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Lounge => General Chat => Topic started by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 11:38:01 am

Title: Hot Button Topics (religion, politics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 11:38:01 am
This is where all tension is free game, think of it as a vocal collisium.
Also if you have something to rant about, rant it here.
This is the place for arguments and debate.

:) I'm a christian. Specifically Evangelist.  :)

I know that the usual stereo type for Christians is that we are critical and judgmental, but we are not suppose to be. The fact is that we are human, and that makes it easy to judge. But if you have ever read the bible it says, love your enemy's as yourself and if you judge you will be judged. These are actually two separate verses but you get the point.

It's not our place to judge, are only job in life is to help one another, NOT condemn.
And we Christians often forget that.

We cant take the splinter out of the friend eye without taking the 2 by 4 out of our own.
And mine is pretty lodged in there.

I apologize if I judge any of you, it's not my place to and I've no room to.

And another thing, why is it that for most major organizations (whether religious or not) we have the idiot speaking for the masses? The most out there, the most condemning and the one who most often sticks his/her foot in mouth.

edit by Pitkin: fixed a typo in the topic title.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 23, 2013, 11:43:33 am
Sports isn't a hot topic
I demand a refund!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 11:47:03 am
Conversations get pretty heated about sports where I'm from. People have gotten killed over it.




not kidding
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 12:00:28 pm
Seriously why is it that we always have the least competent speaking for the masses.
For the Christians you have the Westbourow Baptist church.
For the Muslims you have the terrorists.
For the atheists the people who try to shut every religion down.

While most people just want to help the poor or the sick or want to fight for equality aren't heard because of the morons who demand the attention.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 23, 2013, 12:09:57 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on January 23, 2013, 11:43:33 am
Sports isn't a hot topic
I demand a refund!


Try telling that to the Guadalajara and America fans over here.... heck... try to say that to every fan of every single team in the MX league that does't support America...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 23, 2013, 12:11:44 pm
@Simon: Indeed. Granted, it's always the vocal minority that makes the majority look bad in anything :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 23, 2013, 12:14:21 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 12:00:28 pm
Seriously why is it that we always have the least competent speaking for the masses.
For the Christians you have the Westbourow Baptist church.
For the Muslims you have the terrorists.
For the atheists the people who try to shut every religion down.

While most people just want to help the poor or the sick or want to fight for equality aren't heard because of the morons who demand the attention.



because they are attention whores trying to force everyone to think like them? and don't realize their best way to prove the "superioroty" of their beliefs is just to do what they have to do...?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 23, 2013, 12:46:47 pm
there will be groups like that in every religion. and if there isn't enough population for that to occur, then other religions will make up stories about the obscure ones.

for example: not all pagans/wiccans dance naked in circles around fires late at night. we also don't sacrifice humans, and only a small percentage even sacrifice animals. i don't know anyone that does either of these things. (well, at least i don't THINK i know anyone who dances naked. as for sacrifice, that's just messed up, man.) we don't use blood in rituals (not as far as i know, anyway) and we don't praise the devil. (not even [actual] Satanists do that.) even covens aren't a complete truth; while most pagans/wiccans operate within covens, not all can find access to one or want to join one. (i'm the latter.) some prefer to worship alone. i consider religion a personal experience, not something to really be shared, so i choose solitude. maybe if i was in a coven i'd be more religious, but tbh i get the feeling there might also be some peer pressure involved, and i don't like that.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 01:02:45 pm
The Jews up to a certain point sacrificed animals. So really I see no problem with that, of course when the Jews did it they used an animal that they used as a food source.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 23, 2013, 01:22:55 pm
And among agnostics you have the militantly undecided. Not really. Indifference and uncertainty is a bad breeding ground for extremism, which is precisely why I like this school of thought so much.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 01:35:08 pm
I hate to sound dumb here but, Ow my head, too many big words. >_<
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 23, 2013, 02:05:03 pm
agnostics are those who believe that there might be something out there, there might not be. what she's saying is that sort of laid-back attitude isn't exactly one that harbours extremist values, meaning that agnostics as a whole don't go around doing anything crazy. i used to be agnostic, actually. (i used to be Shinto too, but that's not the point.)

as for animal sacrifice, it is also still practiced by Santeria. it's my understanding that they then use the slaughtered animals as a food source (community dinner, etc). the point i was making, though, is that your stereotypical christian will blacklist paganism/wicca under many false pretenses, such as the assumption that we sacrifice children/animals. we don't. (and for the record, Satanists don't either.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 02:49:57 pm
And what about the cases where such sacrifices have indeed happened.
They certainly used Satanism as a reason.
Of course that takes us back to the "idiots speaking for the masses" part.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 23, 2013, 03:17:08 pm
@ kari: again, morons in power. most christias could care less if the other religions sacrificed, ate or even raped animals, it's their choice, but we are to try to guide people to the glory we know there is, same with the more agressively pro active jeovah's Witnesses (which I must say avoid me like the plague...) you used to be shinto...? that's wow...!

Personally I find it cool for someone to wear pentagrams, to me, the pentagram is the sign of the first pact of God... but know well the inverted one means bad things...

@ bella yeah agnostics are cool...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 23, 2013, 04:43:17 pm
the inverted pentagram is just a pentagram. it's the connotations associated with it that make people thing it's bad. again, the ties to satanism.

i detest jehova's witnesses. it's not only their slave-like devotion to their faith or their incessant need to "save" people (even when they tell them to go away, they don't want to be "saved"), but also because they find nothing wrong with beating their children senseless. there are special rooms in the meeting halls devoted to smacking around their children, providing such items as paddles and wooden spoons. if the child makes the slightest peep during the sermon, that's grounds for a beating.
how do i know this? someone i know read a book on their practices. and i used to know someone who was raised jehova's witness. she was beaten by her uber-religious parents and even molested by church officials. idk what happened to her, but last i heard she was a drug addict. not surprising considering she never got the help she needed.

i was shinto years ago, during that whole "finding oneself" period everyone goes through (mine was in regards to religion). i would have stayed shinto considering i agree with basically the entire groundwork they laid out (everything has a spirit, revere nature, pay tribute to the spirits regularly, especially on holidays), but i figured that since i didn't have access to a shinto temple to worship at, and didn't live near an asian community, i didn't have the resources needed to practice effectively. thus, i turned to paganism/wicca, which my sister had books on at the time, and fit the things i believed in nicely without the need for a communal meeting place (since the nearest religious centres are all christian/catholic; the nearest synagogue is several towns over, on the far edge of a city called Nashua). if i end up living near a shinto temple in the future, i think i'd worship there and participate in ceremonies such as the first shrine visit of the new year.

the pentagram, while cool, has a deep spiritual meaning for me. as i said before, i feel safer with it, as a catholic would with their rosary or cross.
the spiritual significance as i know it is in a couple ways, such as the shape. look at it, and then look at this. (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7IOC66m-yKI/TEF78IWle2I/AAAAAAAAAFA/aHjfU4ISgVA/s1600/VitruvianMan.jpg) i've always noticed the similarities between the human shape and the pentagram's shape, and i imagine that's part of the idea.
it's also possible the 5 points of the pentagram can reference the 5 elements: wind, water, earth, fire, and (cheesy as it sounds) heart/personal spirit.


also, it's not just morons in power. sarah palin never got as much power as she wanted and yet she appeals to masses of people. i think it's more about who yells the loudest, since after all, whether it's negative or positive, attention is attention.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on January 23, 2013, 04:44:42 pm
Ah, religion.
Not sure what to talk about, but being of Filipino ethnicity, the default religion is Roman Catholic, of which I am a member.

I guess I'm fairly religious, but I keep that close to my heart. Most people don't know unless they ask me. I've noticed that among the otaku crowd and among the young scientist/engineer crowd, I'm a rather rare sort. Not to mention I am Jesuit-educated, so I am more than willing question my religion.

As it stands, there certainly are questions, but since the Church is open to change, albeit very SLOW change (see: Copernicus/Galileo, Vatican II), I've found no real reason to leave. Faith in God and Church is still intact.

My cousin is Mormon, btw. Although, I'm pretty sure he converted so he could marry his girlfriend. He doesn't talk much about religion, but he hasn't changed anyhow, so I don't see anything wrong with it from that perspective. haha
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 23, 2013, 05:18:44 pm
@Kari: Your mentioning of a "finding oneself" phase reminds me of my own personal one; trying to find somewhere I belong. I suppose I finally found it, since I'm planning on a cross-country move :3

I generally can't stand Jehova's Witnesses, mostly due to the ones that go door-to-door, although one of my dad's former coworkers from the hospital was one, and he was a pretty cool guy in my opinion; he wasn't the type to try and convert his coworkers, and had respect for their beliefs.

Granted, I'm not fond of the kind of people who feel the need to force their religion onto others; regardless of what it might be, or what the other person's beliefs are. Even when I still identified as Christian, I still had other Christians trying to force their beliefs onto me because I seemed depressed. There was no way that could be because of working a soul-crushing job where it felt like most everyone hated my existence; it had to be that I wasn't part of their religion >_>
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 23, 2013, 05:29:12 pm
@ Sleepy in my case my religion is my family's motto on the side of my dad "Praise God thoough work..."

but I am as catholic as the anyone save the amish my church is dividing between holding out a shovel, handing concrete to my dad and granddad or doing some of the work myself and typing away in my laptop...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 23, 2013, 11:11:46 pm
Jesuits eh. Interesting. Most of what I know of them is that they used to be the Pope's private spy force back in the day...

An amusing thing to note is that the majority of Swedish feastdays and much of their celebration are, in fact, pagan - and nobody really cares much about the christian ones. The most important theme in our holidays remain, getting piss-drunk.

