Concepts for New and Split Annex Factions

Started by VolareVia, March 28, 2019, 03:21:30 pm

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VolareVia

March 28, 2019, 03:21:30 pm Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 10:42:02 am by VolareVia Reason: Things Aurora and I discussed last night that I swore I had here but didn't.
I have my own big ideas, which will come in time, but for now, some ideas for new (and splits within existing) Annex factions.

As times change, politics change, and I feel like some Annex factions really should change with the times.

In the mid-2010s, systemd, a controversial init system, started to be adopted by Linux-tans. However, many Linux-tans didn't like this. This rocked the boat with the Unix-tans and more conservative, pro-Unix Philosophy, Linux-tans. However, due to the Unix portion of the LUC, the more conservative element won out, and the pro systemd Linux-tans have to start anew.

Systemd has many political implications in the Unix world that hasn't been accounted for yet.

Who would support systemd?
  • Red Hat-tans
  • Debian-based-tans, with some exceptions
  • Arch-based-tans

Who wouldn't support systemd? The OSes in the page below:
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

But notable -tans would include:
  • Devuan and derivatives
  • Slackware
  • Gentoo (though more moderate, as systemd is an option)

I am sure that some would be with the Unix-tans, others would form their own faction, and others yet would join the User Space Gang. I am sure that Gentoo would join the User Space Gang in light of the systemd controversy.

Here are some posts that explain systemd very well:
https://lwn.net/Articles/578209/
https://lwn.net/Articles/578210/

Also, here's a just plain oversight, a faction for Free Software Foundation-approved distros:

The Free Software Foundation is a group founded by GNU Hurd-tan to fight the evils of IBM-Microsoft and Apple and other proprietary companies. However, Linux-tans started to show up, and one that really got Hurd's attention was Debian-tan, whom the faction funded from 1994 to 1995, and was the faction's leader until before 2007, when Debian-tan left due to a worrying trend towards extremism.

Nowadays, they are very hostile towards anyone they perceive to be as "non-free", even other open source OS-tans.

Who is a part of this faction? The OSes in the links below:
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-non-gnu-distros.html

I really don't have a name for the faction, but I'm sure the abbreviation might be FSF.

And finally, a more silly faction, the Attention Kmart Shoppers:

A vaporwave-inspired club, lead by a 95-tan who had a change of heart, and opted to distance herself from Microsoft after Windows 10-tan expelled all other -tans in 2015. She has befriended many non-Windows-tans who also like her sense of aesthetic.

Who is a part of this faction?
  • 9x-tans
  • Likely any pre-Vista Windows-tan, honestly.
  • MaybeProbably some Mac-tans, as they're actually really vaporwave
  • OS/2 and likely some other members of the ASC that didn't join other factions who didn't want to retire.
  • ArcaOS, as technically she was never a part of the ASC as per my super secret timeline
  • Any OS-tan that likes vaporwave can join if they want honestly

In all seriousness, I am sure the faction itself exists in some form, as Windows 10-tan likely did drive the older Windows-tans out. However, who takes charge would influence how the faction, and this is a silly example if 95-tan were the one who took charge.

Also, I see 95 as having had a change of heart inevitable for reasons that I'm not elaborating on here besides the fact that I think she might be a distant relative of the Mac-tans.

But yeah, what do you here think about the new factions?

Halian

I'm not a fan of the vaporwave faction, especially not with Windows 95-tan as the leader, as, to my recollection, it would be extremely out of character.

VolareVia

March 29, 2019, 09:55:01 am #2 Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 06:49:55 pm by VolareVia Reason: Making some factual edits
Eh, Aurora and I discussed how character development could happen, and how it was even planned over a decade ago.

Think of this as more a part of the Appendix thing we discussed in Discord.

I'll even admit that the faction wasn't meant to be taken too seriously, and that certain details could be changed.

Anyways, have another faction:

The 3.14 Society:
A faction dedicated to single board computers, and the wonders of the low power processor (such as the Atom and the various ARM processors). The people of this faction support computers and the education of such for everyone. While in some ways, the bring back the wonders of the micros of the 80s, they seek to be versatile, being able to perform any task for a relatively low price.

  • Raspberry Pi-tan (leader)
  • Raspbian-tan
  • RISC OS-tan (formerly from the ASC)
  • RaspBSD-tan
  • RetroPie-tan
  • BeagleBoard-tan
  • PandaBoard-tan
  • BananaPi-tan
  • Intel NUC-tan
  • Honestly, any SOC Hardware-tan or Software-tan is welcome to join.

Penti-chan


VolareVia

Here's a faction that I mentioned in the Discord, but wanted to talk about here.

