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Started by Simonorged, January 23, 2013, 05:38:01 pm

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SleepyD

(Reading about the persecution of the Jesuits, it seems they had the same problem that the Vatican had back then, in that they were also too concerned with worldy matters, so that's probably where Nejin's spy stuff could fit in)


i get the feeling either these people were lazy, wanted to leave it up for the winter or just liked having it around. at least it's not like the people that have the icicle lights still up in july. :\

i wasn't aware epiphany was a holiday. :0

as for jesuits, while i respect the desire to question everything and understand other cultures, i've never been fond of missionary cultures. the only good things to come of it was updated technology/medical treatments being given to cultures in the dark about such things. conversion, that i've never been fond of. i'm not fond of persecution, either, though.

The Epiphany is basically when we start singing the "We Three Kings" carol. (so that event is actually distinct from Christmas itself)

Today, the missionary efforts are usually tied to some sort of aid or shelter, often in inner-cities and overseas. And if they don't accept the religion, I would hope they accept some of the tenets of our philosophy. We're not exclusive of non-Catholics. I graduated from a Jesuit high school, but I have friends from there who were and are atheist and also from other Christian denominations.

As for me, I am called to evangelize, but I won't directly make that suggestion. I think living my own life is enough. Just earning other people's respect is enough for me. Many, many people don't hold the Church in high regard. We're not all bad. Just putting that message out there (indirectly as it may be) is enough for me.

Chocofreak13

hm, alright. the only time i'd really have any problems with someone of another faith is 1. if their practices outwardly hurt people (such as human sacrifice or the beating of children), 2. if they regard other religions with scorn (such as some of the more closed-minded religions seeing anything that's not the norm as "evil"), or 3. if they actively try to convert others either in an attempt to "save" them or for other reasons (after all, that isn't acceptance, no matter how much they might say it is). :\

Simonorged

#32
January 24, 2013, 07:58:12 pm Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 07:59:56 pm by Simonorged
How about another debate.
Simon was here :P<br />

SleepyD

Out of those, I can't see any self-respecting Jesuit do any of those.
Although, it is a very BIG religious society, with many laypersons. It's possible that they are doing things that fall into 2 and 3, especially if they are unaware that they are doing so. It could even be a fault of personality/upbringing. We are merely human after all.
(And if they are doing anything that falls into 1, that should not be under the banner of Catholics or the Jesuits--if so, that is despicable)


How about another debate.

Gun control? lol

Simonorged

Sure

I'd kinda against gun control, I mean If you restrict it, only the bad guys will have them.
I remember hearing something that said that almost everyone who lives in Canada has a gun
and crime is actually less there than in America. I honestly think that you should have to pass 3 mental evaluations before you can get one. It's a little too difficult to get a gun, I believe here you need 3 permits to legally use one.
Simon was here :P<br />

Penti-chan

I think better gun control would be a good thing; such as requiring mental evaluations in addition to the usual background checks, to reduce the chances of it falling into the hands of a crazy person. The people in my hometown would be strongly against it, I can guarantee you, but I feel it'd be the right thing to do

Chocofreak13

i have a good system in mind for guns.

you should be able to buy any sort of firearm provided you have the money, from little bitty derringers all the way up to bazookas and rocket launchers. the only difference between getting a derringer and a bazooka is the required amount of background checks. the bigger/more powerful the gun, the more background checks and the bigger the waiting period. for the heavy artillery i mentioned, the waiting perioid might be between 5-10 years and they might run multiple, thorough criminal background checks and mental evaluations. a bazooka can be a great conversation piece to hang over your mantle. but not before you pass enough psych evals to drive the insane sane.

as with the current system, we need more policing. don't get me wrong, i like guns and would like to learn how to shoot, and it's ludicrious to try to outlaw them (they're too widespread; it'd be like outlawing shoes), but we need to have more stringent policies on such things, such as more background checks, psych evals, and less ease of access at gun shows and trade shows. a national standard for buying/selling/owning guns would be nice too, since it varies from state to state.

DustiiWolf

Casually enters late into the conversation

We cant take the splinter out of the friend eye without taking the 2 by 4 out of our own.
And mine is pretty lodged in there.

I had a pastor once who said the exact same thing. I chuckled, as well as agreed.


i detest jehova's witnesses. it's not only their slave-like devotion to their faith or their incessant need to "save" people (even when they tell them to go away, they don't want to be "saved"), but also because they find nothing wrong with beating their children senseless. there are special rooms in the meeting halls devoted to smacking around their children, providing such items as paddles and wooden spoons. if the child makes the slightest peep during the sermon, that's grounds for a beating.
how do i know this? someone i know read a book on their practices. and i used to know someone who was raised jehova's witness. she was beaten by her uber-religious parents and even molested by church officials.