The "big" holidays in Sweden are Midsummer, Midwinter/Yule, New Year's and Walpurgis (30th of April/1st of May). Yule ("Jul" in swedish) has of course been set upon by the christian tradition like bloodhounds, but the big elements remain the same. Yes, the Advent is a purely christian tradition, but on the other side, Lucia is just a pagan tradition stamped with a random Italian saint and released back into the wild. While there's no sacrifice to be spoken of, the enormous feasts around the blot (Julbord) remain.
Midsummer is originally a fertility festival, and whatever the christians may think of it we still erect a 20 meter tall pole with 2 balls hanging from it every year, and dance around it like silly people and get piss-drunk and screw each other in the aftermath of that.
New Year's is the festival of bombs and explosions. Oh, and getting piss-drunk.
WALPURGIS (Valborg) is the festival of making an enormous fucking bonfire and getting piss-drunk. Uppsala is the national capital of this holiday, where it has been partitioned into a few easy-to-remember feastdays:
"Skvalborg" on the 28th, where the students start ramping things up and drinking their heads off.
"Kvalborg" on the 29th, where the students keep the pressure up and most notably half of the city's non-student population leaves town in order to avoid the chaos. They are of course replaced by more students elsewhere.
Valborg on the 30th, when the chaos is complete, with the annual river bash (people build floats and enter them in a rafting contest down the Fyris river in the middle of the city-center), the outrunning, and of course, bonfires everywhere. This is the day to be in Uppsala.
"Totalborg" on the 1st of May, when half the people are still hung over, half the others are out being political and the rest of town starting to trickle back home. This is pretty much the after-party to 3 straight days of partying, and it's crazy.

I'll give you coverage of it later :)

Nobody really cares much about easter except for the fact that you get a few days off work or a week off school, and you get an excuse to buy insane amounts of candy. Be ware - we do our Trick/Treat games on Maundy Thursday. You also paint eggs, hide candy-filled eggs and eat a lot. Oh, and let's not forget - get piss-drunk.
Halloween et al...nobody really cares, unless someone they knew died recently.

What are the big holidays where you live?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 24, 2013, 11:34:01 am
On the topic of holidays, Christmas trees, it is a Christmas tree, NOT a holiday tree.
People don't use one for any other holiday, so instead of sugar coating it, why not call it what it is.



Also that bonfire thing sounds like a lot of fun.
You get to burn things. :D ;D 8)


And another thing. God does not say personally(and you can dispute me on this) that he is a man. In fact he doesn't mention his personal gender once.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 11:57:47 am
good question nej! though it's a split question, as there are the "big holidays" and then the "holidays we celebrate".

this past year was a miserable one, but i can remember the previous year and give you the rundown of that.

~new years involves my parents (or at least my mum since my dad's a bit of a party-pooper) going off to some random party/my uncle's new year's bash and coming home (him)/coming home rather late (her). i usually sit at home alone in front of the tv with cream puffs to watch the ball drop.
~valentine's isn't much celebrated among us outside of the obligatory box o' chocos (lol), but occasionally i bake cookies for people. and sit at home and snuggle my plushies and feel less alone.
~st. patty's day is a touchy topic for me; being so close to my birthday it usually outshines my day. i even used to get told 'you should dye your hair green for st. patrick's day!!" by some of my less than intelligent classmates in high school, so typically i sit this one out, usually sporting a green ribbon somewhere so i don't get harassed. >>;
~easter used to involve candy/egg hunts, but now it just involves icky brunches at my aunt's house and going out the day after to splurge on discount jelly beans.
memorial day usually passes without much fanfare. someone might have a cookout if the weather's nice. parades go on, but i haven't been to a memorial day parade specifically in years.
~4th of july is another touchy one because TECHNICALLY my sister was born on the 4th of july. (her birth certificate, however, says the 3rd, since she was born overnight.) my uncle peter always has a HUGE cookout on the 4th of july (he's toned it down in recent years because most of his guests are asshole mooches with no manners, but in the past he used to have huge meaty blowouts with several steaks, hot dogs, burgers, and he's even roasted whole pigs in the past.) we usually stop by these days (i've sworn off his holiday parties for a couple reasons...), they light off some fireworks and we go to the salem fireworks behind the high school. there's a large field and we bring chairs and blankets and it's always a good time.
~labor day occasionally has a cookout. sometimes. if the weather's nice.
~halloween used to involve trolling 2 towns in search of candy (and if i was shorter i'd still go, since we live down the street from the mansions that give out king size candy bars and toys), but these days it usually means forgetting to buy the candy till the last minute and then just saying "screw it" cause no one comes to our house anyway.
~thanksgiving is where shit gets real. huge holiday dinners at multiple family members' houses. giant turkey AND giant ham. mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas, carrots, corn, squash, beets, 2 kinds of rolls and bread, homemade gravy, banana bread, homemade pies and cookies, etc etc. i haven't nicknamed it "National Stuff Your Face Day" for nothing. (such an american holiday. the whole purpose is to stuff your face and then fall asleep in front of the tv.)
~Christmas is the biggest holiday of the year around here. preperations would begin before december was even here, and there would be much christmas music and complaining over how there wasn't snow and mall-closing shopping trips and wrapping and SO. MANY. COOKIES.
this past christmas, however, was miserable. considering this was the first christmas without my grandmother, who was both the pillar of the family and the driving force behind the holiday, it felt empty in many ways. as we adjust and heal, the holiday will get better. but this past year was just plain depressing.

@simon: that is a misconception. the original traditions of Yule involved bringing a tree into the house. the christians co-opted a LOT of traditions for their holidays. so yes, it's alright to call it a holiday tree. and i don't like you calling other people's views/manner of speech foolish. think before you speak, boy.

@alphonso: so worship through hard work? hard work is a good value to have, religious or not ^^

@pent: i call it a "finding myself" phase because i don't have a better word for it. it wasn't really a time of confusion or latching onto different things till i found what fits. i was youngish, and was becoming more religiously self-aware, so it was just finding what came naturally. shintoism did, but due to lack of access i found something else that came even more naturally. helps that i got my first pentagram in 5th grade. xD
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 24, 2013, 12:57:02 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 11:57:47 am
@simon: that is a misconception. the original traditions of Yule involved bringing a tree into the house. the christians co-opted a LOT of traditions for their holidays. so yes, it's alright to call it a holiday tree. and i don't like you calling other people's views/manner of speech foolish. think before you speak, boy.


Will do.  I apologize if I insulted anyone, all I'm saying is that it's not tied to that many holidays, "holiday" is too broad a term.

If that was the case you'd see one on Valentines Day, or Easter or groundhogs day or even New years, people have probably done that for the fun of it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:11:11 pm
actually, we drove by a house that still has the tree up. :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 24, 2013, 01:15:38 pm
In my family, this is how it typically rolls:

- New Year's: We don't really do anything anymore. We had a tradition of going to see a movie in theaters on New Year's Eve, but that fell by the wayside after a while. So, now I typically do something on into next year...although 2012 into 2013 was the first time since about '06 that I didn't do anything, since I was feeling sick (Part of me regrets missing out on Changeling, but because I was forced to work a closing shift plus I was running a fever and couldn't really concentrate, there was no way I could have pulled it off)

- Valentine's Day: We never did anything special for it. Maybe mom and dad would go out for a nice dinner, but that's about it

- St. Patrick's Day: Baked potatoes for dinner. Hell yes -w-

- Dogwood Trails Festival: Not really a holiday, but a weekend-long festival in my hometown, which happens in early spring. We always went to the parade when I was little, and we'd often wonder around downtown during it (Where they have a small flea market, with people selling really cool stuff you can't easily find any other time of year).

- Easter: We typically meet up with family (Most often mom's side) and have a nice dinner, and also exchange birthday gifts (Since so many of the birthdays of the grandchildren on mom's side are in April). When I was younger, we did have Easter egg hunts, but those died off over time. We sometimes meet up with dad's side, but when we do, it's much smaller.

- Independence Day (4th of July): Most often, dad fires up the grill and makes cheeseburgers and hot dogs. We occasionally meet up with family for their barbecues, but it's not as often as it used to be.

- Halloween: For years I never got to take part in it, because of grandma ruining the holiday for dad by scaring him with the story about the guy who poisoned some candy. I did trick-or-treat for a while when mom finally decided "screw it; let's go meet up with your cousins and have some fun", which was enjoyable mostly for wearing a costume. Nowadays, since I rarely have an opportunity to go out in costume, I mostly watch old episodes of Are You Afraid of the Dark, or go all-out with cheesy horror movies such as Amityville IV (The one with the demon-possessed lamp killing people) or Killer Klowns from Outer Space.

- Thanksgiving: This is where things get complicated. I often have *two* Thanksgivings; typically meeting up with my dad's family for lunch, then meeting up with mom's family for dinner that night. Sometimes we don't meet with mom's family, though; since they often travel out of the way to meet up with relatives who, while knowing all about my aunts and their kids, seem shocked when they learn that mom got married and has two fully grown kids, which leads to me feeling out of place :\

- Christmas: While things have never been stable with Christmas on my mom's side (Sometimes we meet up before or after for gifts; depending on everyone's work schedules and holiday plans), my dad's side has a long-standing tradition going way back of everyone gathering together on Christmas Eve night and having a nice dinner before opening presents. It's always nice; as my grandpa makes damn good banana pudding, plus I often enjoy getting gifts for people (Although, I find it easier to shop for friends and my sister than anyone else; so while I often start Christmas shopping as early as August or September, I often don't have it finished until a few weeks before Christmas)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 24, 2013, 01:20:33 pm
I was born on St. Patrick's Day

Sorry if I'm coming off as a religious asshole.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:27:19 pm
i want banana pudding. :00

i forgot, there's 2 town festivals that we may or may not participate in:

The Strawberry Festival, which occurs about mid June. it used to be better, but since they've located everything at the new library it's sort of gone downhill. nowadays we really only go for the book sale, if we go at all.

Salemfest occurs sometime in mid-to-late September. there are various activities scattered throughout town, but since it usually occurs on a saturday we don't usually go, sadly. this past year was an exception, since i was over at my grandparents' on that saturday and managed to walk away from the book sale with 42 books/VHSes for $4. -w-

@simon: coo-oool. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on January 24, 2013, 01:30:55 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on January 23, 2013, 11:11:46 pm
Jesuits eh. Interesting. Most of what I know of them is that they used to be the Pope's private spy force back in the day...