The House of Pippin:
A branch of the House of Mac that was fired in the mid-90s. The only one allowed to stay was System 7.5-tan, their matriarch, but she left the House of Mac. Why is unknown, but it is clear that she cares a lot for her many children.

Members:
  • System 7.5
  • All the Mac Clones, including the Pippin
  • A/UX?
  • Newton?

I'll upload my logo concepts after I get home from work.

It'll likely end up part of the Vaporwave faction in the end, but this is an interesting faction idea.

Penti-chan

I like it. Would some of the later Classic Mac-tans still be on good terms with 7.5? What about the early OSX-tans?

VolareVia

I'd imagine her successors (almost) universally revile her, as she was seen as the one who nearly destroyed Apple and a traitor.

Her predecessors are more mixed. Some see her as a traitor, and more pity her. She likely provides a cultural divide.

Aurora Borealis

I love the idea of the vaporwave faction! It's a great idea for OSes from the 1980's and 90's who can't bring themselves to completely retire, or don't think the lifestyle of the Vintage Federation would work well for them. I'm still not sure about 95 being the founder, though there was a future story idea about the rival OSes of the 90's eventually retiring and possibly putting their pasts aside, but I like this faction. When I recently thought about how the OS-tan factions would be today, I assumed that some of the earliest Macs may have retired by now. They held out for so long because the Macs are a close-knit family, and efforts have been made to bridge the gaps, but there are so many OSX versions now that I'd imagine that the earliest classic Macs would've retired by now, or would soon, because otherwise the Mac House would be massive now!

The other faction changes are from events I didn't know about before, but I'll be happy to discuss them while learning more about them!

The 3.14 Society has a modern but retro vibe to it. I was surprised to see RISC OS being part of it, but if she left the ASC, is the ASC still around in the present day or did it eventually disband?

I hadn't given any thought to System 7.5 or the Mac Clones, because I didn't know how to characterize them, and had been unsure if 7.5 was going to be more than a one-shot character. A/UX and Newton were known to be evicted from the House of Mac by the higher-ups to cut costs.

I can't believe I only found out today that the SCO Group got sued and went bankrupt years ago. Is it safe to assume that SCO Unix and any allies she had would've been banished from the LUC after the lawsuit?

VolareVia

April 06, 2019, 04:09:46 pm #8 Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 07:49:13 pm by VolareVia
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmI love the idea of the vaporwave faction! It's a great idea for OSes from the 1980's and 90's who can't bring themselves to completely retire, or don't think the lifestyle of the Vintage Federation would work well for them. I'm still not sure about 95 being the founder, though there was a future story idea about the rival OSes of the 90's eventually retiring and possibly putting their pasts aside, but I like this faction.

It was an eye-catching way to introduce the faction. Realistically, I don't think she'd lead it, but if she didn't, who'd make it vaporwave?  :P

In all seriousness, it was just one idea. I think realistically either 3.1-tan, NT-tan, OS 9-tan, or XP-tan would lead it. If we include mid-2000s OS-tans, Tiger could lead even.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmThe 3.14 Society has a modern but retro vibe to it. I was surprised to see RISC OS being part of it, but if she left the ASC, is the ASC still around in the present day or did it eventually disband?

I'd imagine that by now, the ASC's members, aside from RISC OS-tan, would have either retired to the Vintage Federation or semi-retired to this new faction idea.

RISC OS-tan is in the new faction as the Raspberry Pi gave her a new lease on life, referencing how RISC OS has a renewed interest due to the Pi.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmI hadn't given any thought to System 7.5 or the Mac Clones, because I didn't know how to characterize them, and had been unsure if 7.5 was going to be more than a one-shot character. A/UX and Newton were known to be evicted from the House of Mac by the higher-ups to cut costs.

I have given many a thought to 7.5-tan, including to how what makes her different from System 7.

I'm not really sure if this would become a faction, but it's an idea I'm throwing out there, even if only to provide development to 7.5-tan.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmI can't believe I only found out today that the SCO Group got sued and went bankrupt years ago. Is it safe to assume that SCO Unix and any allies she had would've been banished from the LUC after the lawsuit?

Definitely. If there are allies, they might have tried to form their own dynasty ala the User Space Gang, but be the inverse, actively rejecting Open Sourcery.

If not, SCO Unix might not be here today.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmThe other faction changes are from events I didn't know about before, but I'll be happy to discuss them while learning more about them!

It's a really complicated affair. Listing who's who in each faction will be the easiest part, but their reasons for switching faction or staying in the LUC would be easy enough.

I propose we call the systemd faction the "Linux Union" though, as a second go for the idea, without Linux-tan approving nor disapproving of the faction.

