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winduko

I know something!

She should exist. /nothelpful

I even know how to implement her in my project. How she'll be implemented is a huge spoiler, however.

Bella

July 23, 2014, 04:08:32 pm #226 Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 04:12:34 pm by Bella
Quote from: winduko on July 23, 2014, 02:50:17 pm
I even know how to implement her in my project. How she'll be implemented is a huge spoiler, however.


Spiritual ancestor of the Windows and Macs?

Since you brought up -tans and speech patterns; considering the majority of my OS-tans are from 50s-through-80s Massachusetts, there are a lot of Boston accents and New England-isms as you can imagine.

Oddly I've never really thought of any of the MIT OS-tans as being particularly regionally-spoken (not counting Whirlwind and SAGE-tan). Multics-tan, in particular, I've always imagined as speaking with something along the lines of a Transatlantic accent. Kind of ambiguous but very affected and upper-crust. (For anyone reading who doesn't know what a Transatlantic accent is but has been exposed to internet pop culture in the last few years, think Rarity from MLP.) Big vocabulary... probably too big to be taken completely seriously.

On the opposite end of the spectrum I imagine Unix-tan as being bluntly-spoken and Linux-tan as being both verbose and very technical. Like stereotypical nerd territory. I also imagine she has a tendency toward foot-in-mouth disease ...

winduko

As well as the literal ancestor. Though what you said did remind me that schisms happen. They also get violent.

Now, after this point, it's purely my headcanon. My headcanon is meant to be a compromise between Futaba's canon and history. There will likely be things you'll disagree with, and I may take some artistic license with history.

As for the accents, it honestly depends on the location of the company, but exceptions always happen. For example, most Windows-tans would, in theory, have a Pacific Northwestern accent. But say a Windows-tan has a codename that implies otherwise. Windows 95-tan will be the example, as she is (debatable, as NT 3.5, with the codename of Daytona, while beginning development later, was released 11 months prior to 95) the first Windows-tan with such a codename. And she's my favourite tan.

As everyone here (probably) knows, Windows 95 was codenamed Chicago. With that logic, a Windows 95-tan should sound like she comes from that area. It's simple really.

Except when it isn't. Two Windows 95-tans exist with the existence of three codenames (why yes three, that's no typo) that could apply to them, and none of them are Chicago.

Windows 95 OSR 2.1-tan has two codenames that could technically apply to her, as her existence is more or less because Windows codename Nashville was cancelled, and so I lump the theoretical Windows 96-tan and Windows 95 OSR 2.1-tan into the same tan. However, Nashville was first codenamed Cleveland, and Chicago accents also are Cleveland accents, as those two cities are the cities which the Inland North accent is connected with, amusingly. The change in codenames is oddly consistent with her personality in my headcanon, in which she's not afraid to go against 95-tan. 95 OSR 2.1-tan probably has a fake Southern accent, and when she speaks naturally, her accent is the same (and as thick) as 95-tan's.

Meanwhile, Windows 95 OSR 2.5-tan sounds like she's from Detroit, as Windows 95 OSR 2.x was codenamed Detroit. The reason why 95 OSR 2.1 does not have such an accent is because 95 OSR 2.x exists due to the cancellation of Nashville.

We'll move on to Windows 98, which has three -tans. My interperetation has Yamada being the Windows 98-tan, sorta representing both the first and second editions, while Hacchan and Secchan represent First Edition and Second edition respectively. Thankfully both versions used Memphis as the codename, and therefore have thick Dixie accents. Far less complicated than Windows 95.

Windows 97-tan would vary between this accent and a Detroit accent depending on who she's with. If 97-tan is with 95 OSR 2.5-tan, then she'll use a Detroit accent, but when they are seperated and the situation calls for it, she uses a Dixie accent. In fact, 97-tan would claim to be a translator between 95 OSR 2.5-tan and Hacchan.

We will backtrack a little more to Windows NT-tan. Windows NT 3.5 was codenamed Daytona, after the Daytona International Speedway, which is in Daytona Beach, Florida. This would mean both of the NT-tans would likely have a Florida accent.

The Windows XP-tans, Vistans, Windows 7-tan(s), Neptune-tan, Odyssey-tan, and, to a lesser degree, Windows 2000-tan and Windows ME-tan would sound like they were from British Columbia due to the fact that some of these tans have codenames that relate to the Canadian province and four of them are predecessors to Windows XP. In fact, if we were to be more specific, they relate to Whistler, British Columbia, and even more specifically, the Whistler-Blackcomb ski resort, with XP's codename being Whistler, 7's first codename being Blackcomb, and Vista's codename being Longhorn, as in the Longhorn Bar.

