On Topic[less]

Started by DustiiWolf, November 27, 2013, 11:56:25 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

winduko

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on July 28, 2014, 04:48:37 pm
considering they're all Windows, i never saw much of a reason to differentiate between trees. if nothing else, you could always say the NTs married into it or something.


I will confirm right now that NT-tan married into the Windows family. I've been tempted to say that for a while, but only now has it been relevant to mention. To me I find that idea to make the most sense for why they're together from a story perspective.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on July 28, 2014, 04:48:37 pm
Shiroyuki was the name we agreed on for the Apple ][.


Here's another person who agrees even though she came here years after it was decided.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on July 28, 2014, 04:48:37 pm
hrm, if it helps any, i could always post my sketches for the Comiket. i have too much going on atm to consider picking it back up on a consistent basis, but at least you could see how the first arc of it ended. i was pretty proud of the outcome, anyway. ^^;;


I'd love that, thank you. As for having too much IRL to work on a project, I understand. I'm not attempting to write my fanfic until late December at the earliest, but that's mostly because this semester I have a Creative Writing and a Psychology class, both of which would be useful to have completed before I attempt any major projects, and my longest break of the year (which splits the two semesters) starts in late December.

Chocofreak13

i WISH i had semesters to worry about. that's actually one of the things preventing me from making any headway on any projects outside of KK Anime Reviews and Ace's High. and the only reason i work on Ace's High is because 1. it keeps me looking busy, 2. it distracts me from all the crap going on IRL, and 3, i know how it's going to end/have everything framed out already, just need to fill the flesh in around the bones.

i'll start taking pics when i get home, haha.

winduko

It sounds like they're your main projects anyways. I probably have a lot more time than most high school students because I don't do afterschool things and I don't study outside of doing homework (or even need to for that matter), so I shouldn't be complaining about a lack of time. It just feels like I've had less time to do things since I started high school.

And thank you. :D

Chocofreak13

np. and dayum, you start HS early wherever you are.

Bella

Possibly a bit late to the party but here's the original post detailing Cairo-tan's design.

As for Windows NT-tan and the Windows family, in C-chan's, Aurora's, Stew's, Pent's and my story canons (which are all related for what it's worth), Windows NT-tan was genetically engineered by Microsoft from OpenVMS-tan's "source code" (reflecting the real-world fact that Windows NT is largely based on VMS, sharing a similar architecture and common creator) and has some OS/2-tan genetics in her as well (again reflecting a real-world relation between the two OSes). She was pretty close with Windows 95-tan and Windows 3.1-tan growing up, but shares no blood relation to the Early Windows or 9.x-tan branches. 

As for names, I tend to name my -tans after their creators, or the creator most commonly associated with the OS in question. Linux-tan is Lina Torvalds (after Linus Torvalds), Multics and CTSS-tan are Minerva and Tessa Corbató (after Fernado Corbató), PDP-8-tan is Kate deCastro (after Edson deCastro), most of the DEC-tans are surnamed Olsen or Bell, after the two most prominent figures in DEC engineering and management. When it makes sense, I sometimes use corporation names for -tan surnames; for instance Burroughs MCP-tan is Margaret Burroughs and Bell Labs Unix-tan is Eunice Bell.

Granted, this isn't quite as logical for modern-day -tans (particularly the Windows and Apple-tans).

winduko

Quote from: Bella on July 30, 2014, 02:11:15 am
As for Windows NT-tan and the Windows family, in C-chan's, Aurora's, Stew's, Pent's and my story canons (which are all related for what it's worth), Windows NT-tan was genetically engineered by Microsoft from OpenVMS-tan's "source code" (reflecting the real-world fact that Windows NT is largely based on VMS, sharing a similar architecture and common creator) and has some OS/2-tan genetics in her as well (again reflecting a real-world relation between the two OSes). She was pretty close with Windows 95-tan and Windows 3.1-tan growing up, but shares no blood relation to the Early Windows or 9.x-tan branches.