Aurora Borealis

Quote from: undefinedI can't believe I only found out today that the SCO Group got sued and went bankrupt years ago. Is it safe to assume that SCO Unix and any allies she had would've been banished from the LUC after the lawsuit?

Definitely. If there are allies, they might have tried to form their own dynasty ala the User Space Gang, but be the inverse, actively rejecting Open Sourcery.

If not, SCO Unix might not be here today.

I was curious about how the lawsuit that caused the SCO Group's bankruptcy happened, and which companies were involved, and dove down the rabbit hole of trying to make sense of all of the companies and which OSes they had, and tracing their complicated histories back to find whether SCO Unix-tan had any allies when she has so many enemies!

After hearing that SCO Group went bankrupt, I assumed that SCO Unix-tan lost everything and nearly met her demise, but found that versions of SCO Unix, now called OpenServer, are still widely used and being maintained. UnixWare-tan was found to be one of the allies she would've had, but their alliance would've started off very shaky. SCO used to be part of Caldera, and Caldera had an OS called OpenLinux. OpenLinux-tan's and SCO Unix-tan's attitudes towards each other would've been complicated. UnixWare and SCO Unix (now called OpenServer) were bought out by Xinuos in 2011 after SCO Group's bankruptcy.

After the bankruptcy, SCO Unix-tan and UnixWare-tan were likely banished from the Linux Unix Consortium, because they lost a lot of their wealth and power and were now powerless against the many high-ranking Linuxes and Unixes in the faction that disliked them, but they could've found success of their own afterwards. Both OSes are currently maintained, and older versions of OpenServer are still widely used in point of sales systems, particularly in food service, so I interpret their present day situation as them running a successful restaurant. It could be a pizzeria in reference to Pizza Hut's Pizza Net system that was based off of OpenServer 5!

They might be wanderers in the present day but band together running the restaurant, but could be a faction of their own, as an inverse to the User Space Gang, rejecting Open Sorcery, and espousing for Unix to be proprietary, if there are enough OSes related to, and would agree with them.

Within the Linux Unix Consortium from 2002 - 2004, there would've been an alliance between SuSE Linux-tan, Turbolinux-tan, OpenLinux-tan, and Mandrake/Mandriva-tan in reference to United Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Linux SCO Unix-tan supported this because of OpenLinux-tan being a member, and because of the "An enemy of an enemy is a friend of mine" attitude. 

This alliance was meant to compete against Red Hat Linux-tan, and to create a unified Linux platform that would avoid the splitting and incompatibilities that plagued the Unix versions.

Guess how the alliance ended.
It fell apart from a lawsuit by SCO!

The United Linux alliance fits in with the Annex Project too, but it was great additional background information I found for long-standing alliances and rivalries within the Linux Unix Consortium.

When reading up about Caldera, because the SCO Group branched off from them, I found that Caldera bought the rights to Digital Research's OSes, including DR-DOS and GEM! Digital Research sold their OSes to Novell, and Caldera bought them from Novell, which is the company that owns SuSE Linux. UnixWare also used to be owned by Novell, before it was bought by SCO!

VolareVia

April 06, 2019, 09:13:05 pm #10 Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 09:16:32 pm by VolareVia
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmAfter the bankruptcy, SCO Unix-tan and UnixWare-tan were likely banished from the Linux Unix Consortium, because they lost a lot of their wealth and power and were now powerless against the many high-ranking Linuxes and Unixes in the faction that disliked them, but they could've found success of their own afterwards. Both OSes are currently maintained, and older versions of OpenServer are still widely used in point of sales systems, particularly in food service, so I interpret their present day situation as them running a successful restaurant. It could be a pizzeria in reference to Pizza Hut's Pizza Net system that was based off of OpenServer 5!

I love this idea. I actually might write a story about some OS-tans going to eat there. :P

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmThey might be wanderers in the present day but band together running the restaurant, but could be a faction of their own, as an inverse to the User Space Gang, rejecting Open Sorcery, and espousing for Unix to be proprietary, if there are enough OSes related to, and would agree with them.

That's probably the biggest question. I mean, I'd imagine that active proprietary Unix-tans would be thinking "oh great, the freakshow decided that I had to be a part of it."

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmWithin the Linux Unix Consortium from 2002 - 2004, there would've been an alliance between SuSE Linux-tan, Turbolinux-tan, OpenLinux-tan, and Mandrake/Mandriva-tan in reference to United Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Linux SCO Unix-tan supported this because of OpenLinux-tan being a member, and because of the "An enemy of an enemy is a friend of mine" attitude. 

This alliance was meant to compete against Red Hat Linux-tan, and to create a unified Linux platform that would avoid the splitting and incompatibilities that plagued the Unix versions.

