyone mentions me that after they see some of my actually shaded (a very rare thing to see) raster images... I guess it's in me to make things look more anime like rather than high-end artwork... I like simplicity in the way I do art... at least where there it the only deserved.


Ah ha!  Well, if you admire simplicity, then I can see how the Anime style was practically made for you.  A combination of very simple components, effectively placed to generate the most dynamic image possible (and in the least amount of time... ^.^).  

I do believe that, now that you're getting used to vector graphics, shading will become less and less of a rarity.

QuoteAlso... I would have told you to pay close attention to the eyes... there I messed with quite some stuff... like turning paths to strokes. I was going to do that very same thing with the hair to make the spiky not be lost... but as mainly unsure of what would happen if I tried it, didn't want to blow up the fill or anything like that.


Oh, I see what you mean.  ^^
I'm guessing you did the eyelashes as single stroke lines, converted them to paths, then tapered their ends to give them that characteristic sharp angle.  Basically, a Refiner's work -- good job.  ^.^

For the hair, you can probably just get away with increasing the Miter Limit of the Stroke. A value of 7.0 was enough to get tips out of nearly all the spikes, although there was a really stubborn one that wouldn't pop out until I elevated it all the way up to 20 (but a little rearrangement can fix that).

QuoteAnyways... from here on... I will start making improvements... the kind of stuff I am not able to do very well under a pixel environment because the mental image I have clashes with the one I get from the screen... pust it's very tedious a job to deal with due to me having to constantly switch between layers to correct stuff to make it fit within the image.


That includes adding some shading, no?  There are two approaches that you can try out to see which one's easiest/fastest:

- Add shading over your currently flat-colored areas (boolean operations work great here)

or

- Darken all the currently flat-colored areas, and then just draw the highlighted areas on top (best suited if you want to use blurring effects).

QuoteSo yes, he is the kind of character that the average person would not like to mess with... he's not really a bad character though... probably close to an anti-hero.


Fufu... in a way, aren't we all?  ^___^
But that's great that you can make your characters as expressive as that.

QuoteActually... I am the all out believer of doing things myself instead of letting the machine do all the work for me... so... yep, I did the tracing pretty much. i will change the hair though... too messy for him.


Plus that Trace Bitmap tool wastefully splashes nodes around and does little to take benefit of Inkscape's customizability.  T___T

I only use it myself when I REALLY have to use it.  ^^;