As for Neptune, Odyssey, 2000, and ME, all of them are significant predecessors to Whistler/XP to the point where they'd share an accent. The accent is diminished in 2000 and ME because their relation, especially in ME's case, isn't as direct. The "default" accent for a Windows-tan is thankfully very similar to a British Columbian accent, albeit less Canadian.

1.x/2.x (same tan), 3.x, 8.x, and Threshold are the -tans with the "default" accent.

As for Cairo, she is unique as she's the only Windows-tan with a non-Seattle accent, but the nickname points to a location that wouldn't signify her accent. Her accent is an Inland North accent as she is Windows 95-tan's slightly older twin sister, the relation being a reference to how her GUI became the Windows 95 GUI.

As for Mac-tans, I'll likely cover that later when I know more and because this post is already really long, but System 7/7.5 (Futaba!System 7.5-tan's design covering all of System 7.x) also has a thick Inland North accent due to System 7.5's codename being Capone. And it's funny to see mortal enemies with the same accent in a town without a unified accent.

As a note, the -kuns would have the same accents as their corresponding -tans.

Bella

Interesting headcanon; I usually just give my characters whatever accent is common in their region / nation. Begs the question though, what is a Pacific Northwest accent anyway?

As for Alto being related to the Windows and Macs/Apples, generally it's accepted that the Windows-tans came from the C/PM & DOS family tree and Lisa-tan and the Macs from the Apple I line ... but considering that OS-tans often have multiple parents and are quite heavily genetically-engineered I wouldn't rule it out either.

winduko

The accent you'd find in Seattle. TVTropes explains it better than I ever will. That's actually the accent that would typically be had by them due to the fact that Microsoft's headquarters have been in cities/towns surrounding Seattle since Windows was first being developed.

And about Alto? Ah yes. My theory relies on some details: Alto-tan Really Gets Around. And Immortal. And the inventor of Homosexual Reproduction.

She passed on her beliefs (need to work what they are out, but certainly it would relate to GUIs) to her three beloved daughters (Lisa, System 1, and Windows 1.x/2.x). The modern day Windows philosophy is actually a mix of Windows 1.x/2.x's philosophy and Lisa's philosophy. This is because the leader of the Windows 95 Development Team, Brad Silverberg, was also a part of the Lisa Development Team. Meanwhile, System 1's philosophy is still held by the Mac-tans. To say the least, the modern-day philosophies conflict.

That's not to say that they always get in the way. 2k, Sonata, ME, and Kyuurou can all confirm that such philosophies don't get in the way of romance. Saseko and Tiger can confirm that they don't get in the way of friendship.

Bella

Hmm, I see! So far I envision Alto-tan as being giving (whether it's intentional or unintentional is still to be determined), a consummate inventor with little will to actually capitalize on her ideas and a tendency to get screwed over badly by "competitors" (a la Nikola Tesla). Spiritual descendant of her fellow Californian inventors NLS and WAITS. Like her distant interactive-system "foremothers" Whirlwind and TX-0 (among many others), she's deeply invested in the idea of bridging the gap between human beings and computers though better communication and dreams of a day when arcane spell requests and esoteric languages will be replaced by a common-sense "language" both can understand.

As for homosexual reproduction, in my (and arguably Stew's) story universes such technology exists as early as the first contemporary -tans themselves (so the early 1950s) and quite possibly earlier. I'm not sure about SAGE, but TX-0 and PDP-1-tan are both the children of Whirlwind and MTC-tan. There's also a case to be made that Multics-tan (born ca. 1964) is CTSS and BESYS's kid, and PDP-12-tan is canonically PDP-8's and LINC'S (late 60s).

I imagine OS Wars-era Macs and Windows-tans were/are sworn enemies but their postwar kin are decidedly more laid-back and diplomatic toward each other.

winduko

Hmm. I have realized that what you said earlier about Alto being their spiritual predecessor makes a ton more sense and would fit better into the story. The project is thankfully fully open for retcons.