I have an uncle and aunt who are Jehovas Witnesses. They don't do any of that (as far as I know), but their beliefs, personally, are out there. From my uncle trying to convert our family, Ive learned apparently they believe only a select few make it to heaven. As in, a few of the best of the best Jehovas Witnesses go to heaven. Then the rest stay on earth. everyone else is in torture and is ruled by the witnesses that didn't make the "heavenly cut". It seems odd. (I even had an idea of a comic strip like what youd see in the sunday paper centered around this, but that's for another day.)

Also, I guess one could say im agnostic...
Its hard to explain. I mean, my ideas are like a cross between atheism and Christianity, which seems impossible. Its hard to explain, and involves theory and such...
The easiest way I explain things to people:
Quote from: Amy Fara Fowler
I don't deny the existence of a deity, but im baffled by the notion of one who takes attendance.

(Its hard to put what I theorize into words. I use "agnostic" since I accept the possibility I am wrong, and do not definitively believe in one thing. I have theories. Not beliefs.)

Gun Control:
No one should have concealed carry. Period. People who wish to have a gun should require special permits and will only be allowed for use in recreation, occupation, and home protection (meaning it doesn't leave the home). The whole idea of having a concealed weapon for protection backfires a lot of the time. Guns of a certain length or shorter should be banned, and automatic and heavy duty weapons should be banned. Those exempt from such a ban should be Military, Police, etc... Our use of guns has gone far beyond that of constitutional right in recent years. It needs to be stopped.

Id bring up Windows 8, since itd fit the topic (I know >_<) but thatd end up getting this whole topic locked. Trust me. Again, I know, >_<
Official -tans are my bat signal.

alfonso_rd_30


OK, starting with the hollidays:


Dec.31 /Jan 1st. it's new years' eve, so a nice family dinner with us all behaving on our best behavior (this year was grilled meat...). My older sister goes with her Mother in Law.


Jan 6th. Three kings Day/ Dia de Reyes. here we cut the traditional King's bagel, and whomever finds small "baby Jesus" figurines has to get the tamales in Feb. 2nd. This year, I got the yisus


Feb. 2 La Candelaria Day: Tamalefest... mom and other ladies of the Momma side of the family make tamales and are eaten.

Feb.3 Moping Day-: J/k, it's my B-day, some years I mope, some not

Feb 5th. Constitution Day: I observe it, but it's a celebration most personal.

Feb. 13. Ash Wednesday: go to the "Sanctuary", to get said ash.

Feb. 14. Valentine's day... I don't celebrate this much...

Feb. 24. Flag Day: one of the Mexican trinity, it's custom to have flags on the homes, conmemorating the diverse flags the country used.

Mar. 18. Nationalization of Petroleum Industry: no observed, but remembered, maybe with a week long wallpaper in the computer.

Mar 21. Benito Juárez B-day: we used to go camping...

(This year)

Mar. 24. Domingo de Ramos (Palm Sunday): Mom sometimes go to church

Mar. 28. to Mar. 31: Jueves Santo (Maundy Thursday), Viernes Santo (Good Friday), Sábado Santo y de Gloria (Holy Saturday) and Domingo de Gloria/Pascua de Resurrección (Easter Sunday): we observe more strictly the fast, eating lots'o easter food until noon...

Apr 30. Children's day: gifts to my nephews n' nieces.

May 1st. Labor day: watch the parade on the stupid box, mom and dad used to act in the city's parade

May 5th. The Battle of Puebla (yup, the same Holiday Ya gringos took from us ;) ) it is remembered, but I guess not in the scale the Mexicans living in the US do..

May 10th. Moms' day Should I say more...?

Jun. 16. Dads day: used it as excuse for not to go to college, alongside Dad's B-day.

Sept. 1st: Día del Informe Presidencial (President's State of the Union Address): watch the Address...

Sept. 13: Young Heroes' Day: just watch the ceremmonies.

Sept. 15: Independence Cry: GET YOUR FUCKING ASS OFF TO THE PLAZA DE ARMAS TO SEE THE GRITO YA MORON!

Sept. 16: Independence Day: watch the parade and some indy moovies

Nov. 2nd. Day of the Dead-All Souls Day: Go to a nearby town to visit My grandpa and other Relatives alreadyu on the other side o' da pillow

Nov. 20. Revolution Day: again, watch the parade, idiot box or live matters not...

Dec. 12. Our Lady of Guadalupe: Get to the Sanctuary to sing Momma's the Happy B-day...

Dec. 24. Christmas Eve: A traditional Family Dinner.