Haha, can't say I've heard that, but soon after the Jesuits were founded they were a significant force for reforming the Church from the inside. See: Counter-Reformation. And at one point they were persecuted against by the Pope, so Jesuits have had ups and downs with their relationship with the Vatican.
There's also a very strong missionary streak with them, and were rather successful in doing so, like in Japan with St. Francis Xavier. Their success makes me think that they did not just preach blindly, they tried to understand the culture they were trying to convert first. (Damn good success too, since even after Japan closed itself off and actively persecuted Kirishitan Japanese, the descendants were still faithful even after 200+ years without western contact)

I feel this sort of culture of questioning and understanding (and a little bit of the military origins too) still permeates their educational efforts, and I am a product of said education. I would not trade it for anything else.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:11:11 pm
actually, we drove by a house that still has the tree up. :3

We bring down the tree at the Epiphany, which is generally the Sunday after New Year's for us. Unless we're lazy for some reason. haha
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:33:57 pm
i get the feeling either these people were lazy, wanted to leave it up for the winter or just liked having it around. at least it's not like the people that have the icicle lights still up in july. :\

i wasn't aware epiphany was a holiday. :0

as for jesuits, while i respect the desire to question everything and understand other cultures, i've never been fond of missionary cultures. the only good things to come of it was updated technology/medical treatments being given to cultures in the dark about such things. conversion, that i've never been fond of. i'm not fond of persecution, either, though.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 24, 2013, 01:35:47 pm
I actually have a miniature (Roughly 6-inch) Christmas tree up year round. Granted, the decorations are stored away; so it's just a decorative shrubbery the rest of the year
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:45:13 pm
i keep my little silver one out year-round....but that's mostly because i use it with my dolls and i don't feel like stashing it away when none of their other stuff is stashed away.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on January 24, 2013, 01:49:57 pm
(Reading about the persecution of the Jesuits, it seems they had the same problem that the Vatican had back then, in that they were also too concerned with worldy matters, so that's probably where Nejin's spy stuff could fit in)

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:33:57 pm
i get the feeling either these people were lazy, wanted to leave it up for the winter or just liked having it around. at least it's not like the people that have the icicle lights still up in july. :\

i wasn't aware epiphany was a holiday. :0

as for jesuits, while i respect the desire to question everything and understand other cultures, i've never been fond of missionary cultures. the only good things to come of it was updated technology/medical treatments being given to cultures in the dark about such things. conversion, that i've never been fond of. i'm not fond of persecution, either, though.

The Epiphany is basically when we start singing the "We Three Kings" carol. (so that event is actually distinct from Christmas itself)

Today, the missionary efforts are usually tied to some sort of aid or shelter, often in inner-cities and overseas. And if they don't accept the religion, I would hope they accept some of the tenets of our philosophy. We're not exclusive of non-Catholics. I graduated from a Jesuit high school, but I have friends from there who were and are atheist and also from other Christian denominations.

As for me, I am called to evangelize, but I won't directly make that suggestion. I think living my own life is enough. Just earning other people's respect is enough for me. Many, many people don't hold the Church in high regard. We're not all bad. Just putting that message out there (indirectly as it may be) is enough for me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 01:54:49 pm
hm, alright. the only time i'd really have any problems with someone of another faith is 1. if their practices outwardly hurt people (such as human sacrifice or the beating of children), 2. if they regard other religions with scorn (such as some of the more closed-minded religions seeing anything that's not the norm as "evil"), or 3. if they actively try to convert others either in an attempt to "save" them or for other reasons (after all, that isn't acceptance, no matter how much they might say it is). :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 24, 2013, 01:58:12 pm
How about another debate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on January 24, 2013, 02:05:36 pm
Out of those, I can't see any self-respecting Jesuit do any of those.
Although, it is a very BIG religious society, with many laypersons. It's possible that they are doing things that fall into 2 and 3, especially if they are unaware that they are doing so. It could even be a fault of personality/upbringing. We are merely human after all.
(And if they are doing anything that falls into 1, that should not be under the banner of Catholics or the Jesuits--if so, that is despicable)

Quote from: Simonorged on January 24, 2013, 01:58:12 pm
How about another debate.

Gun control? lol
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 24, 2013, 02:25:28 pm
Sure

I'd kinda against gun control, I mean If you restrict it, only the bad guys will have them.
I remember hearing something that said that almost everyone who lives in Canada has a gun
and crime is actually less there than in America. I honestly think that you should have to pass 3 mental evaluations before you can get one. It's a little too difficult to get a gun, I believe here you need 3 permits to legally use one.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 24, 2013, 06:21:28 pm
I think better gun control would be a good thing; such as requiring mental evaluations in addition to the usual background checks, to reduce the chances of it falling into the hands of a crazy person. The people in my hometown would be strongly against it, I can guarantee you, but I feel it'd be the right thing to do
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 08:28:44 pm
i have a good system in mind for guns.

you should be able to buy any sort of firearm provided you have the money, from little bitty derringers all the way up to bazookas and rocket launchers. the only difference between getting a derringer and a bazooka is the required amount of background checks. the bigger/more powerful the gun, the more background checks and the bigger the waiting period. for the heavy artillery i mentioned, the waiting perioid might be between 5-10 years and they might run multiple, thorough criminal background checks and mental evaluations. a bazooka can be a great conversation piece to hang over your mantle. but not before you pass enough psych evals to drive the insane sane.

as with the current system, we need more policing. don't get me wrong, i like guns and would like to learn how to shoot, and it's ludicrious to try to outlaw them (they're too widespread; it'd be like outlawing shoes), but we need to have more stringent policies on such things, such as more background checks, psych evals, and less ease of access at gun shows and trade shows. a national standard for buying/selling/owning guns would be nice too, since it varies from state to state.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on January 24, 2013, 08:43:23 pm
Casually enters late into the conversation
Quote from: Simonorged on January 23, 2013, 11:38:01 am
We cant take the splinter out of the friend eye without taking the 2 by 4 out of our own.
And mine is pretty lodged in there.

I had a pastor once who said the exact same thing. I chuckled, as well as agreed.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 23, 2013, 04:43:17 pm
i detest jehova's witnesses. it's not only their slave-like devotion to their faith or their incessant need to "save" people (even when they tell them to go away, they don't want to be "saved"), but also because they find nothing wrong with beating their children senseless. there are special rooms in the meeting halls devoted to smacking around their children, providing such items as paddles and wooden spoons. if the child makes the slightest peep during the sermon, that's grounds for a beating.
how do i know this? someone i know read a book on their practices. and i used to know someone who was raised jehova's witness. she was beaten by her uber-religious parents and even molested by church officials.

I have an uncle and aunt who are Jehovas Witnesses. They don't do any of that (as far as I know), but their beliefs, personally, are out there. From my uncle trying to convert our family, Ive learned apparently they believe only a select few make it to heaven. As in, a few of the best of the best Jehovas Witnesses go to heaven. Then the rest stay on earth. everyone else is in torture and is ruled by the witnesses that didn't make the "heavenly cut". It seems odd. (I even had an idea of a comic strip like what youd see in the sunday paper centered around this, but that's for another day.)

Also, I guess one could say im agnostic...
Its hard to explain. I mean, my ideas are like a cross between atheism and Christianity, which seems impossible. Its hard to explain, and involves theory and such...
The easiest way I explain things to people:
Quote from: Amy Fara FowlerI don't deny the existence of a deity, but im baffled by the notion of one who takes attendance.

(Its hard to put what I theorize into words. I use "agnostic" since I accept the possibility I am wrong, and do not definitively believe in one thing. I have theories. Not beliefs.)

Gun Control:
No one should have concealed carry. Period. People who wish to have a gun should require special permits and will only be allowed for use in recreation, occupation, and home protection (meaning it doesn't leave the home). The whole idea of having a concealed weapon for protection backfires a lot of the time. Guns of a certain length or shorter should be banned, and automatic and heavy duty weapons should be banned. Those exempt from such a ban should be Military, Police, etc... Our use of guns has gone far beyond that of constitutional right in recent years. It needs to be stopped.

Id bring up Windows 8, since itd fit the topic (I know >_<) but thatd end up getting this whole topic locked. Trust me. Again, I know, >_<
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 24, 2013, 08:48:04 pm

OK, starting with the hollidays:


Dec.31 /Jan 1st. it's new years' eve, so a nice family dinner with us all behaving on our best behavior (this year was grilled meat...). My older sister goes with her Mother in Law.


Jan 6th. Three kings Day/ Dia de Reyes. here we cut the traditional King's bagel, and whomever finds small "baby Jesus" figurines has to get the tamales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamale) in Feb. 2nd. This year, I got the yisus


Feb. 2 La Candelaria Day: Tamalefest... mom and other ladies of the Momma side of the family make tamales and are eaten.

Feb.3 Moping Day-: J/k, it's my B-day, some years I mope, some not

Feb 5th. Constitution Day: I observe it, but it's a celebration most personal.

Feb. 13. Ash Wednesday: go to the "Sanctuary", to get said ash.

Feb. 14. Valentine's day... I don't celebrate this much...

Feb. 24. Flag Day: one of the Mexican trinity, it's custom to have flags on the homes, conmemorating the diverse flags the country used.

Mar. 18. Nationalization of Petroleum Industry: no observed, but remembered, maybe with a week long wallpaper in the computer.

Mar 21. Benito Juárez B-day: we used to go camping...

(This year)

Mar. 24. Domingo de Ramos (Palm Sunday): Mom sometimes go to church

Mar. 28. to Mar. 31: Jueves Santo (Maundy Thursday), Viernes Santo (Good Friday), Sábado Santo y de Gloria (Holy Saturday) and Domingo de Gloria/Pascua de Resurrección (Easter Sunday): we observe more strictly the fast, eating lots'o easter food until noon...

