It is an idea which arose in my mind. It started all from this discussion:
http://ostan-collections.net/viewtopic.php?t=204&start=300
Now I ask you. How is dubbing in your home country?
What are the voices that you prefer? What you dislike?
What is the best, the worst official dubbing?
What is the best fan-dub you ever listen?
Was it better or lesser than official dub?
the dubbing over here is actually done in dutch for the kids shows but DBZ and Gundam was in english dub.
I prefer the japanese of course, english sounds like those nurses in retirement homes, talking loudly and in arcing tones in their sentences.
I havn't seen many dubs but i gotta say Gundam Wing wasn't actually that bad when i watched it, but that was before i got used to watching the original japanese so i'd have to rewatch to make a fair opinion on it. Also Ghost in the Shell has a decent dub...not great of course but...just about ok.
the best fan-dub...i have no idea, i never heard a fan-dub! Only for parody reasons actually. Do those serious fan-dubs even exist? o_0
Anyway there is a "fan-dub" i'm watching actually and it's a parody on yu-gi-oh, it's called "yu-gi-oh: the abridged series"
look it up on youtube, i havn't seen either of the original yu-gi-oh or the dubbed version so i don't know...but i'm pretty sure it's better! hehe the abridged series is hilarious, i recommend it to anybody who likes anime in general
fandubs usually annoy me, but the fandub parodies like the yugioh one Xyanide mentioned are funneh
Now back when I was little I used to pick out voice actors, for example Brock and Kaiba. I still do, only now it has expanded to video games, Japanese VAs as well as English VAs.
Crispin Freeman is an interesting dubber. Somehow he tends to have this maniacal laugh that makes me laugh. XD (Alucard (hellsing), Albedo (xenosaga), Albel (star ocean 3))
...i did not realize they all started with "Al" XD; I've observed he also caters to the fangirls, having seen him in a panel at AX. Much screaming and laughter ensued.
It seems that female dubs are what tend to annoy me the most.... Western voices aren't made to be loli. They just make peoples ears bleed if they try.
But overall, the worst dubs are a few old anime that I can't recall right now, and anything that comes out of 4Kids.
That is what I have to say. ^^
I like either personaly.. it really depends which I see first. I never like the second one I watch.. but thats because ive alread associates a voice to a cirtain character.
well i can understand what CaptBrenden said since before i downloaded and watched fansubs i appreciated the dubbings here in the philippines, shows like Voltes V, Yu yu Hakusho, Getter Robo... :/
i never complained before but when i started watching subbed animes i started to dislike the Filipino dubbed ones and most of the time, the english dubbed ones as well since like what SleepyD said the female dubbers are quite annoying. ;013
dubbing in my country is suck but good thing is my neighbor country's dubbing is great and dubbing on Animax channel some good some bad
but i think original sound track is better(sub).
Some of animax's dubs were ok. Not great though. I watched some when I was in the Philippines.
Quote from: "zjhentohlauedy"well i can understand what CaptBrenden said since before i downloaded and watched fansubs i appreciated the dubbings here in the philippines, shows like Voltes V, Yu yu Hakusho, Getter Robo... :/
i never complained before but when i started watching subbed animes i started to dislike the Filipino dubbed ones and most of the time, the english dubbed ones as well since like what SleepyD said the female dubbers are quite annoying. ;013
I must say though, the dubbing for Yakitate!! Japan in Tagalog cracked me up. I was rofl-ing all over. XD
the dubs we got in Iraq were horrible.. and quite illegal -_- honestly i dont know why they are able to sell them on base.. btu the arabs sell bootleg DVDs on base there.. and you can get full anime series with fancy looking boxes... and you might think they were legit.. exept for the typos.. and the REALLY BAD SUBS.
Funny.. some of them claimed to be from popular sub groups.. like I saw a copy of bleach 1-64 and it claimed it was Lunars.. but my buddy got it and it cirtanly wasnt lunar animes sub.
well illegal stuffs are risky, you win some you lose some. ;026
the higher ups know they are being sold there.. so maybe there is a legal reason why copys like that can be sold in a third world country.. or maybe they are just turning a blind eye? I donno. Some discs were done pretty good, some were filmed out of a thearter. We were able to see new release movies out there... but often it wasnt worth it. I saw the ring 2 out there 9and other then the fact the movie fails at life) it lost all effect it might have had cus i couldnt see what was going on. just hear screaming white woman.
yeah, worst fake discs are the ones recorded inside theaters and cinemas.