Penti-chan

TBH, although I vaguely knew of Xerox Alto, I didn't think to incorporate it into my story...although I do establish Multics as the spiritual predecessor of all -tans
(Also, the lab she was created in is referred to as a holy ground -w-)

Bella

Quote from: winduko on July 24, 2014, 04:25:40 pm
Hmm. I have realized that what you said earlier about Alto being their spiritual predecessor makes a ton more sense and would fit better into the story. The project is thankfully fully open for retcons.


I'm very flattered you like my ideas. ^_^

With regards to project retcons, I know the feeling also; a lot of my OS-tan backstory is a work-in-progress. As I learn more about personified systems, brainstorm ideas with others and build a clearer picture of the OS-tan universe things get changed around and refined. There's really no such thing as a 100% concrete backstory because I never know what I'll learn next. ^^

Quote from: PentiumMMX on July 24, 2014, 04:44:35 pm
TBH, although I vaguely knew of Xerox Alto, I didn't think to incorporate it into my story...although I do establish Multics as the spiritual predecessor of all -tans
(Also, the lab she was created in is referred to as a holy ground -w-)


That's not too far off the mark. There are only a handful of true "Multics descendants" but Multics had a huge impact on OS design in general.

That said I wonder if DEC had a slightly more direct impact (because of the influence of DEC OSes on CP/M [and DOS and early Windows by association] and Windows NT, not to mention early Unix being built on DEC hardware).

I can confirm Multics' birthplace is holy ground, every time I go past the old Project MAC building in Cambridge I stop and take a moment to appreciate it.  :O

winduko

Quote from: Bella on July 24, 2014, 06:25:30 pm
I'm very flattered you like my ideas. ^_^

With regards to project retcons, I know the feeling also; a lot of my OS-tan backstory is a work-in-progress. As I learn more about personified systems, brainstorm ideas with others and build a clearer picture of the OS-tan universe things get changed around and refined. There's really no such thing as a 100% concrete backstory because I never know what I'll learn next. ^^


This is exactly why I like listening to other's ideas. Sometimes their ideas make more sense than my own, and that's okay. :)

As for the retcons thing, I try to strive for a balance between Futaba Canon and History. Such a balance is not easy to achieve, however. It's great when they overlap though, as that means that I don't have to defy canon while being historically accurate, even if it means datamining Nijikaku and some Fridge Brilliance. I used to be very retcon-happy when I was younger, so I try to avoid retcons... but when it comes to OS-tans, they really are a necessary evil, as I don't know everything about OSes and I likely never will.

...and then there are the times where canon doesn't say anything and history points to a direction I have no desire to go. And there are times where canon points in a direction I don't wish to go, or advised to not go. In both cases I try to find a compromise or just ignore it altogether. And sometimes those decisions are so much better than my previous ideas that I are happy that I was not advised to go in that direction.

Quote from: PentiumMMX on July 24, 2014, 04:44:35 pm
TBH, although I vaguely knew of Xerox Alto, I didn't think to incorporate it into my story...although I do establish Multics as the spiritual predecessor of all -tans
(Also, the lab she was created in is referred to as a holy ground -w-)


At the end of the day, it's your story. Do whatever you want with it.

Admittedly, I didn't think until right now to somehow incorporate Multics into my story. I did, however, have a means of establishing UNIX-tan, Linux-tan, and their descendants into my story. Surely incorporating Multics wouldn't be too hard. :)

Bella

To be honest, avoiding modifications to Futaba Canon and the wider canon of the "original" OS-tans is one of the reasons I gravitated so heavily toward "non-canonical" OS-tans. When I first came here, the original OS-tan canon was more-or-less sacred and anyone who dared to modify or expound upon it was instantly suspect. Then again, Mid-Aughts OSC was an exponentially more SRSBSNS place and such concepts as "headcanons" were unheard of.

Thankfully things are more laid-back now and as long as you don't attempt to claim any personal ideas as THE Canon you should be okay.

OS-tan worldbuilding is a lot different from usual fictional worldbuilding because there's already a rough framework and timeline based in real life history. Because of this, retcons are all but inevitable as we learn more about the systems we personify -- at least if we wish to keep our stories congruent with historical events. As well there's the matter of personal growth as storytellers, sometimes ideas that made sense at one point no longer seem interesting or logical and need to be changed.