Apr 30. Children's day: gifts to my nephews n' nieces.

May 1st. Labor day: watch the parade on the stupid box, mom and dad used to act in the city's parade

May 5th. The Battle of Puebla (yup, the same Holiday Ya gringos took from us ;) ) it is remembered, but I guess not in the scale the Mexicans living in the US do..

May 10th. Moms' day Should I say more...?

Jun. 16. Dads day: used it as excuse for not to go to college, alongside Dad's B-day.

Sept. 1st: Día del Informe Presidencial (President's State of the Union Address): watch the Address...

Sept. 13: Young Heroes' Day: just watch the ceremmonies.

Sept. 15: Independence Cry: GET YOUR FUCKING ASS OFF TO THE PLAZA DE ARMAS TO SEE THE GRITO YA MORON!

Sept. 16: Independence Day: watch the parade and some indy moovies

Nov. 2nd. Day of the Dead-All Souls Day: Go to a nearby town to visit My grandpa and other Relatives alreadyu on the other side o' da pillow

Nov. 20. Revolution Day: again, watch the parade, idiot box or live matters not...

Dec. 12. Our Lady of Guadalupe: Get to the Sanctuary to sing Momma's the Happy B-day...

Dec. 24. Christmas Eve: A traditional Family Dinner.

Dec. 25: Christmas: GET UP YA BUM...! PRESENTS TIME!!!!

From Dec.16 to Jan. 16 two days are used to have a Rosary reading commemorating the way Mary laid to sleep the Baby yisus (Acostada) and to Have him wake up for the Year (Levantada), it comes with a big feast of Meehican foods, including tamale.

And 'bout Gun Control... yes, you gringos should control whom gets the high power guns, not trying to twart your right to defend yourselves, but if you are mentally unstable or stupid enough to let guns in child's reach, then you shouldn't deserve to have it on the first time... also, avoid selling to idiots visiting, 'cause that how many many meehicans die every year, 'cause the drug criminals go and  buy cheap, easy to obtain guns in the US, and then smuggle them to Mexico to kill people...

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 24, 2013, 09:00:50 pm
Re: Gun control: I must say my own personal thoughts line up quite closely with Kari's and I like her idea of having more rigorous background checks for more powerful weapons. I'm not sure about bazookas, but I think it's ridiculous to ban certain kinds of guns while keeping others legal. Let's face it, every gun has the potential to be deadly in the hands of a person who WANTS to make it deadly - from automatic firearms to hunting weapons - and if you take away the automatic weapons, criminals are just going to end up with other kinds (which, granted, can't take as many lives as quickly, but can take lives nonetheless).

To further elaborate my own thoughts...

I'm going to wager a guess that, despite being very liberal in practically every political and social way, I'm probably among the most "conservative" people here when it comes to gun control. In theory, I support background checks on ALL gun purchases (though I'm not sure how this could be applied practically in private gun sales, gun shows and the like...) and wouldn't object to some sort of gun / gun-owner registry, but again, I really don't know if it could be implemented. For the most part, I'm against mental evaluations on gun purchasers - partially because I dislike how it adds further stigma to the mentally-ill (when mentally-ill people are far more likely to be the victims of crime than the perpetrators)  but also because I highly doubt it would lower the rate of gun crime, particularly the horrific spree-murder sort that sparkled the recent gun control debate to begin with. For instance, Adam Lanza attempted to buy a rifle of his own (http://www.pressherald.com/news/adam-lanza-attempted-failed-to-purchase-his-own-gun-sources-say_2012-12-16.html) - and he was declined - so he stole the weapons from his mother. As much as I hate to say it, I doubt all the safeguards in the world will keep weapons out of the hands of those wishing to commit acts of violence.

As well, i think gun control is something of an "easy" solution (I use this word loosely since it's still a complicated issue). Right now people are upset and want some - ANY - solution to the violence. But instead of trying to tackle the amazingly complex root problems (of which mental illness might play a part, but is certainly not the be-all and end-all) they just want to "get rid of" the instruments through which this violence is perpetrated. Because blaming guns and "gun culture" is one hell of a lot easier than closely examining the psychological and social issues that lead people to violence in the first place.

On a closing note, I'd like to mention that I've worked with air-guns in the past and have yet to take shooting lessons with "real" firearms, but would love to for the purposes of sport and self-defense. It's a goal of mine to get a concealed carry permit / license at some point in the future, especially if I ever live someplace remote or where it's not quite as safe to live an independent life as a woman as it is in my native New England.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 24, 2013, 09:32:47 pm
@Bella: You do raise a good point. I don't think I'd ever have a need to carry a gun, but I can understand that some would feel safer with one

After all, happiness is a warm gun </the_beatles>
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 24, 2013, 09:34:13 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on January 24, 2013, 09:32:47 pm
@Bella: You do raise a good point. I don't think I'd ever have a need to carry a gun, but I can understand that some would feel safer with one

After all, happiness is a warm gun </the_beatles>

tell that to the millions unarmed mexicans killed in the last two years...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 24, 2013, 09:43:38 pm
Well, yeah, or the people killed in one of the several school shootings here. I referenced that song to relate to some people feeling safer with a weapon on them, not to make the murderers seem right :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 24, 2013, 10:15:49 pm
Except the gun violence problem in Mexico is less of a "gun problem" and more of a "narcotics continuing to be illegal (and thus fueling the violent drug cartels) problem". If they became legalized, the illegal trade would collapse and violence would cease.

I think I just brought up another hot button topic. >_> While I personally loathe the thought of recreational drug use and have never ingested anything heavier than prescription NSAIDs, I'm also libertarianistic when it comes to drugs; I think they should be legalized and regulated / taxed by the government, just like the drugs that are legal at the moment (alcohol, tobacco, various mind-altering-and/or-potentially-addictive prescription medications, etc). :/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 24, 2013, 10:36:03 pm
Quote from: Bella on January 24, 2013, 10:15:49 pm
Except the gun violence problem in Mexico is less of a "gun problem" and more of a "narcotics continuing to be illegal (and thus fueling the violent drug cartels) problem". If they became legalized, the illegal trade would collapse and violence would cease.


It's similar to the ants... Last Goverment Shove a stick in the anthill, then the ants went to the US, bought weapons (Some distrib uted by the US Govt. itself) and starting Killing people to retain the little control they believed they had... in related news (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=es-419&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milenio.com%2Fcdb%2Fdoc%2Fnoticias2011%2F745cdf2f1ec43dc99c99be1628fd4ca0&act=url)

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 24, 2013, 11:09:26 pm
@alfonso: the way you described some of those holidays made me laugh heartily. christmas used to be like that around here. now i let my mum sleep untill she's ready to get up, which could be anywhere from 10-2pm. xD
@dustii: your aunt and uncle are probably nice people. what i was saying was about the religion as a whole and what i've heard/experienced. the jehova's witness people used to come regularly to my house and would sit for coffee with my mum. they never converted us, but they gave me the creeps, especially with how much EMPHASIS they put on the religion in their lives. as i was not raised that way, putting that level of devotion to something so untangible weirded me out. after we heard what the religion was like from my friend and his girlfriend at the time (the jehova's witness girl i mentioned), we ended up tossing them out of our lives in disgust.

i'm aware what agnostic is, just for the record. i was agnostic for awhile. :3

@gun control: i support the method of gun control i described because, as i said, it's ludicrious to outlaw it. we get rid of guns, we have a second prohibition era on our hands. they're too ingrained with society to be taken away now. it'd be like outlawing cars or penicillin.
and even if we do, it's not going to stop the killing. those that want to intimidate or kill will just find new methods, or turn to old ones, such as swords or poison. which would be a great boost to the revival of medieval cultures. :\
i support the psych evals because, while it might further the stigma attached to those with mental illness, it is a vital part of the process to ensure that no one who can't handle the responsibility of owning a gun gets their hands on one. (and that's someone who HAS a mental illness saying that.) that's not to say they couldn't do it illegally, but if we had stricter laws concerning the illegal sale of guns (10+ years jail time, maybe?) and (as i said before) a national standard, the possibility of buying one illegally would drop.
as for gun shows, you can buy guns there with little to no background checks whatsoever. i'm not saying get rid of them entirely, i'm saying restrict the sale of guns at gun shows to DEALERS ONLY. dealers who undergo even stricter checks in order to keep their license, and have to go to these tradeshows/gun shows with proof that they are indeed a legal dealer of arms.
i'm a supporter of conceal-carry permits. there have been times when i've felt less than safe walking around (and was walking around clutching my knife), and a gun would make me feel that much safer. most of the time it's hard to conceal a weapon on your person anyway, and pulling it out of a purse or bag lends that much more time in between, meaning there's more time for police to react (or for the perp to react, which is bad). i also don't like the idea of only letting military personel or police have certain weapons, because what happens if they commit a crime or go off the deep end? what if they abuse their power? i want the ability to protect myself, since while i trust the police 99% of the time, i trust myself 100% of the time. >>;

@drugs: i detest drugs in any form, but i support medical marijuana. there is a legitimate need for it in some cases, and that shouldn't be overshadowed by the recreational users that abuse it. mind you, i only support using it when ALL other options have been exahusted. but there are some extreme cases of cancer, MS, and other serious conditions where marijuana can have a theraputic effect. it can also be used to treat some mental disorders, but i support more traditional methods in this case, if possible.

as for other drugs, most had an intended medical purpose at one point, but have been rendered obsolete and instead been recycled into recreational drugs. these i DON'T support the useage of, but wouldn't care too much if they became legalized. however, any sort of medical application is out of the question; you wouldn't let your barber use leeches for regular bleedings, right?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 24, 2013, 11:43:14 pm
On drug use, I don't have a problem with people who do it so long as they don't force it onto others and they only do it when in the company of people who don't mind. I don't do any drugs myself, aside from over-the-counter medicine when I need it (Most commonly, its allergy medicine), but I don't have a problem with people who do use it.