BTW i like your new ava. ^_^
Dubs dubs dubs... really, it all depends on whether the actual work itself is good or not, since dubbing is sorta inconsistent across several titles, and it's not hard to see why. Not only do you have different VA groups doing different anime, but also the voice that worked for one character may not work for another (Blum as Onizuka T_T), and then there's the acting itself, whose quality depends on the dubbing director (and to some degree, the VA's salary). And of course there's the translations; some script translations require tweaking to match the onscreen character's lip movements, too much tweaking though and you risk losing the original meaning of the dialogue. Lots of complexities ^^;;
But anyways, you can't always say a dub in a certain language is bad. I mean while many tagalog dubs in our country are quite horrid, there are the titles that actually capture the feel of the original (dub Yakitate! Japan for example, which is quite hilarious), and at certain times, Filipinos can actually match the Japanese VA's in talent, at least in certain high profile titles. And then there are the english dubs whose very translation mars the original japanese meaning, and not to mention rampant overacting, but nonetheless there are series that are better being watched in English, and are actually preferrable to watching subbed, like Cowboy Bebop.
My point? Well, keep watching anime =P
I heard Bandai actually held an online poll for the English voice actors for Haruhi.
Polls have closed now of course, but I hope the people who voted made wise choices. It's an interesting method, and a method I support. ^^
They did a few weeks ago yes. They had each VA act out a sample line for the character, then put them up as wav samples on the poll, so people can listen to whoever best suits that character. Pretty good method if you ask me, and should be implemented more in the future.
that's a great way! this would make dubbed anime more interesting, id like to see/hear how the method worked out.
well i sure hope so, i'll concider watching the dub just to see how it turned out but like i said before:
english dubs mostly sound like those nurses in retirement homes, talking loudly and in arcing tones in their sentences.
It takes away all credibility in my opinion.
Dubs... are ehh... It's funny to see Engrish subtitles though. For graet justice.
Well as I said in the other thread, I like to try both dub and sub and pick the best one. For instance, today I was watching Spirited Away and I actually prefer the dub for that. But usually I do prefer sub. I don't instantly dismiss them though. Too bad dual-audio fansubs aren't as common as they used to be =/
um.. awsome sig XD
oh and yeah, some dubs are good. I would expect no less from studio gibli tho
I'm with Captain B,
Some of the Ghibli dubs are excellent.
I have even enjoyed the Disney partnership
releases with US and Canadian voice talent.
The late Phil Hartman was especially pleasant
in Kiki's Delivery Service, IMHO.
Any thoughts?
Too bad that his wife killed him before he finished it -_- thats why he is silent towards the end of the film. But Gibli brings alot of good actors to the table. For example, Billy Bob Thorton in Mononoke. Whey arnt the usual screachy little voice actors, they are serios acting talent. I wish they would do that with more anime. It isnt nessicary to mimic the high pitched voices in the american translation, cus unlike in japan, those high pitched voices arnt exaclty concidered attaractive like they are in japan (i guess our languange isnt as suited for it) So putting normal actors in those roles often make for good dubs.
I thought that Billy Bob did a great job in Mononoke. Contrast that with the job done for Kitsune in Love Hina. Now that was crappy. Same thing with Keitaro.
*cringes*
Like I said, I think most dubbing companys need to get rid of the current stock of voice actors and replace them with normal actors.. the normal actors read the lines like .. well like a westerner would. Im not even sure what poseses them to speak like they do.. its so unatural sometimes.
The voice of Siegfried from Soul Calibur 3 sounds good and knightly to me.
The voice of Spike Spiegel/Mugen sounds good to me too.
Anyone other than those two... lack something...
well siegfried rocks! they wouldn't dare destroy his charater by lousy voice acting.
Casually wondering, why the hell do they dub that kind of stuff anyway? I mean...video fighting games? Dub? That doesn't go together anywhere in my mind.
They never dub DOA games :P The only english speaking character Ive seen in them was Nichole... But I would expect a spartan to speak english.. I mean cheif does.