In my canon, VMS-tan, to keep a long story short, had a child when she nowhere near expected it. Sharkwoman noted that she just didn't have the time to raise a child, so NT-tan was left to the devices of a family named Madobe. She had no idea of her relation to Sharkwoman of all people until she was an adult who had kids of her own, and at least one of them was a huge fan of Sharkwoman. As you can tell, there was a DILEMMA over the fact that her daughter had an idol in her mom whom was never there for her. NT-tan decided that it simply did not matter because she can't bring herself to call VMS-tan her mom at all.

As for her relation to the early Windows or 9x Windows, she is not known to be blood related (though there are many rumours that say her father is OS/2-tan, whom is a first cousin to 1.x/2.x-tan, but second-cousin marriage is perfectly legal in most places, but I'm still iffy about the incest aspect to the point where I am very likely to say no to that idea for the story's sake) but she is definitely married into the Windows family, but at this point I am not sure if the love was with 3.1 or 95. I can see where my ideas just wouldn't work with your continuities though. In those continuities, they would have the Westermarck Effect and would feel like it's wrong for them to want to do it with their sister, adopted or not (and then there's the thing known as they don't even know).

Quote from: Bella on July 30, 2014, 02:11:15 am
As for names, I tend to name my -tans after their creators, or the creator most commonly associated with the OS in question. Linux-tan is Lina Torvalds (after Linus Torvalds), Multics and CTSS-tan are Minerva and Tessa Corbató (after Fernado Corbató), PDP-8-tan is Kate deCastro (after Edson deCastro), most of the DEC-tans are surnamed Olsen or Bell, after the two most prominent figures in DEC engineering and management. When it makes sense, I sometimes use corporation names for -tan surnames; for instance Burroughs MCP-tan is Margaret Burroughs and Bell Labs Unix-tan is Eunice Bell.

Granted, this isn't quite as logical for modern-day -tans (particularly the Windows and Apple-tans).


Not that I haven't tried. For a while, 95-tan was Jessica Silverberg (after Brad Silverberg) and NT-tan was Michalina Cutler (after Dave Cutler), but the idea was scrapped because 1) I couldn't find many other Windows-tans who had a known definite project leader and 2) the Windows-tans were for the most part made by Futaba, so in hindsight, they should have a Japanese name

not that I'll follow that last rule with the Mac-tans, whom are mostly blonde persons and we all know that a majority of blond persons in anime are white

Chocofreak13

i just realized i never actually uploaded the sketch of Cairo.

herp derp ;v;

Bella

@Winduko: Interestingly that sounds almost completely in-character for VMS-tan. Particularly 80s/90s VMS-tan, she really had zero will to have anything to do with children, and the idea of having her own child would probably be even less appealing to her. Of course, I also envision her as being hard asexual and grossed out by the idea of offspring-production (be it produced the "old fashioned way" or grown in a laboratory -- in fact that last bit is one of many reasons she's creeped out by the Unix society) so how she'd have ended up with an unwanted child is a little more out-of-character. ^^;

In our (my, C-chan's, Aurora's, Stew's and Pent's) story canon(s), NT-tan knows nothing of her relationship to VMS despite having been in close contact with each other on several occasions, even fighting each other at one point. It's heavily implied there was some kind of psychological conditioning to keep NT-tan from suspecting anything about VMS (or OS/2) and that VMS-tan started wearing her mask precisely to keep people in the "outside world" from drawing conclusions about hers' and NT-tan's relationship. As it stands, the only Windows-tan who knows for sure is Windows 2k-tan, and she's aware enough to keep the knowledge to herself.

As for incest, that's really a matter of personal preference and I respect you not wanting to include any such plots in your stories. Personally I'm less bothered by it (fiction only, obviously) and imagine it's not particularly taboo among OS-tans given the tendency for "related" systems to be the most psychologically and biologically "compatible".

