Hot Button Topics (religion, politics, sports)

Started by Simonorged, January 23, 2013, 11:38:01 am

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LeaflameSD

March 26, 2013, 08:00:51 pm #450 Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 10:45:21 am by LeaflameSD
I know birth control doesn't work all the time, but I was talking about the fact that people *don't* use it sometimes.

Penti-chan

@Birth control: I'd like to see more male birth control in existence, since honestly I'm not 100% sure if I'd want to have kids or not, and am sometimes uncomfortable with the thought of being capable of getting someone pregnant .___.

Chocofreak13

March 26, 2013, 11:09:02 pm #452 Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 11:12:32 pm by Chocofreak13
@leaf: define "perfect life"? cause there are plenty of people out there who wish they hadn't been born.

@bells: the very idea of being poked and prodded in that way is enough to send me into a crippling mental freak out for days, so i support that movement to get the pill without strings attached.

EDIT: [spoiler]relevant to this discussion
[/spoiler]

NejinOniwa

Plunder and pillage their cities, take all their riches and women! No amount of birth control can stop the mighty viking horde from multiplying! EVEN OUR SPERM HAVE AXES!!!
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

Chocofreak13

nej, is that a statement of intent? oh myyyyyyyyy.

NejinOniwa

Statement of intent? More like statement of historical event.
I already did it and nobody noticed
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

Chocofreak13

wait, i'm pregnant? WE'RE ALL PREGNANT!? .__.


well, at least my kids will kick some ass. :\

NejinOniwa

March 27, 2013, 03:43:55 am #457 Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 03:46:03 am by NejinOniwa
I CAME IN THE NIGHT, I CAME THROUGH THE WIRE
I CAME WITH MY MIGHT, I CAME WITH MY FIRE
I CAME OUT OF SIGHT, A GHOSTLY WIGHT
TO COME INSIDE EVERYONE I CONSPIRE
AND NOBODY KNOWS HOW I DID IT
NOBODY KNOWS HOW I KNOCKED THEM UP
I DID IT WHEN THEY WERE DOWN AND OUT
I DID IT 'TIL THEY WERE ALL CREAMED AND BLOUT
SOON THERE'LL BE DEMONSPAWN BECKONING FRIGHT
AS THE NIGHTWANDERER'S LAUGHTER HAUNTS THE NIGHT.

I don't write slashfics, I write POETRY
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

Simonorged

March 27, 2013, 08:33:19 am #458 Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 08:48:58 am by Simonorged
Yeah I haven't really anything to say on Birth control,
Honestly if you want to use it, use it.
If you don't, you don't have to.
I see sterilization as a better choice, if of course you know that you never want to have kids.


My only qualms are with the eventual reproduction. I firmly believe that everyone should at least have a chance to decide for themselves whether or not they want to live, even the unborn.

Simon was here :P<br />

Chocofreak13

fair enough. tbh i support people's views if they think everyone should choose for themselves. :\

@nej: oh NOOOOOOOOES. guess i should think twice about having you sleep in the same room if you come back over. .__.
also, i'd like to see this "poetry".

Bella

Quote from: Simonorged on March 27, 2013, 08:33:19 amMy only qualms are with the eventual reproduction. I firmly believe that everyone should at least have a chance to decide for themselves whether or not they want to live, even the unborn.


Ignoring the fact that the embryos / fetuses can't decide anything, since they have approximately the same self-awareness faculties as a potted cactus, I can respect the rights of others to be anti-abortion as long as they ALSO respect the rights of people to be pro-choice and understand that abortion needs to remain legal for very important health / safety reasons.

For instance, Vice President Joe Biden is a good example of this. He claims to be personally pro-life on religious grounds, but also says that he respects the rights of people to be pro-choice or seek abortions and would never attempt to outlaw the procedure.

There are many reasons why abortion needs to remain legal, not least of which being that outlawing abortion absolutely does NOT stop people from getting them - it only makes it difficult and dangerous. Abortion has been happening since the beginning of human society - very likely before then, even, considering that many species of animal have the ability to induce miscarriage (horses come to mind, I've read that in wild horse bands if there's any sort of pack mix-up and a mare is pregnant with a "beta stallion's" foal, the other horses will kick and beat that mare until the fetus miscarries) - and has gone through various legal / social statuses. For example, until the Middle Ages the Catholic Church was A-OK with abortion on grounds that a fetus didn't gain a soul until "the quickening", the point at which the mother first felt the fetus move.  Only later did they decide upon a "the soul is implanted at the point of conception" doctrine, which made abortion a sin under Church law. Or another example, abortion was legal in the early United States until the point of "quickening", and only began to be outlawed by various states in the 1880s.

There's generally nothing that can stop a person who doesn't want to be pregnant from (making an attempt at) ending their pregnancy. Beatings, physically forcing the fetus out with external pressure, consuming poison, forcing things inside the uterus and other methods too graphic to mention here were all used, and as one can surely infer, many people were badly injured or killed in the process. And this wasn't just something that occurred in the "old days" -  up until the legalization of abortion in Roe v. Wade in 1973, people were dying every day from unsafe abortions, regardless of age, wealth or social standing. Here's an excellent but chilling account of pre-Roe abortions, it's disturbing but absolutely worth a read. (People need to be aware of what it was like back then - in the same way that we should be aware of what slavery was like, of the displacement and killing of native groups by colonial and imperial settlers, the realities of the Holocaust and other genocides, and other sickening injustices throughout history.)

Abortion is ancient and very ingrained into human society - to a point where the desire to be rid of unwanted pregnancies likely a part of our NATURE as humans, as real as the urge that many people feel to bear and nurture (wanted) children. There will be no changing that - only making it more (or less) difficult or dangerous.

In short, people have the right to be anti-choice, but they also have to realize that abortion won't be going away - not even if it's made illegal - and that harassing pro-choice people will no more effect change than pissing will put out a forest fire. Don't like abortion? Don't have one. But don't assume to know the circumstances of those having abortions, or pass judgement on them for having a legitimate, legal and millennia-old medical procedure.

Simonorged

March 27, 2013, 01:31:57 pm #461 Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 02:22:42 pm by Simonorged
Quote from: Bella on March 27, 2013, 01:30:27 pm

Ignoring the fact that the embryos / fetuses can't decide anything, since they have approximately the same self-awareness faculties as a potted cactus, I can respect the rights of others to be anti-abortion as long as they ALSO respect the rights of people to be pro-choice and understand that abortion needs to remain legal for very important health / safety reasons.


I was aware of this when I said it. People will do what they want, and what they have to do.
And what about the morning after pill? That would be better than an abortion if caught in time, seeing as the embryo wouldn't even be one yet, just a small cluster of cells. But there is a big difference between a potted cactus and fetus.

While a potted cactus will never have that level of intelligence, if the fetus is left to mature and grow, it will. If that was the case it would be perfectly fine to kill new born's up to six months old, or maybe even later since I didn't start to form memories until I was at least two.

Regardless to the slight contradiction, my earlier statement stays the same.
Simon was here :P<br />

Chocofreak13

eventually we'll have developed implant chips that will alert a woman to her pregnancy when it happens, and that same tech will allow her to keep it or discard it as it happens. in the meantime, abortions~

LeaflameSD

I'm not so crazy about our bodies being replaced with microchips and stuff. Pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and I think people should be able to keep or abort the baby naturally. But hey, technology is advancing, and it's not really my choice, is it?


Simonorged

Simon was here :P<br />