Quote from: "SleepyD"
But overall, the worst dubs are a few old anime that I can't recall right now, and anything that comes out of 4Kids.
That is what I have to say. ^^
I'll second 4Kids, except for TMNT Teenage mutant ninja turtles. They're OK as far as an anime goes.
To me, the best Dubbing has to go to Ghost in the shell. I notices that the voice actors didn't have to strain their voice to get the 'feel' of a character.
The worst...Ikki Tousen. There are only 2 reasons I watch that series, and neither of them are because of the voice.
i hate the english dubs, but i prefer it to the malay dubs here. they sound tooooo ugg....but for some shows like Howl's Moving Castle is good in eng dub ;)
I'm a pretty big fan of dubs, but even I realize that a dub can be done poorly. What I really think it boils down to though, is a matter of preference. I think the opinion of voice actors that CaptB expressed earlier is the first of its kind that I've heard (that it's best when they talk like Westerners). Most dub-haters (not implying CaptB is) usually complain that most English voice actors don't even attempt to emulate the original voice and even in the case that they do, they don't do it properly. Meh, I don't know, but my opinion is that the profession of voice acting should be preserved... outside of screen acting. I think the real problem with voice acting is that there is this misconception that exists outside (and even within) the profession that focuses too much on the voice and not enough on the acting (this is a conclusion I came to after an interview I did with a voice actor). Despite that, I don't think a screen actor is necessarily a good voice actor. I think Phil Hartman and Mark Hammill (who wasn't mentioned but I decided to include due to my fondness of him) are two among few exceptions to this rule. Of course, this would appear to go against my previous statement about acting, but I believe that most of the American actors today play largely typecast roles and I don't think that translates well into animation. Contrast this with the fact that a number of voice actors today who actually have theatrical training (and a few who don't) and understand what it means to take on a role. Just thought I'd weigh in here due to the fact that I, myself, am an aspiring voice actor working towards a voice over career through theatrical training.
Phil Hartman would be good...if he were alive.
I think the big name actors so far have done an astounding job, and the ones I have a complaint about are 100% of the time done by a profesional voice actor.
People who complain about the american voice actor not sounding like the japanese actor should just watch the japanese as nothing an american actor is going to do is likely to please them
If your not concerned with the american actor sounding like the japanese actor... then why would the actor try to sound like the japanese one? It will make him sound unnatural and annoying. Instead someone that speaks like a westerner would be more pleasing for you to listen to.
My concern lies primarily with whether the how well emoted the character being voiced is and whether the voice suits the character... western... eastern... doesn't matter. In my opinion, voice actors are much better suited because they are generally more articulate than standard screen actors. Most screen actors today are simply a personality... and that's all they can be, which I guess is fine if you can find a role to shoehorn them into. Voice-actors need to be able to, for lack of a better word, become another person. Malleability is key.
Let's also keep in mind that screen actors cost a whole helluva lot more money than your standard voice actor.
I beg to differ on that. I find the voice actors usualy.. well fail at acting. It comes out fake sounding and wihtout true emotion. Screen actors I feel do a better job of that, and the only reason actors get locked into a role type is because people lock them into it. Like when will smith wanted to break into real movies and everyone thought he wouldnt be anything more then the fresh prince of bell air.
Cost is irelevant if quality suffers as bad as it does
Here's the problem, screen actors are used to acting with not just their voices but their bodies any lack of talent they have acting with their voice they can compensate for with body language (and make-up, costume, and special fx). Voice actors (that is, good voice actors) understand the art of sonic performance.
Anytime dubbing suffers it's due to either: 1) poor scripting 2) poor voice direction 3) poor voice acting. Through my own observation most of the problems with voice acting occur with the former two of the three, when it does occur with the third it's usually due to casting of a well-known screen actor than a voice actor.
Well, unfortunatly the bulk of dubbing voice actors fall into the fail catagory then, and since many companys use the same actors over and over again, they continue to produce bad dubs. But personaly I think your wroung, i think the screen actors just as good a job with thier voice, the imagry just makes it even more powerful a performance. Seriosly, turn on one of your favorite movies to an emotional or powerful scean, and then dont watch it, just listen. Its just as good as any voice actor ive ever heard.