That's really neat. I'm sure this was a good goal, to unite the platforms. I wonder if it's still-
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmGuess how the alliance ended.
It fell apart from a lawsuit by SCO!

Pfft. I laughed harder than I should have.

I'm sure SCO Unix-tan's relationship with OpenLinux-tan soured a bit after that.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmThe United Linux alliance fits in with the Annex Project too, but it was great additional background information I found for long-standing alliances and rivalries within the Linux Unix Consortium.

Linux politics are certainly interesting. :o

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmWhen reading up about Caldera, because the SCO Group branched off from them, I found that Caldera bought the rights to Digital Research's OSes, including DR-DOS and GEM! Digital Research sold their OSes to Novell, and Caldera bought them from Novell, which is the company that owns SuSE Linux. UnixWare also used to be owned by Novell, before it was bought by SCO!

Wonder how the DR-DOS and GEM feel about their Unix family members.

Actually, DR-DOS reminds me. In the early to mid 90s, Apple and Novell made a deal to make a version of System 7 for DR-DOS that was called "Star Trek." Given GEM's history with Mac-tans, I wonder how GEM-tan feels about this.

Aurora Borealis

Quote from: VolareVia on April 06, 2019, 09:13:05 pmI love this idea. I actually might write a story about some OS-tans going to eat there. :P

Go for it! :D
I want to write and draw a story about it too, explaining how their restaurant came to be!

Quote from: undefinedThat's probably the biggest question. I mean, I'd imagine that active proprietary Unix-tans would be thinking "oh great, the freakshow decided that I had to be a part of it."

Most of the other proprietary Unixes wouldn't have been interested in the splinter faction that SCO Unix and UnixWare attempted. If enough of them considered it, then the LUC would've been weakened further. If the proprietary-favoring Unixes all sided with this splinter faction, and many Linuxes left the LUC for their own splinter faction after the systemd controversy, who would be left?

Quote from: undefinedThat's really neat. I'm sure this was a good goal, to unite the platforms. I wonder if it's still-
Pfft. I laughed harder than I should have.

I know, right? :D

Quote from: undefinedI'm sure SCO Unix-tan's relationship with OpenLinux-tan soured a bit after that.

Linux politics are certainly interesting. :o

Definitely! SCO Unix-tan's and OpenLinux-tan's relationship would've soured after the United Linux Alliance fell apart, because SuSE Linux-tan is one of SCO Unix's-tan enemies, and OpenLinux-tan attempted to cooperate with her.

Quote from: undefinedWonder how the DR-DOS and GEM feel about their Unix family members.

Actually, DR-DOS reminds me. In the early to mid 90s, Apple and Novell made a deal to make a version of System 7 for DR-DOS that was called "Star Trek." Given GEM's history with Mac-tans, I wonder how GEM-tan feels about this.

The Star Trek Project was fascinating to read about. There were so many twists and so many additions to OS-tan lore than can be drawn from it!

Before I finished this reply, I looked up more about the Star Trek Project, and found a lot of fascinating things about it, and about the continued development of GEM and DR-DOS under Novell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS#Contribution_by_Novell

Novell continued developing DR-DOS as Novell DOS to compete against MS-DOS, and attempted to continue developing GEM to compete against Windows because Novell wanted to break Microsoft's near-monopolies. When Caldera bought DR-DOS from Novell, Caldera wanted to bundle DR-DOS with with OpenLinux.

During DR-DOS-tan's time with Caldera, she and OpenLinux-tan would've spent a lot of time working together, and she would've seen Windows 95-tan as a rival. This rivalry was intense as Caldera sued Microsoft over not allowing Windows 95 to run any DOS version other than MS-DOS.

http://lowendmac.com/2014/star-trek-apples-first-mac-os-on-intel-project/
The Star Trek Project was sparked by Novell's struggles to compete against Microsoft, and their desire to break up Microsoft's marketshare, as with their efforts to continue developing DR-DOS as a competitor to MS-DOS. Windows 3.1's popularity was a threat to both Apple and Novell.

GEM-tan would have complicated attitudes towards this, but she still would be angry over the lawsuit from Apple that caused GEM 2 and 3 to be downgrades from 1.

While Novell owned GEM, they attempted to develop GEM to keep competing against Windows, but that was canceled because Novell feared a lawsuit from Apple over it. On second thought, GEM-tan would've been scared and angry than anything else, fearing that she was going to be punished for trying to improve herself.

This article, also from Low End Mac (http://lowendmac.com/2006/growing-apple-with-the-macintosh-the-sculley-years/) briefly mentions that GEM was more popular than Windows 1.0, but Windows 2.0 was more successful and a viable competitor. Apple sued Microsoft in March 1988 over Windows 2.0's interface, though Apple sued Digital Research over GEM 1's interface earlier.