Quote from: winduko on July 24, 2014, 08:19:28 pm
...and then there are the times where canon doesn't say anything and history points to a direction I have no desire to go. And there are times where canon points in a direction I don't wish to go, or advised to not go. In both cases I try to find a compromise or just ignore it altogether. And sometimes those decisions are so much better than my previous ideas that I are happy that I was not advised to go in that direction.


I know the feeling. There's nothing more frustrating than those gaps in an a character design or backstory that can't be adequately satisfied by historical events. Sometimes it feels like cheating to invent occurrences to fill in gaps, other times it feels dry and unimaginative to follow historical events with complete faith. This is when having some preexisting frameworks come in handy, since in absence of historical evidence we can always use similar characters or situations to draw conclusions. For example, -tans of a certain type are often portrayed as having common traits (early computer-tans often run in very small social circles, timesharing OS-tans are usually very sociable, Unix-tans have common physical and mental traits, mobile OS-tans are often depicted as being tiny and fairy-like, etc.) -- this makes deducing facts about new OS-tans of these type easier to do.

QuoteAdmittedly, I didn't think until right now to somehow incorporate Multics into my story. I did, however, have a means of establishing UNIX-tan, Linux-tan, and their descendants into my story. Surely incorporating Multics wouldn't be too hard. :)


In fairness, by the 80s and 90s Multics-tan was fairly irrelevant in the wider OS-tan community. However she's massively important to Unix-tan herself and the more historically-minded of the Unix-tans accept her as something of an ancestor so she's still somewhat important in their culture.

Penti-chan

Indeed on retcons; the reason for the split between the old world and new world continuity of my story series was to make is easier for me to weed out some of the stupider aspects (Rodney being a former prince, 2k's "real name" being the internal version number of Windows 2000, etc. etc.)

winduko

Quote from: Bella on July 26, 2014, 12:09:50 pm
To be honest, avoiding modifications to Futaba Canon and the wider canon of the "original" OS-tans is one of the reasons I gravitated so heavily toward "non-canonical" OS-tans. When I first came here, the original OS-tan canon was more-or-less sacred and anyone who dared to modify or expound upon it was instantly suspect. Then again, Mid-Aughts OSC was an exponentially more SRSBSNS place and such concepts as "headcanons" were unheard of.


Well, Mid-Aughts OSC would not have been my place. Expanding the Futaba Canon is my thing, as I have a very strong interest in the Windows OSes, and the Windows 9x series in particular. Considering that ME-tan represents the most recent Windows 9x OS, I'd be a heretic.

Depending on how literally they thought Futaba Canon should be taken, I'd be laughed out based on my opinions of Secchan alone. (Basically, in my opinion, she's supposed to be a heel wrestler as a reference to the Illegal Things that was done by Microsoft to keep their already existing monopolies and gain new ones using the Windows 98 OS. 98 SE may have been chosen for the heel wrestler metaphor because 98 SE was more stable and perhaps more successful, I can't find any proof to [dis]prove the latter yet, than vanilla 98. Where did I get the idea for the heel wrestler metaphor? Nijikaku and research.Then again, Futaba might have done it because it was funny.)

Quote from: Bella on July 26, 2014, 12:09:50 pm
Thankfully things are more laid-back now and as long as you don't attempt to claim any personal ideas as THE Canon you should be okay.


Pfft. If I were to claim my ideas to be THE Canon That Everyone Must Follow, I'd be the biggest liar here. It's only THE Canon in my stories, and even then, the idea of forcing that everyone follows it outside of my stories is disgusting. I don't even mind if people share their differences and how they'd write it differently. I just don't want anyone saying I'm 100% wrong because the story doesn't follow their idea of the OS-tan canon. No one is truly wrong when it comes to OS-tan canon, nor are they truly right due to the inherent subjectiveness of the canon.

Quote from: Bella on July 26, 2014, 12:09:50 pm
OS-tan worldbuilding is a lot different from usual fictional worldbuilding because there's already a rough framework and timeline based in real life history. Because of this, retcons are all but inevitable as we learn more about the systems we personify -- at least if we wish to keep our stories congruent with historical events. As well there's the matter of personal growth as storytellers, sometimes ideas that made sense at one point no longer seem interesting or logical and need to be changed.


The timeline of my stories is in no way congruent with the IRL timeline. It's not even similar, as I actually purposefully put some things out of order for the sake of the story.

But yes. Retcons probably even are necessary. I strive for accuracy until it interferes with the story.