The dubs I've seen lately are pretty well done. The bad dubs could simply be remedied with some re-casting, but hiring some hot-shot A-lister would only make the end product worse. There's a reason this profession was actually invented. You can trace the roots of voice acting all the way back to radio, screen actors weren't used because they couldn't get the job done. You can see this very same evolution of the voice acting profession in Japan, but in Japan, you never hear about screen actors doing voice over because they realize that job is for the voice actors.
Again, I compleatly disagree with you. I think the screen actors are doing a fine job. It sounds more like you have a beef with them being a big shot screen actor and not that they do a poor job. I agree recasting could solve alot of problems.. but unfortunatly the bad voice actors im talking about pretty much are the bulk of the job market there and thus control it. Who is gonna get a job, the guy that has done the last 5 series youve dubbed, or the new talent? Seniority has its privlages. I think part of the reason this profession was created was because its cheaper. A voice actor dosent ask for the money as known screen actor asks for. Hell CNN used to have james earl jones do their "this is CNN" but it cost them like 500 bucks each time it played because of it.. its pricy in many cases, but as for the quality of their work i think it is just as good as any voice actor. But I do belive currently alot of voice actors are sub par.
I think its very unfair to compare the two personally. For a start, anime is a far bigger industry in Japan with a correspondingly far larger budget than dub projects. This means they can hire bigger name actors. The original creator is also far more likely to have some direct influence over aspects of the project in Japan for reasons which should be obvious so the voice artisits are more likely to be "true to the character".
But having said that, there are plenty of good dubs out there. Akira, NGE, Love Hina and Fruits Basket all spring to mind. I always watch those series in the dub. And Japanese audio doesn't guarantee quality; the Japanese version of Fullmoon wo Sagashite had one of the most annoying main characters ever further exacerbated by an equally annoying voice artist.
So I guess what I'm getting at is don't instantly dismiss dub; yeah there are some terrible ones out there (I'm looking at you CCS) but theres some gems out there too that too many people miss out on because of ignorant refusal to even try dubs.
Quote from: "IanDanKilmaster"Most dub-haters (not implying CaptB is) usually complain that most English voice actors don't even attempt to emulate the original voice and even in the case that they do, they don't do it properly.
Thats just ridiculous (not you, the people that say that ;P). They should try to get the character right sure, but emulate the original Japanese voice artist? Wtf for? On a kinda related note, I forget who said it, but one Japanese mangaka said that a translation should be as brutally thorough as possible; he would rightly be disgusted by the half-assed translations by many fansubbers who like to leave stuff like "oniichan" or "hai" or whatever in. Damn Wapanese, grr URGE TO KILL RISING. Ahem.
As to IDK's point about screen actors vs. voice actors, Disney and Pixar regularly hire A-listers for their films and they rarely have problems with poor quality dubbing; Genie from Aladdin is a great example ;) There are plenty of great versatile actors out there who perform equally well on and off screen.
So yeah. I usually try both dub and sub if I can and pick the one I prefer most. Usually I do end up preferring the sub but to each their own. k rant over <_<
I never said anything about dubs bad -_- most of what i own is in dub and I prefer dub. I like being able to listen to my shows in my native language speaking like I do. When i want to hear it like it was ment in japanes, then I turn on the subs.
My point was the same as yours, that there are screen actors that are just as good as voice actors just for the most part the current stock of voice actors that get the bulk of roles right now I feel arnt that skilled. I think alot of dubs would benifit from new talent.
But I feel what your saying. the rabbid fans that complain that desu will no longer say ~desu in the american version are rediculus. The cute factor of saying ~desu is lost on western audiances unless they knew the original. In the manga they have already started translating that as ~yes?
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"I never said anything about dubs bad -_- most of what i own is in dub and I prefer dub. I like being able to listen to my shows in my native language speaking like I do. When i want to hear it like it was ment in japanes, then I turn on the subs.
My point was the same as yours, that there are screen actors that are just as good as voice actors just for the most part the current stock of voice actors that get the bulk of roles right now I feel arnt that skilled. I think alot of dubs would benifit from new talent.
yeah I know, I was just commenting generally mostly ;P
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"But I feel what your saying. the rabbid fans that complain that desu will no longer say ~desu in the american version are rediculus. The cute factor of saying ~desu is lost on western audiances unless they knew the original. In the manga they have already started translating that as ~yes?