Completely branching off, but another thing I found fascinating in it is how Apple and Apollo Computers almost had a deal. Apollo was struggling compete against Sun, and wanted a deal to for their Domain/OS to be sold on Apple-branded workstations. The Mac software that was ported to Domain/OS ran very well, but the agreement was suddenly canceled by Apple. Apollo got bought out by HP after the deal fell through. How does all of this translate into OS-tan lore?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_project

Within Apple, a product similar to the Star Trek Project was released. The Macintosh Application Environment allowed Solaris and HP-UX workstations to run classic Mac OS applications.
The version of DR-DOS developed by Novell during the Star Trek Project had a lot of enhancements incorporated from the project.

Executor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executor_(software) ) was designed during this project for Intel hardware to emulates the Mac hardware and either System 6.0.7 or 7.0. A Linux version has also been designed and has been tested on several distributions. There are also versions for Windows, MS-DOS, and NeXTSTEP. System 7 was central to the Star Trek Project, but the System 6 involvement with the Executor emulator was also key in porting more classic Mac software to the Intel platform, because of the programs that work with System 6, but not System 7.

VolareVia

April 09, 2019, 09:37:55 am #12 Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 10:56:32 am by VolareVia
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmMost of the other proprietary Unixes wouldn't have been interested in the splinter faction that SCO Unix and UnixWare attempted. If enough of them considered it, then the LUC would've been weakened further. If the proprietary-favoring Unixes all sided with this splinter faction, and many Linuxes left the LUC for their own splinter faction after the systemd controversy, who would be left?

Exactly. Thankfully (for the LUC) no one likes them anyways, so when they get kicked out, they might have tried this for like five seconds until they realized they'd be better off just serving pizza, which they do and are doing successfully. Revenge is less appealing when you're able to make a living and then some off of your own business.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmThe Star Trek Project was fascinating to read about. There were so many twists and so many additions to OS-tan lore than can be drawn from it!

Indeed! When I first heard about this, I wondered what the implications would be for the lore! :D

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmDuring DR-DOS-tan's time with Caldera, she and OpenLinux-tan would've spent a lot of time working together, and she would've seen Windows 95-tan as a rival. This rivalry was intense as Caldera sued Microsoft over not allowing Windows 95 to run any DOS version other than MS-DOS.

Wasn't this Windows 3.1? Regardless, I'm sure they're rivals to both. :)

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmGEM-tan would have complicated attitudes towards this, but she still would be angry over the lawsuit from Apple that caused GEM 2 and 3 to be downgrades from 1.

Would this mean that GEM-tan would have left Novell at the time?

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmWhile Novell owned GEM, they attempted to develop GEM to keep competing against Windows, but that was canceled because Novell feared a lawsuit from Apple over it. On second thought, GEM-tan would've been scared and angry than anything else, fearing that she was going to be punished for trying to improve herself.

Or maybe that she just gave up and left?

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmThis article, also from Low End Mac (http://lowendmac.com/2006/growing-apple-with-the-macintosh-the-sculley-years/) briefly mentions that GEM was more popular than Windows 1.0, but Windows 2.0 was more successful and a viable competitor. Apple sued Microsoft in March 1988 over Windows 2.0's interface, though Apple sued Digital Research over GEM 1's interface earlier.

I think the lawsuits against Windows and GEM lead to the Mac-tans, and thus the then-current Apple, to be seen as highly aggressive, which might backfire when they try to establish other relationships.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmCompletely branching off, but another thing I found fascinating in it is how Apple and Apollo Computers almost had a deal. Apollo was struggling compete against Sun, and wanted a deal to for their Domain/OS to be sold on Apple-branded workstations. The Mac software that was ported to Domain/OS ran very well, but the agreement was suddenly canceled by Apple. Apollo got bought out by HP after the deal fell through. How does all of this translate into OS-tan lore?

Speaking of failure to establish other relationships, this could be the start of peaceful talks gone awry due more to incompetence than aggression, based on what little I can scrape together on when Apollo got bought out, something that'd be a staple in the System 7.x era.

I'd imagine that Domain/OS-tan feels betrayed by the Mac-tans, and likely loathes them in the present day for what they did to her. Of course, as I said, it was due to Apple being more stupid than anything.

Honestly, a lot of mid-90s Apple's failures boil down to getting distracted by shiny thing X and having a hard time getting some alliance with Y down for more than a year, and often both are connected.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmWithin Apple, a product similar to the Star Trek Project was released. The Macintosh Application Environment allowed Solaris and HP-UX workstations to run classic Mac OS applications.
The version of DR-DOS developed by Novell during the Star Trek Project had a lot of enhancements incorporated from the project.