On the subject of NT-tan's beau, I imagine 95-tan would best fit the bill. In our canon(s), 95-tan and NT-tan are close friends already, and 3.1-tan is viewed as something of a motherly/senior figure to the "newer" generations of Windows-tans.

As for names, interesting you used Cutler also: RSX, VMS and VAXELN-tan are Risa, Vanessa and Ellen Cutler, respectively. (The name becomes unintentionally punny when you consider that they're all supposed to be brilliant swordswomen.) Though the named-after-real-life-creators convention does get difficult when dealing with newer corporate OSes, many of which have large development teams and no one true creator. This is why I've never attempted it for either the Windows or Apple families. Though you've proven that it can be done, if you're willing to ignore some of the effects on continuity (i.e. the Windows-tans being canonically Japanese, or at least residing in Japan).

winduko

Quote from: Bella on August 01, 2014, 12:58:37 pm
@Winduko: Interestingly that sounds almost completely in-character for VMS-tan. Particularly 80s/90s VMS-tan, she really had zero will to have anything to do with children, and the idea of having her own child would probably be even less appealing to her. Of course, I also envision her as being hard asexual and grossed out by the idea of offspring-production (be it produced the "old fashioned way" or grown in a laboratory -- in fact that last bit is one of many reasons she's creeped out by the Unix society) so how she'd have ended up with an unwanted child is a little more out-of-character. ^^;


I am trying to work out that kink, and that's the reason why I can't explain the process as to how NT-tan was made. Sadly, this results in a plothole and I'm trying to avoid that. My best guess is that she was a test-tube baby whom was sent to one of her genetic sources, VMS-tan. VMS-tan here had no clue that she even had a clone-daughter-thing, and now she's expected to raise it? Screw that. Let's send little Michalina (crap I named her, I have to get rid of her to stop myself from getting too attached to this child I didn't want to begin with) to a family who is willing to raise her. Japanese family named Madobe wants the child. Sure. Let's give them the child. The rest is history.

Quote from: Bella on August 01, 2014, 12:58:37 pm
In our (my, C-chan's, Aurora's, Stew's and Pent's) story canon(s), NT-tan knows nothing of her relationship to VMS despite having been in close contact with each other on several occasions, even fighting each other at one point. It's heavily implied there was some kind of psychological conditioning to keep NT-tan from suspecting anything about VMS (or OS/2) and that VMS-tan started wearing her mask precisely to keep people in the "outside world" from drawing conclusions about hers' and NT-tan's relationship. As it stands, the only Windows-tan who knows for sure is Windows 2k-tan, and she's aware enough to keep the knowledge to herself.


NT-tan thinks that it's under wraps, and only two or three people aside from her and her biological mother know. It's not hard to figure out, so those whom have seen Sharkwoman unmasked know. The only reason why not everyone would know is because not many have seen Sharkwoman unmasked.

I'm going to find a way to incorporate OS/2-tan into NT-tan's backstory. I can't ignore the influence of OS/2 on Windows NT.

Quote from: Bella on August 01, 2014, 12:58:37 pm
As for incest, that's really a matter of personal preference and I respect you not wanting to include any such plots in your stories. Personally I'm less bothered by it (fiction only, obviously) and imagine it's not particularly taboo among OS-tans given the tendency for "related" systems to be the most psychologically and biologically "compatible".


Well, the OS-tans in my work are very close to human. In fact, the only thing that separates them from other humans is that, for the most part, they live in a secluded city to contain their supernatural abilities. It has spread to other places thanks to the fact that one person was allowed outside, and she reproduced. Thankfully, not everyone has the genetics needed to develop such abilities, and the only reasons why that one person was allowed to leave was because of her lack of genetic ability and the lack of knowledge that this kind of thing was contagious and not just linked to genetics.

That's why there's no incest, because they are humans with supernatural influences (on top of being based on an OS and likely not being aware of it).