As for medical marijuana, I find it fascinating; taking something that normally is looked down upon and putting it to use in a way to help people in need. It's like how the pharmacy in the hospital I used to work at actually kept beer from what I heard; since some doctors would actually prescribe it to their patients
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 25, 2013, 01:12:09 am
beer used to be used for some medicinal cases in the old days, i'm sure. so i think that's just a case of antique treatments still being used.

a close friend was looking to open up a pot dispensery in mass, since the license is coming up. he's actually working on ways to get the THC into other items, such as food and soda, meaning that there wouldn't even be a need to smoke anymore. it marajuana really marajuana when it's in the form of a cherry or chocolate soda?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 25, 2013, 05:38:17 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_brownies
Hmmmmmm
I would say very much yes, they still are...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 25, 2013, 08:32:22 am
Anything that gets you out of your usual state of mind is bad in my opinion.
Anything that gets you chemically addicted is bad in my opinion. Even coffee.

It's sad how weed is better for you than cigarettes.
But apparently weed is more fun. .__.

I will not touch any substance legal or not.

I say coffee because people have with-drawls.
Symptoms: Splitting headache, Grumpy, and a crash after.

Quote from: DustiiWolf on January 24, 2013, 08:43:23 pm
Gun Control:
No one should have concealed carry. Period. People who wish to have a gun should require special permits and will only be allowed for use in recreation, occupation, and home protection (meaning it doesn't leave the home). The whole idea of having a concealed weapon for protection backfires a lot of the time. Guns of a certain length or shorter should be banned, and automatic and heavy duty weapons should be banned. Those exempt from such a ban should be Military, Police, etc... Our use of guns has gone far beyond that of constitutional right in recent years. It needs to be stopped.

I still think if people had the weapon they needed to defend themselves, there would be less rapes, muggings, and other such crimes.

They wouldn't be so inclined to do something if the victim to be could kill the attacker.
But then we would have the wild west deal where people would test to see who could shoot first...

They're not going to attack someone who can defend themselves since its somewhat a dominance thing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 25, 2013, 11:02:06 am
The whole thing with "gun control"...

It's not the guns you need to find, it's the dangerous people. (Quoth my mom whenever we pass an airport security check)

You can see that in the way the canadians have more guns per capita in some places than nearby americans, but the canadians have waaaaaaaay lower crime/murder rates despite that.

It is, I'm afraid, a cultural thing. It's less a need for gun control, and more a need for mind control until you've got the bad strains out of the populace's heads, really...



On drugs, I've just never seen the gain. At all. It damages your brain, which I'm fiercely possessive of, and I'm trippy enough without drugs. 90% of all booze tastes like shit, and I'd puke before I could draw a single breath on a cigarette. My taste/smell senses are rather overpowered...

Come to think of it, so are my other senses as well, but that's a discussion for another time. inb4ubermench
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 25, 2013, 11:25:05 am
Quote from: Simonorged on January 25, 2013, 08:32:22 am
Anything that gets you out of your usual state of mind is bad in my opinion.
Anything that gets you chemically addicted is bad in my opinion. Even coffee.


Not to sound snippy, but I honestly wonder - do you also believe this applies to people on anti-psychotic medications? Anti-depressants? Other mind-altering (but legal and potentially-helpful) drugs? In fact, almost every medication on the market has the potential to cause mind-altering effects (even ones that are very innocuous and common - for instance, some people have bad emotional reactions to hormonal birth control or become very tired and dazed-feeling on antihistamines), should people avoid those drugs too?

As for chemical addictions, if you're anti-caffeine, are you also against sugar? Trans-fats? MSG? Other substances that are in everyday (typically, processed) food that have been proven to be unhealthy and addictive to one degree or another? Do you read labels and avoid all foods with caffeine, sugar, MSG and trans-fats in them?

Quote from: NejinOniwa on January 25, 2013, 11:02:06 am
The whole thing with "gun control"...

It's not the guns you need to find, it's the dangerous people. (Quoth my mom whenever we pass an airport security check)

You can see that in the way the canadians have more guns per capita in some places than nearby americans, but the canadians have waaaaaaaay lower crime/murder rates despite that.

It is, I'm afraid, a cultural thing. It's less a need for gun control, and more a need for mind control until you've got the bad strains out of the populace's heads, really...


Yes. This.

QuoteOn drugs, I've just never seen the gain. At all. It damages your brain, which I'm fiercely possessive of, and I'm trippy enough without drugs. 90% of all booze tastes like shit, and I'd puke before I could draw a single breath on a cigarette. My taste/smell senses are rather overpowered...


YES. This again. I'm already super-paranoid and doubtful of existence as it is, I don't need drugs to make me even more freaked-out. :/

Although, as Kari and Pent mentioned, I do support the use of certain banned drugs in medicinal applications. Pot is considered something of a "soft" drugs and is quite famous for its various therapeutic properties, but even some harder ones may have a use in medicine. MDMA comes to mind - apparently it's proven successful in certain psychiatric therapies for anxiety and PTSD (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2007/01/what_a_long_strange_trip_its_been.html). (Actually, this whole article comes to mind (http://www.cracked.com/article_20023_5-illegal-drugs-with-surprisingly-wholesome-medical-uses.html).)

I guess what I'm saying is, while I, personally, don't support recreational drug use, I don't have my proverbial pantaloons in a bunch over people who DO partake in drugs responsibly. That goes for alcohol as well as the illegal narcotics. And I don't think there should be any shame surrounding people who use illegal drugs under the guidance of doctors as medicine, any more than you'd shame a person for taking any other sort of prescription medication. (Bearing in mind that some meds can be just as dangerous and addictive as their illegal counterparts - oxycodone and other powerful pain medications, for example...)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 25, 2013, 11:30:21 am
Quote from: Bella on January 25, 2013, 11:25:05 am
Not to sound snippy, but I honestly wonder - do you also believe this applies to people on anti-psychotic medications? Anti-depressants? Other mind-altering (but legal and potentially-helpful) drugs? In fact, almost every medication on the market has the potential to cause mind-altering effects (even ones that are very innocuous and common - for instance, some people have bad emotional reactions to hormonal birth control or become very tired and dazed-feeling on antihistamines), should people avoid those drugs too?

As for chemical addictions, if you're anti-caffeine, are you also against sugar? Trans-fats? MSG? Other substances that are in everyday (typically, processed) food that have been proven to be unhealthy and addictive to one degree or another? Do you read labels and avoid all foods with caffeine, sugar, MSG and trans-fats in them?


I personally don't like the Idea of medication at all. I worked my ass off to get off mine.
But to answer your question, no i don't think those should be avoided, such things as anti depressants can save lives.

And no I do not, I'm fat. The only reason I avoid coffee is because I've seen people who have had serious side affects from it.

And most of the other things affect people most when they're allergic to it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 25, 2013, 12:23:21 pm
Ah, okay, I was just curious. And trying to make a point, that there are a lot more potentially-dangerous and potentially-addictive substances in the food and medicine supply than most people believe.

(Edited and made into a new post, since I think my last one was unnecessarily-harsh and simplistic-sounding.)

Quote from: DustiiWolf on January 24, 2013, 08:43:23 pmGun Control:
No one should have concealed carry. Period. People who wish to have a gun should require special permits and will only be allowed for use in recreation, occupation, and home protection (meaning it doesn't leave the home). The whole idea of having a concealed weapon for protection backfires a lot of the time. Guns of a certain length or shorter should be banned, and automatic and heavy duty weapons should be banned. Those exempt from such a ban should be Military, Police, etc... Our use of guns has gone far beyond that of constitutional right in recent years. It needs to be stopped.


Except some people actually have valid reasons for feeling unsafe and needing to have that level of protection on themselves. Sometimes it IS an occupational thing - for instance, diamond dealers and other people who carry valuable materials and/or large quantities of money on their person sometimes carry concealed weapons to defend themselves against muggers and thieves. Other people face real threats against their safety or lives, like stalkers, obsessed exes, friends or even strangers. Due to the nature of stalking, it's often difficult to get stalkers sent to jail (unless they make a physical attack or DOCUMENTED death-threats) and sometimes people have to take their protection into their own hands.

As well, some groups of people are simply more disposed to facing violence than others. My reason for wanting a concealed weapon isn't occupational or because I know of someone who wishes to do me harm, but simply because of my gender. Although American society has made great strides in getting women recognized as Real Human Beings, there are still plenty of places where it's not exactly safe to live an independent life as a female. If having a weapon will make a mugger or rapist take a second thought about attacking me, I'd like to have one on my person. And, well, if I were attacked, you better believe I'd want to fight back with the deadliest force available to me.

What I'm getting as is not every person who wants to carry a concealed weapon is some sort of paranoid, gun-thumping yahoo who wants to stick it to the man (*coughs and side-eyes the Tea Party Patriots*). Every person is different and faces different circumstances, and to ban them outright could put many peoples' safety and lives at risk. 

Also, you may notice that absolutely none of the recent mass-shootings have involved people with concealed carry permits. Murderous people don't follow the rule of law - hence their being murderous in the first place. I don't care if concealed carry was banned, if assault weapons were banned, if shotguns and rifles and semi-auto pistols and revolvers were banned, violent people WOULD get a hold of guns, and they would use them. Banning certain classes of guns, putting up more limits on gun purchasing and saying who can and can't carry them will not keep firearms out of the hands of violent people - it'll only put restrictions on non-criminals and people with valid reasons for needing guns.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 25, 2013, 12:43:31 pm
guess you wouldn't be too fond of me then. xD (*is a caffiene addict*)

@gun control: nej clarified my thoughts rather nicely. as i said before, banning guns would bring about a second prohibition. the rumrunners and bootleggers did a steady business back in the 20's, who's to say that gun smugglers wouldn't have a similar success?