Interesting. What are the nature of these enhancements? Would these enhancements have made DR-DOS-tan more like a Unix-tan like the OSes mentioned above?

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmExecutor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executor_(software) ) was designed during this project for Intel hardware to emulates the Mac hardware and either System 6.0.7 or 7.0. A Linux version has also been designed and has been tested on several distributions. There are also versions for Windows, MS-DOS, and NeXTSTEP. System 7 was central to the Star Trek Project, but the System 6 involvement with the Executor emulator was also key in porting more classic Mac software to the Intel platform, because of the programs that work with System 6, but not System 7.


Maybe System 6-tan didn't want to work with her then bitter internal rival, System 7-tan, so Apple and Novell felt a need to use an emulator to help get over the hurdle of System 6?

Would there be a Star Trek-tan? Her powers would be more similar to the 9x-tans, but goes between Mac and DR-DOS as opposed to the 9x-tans, who can go back and forth between Windows and MS-DOS? This is a fairly unique concept. :o



Also, this talk of Apple lawsuits reminded me of how the FSF boycotted Apple (for the record, they meant that this mean no programs they make would run on Apple's OSes, most famous of which is GNU Emacs, which is what most people probably think of when someone even says "Emacs"; the FSF wasn't ever going to endorse the non-libre Macs) over these lawsuits. It didn't end until 1995, when the lawsuits ended, and with it, the boycott.

The FSF analogue faction I mentioned in the OP likely had attacks (probably akin to the ASC, as this was before Linux got big) on Apple at that point. For the last of these years, Debian-tan was the FSF faction's leader, so would Debian-tan still have a distaste for Mac-tans that has lingered after all of these years?

I think Debian would have engaged in peace talks with the Mac-tans, as she was the leader at the end of the conflict, so she likely would have been more peaceful than her predecessors.

What about System 6, 7, and 7.5? They were the primary OSes during the boycott. While System 6 and System 7 don't really have to worry about running into an FSF-tan in the modern era. 7.5-tan, on the other hand, likely does have to worry about this, as do most wanderers, even the open source ones, but 7.5 especially, as she was a leader of one of their greatest enemies at the end of the conflict.

Obviously, modern FSF-tans would learn about this, as they generally think that any OS-tan that is even a bit proprietary is evil. I'd imagine may Wanderers fear the FSF the most out of the factions, as the FSF is hostile to outsiders and likely would try and pick on the Wanderers they particularly dislike.

Aurora Borealis

Quote from: VolareVia on April 09, 2019, 09:37:55 amExactly. Thankfully (for the LUC) no one likes them anyways, so when they get kicked out, they might have tried this for like five seconds until they realized they'd be better off just serving pizza

I imagined that their pizza business would've started just like that! :D


Quote from: undefinedwhich they do and are doing successfully. Revenge is less appealing when you're able to make a living and then some off of your own business.

Living successfully is said to be one of the best forms of revenge. With their own successful business, they're showing that they don't need the LUC's support, and can do well without them! This was a very interesting twist to UnixWare-tan's and SCO Unix-tan's backstories that make them more sympathetic. They brought their banishment from the LUC on themselves after the lawsuit that caused the SCO Group's bankruptcy, but found some new success in their own business which surely instilled some humility in them!


Quote from: undefinedIndeed! When I first heard about this, I wondered what the implications would be for the lore! :D

I've heard of it before, but didn't think about how it would affect OS-tan lore until I started reading more into it. A lot of complicated alliances between different companies resulted from it. There's so much to work with! There should be articles on the OSC wiki about events like this, and which factions and OS-tans were involved with them.


Quote from: undefinedWasn't this Windows 3.1? Regardless, I'm sure they're rivals to both. :)
Would this mean that GEM-tan would have left Novell at the time?

DR-DOS-tan would've been rivals to both of them, but her time with Novell started in the early 1990's. She and GEM-tan were both transferred to Caldera in November 1996.

Quote from: undefinedOr maybe that she just gave up and left?

When GEM-tan was with Novell, she was going to be trained and upgraded, but that was canceled and she spent the rest of her time with mostly on the sidelines. Her time at Caldera was only a little better, being on the sidelines again. Almost as if she was tossed aside until 1999 when she was open-sourced. This allowed GEM's development to continue, and its open source branches FreeGEM and OpenGEM have the restored functionality of GEM 1. She left as a wanderer for some time, until she eventually joined the Vintage Federation.

Quote from: undefinedI think the lawsuits against Windows and GEM lead to the Mac-tans, and thus the then-current Apple, to be seen as highly aggressive, which might backfire when they try to establish other relationships.