Quote from: Bella on August 01, 2014, 12:58:37 pm
On the subject of NT-tan's beau, I imagine 95-tan would best fit the bill. In our canon(s), 95-tan and NT-tan are close friends already, and 3.1-tan is viewed as something of a motherly/senior figure to the "newer" generations of Windows-tans.


I was debating that to try for accuracy, but I was heavily leaning towards 95. 3.1 isn't that much older than either of them, but she is planned to be seen as a model person that both of them heavily respect.

Quote from: Bella on August 01, 2014, 12:58:37 pm
As for names, interesting you used Cutler also: RSX, VMS and VAXELN-tan are Risa, Vanessa and Ellen Cutler, respectively. (The name becomes unintentionally punny when you consider that they're all supposed to be brilliant swordswomen.) Though the named-after-real-life-creators convention does get difficult when dealing with newer corporate OSes, many of which have large development teams and no one true creator. This is why I've never attempted it for either the Windows or Apple families. Though you've proven that it can be done, if you're willing to ignore some of the effects on continuity (i.e. the Windows-tans being canonically Japanese, or at least residing in Japan).


The only reason why I could do it for 95-tan is because the Chicago project has a lot of public information surrounding it, and alongside NT-tan and possibly 2k-tan if you want to say Cutler is NT's maiden name, they are the only Windows-tans whom could easily have a real name applied to them based off of the creator. Sure, by proxy I could have the later versions of 9x and NT have their surnames, but it still breaks canon and the guy in charge of the Windows 2000 project is Jim Allchin (or at least was the guy who decided that Windows 2000 doesn't have a codename), but Cutler was involved with the Windows 2000 project.

As you can tell, it isn't easy, but it is possible with (some of) the Windows-tans. I don't know enough about the Mac-tans to be able to let you know how I'd name them, however.

Bella

Hmm, s'not too far off the mark from our conclusions about NT-tan's "birth". According to C-chan (who got the ball rolling on the creation of the wider OS-tan universe as we know it) both NT-tan and Windows 1.0-tan were created in the lab, so the biggest difference in your story universe is what happened after her creation.

Interestingly, you can draw a parallel between NT-tan being placed in VMS-tan's care and subsequently rejected with the commercial non-success of Windows NT on the DEC Alpha architecture (which was then the primary architecture for VMS), support for which was dropped after version 4.0.

Quote from: winduko on August 01, 2014, 03:21:19 pm
NT-tan thinks that it's under wraps, and only two or three people aside from her and her biological mother know. It's not hard to figure out, so those whom have seen Sharkwoman unmasked know. The only reason why not everyone would know is because not many have seen Sharkwoman unmasked.


In our story canon, only two -tans are CONFIRMED to have knowledge of NT's and VMS-tan's relationship, Windows 2K and Unix-tan. I would argue that the DECs and senior-ish minicomputer and mainframe-tans also know, but the DEC's certainly aren't talking and the mainframes undoubtedly give zero fucks about it, making it more-or-less a non-issue. I imagine few contemporary-tans are aware of VMS's presence, much less what she looks like beneath the mask. (An allusion to VMS being such a niche OS these days.)

QuoteI'm going to find a way to incorporate OS/2-tan into NT-tan's backstory. I can't ignore the influence of OS/2 on Windows NT.


According to the Annex Project, they're supposed to be half-sisters. Of course ... not quite in the usual human sense of the word, so IDK how that would translate into your universe.

QuoteWell, the OS-tans in my work are very close to human. In fact, the only thing that separates them from other humans is that, for the most part, they live in a secluded city to contain their supernatural abilities. It has spread to other places thanks to the fact that one person was allowed outside, and she reproduced. Thankfully, not everyone has the genetics needed to develop such abilities, and the only reasons why that one person was allowed to leave was because of her lack of genetic ability and the lack of knowledge that this kind of thing was contagious and not just linked to genetics.

That's why there's no incest, because they are humans with supernatural influences (on top of being based on an OS and likely not being aware of it).


