Topicless thread

[winduko]

111 times out of 10, it's because religion :/

Can't really put it better than this. That was both their excuses (to some degree) for being homophobic. One of them even said that all religions are against same-sex marriage. When told that, no, not all religions are against same-sex marriage, he said that all modern religions are Abrahamic. The other one doesn't support it because he thinks it's disgusting.

To be fair, one of them was a very articulate 9-year-old at the time, so I can't blame him too much for not getting the subtext. The other one is about my age, and this happened almost two years ago. He didn't seem to catch my subtext either, and I knew that a year prior to it, I'd have caught the subtext, but maybe not when I was nine. Then again with my "lets make it as obvious as I can" thing may have allowed me to realize that at least the two females were kissing one another at that age. I was also a similarly articulate 9-year-old, but I never really chatted with people on the internet until I was 13.

[Chocofreak13]

OSC seems to be made up of several people who were self-aware from a young age. i was already questioning authority, religion, and reality by age 5 or 6? i feel kinda proud. -w-

also, "all modern religions are abrahamic"

um......

Hinduism
Buddhism
Wicca/Paganism
Satanism
Atheism
Agnosticism
Taoism
Shintoism
Zoroastrianism
Sikhism
Santeria
Voudoo
Various Shamanistic Religions
Native American Spiritual Practices
Aboriginal Mythologies


^none of these are Abrahamic in origin

[winduko]

Exactly. He actually even said that Buddhism (and maybe a few others, but I know he said it about Buddhism) is an ancient religion.

[Nichi]

...Wow. Just, wow *facepalm*

Also, indeed; I've questioned athority for as long as I remember, and religion since I was about 10 or so

On lunch now. Roast beef sandvich~ > w <

[winduko]

Of course, I'm a sad pathetic person because that person is nine and I knew that I wasn't well aware of non-Abrahamic religions then. Not going to lump either of you two in the same group as me, as either of you may have thought I was talking about the older one though.

I have been questioning my parents' invasion of privacy since I was ten, and religion to some degree since I was eleven. Then again, I wasn't raised by very religious parents. They're both Christians, but I was never taken to church. I'm currently reading the Bible (and have since last summer, but I'm a mega procrastinator), but I know that it's not something to take lessons from.

[Bella]

As far as using Abrahamic religions to justify homophobia: Leviticus DOES contain a passage that could be interpreted as a condemnation of male homosexuality but it may also be a condemnation of the old Greek practice of "pederasty" (relationships between adult men and adolescent boys) or adultery. It's still a matter of scholarly debate as far as I know. Leviticus also bans such practices as eating fat, touching ritually-impure animals, picking grapes that have fallen off the vine, going to church for a period after giving birth, eating shellfish and a host of others the average homophobic Christian doesn't give a single fuck about, so it raises the curious question of why they would cling to the single passage that has to do with gays (maybe). Not that any of these rules should matter: according to the New Testament, Christ absolved his followers from the burden of following them. Therefore you can argue it's actually blasphemous for a Christian to cite Leviticus as a valid reason to discriminate against gays, since Christians who uphold Leviticus are basically implying that Christ DIDN'T cleanse their souls of sin and that his sacrifice wasn't good enough for them. Which means they aren't even Christians anymore.

Leviticus still supposedly applies to followers of Judaism but as far as I know the only groups who follow them (pardon the term) religiously are Orthodox & Hassidic Jews. Israel, which is a Jewish-governed and fairly conservative nation, is tolerant of gays, there's a thriving LGBTQ community and widespread support for same-sex marriage. It's currently the only nation in the Levant that can say this of itself (although Turkey has been getting better in regards to LGBTQ rights in recent times).

My knowledge of Islam is not comprehensive enough to speak about their stance on gay rights. Many Islamic nations have harsh penalties for same-sex romantic/sexual behavior but others do not. It's a massive religion though, more than a billion and a half adherents, so it's irresponsible to make generalizations here.

The Baha'i religion treats homosexuality as a pathological condition and doesn't allow same-sex marriage but I'm not sure they consider it sinful per se. Again, I'm not knowledgeable about this religion to speak with certainty.

Rounding back to Christianity for a moment, it's worth noting that quite a few denominations are becoming accepting of LGBTQ+ rights and many now accept same-sex marriage. Christian excuses for hatred of gays are rapidly running out. Of course, people will twist their religious and spiritual beliefs so I don't anticipate a total eradication of homophobic thought from these communities. Hell, even among secularists and atheists there are homophobes — the ones I've encountered use "nature's laws" as a way to suggest LGBTQ+ folks are impaired or damaged. Just goes to show that assholes will find reasons to justify their bigotry no matter how illogical it may be.

[winduko]

I'm also going to say that, in Israel, the only kind of Judaism that is permitted is Orthodox if memory serves. That would mean that, based on what we know, Israel is the only country in the world where such a ban wouldn't be completely unreasonable.