That's spot on. The Mac-tans and Apple would've been seen as too aggressive, which hurt their changes at alliances with others for years. Their attempts would've had a bad start, though their alliances failing were from mismanaged leadership and not malice.

QuoteSpeaking of failure to establish other relationships, this could be the start of peaceful talks gone awry due more to incompetence than aggression, based on what little I can scrape together on when Apollo got bought out, something that'd be a staple in the System 7.x era.

I'd imagine that Domain/OS-tan feels betrayed by the Mac-tans, and likely loathes them in the present day for what they did to her. Of course, as I said, it was due to Apple being more stupid than anything.

Honestly, a lot of mid-90s Apple's failures boil down to getting distracted by shiny thing X and having a hard time getting some alliance with Y down for more than a year, and often both are connected.

It's unfortunate that the Mac-tans were seen as too aggressive, because they didn't intend to be hostile, and were sincerely trying to build alliances. They may have thought they were just acting in self-defense. System 1-tan remained aggressive well after she became obsolete because she was protective of her faction, and worried about threats that could make it collapse, as sales for the original Mac had a good start upon its release before tanking through the later part of 1984 and through 1985. The future of the Mac was uncertain as early as 1985. During that time, Apple II-tan's income kept the family afloat.

QuoteInteresting. What are the nature of these enhancements? Would these enhancements have made DR-DOS-tan more like a Unix-tan like the OSes mentioned above?

The enhancements included advanced memory management, a form of pre-emptive multitasking, had the ability to load into a protected mode, and the ability to create and run applications in DOS virtual machines.


QuoteMaybe System 6-tan didn't want to work with her then bitter internal rival, System 7-tan, so Apple and Novell felt a need to use an emulator to help get over the hurdle of System 6?

I'm not sure how to interpret how System 6-tan and System 7-tan would have felt working with each other on this project. That is one possibility, but there is another that isn't so bitter. When System 6.0.8 was released, it had some forward compatibility with System 7.0. It's possible that when they first met, that System 6-tan was willing to get along with System 7-tan and showed some gestures of goodwill towards her, but that would've fallen apart due to a lot of applications that worked with System 6 or earlier not working with System 7. Yet, these compatibility issues meant that System 6-tan was needed for a role in porting over those Mac programs. It was a small role in this project, but it was something, and wouldn't have been possible if System 7 didn't have those compatibility issues with certain programs.

Opportunities like that are rare for an OS-tan that's no longer current in a lineage like the Macs, Windows, and other OS families where the youngest member is always the successor to the previous one.

QuoteWould there be a Star Trek-tan? Her powers would be more similar to the 9x-tans, but goes between Mac and DR-DOS as opposed to the 9x-tans, who can go back and forth between Windows and MS-DOS? This is a fairly unique concept. :o

I haven't thought about a character for that, but I see it as an event that should be described in the OSC wiki.

QuoteAlso, this talk of Apple lawsuits reminded me of how the FSF boycotted Apple (for the record, they meant that this mean no programs they make would run on Apple's OSes, most famous of which is GNU Emacs, which is what most people probably think of when someone even says "Emacs"; the FSF wasn't ever going to endorse the non-libre Macs) over these lawsuits. It didn't end until 1995, when the lawsuits ended, and with it, the boycott.

The FSF analogue faction I mentioned in the OP likely had attacks (probably akin to the ASC, as this was before Linux got big) on Apple at that point. For the last of these years, Debian-tan was the FSF faction's leader, so would Debian-tan still have a distaste for Mac-tans that has lingered after all of these years?

I think Debian would have engaged in peace talks with the Mac-tans, as she was the leader at the end of the conflict, so she likely would have been more peaceful than her predecessors.

I agree that Debian-tan would've engaged in peace talks with the Mac-tans, because she didn't want extremism on any side, and wanted to de-escalate conflicts.


QuoteWhat about System 6, 7, and 7.5? They were the primary OSes during the boycott. While System 6 and System 7 don't really have to worry about running into an FSF-tan in the modern era. 7.5-tan, on the other hand, likely does have to worry about this, as do most wanderers, even the open source ones, but 7.5 especially, as she was a leader of one of their greatest enemies at the end of the conflict.

Obviously, modern FSF-tans would learn about this, as they generally think that any OS-tan that is even a bit proprietary is evil. I'd imagine may Wanderers fear the FSF the most out of the factions, as the FSF is hostile to outsiders and likely would try and pick on the Wanderers they particularly dislike.

I think that these Mac-tans would've agreed to the peace talks, because at the very least, it was because the Windows Family were their main rivals, and Apple's efforts were the most geared towards competing against Microsoft. Preparing for the OS Wars between the Mac-tans and the Windows-tans was already costly, though the Mac-tans remained underprepared. The last thing they needed was more powerful enemies! It could also be an attempt to atone for past hostilities and failed deals.