Fair enough! There seems to be some royal-family-type-logic going on in my story universe -- related systems (either by blood or faction) tend to pair up. LINC/PDP-8, Unix/Linux, Plan9/Slackware, PDP-11/various Unices, etc. Then again, despite being near-copies of human beings biologically, they're decidedly not human, and people in general seem to stay out of their relationships for the most part.

QuoteAs you can tell, it isn't easy, but it is possible with (some of) the Windows-tans. I don't know enough about the Mac-tans to be able to let you know how I'd name them, however.


Really, the only real-life surname I could even imagine giving the Mac-tans is "Jobs", and that could be problematic for a variety of reasons.

Penti-chan

Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Interestingly, you can draw a parallel between NT-tan being placed in VMS-tan's care and subsequently rejected with the commercial non-success of Windows NT on the DEC Alpha architecture (which was then the primary architecture for VMS), support for which was dropped after version 4.0


As a fun fact, very early beta builds of Windows 2000 still had Alpha support; I'll have to dig through my notes from when I was still tinkering with the beta versions to figure out when support was dropped.

winduko

August 03, 2014, 12:34:50 am #266 Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 10:41:25 am by winduko
Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Hmm, s'not too far off the mark from our conclusions about NT-tan's "birth". According to C-chan (who got the ball rolling on the creation of the wider OS-tan universe as we know it) both NT-tan and Windows 1.0-tan were created in the lab, so the biggest difference in your story universe is what happened after her creation.


While I do agree on NT-tan, in my universe, Windows 1.0-tan was not made artificially. However, her mother and aunt, MS-DOS-tan and PC-DOS-tan respectively, are artificial humans, so Windows 1.0-tan is half-artificial human, her daughters are a quarter-artificial human, her granddaughters are an eighth-artificial human, and so on (granddaughers are as far as I've gotten however, and I doubt it'll expand beyond that with OS-tans).

MS-DOS-tan and PC-DOS-tan were made in a completely different way than NT-tan, however. The former two were made with magic, while the latter was made with technology.

Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Interestingly, you can draw a parallel between NT-tan being placed in VMS-tan's care and subsequently rejected with the commercial non-success of Windows NT on the DEC Alpha architecture (which was then the primary architecture for VMS), support for which was dropped after version 4.0.


Ahh. Good to know there's a historical explanation for this. I didn't think about that.

Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
In our story canon, only two -tans are CONFIRMED to have knowledge of NT's and VMS-tan's relationship, Windows 2K and Unix-tan. I would argue that the DECs and senior-ish minicomputer and mainframe-tans also know, but the DEC's certainly aren't talking and the mainframes undoubtedly give zero fucks about it, making it more-or-less a non-issue. I imagine few contemporary-tans are aware of VMS's presence, much less what she looks like beneath the mask. (An allusion to VMS being such a niche OS these days.)


That makes sense now that I think about it. This whole thing.

Few people are aware of Sharkwoman's impact in superheroism, but her impact is still felt by society as a whole through the actions of her biological daughter (kind of) and granddaughter, especially the latter. That's how VMS being a niche OS would easily translate into my world, as well as the effects of the Windows NT line as a whole (kind of, as the span of time is not historically accurate, because it is more accurate to human life spans, but I try to make it as equal as possible and sometimes that just can't be done).

Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
According to the Annex Project, they're supposed to be half-sisters. Of course ... not quite in the usual human sense of the word, so IDK how that would translate into your universe.


Not too well. However, now that I think about it, there probably still wouldn't be incest if they were half-sisters, but there's the matter of significant age difference because this is one of those situations that calls for a lack of syncing with real life age differences. OS/2-tan's mother is the aforementioned PC-DOS-tan, and Windows 1.0-tan is her cousin and childhood friend. Windows 1.0-tan is Windows 95-tan's mother, and I already said that NT-tan is 95-tan's lover. This could easily work without the latter pairing being incest though.