I dunno, initially the manga was weird without desu and it does take some getting used to, but I think a lot of RM fans are making something out of nothing. They couldn't really leave it as desu in a professional translation. But yeah the cuteness of it is mostly (but not entirely) gone sadly. Some things just don't translate well I guess
The intricacy of the japanese language, and the complete lack of corresponding things in many others, make anime and manga translation in general a very lossy thing. (Captain Obvious to the rescue!)
Anyways, where I live, not much anime is translated and/or dubbed. Manga translation, though is a quite substantial matter, but let's not get into that. But while the translation itself is accurate, and the seiyuu are nothing but excellent (for a dub, that is), the language itself is REALLY REALLY HORRIBLE for the thing. I remember watching a Love Hina dvd - which had been handed out as a special event on a local convent and had no english subs - and as soon as there was dialogue, i screamed and turned it off - not bad translation, just a horrible language for it. And difference in somatic structure makes dubbing worse in another way - it's friggin sonic speed talking.
I watch NOTHING but english-subbed anime, and for good reasons. I'd rather not spork out my eyes before reaching the age of 25...
Quote from: "Nidas"the Japanese version of Fullmoon wo Sagashite had one of the most annoying main characters ever further exacerbated by an equally annoying voice artist.
Hahahaha, oh gawd, I'm glad I'm not the only one who watched that... thing. XD;
Quote from: "NejinOniwa"The intricacy of the japanese language, and the complete lack of corresponding things in many others, make anime and manga translation in general a very lossy thing. (Captain Obvious to the rescue!)
Right, the differing degrees of formality is often lost. Take the honorific "-dono" for example. Often it is translated as lord, but that word doesn't really express the degree of respect implied without a physical action such as bowing.
Many times, the way people speak changes drastically when speaking to others. True, I'm sure we all do that as well, but in Japanese there are a bunch of words for the same thing just because of this. I'm sure many of you have heard that the word "I" has many different corresponding words in Japanese.
Well, now that I have talked about that, I'll go a little bit on voice actors and screen actors. There are screen actors that do great voice acting. I thought the acting in Kingdom Hearts wasn't half bad, despite the Disney overtones. Of course, there are terrible SA => VAs too. I've heard others, but one I can remember off of the top of my head was Kiefer Sutherland in Armitage III. Terrible.
I read pretty quickly, so I'm not sure if I got all the details. Voice acting is a hard thing to do. It might explain how few of them there are. (Not to mention how little money they get compared to other acting/theater/other stufflikethat roles) For one thing, VAs don't interact with the other actors. They do it alone, with only the characters on screen to interact with. They also, along with their acting, must closely match the lip flap. Distortion from computers to match the flap must be kept to a minimum. And lastly, the translation must match. They're getting better, but I hated it when actors would be forced to run through a paragraph of stuff in the space of 5 seconds.
my two cents. ^^
ahh the middle ground.. a safe way to go
Nothing wrong with that.... is there? XD;
Negi: "Ill be rooting for both of you!"
Asuna: "You brat-! I go crazy wondering who I should root for and HE splites his bet!!!"
Chachazero "like his father I tell you"
I'm really impressed. I never thought that There would be such a thorough discussion on this.
Now, back ontopic, I see what both CaptBrenden and IanDanKilmaster are saying, but I really believe that the fact of "if the actor wanted that role" comes to mind. I mean, most screen actor get the lead voice character role off the bat, but do you think the actor wanted that? or what about a one-line voice actor; same question? The answer: Nobody will ever know except for the actor. Emotion outside of the show is just as important as emotion inside of the show.
On CaptBrenden and Nidas talk, I agree with your second discussion. Why do western actors have to sound japanese? and Just how can western actors do that? I'm at a loss to explain why their are such "rabid" fans.