Quote from: Bella on July 26, 2014, 12:09:50 pm
I know the feeling. There's nothing more frustrating than those gaps in an a character design or backstory that can't be adequately satisfied by historical events. Sometimes it feels like cheating to invent occurrences to fill in gaps, other times it feels dry and unimaginative to follow historical events with complete faith. This is when having some preexisting frameworks come in handy, since in absence of historical evidence we can always use similar characters or situations to draw conclusions. For example, -tans of a certain type are often portrayed as having common traits (early computer-tans often run in very small social circles, timesharing OS-tans are usually very sociable, Unix-tans have common physical and mental traits, mobile OS-tans are often depicted as being tiny and fairy-like, etc.) -- this makes deducing facts about new OS-tans of these type easier to do.


Making up events doesn't feel like cheating to me, as I often deem it necessary for the story. And then there are the times where I need to place things out of order for the story to make sense.

As for -tans of a similar kind being similar, at first I didn't have any examples. I then realized that, thanks to retcons, now I do. Early Windows-tans in my story (the 9x-tans plus 3.x and 1.x/2.x) share a similar personality. They tended to have a sort of split personality between silly and serious, becoming more serious as they got older. The only exceptions are Yamada-san (whom was always more responsible than her older sisters) and Cairo (whom actually is of NT descent but in my headcanon she is lumped in with early 9x.)

Quote from: Bella on July 26, 2014, 12:09:50 pm
In fairness, by the 80s and 90s Multics-tan was fairly irrelevant in the wider OS-tan community. However she's massively important to Unix-tan herself and the more historically-minded of the Unix-tans accept her as something of an ancestor so she's still somewhat important in their culture.


Actually, what you said did give me a way to implement Multics-tan. She's the goddess of the Unices and the Linuces.

Quote from: PentiumMMX on July 26, 2014, 12:23:49 pm
Indeed on retcons; the reason for the split between the old world and new world continuity of my story series was to make is easier for me to weed out some of the stupider aspects (Rodney being a former prince, 2k's "real name" being the internal version number of Windows 2000, etc. etc.)


I had to push the reset button on my OS-tan headcanons twice. My headcanon names of the Windows-tans remained intact, however. But a full comprehensive list of my headcanon names for them are not for now. It would significantly lengthen this post.

Penti-chan

I admit, most of the names I use go off of what's listed on the Wiki (Eloise for PDP-11-tan, Saseko for XP-tan, etc.); only one I had to come up with was 2k-tan (Which I borrowed the name "Nichi" from Kari; as it worked for me -w-)

winduko

Fun Fact that is Most Definitely Not Related to Anything of The Day: Saseko means "whore" in Japanese. No, really. Futaba found it funny, I guess.

I like coming up with names for OS-tans.

Sometimes the names are references to anime (Yuno, my headcanon first name of1.x/2.x-tan, is a reference to Hidamari Sketch, as the main character Yuno looks a lot like 1.x/2.x-tan in my opinion.)

Sometimes the name is derived from their codename (Chicago/Shikago/Shikako is my headcanon first name of 95-tan, and clearly Spell My Name with an S is in full effect here thanks to my indecisiveness and that these are all legitimate [even if one of them is a bit odd] romanizations of 鹿子, the kanji for fawn and that means yes, if you really wanted to, you could name your kid Chicago but I don't recommend it.)

Other times I just go with what canon says (Hatsushima Shishou is ME-tan's name in my headcanon. Hatsushima is the canonical surname of WE-tan, who is ME-tan's mother in my headcanon, while Shisyo [Shishou being a more consistent romanization] was the name for an updated ME-tan in the most recent version of Nijikaku.)

Sometimes the names are derived are derived from the OS name (Tsuruko is my headcanon first name of 2k-tan, as when a crane reaches 2000 years old, Japanese myth says their feathers turn all black. Tsuru is a word for crane in Japanese.)

And sometimes Goroawase likes to visit (Azusa, the name of 3.x-tan in my stories, was initially a reference to K-ON, but sa can be a word for three in Japanese.)

As for surnames, it's mostly simple. Windows-tans of NT descent have the surname of Madobe. Early Windows-tans (excepting ME-tan) have the surname of Yamada. DOS-tans (including OS/2-tan, who started off as CP-DOS) have the surname of Shirato (what you get when you type d-o-s in kana imput mode when you're typing in Japanese.) Apple-tans have the surname of McUll (Úll is the Irish word for Apple.)