With the FSF's extremism, they might not be convinced of the peace talks. I'd see that System 7.5-tan would still definitely be a target for the FSF just because being a a proprietary OS and a wanderer makes her an easy target.

VolareVia

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmLiving successfully is said to be one of the best forms of revenge. With their own successful business, they're showing that they don't need the LUC's support, and can do well without them! This was a very interesting twist to UnixWare-tan's and SCO Unix-tan's backstories that make them more sympathetic. They brought their banishment from the LUC on themselves after the lawsuit that caused the SCO Group's bankruptcy, but found some new success in their own business which surely instilled some humility in them!

Definitely. Now I kinda wonder if some FSF-types like to wreck the place.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmWhen GEM-tan was with Novell, she was going to be trained and upgraded, but that was canceled and she spent the rest of her time with mostly on the sidelines. Her time at Caldera was only a little better, being on the sidelines again. Almost as if she was tossed aside until 1999 when she was open-sourced. This allowed GEM's development to continue, and its open source branches FreeGEM and OpenGEM have the restored functionality of GEM 1. She left as a wanderer for some time, until she eventually joined the Vintage Federation.

Probably should have a Novell faction that existed, but likely merged into the LUC at some point. I'd honestly imagine that the Unix Wars had many factions that merged into one, and that the Linux-tans, while belonging to different subfactions, are united in a union.

Honestly, what factions would FreeGEM and OpenGEM be in? I'd personally assume the Vintage Federation, if only because FreeDOS-tan is in the DOSSE.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmThat's spot on. The Mac-tans and Apple would've been seen as too aggressive, which hurt their changes at alliances with others for years. Their attempts would've had a bad start, though their alliances failing were from mismanaged leadership and not malice.

So if there's one thing Classic Mac-tans generally weren't good at, it was diplomacy. I guess this likely means that Mac OS9-tan likely can't lead that proposed unification of semi-retired OS-tans or if she is, she's probably the best diplomat of the bunch. I'd say the latter is most likely regardless, given the great compatibility from 7.5 onwards.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmIt's unfortunate that the Mac-tans were seen as too aggressive, because they didn't intend to be hostile, and were sincerely trying to build alliances. They may have thought they were just acting in self-defense. System 1-tan remained aggressive well after she became obsolete because she was protective of her faction, and worried about threats that could make it collapse, as sales for the original Mac had a good start upon its release before tanking through the later part of 1984 and through 1985. The future of the Mac was uncertain as early as 1985. During that time, Apple II-tan's income kept the family afloat.

That's a good way to look at it. :)

There's always a story to both sides. Aggression due to fear is certainly sympathetic.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmI'm not sure how to interpret how System 6-tan and System 7-tan would have felt working with each other on this project. That is one possibility, but there is another that isn't so bitter. When System 6.0.8 was released, it had some forward compatibility with System 7.0. It's possible that when they first met, that System 6-tan was willing to get along with System 7-tan and showed some gestures of goodwill towards her, but that would've fallen apart due to a lot of applications that worked with System 6 or earlier not working with System 7. Yet, these compatibility issues meant that System 6-tan was needed for a role in porting over those Mac programs. It was a small role in this project, but it was something, and wouldn't have been possible if System 7 didn't have those compatibility issues with certain programs.

Ah! Thank you for giving more details on the relationship. It also makes more sense, given that we've established that incompatibility keeps older versions useful, so the Mac-tans don't see it as a bad thing.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmI think that these Mac-tans would've agreed to the peace talks, because at the very least, it was because the Windows Family were their main rivals, and Apple's efforts were the most geared towards competing against Microsoft. Preparing for the OS Wars between the Mac-tans and the Windows-tans was already costly, though the Mac-tans remained underprepared. The last thing they needed was more powerful enemies! It could also be an attempt to atone for past hostilities and failed deals.

I definitely agree that the Mac-tans would have agreed to the peace talks. I just wondered how they felt about the FSF in the present day. :)

But yeah, as for System 6 and System 7, they likely might not care about them in the present day, as as far as they're concerned, the war is over, as the increasing power of the Mac-tans scares them away.

Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmWith the FSF's extremism, they might not be convinced of the peace talks. I'd see that System 7.5-tan would still definitely be a target for the FSF just because being a a proprietary OS and a wanderer makes her an easy target.

Indeed. Her status as one of the more important people in the peace talks likely is seen by the modern FSF as "hmm. old disgraced leader. definitely someone worth attacking"

I'd imagine that other factions have been on their hitlist. The ASC likely house an "absolute traitor to freedom" in QNX, and what stops them from going after the Vintage Federation is FreeDOS in the DOSSE.