June 01, 2020, 01:04:52 pm

Dubbing, Dubbing, Dubbing!

Started by Raffaele the Amigan, January 26, 2007, 04:56:35 am

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NewYinzer

Phil Hartman would be good...if he were alive.

CaptBrenden

I think the big name actors so far have done an astounding job, and the ones I have a complaint about are 100% of the time done by a profesional voice actor.

People who complain about the american voice actor not sounding like the japanese actor should just watch the japanese as nothing an american actor is going to do is likely to please them

If your not concerned with the american actor sounding like the japanese actor... then why would the actor try to sound like the japanese one?  It will make him sound unnatural and annoying.  Instead someone that speaks like a westerner would be more pleasing for you to listen to.
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IanDanKilmaster

My concern lies primarily with whether the how well emoted the character being voiced is and whether the voice suits the character... western... eastern... doesn't matter.  In my opinion, voice actors are much better suited because they are generally more articulate than standard screen actors.  Most screen actors today are simply a personality... and that's all they can be, which I guess is fine if you can find a role to shoehorn them into.  Voice-actors need to be able to, for lack of a better word, become another person.  Malleability is key.

Let's also keep in mind that screen actors cost a whole helluva lot more money than your standard voice actor.

The Choice of a New Generation.

CaptBrenden

I beg to differ on that. I find the voice actors usualy.. well fail at acting.   It comes out fake sounding and wihtout true emotion.  Screen actors I feel do a better job of that, and the only reason actors get locked into a role type is because people lock them into it.  Like when will smith wanted to break into real movies and everyone thought he wouldnt be anything more then the fresh prince of bell air.


Cost is irelevant if quality suffers as bad as it does
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IanDanKilmaster

Here's the problem, screen actors are used to acting with not just their voices but their bodies any lack of talent they have acting with their voice they can compensate for with body language (and make-up, costume, and special fx).  Voice actors (that is, good voice actors) understand the art of sonic performance.

Anytime dubbing suffers it's due to either: 1) poor scripting 2) poor voice direction 3) poor voice acting.  Through my own observation most of the problems with voice acting occur with the former two of the three, when it does occur with the third it's usually due to casting of a well-known screen actor than a voice actor.

The Choice of a New Generation.

CaptBrenden

Well, unfortunatly the bulk of dubbing voice actors fall into the fail catagory then, and since many companys use the same actors over and over again, they continue to produce bad dubs.  But personaly I think your wroung, i think the screen actors just as good a job with thier voice, the imagry just makes it even more powerful a performance.  Seriosly, turn on one of your favorite movies to an emotional or powerful scean, and then dont watch it, just listen.  Its just as good as any voice actor ive ever heard.
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IanDanKilmaster

The dubs I've seen lately are pretty well done.  The bad dubs could simply be remedied with some re-casting, but hiring some hot-shot A-lister would only make the end product worse.  There's a reason this profession was actually invented.  You can trace the roots of voice acting all the way back to radio, screen actors weren't used because they couldn't get the job done.  You can see this very same evolution of the voice acting profession in Japan, but in Japan, you never hear about screen actors doing voice over because they realize that job is for the voice actors.

The Choice of a New Generation.

CaptBrenden

Again, I compleatly disagree with you.  I think the screen actors are doing a fine job. It sounds more like you have a beef with them being a big shot screen actor and not that they do a poor job.    I agree recasting could solve alot of problems.. but unfortunatly the bad voice actors im talking about pretty much are the bulk of the job market there and thus control it.  Who is gonna get a job, the guy that has done the last 5 series youve dubbed, or the new talent?  Seniority has its privlages.  I think part of the reason this profession was created was because its cheaper. A voice actor dosent ask for the money as known screen actor asks for.  Hell CNN used to have james earl jones do their "this is CNN" but it cost them like 500 bucks each time it played because of it.. its pricy in many cases, but as for the quality of their work i think it is just as good as any voice actor.  But I do belive currently alot of voice actors are sub par.
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Nidas

I think its very unfair to compare the two personally. For a start, anime is a far bigger industry in Japan with a correspondingly far larger budget than dub projects. This means they can hire bigger name actors. The original creator is also far more likely to have some direct influence over aspects of the project in Japan for reasons which should be obvious so the voice artisits are more likely to be "true to the character".

But having said that, there are plenty of good dubs out there. Akira, NGE, Love Hina and Fruits Basket all spring to mind. I always watch those series in the dub. And Japanese audio doesn't guarantee quality; the Japanese version of Fullmoon wo Sagashite had one of the most annoying main characters ever further exacerbated by an equally annoying voice artist.

So I guess what I'm getting at is don't instantly dismiss dub; yeah there are some terrible ones out there (I'm looking at you CCS) but theres some gems out there too that too many people miss out on because of ignorant refusal to even try dubs.

Quote from: "IanDanKilmaster"Most dub-haters (not implying CaptB is) usually complain that most English voice actors don't even attempt to emulate the original voice and even in the case that they do, they don't do it properly.