And yet over half of the country supports same-sex marriage. 61% of Israelis support same-sex marriage as of 2009. Compare that to 55% of people in the United States, a country that permits freedom of religion, and the majority religion has no reason to be against same-sex marriage even if the US were a theocracy, as of May 2014.

[Nichi]

Indeed on people citing the old testament as reason *cough my mom and her entire family*

Also, as far as questioning things, I've also questioned my own gender for years; often feeling my mom wanted a son so badly that she forcefully raised her secondborn daughter as a boy (I mean, I never fit in with the other boys my age when I was younger :/)

[winduko]

Sometimes I question my gender, and sometimes I don't. Right now I'm not, but other times I wonder what would happen if I were a male. And other times I don't feel gendered.

As for feeling like you were raised to be the gender you're not... I can't imagine anything like that. That sounds very mentally painful to go through. :(

[Nichi]

Indeed; I've since come to terms with being male...although I do sometimes stop and wonder if I'd be happier if I was female :\

[Bella]

Actually, no particular sect of Judaism is enforced in Israel. In fact there's no enforcement of any religion, period, although the government is obviously shaped by Judaism. Not sure why LGBTQ rights are so widely supported there but I suspect the rather sizable reform and secular population is the answer.

As for gender things, I've experienced mild-moderate dysphoria surrounding some of my, ahem, parts in ways I don't think are usual for cis women, but at the same time I'm comfortable being feminine-presenting and don't think the trouble of ridding myself of those parts would be worth whatever benefit it could bring. My gender is my own; I don't like to label it or put it in a box. Honestly I just prefer to be thought of as "female" and leave that as that. 

[Nichi]

Indeed. In my case, the reason I can't really consider a sex change is because of the headache as far as family (For my own safety, I'd have to cut ties with most of them; mostly on mom's side of the family, whom are backwoods southern Christians. Not too sure how my dad's family would react)

On a different note, I saw my old car parked at work, not far from me. Apparently it's running now...and has a Duck Dynasty sticker on it >_>;
(They got the rust polished off; only way I recognized it was it still had my old license plates and the cracked centerpiece on the trunk lid)

[winduko]

Actually, no particular sect of Judaism is enforced in Israel. In fact there's no enforcement of any religion, period, although the government is obviously shaped by Judaism.

Ah. You learn something new everyday. :) I happened to read somewhere that, to be a citizen of Israel, your religion must be Orthodox Judaism.

As for gender things, I've experienced mild-moderate dysphoria surrounding some of my, ahem, parts in ways I don't think are usual for cis women, but at the same time I'm comfortable being feminine-presenting and don't think the trouble of ridding myself of those parts would be worth whatever benefit it could bring. My gender is my own; I don't like to label it or put it in a box. Honestly I just prefer to be thought of as "female" and leave that as that. 

Except for the dysphoria part (I never really felt dysphoria), this describes me very well too. I just get confused about my identity. I just say "screw it" and not be open about my gender, as I don't know what the hell I should call it. Though if forced to choose, I pick female because that's what my body is.

Indeed. In my case, the reason I can't really consider a sex change is because of the headache as far as family (For my own safety, I'd have to cut ties with most of them; mostly on mom's side of the family, whom are backwoods southern Christians. Not too sure how my dad's family would react)

My parents aren't that way, but I'm not interested in letting them know of my inability to know what gender I am. They said that they don't care if I'm a lesbian or not, but at this point I'd rather not tell them anything. :/

[Nichi]

Indeed. My mom used to always punish me for trying to wear my sister's dresses, so nowadays I just do it when she's away or behind closed doors :\

So, yesterday at work was kind of "bleh", roast beef sandwich aside. Had one customer claim I'm "slacking off" when I know nothing about the GPS device she demanded information on, had a coworker (One I don't care much for) snap at me when I'm just trying to ask him what the fuck do I do next with processing this contract for a customer because he was on the phone (I've never run a contract for a customer before, so I barely know what to do, and he was the only person over there that has done it before and could help me), and then the old hag in photolab I despise so much was there (Someone my sister was renting an apartment from a few years back, and had problems with. My sister refuses to work there because of her...and yet, it's ok to force me to work there >_>; ).

So glad I obtained the info I need to finish up that application for the hospital in Tyler; so maybe I can get out quickly

EDIT: So my mom now has a Mini Cooper; since dad has taken away her Avenger. TBH, I can understand her making a big deal out of that one -w-
(Also, tempted to maybe get a Ford Fiesta for myself; as it's not much more expensive than the used Corolla I was looking at >w>;; )

[Chocofreak13]

why has the avenger been taken away...?

also, IT'S A FUCKING MIRACLE MY TORRENTS WORK HERE


(@gender: the only gender change i ever really cared about was being about as biased as a GI Joe. i could care less about what gender i am since thinking about it makes me feel all squicky. i hate having periods, i love having boobs. i hate being more likely to get raped, i love being able to wear whatever i want with no flak from society. end of story.)