@drugs: while what bella posted sounds....interesting....i still don't like the idea of the majority of illegal substances being used as medicinal treatment. one has to weigh the side effects with the benefits in this case--considering the chance of DEATH highly outweighs the same chance in other (prescribed) drugs, i don't see the point in using the illegal ones. and with some other manufactured drugs (such as ecstasy or especially meth), the other side effects can be plenty devastating as well (ever heard of meth mouth?).

personally, i don't have a liking for drugs in any form. the smell of the raw cannibus plant is enough to make me puke, and i have stoner thoughts as it is. i don't need help with that. >>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 25, 2013, 01:04:46 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 25, 2013, 12:43:31 pm
guess you wouldn't be too fond of me then. xD (*is a caffiene addict*)

personally, i don't have a liking for drugs in any form. the smell of the raw cannibus plant is enough to make me puke, and i have stoner thoughts as it is. i don't need help with that. >>;;


No no no, you got it wrong, It's coffee I don't like not coffee adicts
&
Me too.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 25, 2013, 01:05:16 pm
lol, fair enough. and i hate coffee with a passion. it's coca-cola that gives me my fix. ^^;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on January 25, 2013, 02:34:59 pm
Quote from: Bella on January 25, 2013, 12:23:21 pm
Except some people actually have valid reasons for feeling unsafe and needing to have that level of protection on themselves. Sometimes it IS an occupational thing - for instance, diamond dealers and other people who carry valuable materials and/or large quantities of money on their person sometimes carry concealed weapons to defend themselves against muggers and thieves.

Like I had stated, occupational uses are alright. That diamond dealer can have a gun.

Quote from: Bella on January 25, 2013, 12:23:21 pm
Other people face real threats against their safety or lives, like stalkers, obsessed exes, friends or even strangers. Due to the nature of stalking, it's often difficult to get stalkers sent to jail (unless they make a physical attack or DOCUMENTED death-threats) and sometimes people have to take their protection into their own hands.

As well, some groups of people are simply more disposed to facing violence than others. My reason for wanting a concealed weapon isn't occupational or because I know of someone who wishes to do me harm, but simply because of my gender. Although American society has made great strides in getting women recognized as Real Human Beings, there are still plenty of places where it's not exactly safe to live an independent life as a female. If having a weapon will make a mugger or rapist take a second thought about attacking me, I'd like to have one on my person. And, well, if I were attacked, you better believe I'd want to fight back with the deadliest force available to me.

True. But there is alternatives to guns for protection. Stun guns for instance. There are handheld models that when discharged can electrocute someone from a short distance. Remember, the point of a gun (whether one likes it or not) is to kill. Whether it (the gun) is for protection or not depends on the user, but a gun, for the most part, is designed to kill. There are more humane ways of protection. Plus, a weapon is a weapon. There are even stun guns that look like actual guns. I doubt a rapist or a stalker is gonna stop to think "Hmmm is that a real gun or a stun gun and should I take the chance, and could I handle the electrocution if its a stun gun, as well as should I risk it if its real." (I may be wrong though.)

Quote from: Bella on January 25, 2013, 12:23:21 pm
What I'm getting as is not every person who wants to carry a concealed weapon is some sort of paranoid, gun-thumping yahoo who wants to stick it to the man (*coughs and side-eyes the Tea Party Patriots*). Every person is different and faces different circumstances, and to ban them outright could put many peoples' safety and lives at risk. 

Never said they were. and I understand an OUTRIGHT ban could do such things. But I wasn't suggesting such (I should of explained more)

Quote from: Bella on January 25, 2013, 12:23:21 pm
Also, you may notice that absolutely none of the recent mass-shootings have involved people with concealed carry permits. Murderous people don't follow the rule of law - hence their being murderous in the first place. I don't care if concealed carry was banned, if assault weapons were banned, if shotguns and rifles and semi-auto pistols and revolvers were banned, violent people WOULD get a hold of guns, and they would use them. Banning certain classes of guns, putting up more limits on gun purchasing and saying who can and can't carry them will not keep firearms out of the hands of violent people - it'll only put restrictions on non-criminals and people with valid reasons for needing guns.

I know that wasn't the case. And my point is, if certain guns were banned (with certain allowable exceptions), those guns would legally have to be taken from the market. They would be less easily accessed. A number of criminals would no longer have access to such weapons. Now yes, I know those hardened criminals will just get them on the black market, but I never said this plan would 100% solve things. There would have to be other things in place along with it.

Overall, this wouldn't be foolproof, but it could help. If there are those who are deemed necessary to own a gun for protection, they should have one. But every citizen getting a gun "to feel safe" I feel is a bit excessive. As well as owning guns for the sake of owning. From what I read, one of the more recent mass shootings, the guns belonged to the shooters mother, who was a collector.
Also, a citizen does not need a bazooka, nor an fully-automatic weapon. Some weapons we don't need.
We would also need government regulation on black market weapons for this to work. Otherwise, you are correct, the criminals will get them anyways.

Im not saying this is the only way to fix things. But it could help. (People wouldn't be removed of their right to carry weapons, but only those who need a gun (for protection/occupation, and exception for things such as hunting {occupation/recreation} and shooting ranges {recreation/learning}) would own one.

There needs to be some kind of regulation. not an overall ban, but stricter rules, and limit on what kind of weapons are sold.

Im also open to the whole psych eval. thing. That could help as well, making sure the mentally ill (and downright loony) people don't obtain deadly weapons.

Theres a lot of different ways we could fix this, each one having their ups and downs. Psych eval cant detect that a mother will lose her job and become desperate around Christmas. (Seriously. A woman in a minivan robbed a gas station at gun point here this past holiday season. Clerk said she seemed desperate. Police didn't find her last I knew.). Ban on certain weapons still leaves some weapons to be obtained. Theyre a no Win scenario. Guns are the Kobi Ashi Maru.

As far as drugs are concerned, some things that could be used for medical purposes im okay with. There are over the counter medications that can be more dangerous hen some of the "illegal" drugs out there. (Its all about how you use the drug/medication).
Recreational use, however, I see no sense in. If you want a rush, get a cup of coffee. Play a video game. Go outdoors and run. Don't waste away your health.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 25, 2013, 03:15:13 pm
As far as the 'assault weapon' bans are concerned my worry is that we're going to see a lot of first generation assault rifles, battle rifles, etc. destroyed or confiscated from collectors, historians, reenactors, or museums under them.  Its time to face up to the fact that the M16 debuted almost fifty years ago, and early models are now historically significant relics.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on January 25, 2013, 04:37:24 pm
Re: Gun control
assault "weapon"
see what they did there? With that term, they can really just make up arbitrary ban lists. Seriously, that ban list is so arbitrary it's enraging. Since when did a "pistol grip" make someone a significantly more efficient killer than a rifle without it? Face it, the killers will use whatever gun is readily available, and that's that. Doesn't matter if it looks like/is a military weapon or not.
Having said that, I am indeed against a weapons ban. If you want to ban guns over features that make sense, like full-auto, that's fine with me. Just don't start banning guns for weird cosmetic things like having a damn pistol grip.

I have similar sentiment to Nejin, in that it's a cultural problem (see Switzerland: http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/), and you cannot simply impose laws in order to change that. I think a more stringent gun training course would help more in that direction. Of course, more training/education requires money, and that means, the cost (in time and money) to get a license will shoot up along with it.
But I think it should cost a lot to acquire a weapon such as that, and if you're licensed I should be able to trust you with it.

On that note, we have education/training covered, but as far as background checks are concerned, they are often unaware about any mental disorders a buyer may have. The stigma that still exists on things like depression prevents many people (themselves or others) from reporting it or seeking treatment for it.  So there needs to be a second cultural change there, in the perception of such disorders. If possible, a gun license should go with a mental check-up, I think.

I've presented my case before on facebook soon after the Connecticut shootings, and I don't think my ardent gun supporter and ardent gun control friends of mine liked it all too much. haha... such is compromise, I guess.

Re: Coffee
I learned to like coffee. Tea is my first love, however. And as far as caffeine in those are concerned, it has little effect on me. At best it makes me feel less sleepy in the morning, but I certainly won't start bouncing off the walls with a cup of strong coffee, no matter what time of day. I can even fall asleep quite soundly after having a strong cup of coffee at night. (Just give me an hour or so afterwards) It's possible I don't drink enough for it to even have an effect, or I've developed (or naturally have) a tolerance for it.

Energy drinks probably have so much caffeine and other stuff in em that they do hype me up, but at the same time, they just make me feel horrible. So I'm hyper, but useless. No go on productivity for that stuff.
A lot of people recommend that 5-hour energy drink stuff to me, but I could never get over the price. haha
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 25, 2013, 04:46:54 pm
On coffee, I enjoy it. My dad and I used to meet up with grandpa every Wednesday morning to have coffee with him :3

As for energy drinks (Monster, Red Bull, etc.), I find those nasty; give me coffee over it anyday.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 25, 2013, 05:10:22 pm
i've heard 5 hour energy actually works. seems my dad tried it, and he's for it.
as for caffiene, i can't stand the taste of coffee or energy drinks, but tea and soda fit my palette just fine. -w-
i started drinking coca-cola to combat depression, but i'm so entrenched in the need for it now that it takes me at least 3 or so just to get buzzed. ^^;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 25, 2013, 10:15:01 pm
3 Goddamned cokes a day...? man that's a lot... personally I like coffee, but I take it with milk... never got used to the black coffee's tasteee...