However, the age differences between OS/2-tan and NT-tan don't exactly matter as the latter is an artificial human. I'm going to leave it ambiguous at the moment.

But I do have a backup plan. OS/2-tan is supposed to be the post-defection Cairo's mentor. Because 95-tan and NT-tan were Cairo's peers, maybe they (possibly barring 95-tan, as it could be historically accurate either way) temporarily trained under OS/2-tan and later defected from her, but Cairo defected again and stayed under OS/2-tan's wing.

Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Fair enough! There seems to be some royal-family-type-logic going on in my story universe -- related systems (either by blood or faction) tend to pair up. LINC/PDP-8, Unix/Linux, Plan9/Slackware, PDP-11/various Unices, etc. Then again, despite being near-copies of human beings biologically, they're decidedly not human, and people in general seem to stay out of their relationships for the most part.


Actually, the Unices and Linuces aren't exactly humans, but I think (but I don't exactly remember if I did or not) I mentioned this a while ago and that's another can of worms. Even then, they can create humans (Xenix created the aforementioned MS-DOS-tan and PC-DOS-tan as advanced [being the best word I can use] clones of QDOS-tan) and reproduce with humans (this is why the OS X-tans exist).

Also, funny that you mention royal families. Royal (sort of) families are a fairly important thing in the area where they live (being sorta disconnected from the rest of America might do that to a city). The two major ones (the ones that represent Mac and Windows) have a feud of sorts, but it shows signs of stopping in the near future. The only people who are currently interested in perpetuating the situation are the current leaders of the families, 95-tan and Mac OS X-tan (the one that represents all of the versions to some degree).

Amusingly enough, NT-tan and Rhapsody-tan, the ones with the job description of "preventing the leader from doing any action she probably will regret when it comes to the other family" are extremely close friends. I believe this part is already in the expanded universe.

Quote from: Bella on August 02, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Really, the only real-life surname I could even imagine giving the Mac-tans is "Jobs", and that could be problematic for a variety of reasons.


The OS X-tans? I feel inclined to say yes because NeXTSTEP. Classic Mac-tans? No. Just no.

Quote from: PentiumMMX on August 02, 2014, 11:50:54 pm
As a fun fact, very early beta builds of Windows 2000 still had Alpha support; I'll have to dig through my notes from when I was still tinkering with the beta versions to figure out when support was dropped.


I think this is the rationale for VMS-tan's mentor-student relationship with 2k-tan? And if it wasn't...

...look at this historic evidence! There, now we have a reason historically to do that.

More specifically the DEC Multia, the variety of Alpha-based (and Intel-based) that's to run Windows NT in the first place.

This easily translates to VMS-tan training 2k-tan, but 2k-tan eventually moved on. This is more or less what happened in my canon anyways.

There are other ways to interpret that, but I'm going to choose to interpret that the way I have stated.

Krizonar

Quote from: winduko on August 03, 2014, 12:34:50 am
The OS X-tans? I feel inclined to say yes because NeXTSTEP. Classic Mac-tans? No. Just no.

He was the founder of the company and was the leader of the Macintosh project.

Any reason for the no?

Bella

Quote from: Krizonar on August 04, 2014, 04:38:54 pm
He was the founder of the company and was the leader of the Macintosh project.

Any reason for the no?


I was wondering the same thing.

I presume it has to do with Steve Jobs being forced from Apple, but if it was a "family name" by then I'm not sure why it would change.

Quote from: winduko on August 03, 2014, 12:34:50 am
Amusingly enough, NT-tan and Rhapsody-tan, the ones with the job description of "preventing the leader from doing any action she probably will regret when it comes to the other family" are extremely close friends. I believe this part is already in the expanded universe.


Sure enough. NT-tan and Rhapsody-tan are considered the de-facto "diplomats" of their families and are actually good friends with one another. As seen in the wiki logo. ^_^

Penti-chan

Wouldn't Apple I-tan's last name be Wozniak; given that Woz was the lead designer of the Apple I?