Dec. 25: Christmas: GET UP YA BUM...! PRESENTS TIME!!!!

From Dec.16 to Jan. 16 two days are used to have a Rosary reading commemorating the way Mary laid to sleep the Baby yisus (Acostada) and to Have him wake up for the Year (Levantada), it comes with a big feast of Meehican foods, including tamale.

And 'bout Gun Control... yes, you gringos should control whom gets the high power guns, not trying to twart your right to defend yourselves, but if you are mentally unstable or stupid enough to let guns in child's reach, then you shouldn't deserve to have it on the first time... also, avoid selling to idiots visiting, 'cause that how many many meehicans die every year, 'cause the drug criminals go and  buy cheap, easy to obtain guns in the US, and then smuggle them to Mexico to kill people...


Bella

Re: Gun control: I must say my own personal thoughts line up quite closely with Kari's and I like her idea of having more rigorous background checks for more powerful weapons. I'm not sure about bazookas, but I think it's ridiculous to ban certain kinds of guns while keeping others legal. Let's face it, every gun has the potential to be deadly in the hands of a person who WANTS to make it deadly - from automatic firearms to hunting weapons - and if you take away the automatic weapons, criminals are just going to end up with other kinds (which, granted, can't take as many lives as quickly, but can take lives nonetheless).

To further elaborate my own thoughts...

I'm going to wager a guess that, despite being very liberal in practically every political and social way, I'm probably among the most "conservative" people here when it comes to gun control. In theory, I support background checks on ALL gun purchases (though I'm not sure how this could be applied practically in private gun sales, gun shows and the like...) and wouldn't object to some sort of gun / gun-owner registry, but again, I really don't know if it could be implemented. For the most part, I'm against mental evaluations on gun purchasers - partially because I dislike how it adds further stigma to the mentally-ill (when mentally-ill people are far more likely to be the victims of crime than the perpetrators)  but also because I highly doubt it would lower the rate of gun crime, particularly the horrific spree-murder sort that sparkled the recent gun control debate to begin with. For instance, Adam Lanza attempted to buy a rifle of his own - and he was declined - so he stole the weapons from his mother. As much as I hate to say it, I doubt all the safeguards in the world will keep weapons out of the hands of those wishing to commit acts of violence.

As well, i think gun control is something of an "easy" solution (I use this word loosely since it's still a complicated issue). Right now people are upset and want some - ANY - solution to the violence. But instead of trying to tackle the amazingly complex root problems (of which mental illness might play a part, but is certainly not the be-all and end-all) they just want to "get rid of" the instruments through which this violence is perpetrated. Because blaming guns and "gun culture" is one hell of a lot easier than closely examining the psychological and social issues that lead people to violence in the first place.

On a closing note, I'd like to mention that I've worked with air-guns in the past and have yet to take shooting lessons with "real" firearms, but would love to for the purposes of sport and self-defense. It's a goal of mine to get a concealed carry permit / license at some point in the future, especially if I ever live someplace remote or where it's not quite as safe to live an independent life as a woman as it is in my native New England.

Penti-chan

@Bella: You do raise a good point. I don't think I'd ever have a need to carry a gun, but I can understand that some would feel safer with one

After all, happiness is a warm gun </the_beatles>

alfonso_rd_30


@Bella: You do raise a good point. I don't think I'd ever have a need to carry a gun, but I can understand that some would feel safer with one

After all, happiness is a warm gun </the_beatles>

tell that to the millions unarmed mexicans killed in the last two years...

Penti-chan

Well, yeah, or the people killed in one of the several school shootings here. I referenced that song to relate to some people feeling safer with a weapon on them, not to make the murderers seem right :\

Bella

Except the gun violence problem in Mexico is less of a "gun problem" and more of a "narcotics continuing to be illegal (and thus fueling the violent drug cartels) problem". If they became legalized, the illegal trade would collapse and violence would cease.

I think I just brought up another hot button topic. >_> While I personally loathe the thought of recreational drug use and have never ingested anything heavier than prescription NSAIDs, I'm also libertarianistic when it comes to drugs; I think they should be legalized and regulated / taxed by the government, just like the drugs that are legal at the moment (alcohol, tobacco, various mind-altering-and/or-potentially-addictive prescription medications, etc). :/

alfonso_rd_30


Except the gun violence problem in Mexico is less of a "gun problem" and more of a "narcotics continuing to be illegal (and thus fueling the violent drug cartels) problem". If they became legalized, the illegal trade would collapse and violence would cease.


It's similar to the ants... Last Goverment Shove a stick in the anthill, then the ants went to the US, bought weapons (Some distrib uted by the US Govt. itself) and starting Killing people to retain the little control they believed they had... in related news


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