On one more note, I really hate it when people say "Why does (Character 1) sound like (Character 2)? That voice\screen actor is why I hate (show where character 1 came from) and now I hate (show where character 2 comes from)? This just infuriates me to no end. I'll give an example: Me and a group of others were avid One Piece fans (even if the V.A. of Luffy freaked me out ;015) . But when we got to the part about that shark pirate, ALL of the other just gave up on One Piece. You know why? Because they predicted that bad voice acting was soon to follow. I inquired as to why, when one told me that the voice actor of goku was the voice actor for shark pirate. (WTH is that shark pirates name???) That is blatant, disregarding one show because of another. I just can't understand this! can anyone give me a bit of enlightenment?
because they are rabid fans? I donno... I love anime but sometimes there are undesierables in the fandom that make me want to distance myself from it -_- like guys that try to fit in a sailor moon outfit thats 5 times too small
or Man-Faye. lol
anyway, on those points, I agree. You cannot expect someone to sound Japanese and have it come off as something that's not annoying. Attempts at Japanese cute voices have largely failed in my opinion. I'd think any attempt to imitate the original 100% would be disastrous. Also, like you said, an entire anime cannot be judged on the name of one VA. They may do a good job (or be unbearable). Don't judge a book by its cover, I guess.
Oh, also, I'd like to bring up Phoenix Wright. If you haven't played it, it's like a quirky mystery/comedy visual novel based on lawyers. A lot of times the spirit of the game needs to be preserved and not the literal meaning. The main character's name in both English and Japanese are, respectively: Phoenix Wright and Ryuiichi Naruhodou.
Now, those who have listened to enough Japanese will recognize that his name, Naruhodou, is also "I see (what you mean)." A pun like that should be preserved, and hence, his last name is Wright, right? They even have mystical creatures as their names. (Ryu=dragon) Phoenix has a second meaning in that Phoenix (the attorney) has a knack for comebacks.
Why did I go through all that? If the dudes who translated Phoenix Wright kept the original names, a whole slew of jokes and puns would have been missed by the audience. If we kept trying to imitate the original voices, we'd feel separated from the characters in a way. Some Japanese girls actually do speak in that high voice, but I'd think that's a rare thing to hear in the US. Changes must occur if the dubbing is to be considered successful.
Quote from: "SleepyD"
Well, now that I have talked about that, I'll go a little bit on voice actors and screen actors. There are screen actors that do great voice acting. I thought the acting in Kingdom Hearts wasn't half bad, despite the Disney overtones. Of course, there are terrible SA => VAs too. I've heard others, but one I can remember off of the top of my head was Kiefer Sutherland in Armitage III. Terrible.
I read pretty quickly, so I'm not sure if I got all the details. Voice acting is a hard thing to do. It might explain how few of them there are. (Not to mention how little money they get compared to other acting/theater/other stufflikethat roles) For one thing, VAs don't interact with the other actors. They do it alone, with only the characters on screen to interact with. They also, along with their acting, must closely match the lip flap. Distortion from computers to match the flap must be kept to a minimum. And lastly, the translation must match. They're getting better, but I hated it when actors would be forced to run through a paragraph of stuff in the space of 5 seconds.
my two cents. ^^
I can agree with this. The only point I was trying make was that suggesting all VAs be fired and SAs be hired in their place was a bad idea. I suppose I made a mistake by debating from a more extremist position, but I feel very strongly (obviously -_-; ) that voice acting is a career that should be preserved within itself and not marketed with star power. Sure there are a few bad VAs out there, but I think the current crop of studio talent (i.e. Laura Bailey, Travis Willingham, and Kari Wahlgren) is pretty good. I'm also aware that there are screen actors who are capable of making the transition (the most recent example is probably Ron Perlman), but I really don't think it's something the screen acting community at large is capable of pulling off.
(btw. thank you for going more in-depth with this)
i just like to wait for the anime to come out in english or french
insted of haveing dubbs
... that is dubbing.... subbing is subtitles...
i thik i may have heard crispin freeman vocie the frenchman
(forget his name). i know that he vocie for haji. but i can't find
any credit for the frenchman in the anime "BLOOD+". can some
one confirm this?
Canada has the same dubbing as the US. Or at least the English speaking areas do. Quebec get the French dubs from France.
Quote from: "homemovies"i thik i may have heard crispin freeman vocie the frenchman
(forget his name). i know that he vocie for haji. but i can't find
any credit for the frenchman in the anime "BLOOD+". can some
one confirm this?
The Frenchman to whom you are referring is named Van, I'm pretty sure all the credits for each actor are grouped together like this: Kari Wahlgren - Saya/Diva. So you would see Van's name right next to Haji's if he was in that particular episode (they actually change the credits per ep). Hope that clears things up ^__^.