but I'm more a water/pepsi guy... 1 pepsi at 2:00 - 2:15 daily... in a break from work just b4 eating...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on January 25, 2013, 11:49:03 pm
Yeah, a lot of people sing 5-hour energy's praises.
Oh, caffeine in soda has NEVER affected me at all. As a matter of fact, drinking a can of caffeinated soda usually makes me sleepy, not buzzed. If I drank enough soda to get buzzed, I'd probably be more concerned about being sick to my stomach. haha
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 25, 2013, 11:55:19 pm
Caffeine in the amount typically found in coffee (How my dad prepares it, at least), tea, and soda doesn't really affect me anymore. I have a high tolerance for it
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 26, 2013, 12:50:04 am
just for the record, there's actually less caffiene in one can of coke than in one cup of coffee. even less in tea. but like pent, over the years of drinking it it's likely i've built up a tolerance, the way i did to ibuprofen (i rarely take it anymore, but it takes 3-4 for it to have any effect).
oddly enough, i've become so used to the ingredients in coca-cola that the acids are actually soothing now. they have more of a calming effect on my stomach than riling it up. even stranger, drinking pepsi makes me violently ill.
don't judge me based off of how much soda i drink. only reason i started drinking it so much was to combat the depression, and now i'm so scared of going into withdrawl again that it's become a cycle. >>;
that, and it's just damn tasty. and it still perks me up a bit on occasion. ^^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 26, 2013, 12:55:25 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 26, 2013, 12:50:04 am
just for the record, there's actually less caffiene in one can of coke than in one cup of coffee. even less in tea. but like pent, over the years of drinking it it's likely i've built up a tolerance, the way i did to ibuprofen (i rarely take it anymore, but it takes 3-4 for it to have any effect).
oddly enough, i've become so used to the ingredients in coca-cola that the acids are actually soothing now. they have more of a calming effect on my stomach than riling it up. even stranger, drinking pepsi makes me violently ill.
don't judge me based off of how much soda i drink. only reason i started drinking it so much was to combat the depression, and now i'm so scared of going into withdrawl again that it's become a cycle. >>;
that, and it's just damn tasty. and it still perks me up a bit on occasion. ^^


no one's judging you... personally if there's still, or I am alone I drink almost 3 lt. of pepsi...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 26, 2013, 12:57:05 am
the median is about 3. there are days when i've only drank 1, and days when i drank 5. typically the number fluctuates based on what else there is to drink in the house. (for example, if there's juice around, i might drink that instead, especially if we're running low or i'm trying to conserve.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on January 26, 2013, 05:13:02 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 26, 2013, 12:50:04 am
oddly enough, i've become so used to the ingredients in coca-cola that the acids are actually soothing now. they have more of a calming effect on my stomach than riling it up. even stranger, drinking pepsi makes me violently ill.


I have the habit as well, to drink Coca-Cola to alleviate an upset stomach. Used to drink terrible amounts of it some... six-seven years ago, but way less these days. Maybe a couple of times a week a glass or so. Back in time, whenever I got too worried about the excessive cola use, I replaced it first with ridiculous amounts of tea per day to avoid the splitting headache, and then gradually decrease the tea itself. Nowadays I drink coffee (always black, without sugar) instead, and prefer it so: a mug of coffee makes me feel like for a moment like there's no hurry, nothing urgent, just me and my news and books.

Also, regarding Pepsi, I'm okay drinking it if I want a cola but there's no Coca-Cola around. However, I find its smell very unpleasant.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 26, 2013, 08:51:00 am
Since we seem to be on Coke vs. Pepsi now, I'll say I typically prefer Coke, but I will drink Pepsi on occasions
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 26, 2013, 12:05:28 pm
@pitkin: yay, another person who knows coke's healing properties! ^^
i've considered phasing out my coke drinking with tea, but i'd have to be drinking as many mugs a day as what they reccomend you drink water (so like 7-8 cups a day?), which isn't really feasable since idk if i'll be around a microwave that much in one day. (plus cream and sugar, so that's out. >>; )
i HAVE promised myself, however, that the day i get pregnant is the day i cut caffiene. i plan to have children someday, so it's a reasonable goal. i know reports of caffiene stunting growth have been disproven, but i want to put myself on a super-healthy super-diverse diet so my kids come out like little superheros. -w-

@coke vs pepsi: when i was a child, i think i may have drank pepsi at some point, but we've always been a coke-products family, so i just sort of naturally fell in with that. my sister enjoys pepsi products, but a couple summers ago is when i started drinking coke religiously, and ever since i can't drink pepsi without getting really sick.
other products from the pepsi line, however, are up for speculation. it really depends on what it is, though for some (such as root beer), i just prefer the coke version anyway due to taste (barq's, owned by coke, has a sharper taste than mug or a&w, which is what i want from a root beer vs a malt taste).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Cockleshell on January 26, 2013, 12:20:29 pm
I live off of monster energy drinks -w- Literally I have on every morning instead of a coffee. it's bad.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 26, 2013, 12:34:49 pm
since i can't stand coffee, coke replaces that. or occasionally tea, if i'm in the mood for it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 28, 2013, 08:51:57 am
I like Sprite and Minute Maid so... Coke

How about a new topic, like... the preference of OS types
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 28, 2013, 09:00:52 am
I've never been able to stand Pepsi, though neither of my parents have ever shown a strong opinion on sodas.  Except for mom's occasional purchase of Tab.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 28, 2013, 10:10:22 am
In my family, Coke products are typically what we went with as far as brand names, although sometimes we'd do Pepsi to be different. Most of the time, however, mom went with shitty store brand sodas "to save money"; even if they taste horrible >_>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2013, 01:23:26 pm
i'm not shitting you when i say pepsi LITERALLY MAKES ME SICK. .__.

anyway, other than that we usually just get the same sodas all the time: coke, barq's, canada dry, and sunkist.

@simon: i'd be up for debating that if we didn't already have a bunch of topics devoted to os preference in the computer section. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 28, 2013, 01:25:10 pm
okay well... got any Ideas on what to debate? :-\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2013, 01:29:14 pm
the coke/pepsi thing could be dragged on for a while longer....

or we could debate the merits of a 2-party system or some deep philosphical shit like that.

personally, i prefer the parlimentary system.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 28, 2013, 01:34:29 pm
Yeah your right. Lets stick to the soda thing for now, we'll go to government later.


Who here has ever heard how root beer, was originally made?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 28, 2013, 02:02:35 pm
You know, the one thing that really irritates me with soda is when there's something I like that gets discontinued. As an example, I loved Dr Pepper Red Fusion, but they discontinued it back in '03.

That stuff was amazing; it was like they took the "science liquid" (As Nej would put it) and mixed it with a fruit punch to make liquid magic. Dr Pepper Cherry has a taste that is similar, at the very least :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2013, 04:49:10 pm
damn, that sounds cool. :0

@simon: i'm probably wrong, but wasn't it made in a response to prohibition? a lot of sodas got their start that way, including birch beer, most root beers, and ginger ale.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 28, 2013, 05:01:07 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on January 28, 2013, 02:02:35 pm
You know, the one thing that really irritates me with soda is when there's something I like that gets discontinued. As an example, I loved Dr Pepper Red Fusion, but they discontinued it back in '03.

That stuff was amazing; it was like they took the "science liquid" (As Nej would put it) and mixed it with a fruit punch to make liquid magic. Dr Pepper Cherry has a taste that is similar, at the very least :\


yes, there are some times interesting flavors, but that's more common on the chips and fries area....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2013, 05:01:38 pm
what do you mean? :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 28, 2013, 05:27:23 pm
well, personally I love friies (here known as Sabritas, the lays brand), I even eat two bags every day at 2:30... so new flavors are always being developed... one example, the dreadful Flaming Hot Variety... too spiy for my taste, but there are other nice flavors that from time to time appear just to vanish months later... There was, for example, This brand of the Barcel Product called Quezas, with a perfect blend between cheese and Habanero chilli... but only lasted like, four months... Regarding to soda, The only change noticeable in my experience is when they turn the pepsi blue for the winter Holly days...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 28, 2013, 06:14:40 pm
They still have Pepsi Blue in Mexico? I always wanted to try that *w*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2013, 07:21:54 pm
IMPORT IT

@alfonse: ahhh, i thought that's what you meant. we don't get many special edition flavours of chips up here, or at least less so than soda. i wish i lived in closer proximity to ohio (or at least wish the reach was wider), since Faygo puts out more flavours than i'd know what to do with.
i also wish it was easier to get japanese snack foods, since the japanese have a love for anything special edition, and as a result have put out some very nummy special pocky flavours in the past. (god i wish i had hoarded the decoration cake chocolate banana when it was out. not only was it from my very first asian market but it was also TO DIE FOR.)


for when we get off of the debating of snack foods: what does everyone think of health care? could be the way things are handled, the accessibility of affordable health care, and where we draw the line on what doctors get to do.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 29, 2013, 09:59:30 am
*Hisses* Faaaaaygoooo.  We have it here, still tastes awful.

I have my fondness for 'third-party' sodas like Squirt, RC, Cheerwine, Ski, etc.  Not to say I don't like Coke or Pepsi (Coke), but both flavors of plain Cola lose out to RC.  I love Cherry and Vanilla Coke though.

As for chips; I've promised Bells Chesapeake Bay Crab chips, and my mom got me a bag of my favorite Buffalo chicken flavored ones.  Its all about looking when it comes to strange chip flavors I've found, they're all over the place.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 29, 2013, 10:21:45 am
Cape Cod potato chips(kettle cooked) and crunchy Cheetos
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 29, 2013, 11:01:00 am
@Stew: I like RC as well. Very underrated :3

As for unusual flavors of chips, I liked the Honey BBQ Cheetos they kept stocked in the hospital's vending machine. Now if only I could find where to obtain it elsewhere...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 29, 2013, 01:07:09 pm
Cape Cod is the best kind of chips.  Got a big bag beside me at the moment!  Rte. 11 is probably close; their Jalapenos are the best.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 29, 2013, 01:21:24 pm
the only flavour of chips i've ever seen that could be classified as "unusual" would be the Ketchup-flavoured Lay's i saw in Canada. :\
as for 3rd-party sodas, we got squirt a lot when i was a kid, but sunkist soon became the norm. :\

@stew: but faygo is awesommmmme. :<
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 29, 2013, 04:04:52 pm
Faygo is bad and you should feel bad.