Thats just ridiculous (not you, the people that say that ;P). They should try to get the character right sure, but emulate the original Japanese voice artist? Wtf for? On a kinda related note, I forget who said it, but one Japanese mangaka said that a translation should be as brutally thorough as possible; he would rightly be disgusted by the half-assed translations by many fansubbers who like to leave stuff like "oniichan" or "hai" or whatever in. Damn Wapanese, grr URGE TO KILL RISING. Ahem.

As to IDK's point about screen actors vs. voice actors, Disney and Pixar regularly hire A-listers for their films and they rarely have problems with poor quality dubbing; Genie from Aladdin is a great example ;) There are plenty of great versatile actors out there who perform equally well on and off screen.

So yeah. I usually try both dub and sub if I can and pick the one I prefer most. Usually I do end up preferring the sub but to each their own. k rant over <_<

CaptBrenden

I never said anything about dubs bad -_- most of what i own is in dub and I prefer dub. I like being able to listen to my shows in my native language speaking like I do.  When i want to hear it like it was ment in japanes, then I turn on the subs.  

My point was the same as yours, that there are screen actors that are just as good as voice actors just for the most part the current stock of voice actors that get the bulk of roles right now I feel arnt that skilled.  I think alot of dubs would benifit from new talent.

But I feel what your saying. the rabbid fans that complain that desu will no longer say ~desu in the american version are rediculus. The cute factor of saying ~desu is lost on western audiances unless they knew the original.  In the manga they have already started translating that as ~yes?
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Nidas

Quote from: "CaptBrenden"I never said anything about dubs bad -_- most of what i own is in dub and I prefer dub. I like being able to listen to my shows in my native language speaking like I do.  When i want to hear it like it was ment in japanes, then I turn on the subs.  

My point was the same as yours, that there are screen actors that are just as good as voice actors just for the most part the current stock of voice actors that get the bulk of roles right now I feel arnt that skilled.  I think alot of dubs would benifit from new talent.


yeah I know, I was just commenting generally mostly ;P

Quote from: "CaptBrenden"But I feel what your saying. the rabbid fans that complain that desu will no longer say ~desu in the american version are rediculus. The cute factor of saying ~desu is lost on western audiances unless they knew the original.  In the manga they have already started translating that as ~yes?


I dunno, initially the manga was weird without desu and it does take some getting used to, but I think a lot of RM fans are making something out of nothing. They couldn't really leave it as desu in a professional translation. But yeah the cuteness of it is mostly (but not entirely) gone sadly. Some things just don't translate well I guess

NejinOniwa

The intricacy of the japanese language, and the complete lack of corresponding things in many others, make anime and manga translation in general a very lossy thing. (Captain Obvious to the rescue!)


Anyways, where I live, not much anime is translated and/or dubbed. Manga translation, though is a quite substantial matter, but let's not get into that. But while the translation itself is accurate, and the seiyuu are nothing but excellent (for a dub, that is), the language itself is REALLY REALLY HORRIBLE for the thing. I remember watching a Love Hina dvd - which had been handed out as a special event on a local convent and had no english subs - and as soon as there was dialogue, i screamed and turned it off - not bad translation, just a horrible language for it. And difference in somatic structure makes dubbing worse in another way - it's friggin sonic speed talking.
I watch NOTHING but english-subbed anime, and for good reasons. I'd rather not spork out my eyes before reaching the age of 25...
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

SleepyD

Quote from: "Nidas"the Japanese version of Fullmoon wo Sagashite had one of the most annoying main characters ever further exacerbated by an equally annoying voice artist.


Hahahaha, oh gawd, I'm glad I'm not the only one who watched that... thing. XD;

Quote from: "NejinOniwa"The intricacy of the japanese language, and the complete lack of corresponding things in many others, make anime and manga translation in general a very lossy thing. (Captain Obvious to the rescue!)


Right, the differing degrees of formality is often lost. Take the honorific "-dono" for example.  Often it is translated as lord, but that word doesn't really express the degree of respect implied without a physical action such as bowing.

Many times, the way people speak changes drastically when speaking to others.  True, I'm sure we all do that as well, but in Japanese there are a bunch of words for the same thing just because of this.  I'm sure many of you have heard that the word "I" has many different corresponding words in Japanese.



Well, now that I have talked about that, I'll go a little bit on voice actors and screen actors.  There are screen actors that do great voice acting.  I thought the acting in Kingdom Hearts wasn't half bad, despite the Disney overtones. Of course, there are terrible SA => VAs too. I've heard others, but one I can remember off of the top of my head was Kiefer Sutherland in Armitage III.  Terrible.

I read pretty quickly, so I'm not sure if I got all the details.  Voice acting is a hard thing to do.  It might explain how few of them there are.  (Not to mention how little money they get compared to other acting/theater/other stufflikethat roles) For one thing, VAs don't interact with the other actors.  They do it alone, with only the characters on screen to interact with.  They also, along with their acting, must closely match the lip flap.  Distortion from computers to match the flap must be kept to a minimum.  And lastly, the translation must match.  They're getting better, but I hated it when actors would be forced to run through a paragraph of stuff in the space of 5 seconds.  

my two cents. ^^

CaptBrenden

ahh the middle ground.. a safe way to go
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SleepyD

Nothing wrong with that.... is there? XD;