I'm serious about the first part though, that shit is awful
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 29, 2013, 06:17:40 pm
I KICK THE WICKED ELIXER ON OCCASION AND AM NOT ASHAMED TO ADMIT THAT. (http://www.4chan.org/flash?file=snacks_loudenough.swf&title=Loud+Enough)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 29, 2013, 07:52:15 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on January 28, 2013, 06:14:40 pm
They still have Pepsi Blue in Mexico? I always wanted to try that *w*


sometimes in the hollidays... this year it was not...

in the moment, there are two flavors of ruffles extra crunch, both hot sauce and intense Jalapeño... like jalapeños more... and since I'm starting to hear the epicurean food eater conchita, I'm hungry again...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 09:16:32 am
now for government, I don't think the President knows what he is doing.
Yeah we got a little more health care, but at what cost?

I'm on many of their programs (i think), but I wouldn't mind not having them.
I've taken too much already...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 30, 2013, 11:07:18 am
I think he's actually doing a pretty good job, given how badly his war-obsessed predecessor broke everything.

However, 90% of the people in my hometown, my mom included, strongly disagree; which sucks, as I usually have to lie about my views and opinions to avoid the risk of being kicked out onto the streets or being forced to go to church to be "reprogrammed" >_>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 11:40:08 am
Obama had four years to get that straightened out, people can't keep blaming some one who hasn't had any influence during that time.

You can't blame the whole thing on Bush, while Obama has be funding all these needless programs, the Economy has gotten worse, and Gas has sky rocketed.

So far, he has done everything, except deal with the big issues.
( except for maybe healthcare)

When Bush left office the dept was under 1 trillion, now that Obama has been if office for four years, the dept is at 14 trillion, No mater how your look at it, that is a big jump.

Look, I honestly think that things aren't going to get any better with him in office, as my friend put it, " He is a politition, not a leader. Doing what the people want isn't always a good thing."

And for a totally unconventional reference, the end of Fable III

There is a huge difference between Reprogrammed and seeing it someone elses way.
You don't have to accept it but I'd prefer if that term wasn't used.
Although it really does depend on what Church you go to.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 30, 2013, 11:51:25 am
Well, it has to do with my mom's mindset; how she feels everyone needs to go to church so they will have the same exact views and opinions as her >_>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 11:57:08 am
That's... not okay, you should still be able to think with your own mind.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 30, 2013, 12:01:12 pm
Indeed. She's a bit of a psycho :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on January 30, 2013, 12:10:52 pm
Simonorged, check your debt numbers. Less than one trillion at the end of Bush era, fact-checkers will probably tear that apart.

Also, I'm sorry to say but the idea that a disastrous economic situation could be turned around in four years is more than optimistic. Delirious, I'd rather call it. Whether someone could have done better economically than Barack Obama, probably, but that's purely hypothetical. Blaming the current president for a thing which had been sown for a while before does not manifest a deep understanding of fiscal politics.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 12:33:48 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on January 30, 2013, 12:10:52 pm
Simonorged, check your debt numbers. Less than one trillion at the end of Bush era, fact-checkers will probably tear that apart.

Also, I'm sorry to say but the idea that a disastrous economic situation could be turned around in four years is more than optimistic. Delirious, I'd rather call it. Whether someone could have done better economically than Barack Obama, probably, but that's purely hypothetical. Blaming the current president for a thing which had been sown for a while before does not manifest a deep understanding of fiscal politics.


exactly... it's liked Our war against crime.... Some people want to press charges against Ex pres Felipe Calderón, yet The Crime interwined into our goverment structures in the decades of PRI-reigned government, then, with Fox, was more focused on social programs and in a minor aspect on unemployment...

bear in mind that your Political system is much more "Party-controlled" than ours... most of the needed reforms on the US are usualy stopped by republicans, But I think Obama's doing a moderate job...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 01:12:58 pm
Okay. I'll admit that the parties don't see eye to eye, and that my numbers are wrong.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 01:18:39 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 01:12:58 pm
Okay. I'll admit that the parties don't see eye to eye, and that my numbers are wrong.



don't be too hard on you... here it's worse, at least on the legislative powah
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 01:41:22 pm
i voted for obama. if it weren't for the fact that FDR (aka the greatest president ever) had sealed the office time limit to 2 terms, i'd vote for him again. to say that the programs he is funding are "unnessecary" is, frankly, one of the most offensive things i have ever heard. i realize this is the topic for that sort of thing, so i'm not going to let it get to me, but for the love of god you can't understand the need for those programs unless you actually need them. now, i'm unaware of your station in life or your financial situation. but as someone whose family is just trying to make ends meet, who can't afford healthcare, college, even other such basic things as electricity or heat, these programs are a godsend. my dad is currently applying for disability since an injury last year has rendered him unable to work in the field he's held for 30 years. this, from the man that considered anything less than constantly doing something to be a complete lazy waste of time. yes, he's looking into alternative fields, but in the meantime the governmental programs have really taken the edge off my parents so they don't have to sacrifice what little retirement funding they have.

as for obama vs bush, 4 years is NOT enough time to clean up 8 years of mess. when bush came into office, WE WERE IN THE BLACK. thanks to clinton, who, while he had his flaws, was another president i wish i could have voted for. (considering i wasn't even born yet when he took office, that possibility is lost on me.) bush, while he might be a nice guy, was a lousy president. i won't go into the details as that would spark yet another shitstorm of squabbling, but obama has to deal with all the problems bush left behind. the achilles heel of every president is the legacy his predecessor leaves behind. with a strong legacy comes a strong foundation. with a fractured nation comes a crumbling one.

chris rock made a great point about the whole situation.

"I mean, if I want to talk to him, I can call him. Dude, being the first black anything sucks. But the country was in shambles, and he's cleaning it up. If you properly clean a room, it gets dirtier before it gets cleaner. Ever come back to your hotel room before the maids are finished? My God! Republicans are complaining. Romney's complaining. But Romney's rich. He doesn't know shit about cleaning."

[spoiler]

thank your lucky stars bella's not here yet.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 01:46:19 pm
True enough, but do share with me what Bush did wrong. With detail and events.

I'm debating but I'm also learning.
I want to hear opinions and what you personally believe, but with facts as well.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 01:54:50 pm
you were a bush supporter, weren't you.

as i said, i'm trying to avoid a shitstorm. but if you insist, here's one for you. i look back at his handling of 9/11 with contempt. it was a fragile, tragic time for the country, but the best thing that could have been done would be to dust ourselves off and MOVE THE FUCK ON. not drag it out. not send people over into their territory without much clear goal in mind. not even eye an entire religion with such suspicion that groups of people would demonize anyone who even LOOKED like they were islamic, regardless of whether they were or not. (and of course ignore the fact that the people behind the attacks were radicals, not to be taken as the voice of the entire religion.) we didn't even catch the guy we were looking for untill bush was out of office, leaving 8 years of pointless, costly waste in our wake. the rest of the world also views us under his decisions as well. holding the office of president is a very important responsibility, not only because you lead your people, but you also represent them. if you're led by a radical idiot, people will think you're a radical idiot.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 30, 2013, 01:59:12 pm
I'm not defending Bush. I was too young to vote and there was so much shit going on(in my life)that I honestly didn't care.

And I don't like the governmental programs, they see like a trap to me.
But that doesn't mean that some of them aren't necessary.

It's never right to discriminate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 02:22:04 pm
yeah, the system DOES seem set up to screw us over. but at least it's something. ><;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 03:57:35 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 02:22:04 pm
yeah, the system DOES seem set up to screw us over. but at least it's something. ><;


be glad... your system only seems... ours is Montreal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Screwjob)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 03:59:09 pm
so many wrestling references....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 04:00:06 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 03:59:09 pm
so many wrestling references....


Me likey me rasslin...!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 04:00:59 pm
fair enough.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 04:08:24 pm
Besides... wrestling is Life Lite Lite (i.e. the smallest representation of the smallest representation of life)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 04:15:10 pm
i beg to differ on that.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 04:21:06 pm
Well, it's one my Ideas...

Here's an Idea: Life is a video-game, You decide to go through it using cheats or not
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 04:23:49 pm
i've been saying life is a video game for years, but not because of that.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 30, 2013, 04:25:03 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 04:23:49 pm
i've been saying life is a video game for years, but not because of that.

then because of what, hat lady?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 08:37:13 pm
because i find change everywhere and suddenly it feels like Bully in the way you would collect rubber bands and G&G cards.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on January 31, 2013, 04:07:32 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 30, 2013, 01:41:22 pm
i voted for obama. if it weren't for the fact that FDR (aka the greatest president ever) had sealed the office time limit to 2 terms, i'd vote for him again. 


I don't know if that's what you meant, but FDR himself did not propose or drive any amendment to the constitution that would've imposed the term limits. I seem to remember that at least Jefferson had spoken about the importance of not electing the same person to be the head-of-state several times to avoid the country turning into a monarchy/oligarchy. This memory is of course not a personal one, as I was very young still when Tommy and George were active. :p

Towards the end of the 19th century though, the full-second-termers started one after another to seek re-election without ever succeeding in it...

... before FDR, New Deal, and the end to prohibition. He was popular enough, and when the war started, he was re-elected twice more, lastly in 1944, in order have someone already experienced in the office. Unfortunately, his health was a complete disaster towards the end of the war and he died some three months into his fourth term. If I'm not mistaken, it was only after his death that people remembered to think about the term limits, except of course for his political opponents who had - I'd venture a guess - surely deeply wished for a term limit since the end of the 1930s. One could say that the constitutional amendment is a legacy of his (death), but not something he himself drove forward. Did you possibly mean this interpretation, Choco?

edit: I should perhaps also state that I may be mistaken about FDR's role. I just don't remember reading about any initiative.

While I believe FDR had many characteristics of truly great presidents, I'm equally happy about the term limit that took place after him. I appreciate deeply the notion that a democratic country gets a bit of change and fresh air every now and then.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 31, 2013, 12:57:09 pm
It is a direct result of Roosevelt's Presidency and a dislike of Harry Truman, though people didn't need to worry about him having more then one term. 

Personally, the two term limit is something I like, even if it did start as a simple custom to not exceed Washington's terms in the office.  Another personal opinion is that the Presidency is naturally predisposed to change more often then the houses of Congress do, which is where we really need term limits and have for more then two centuries.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on January 31, 2013, 01:03:39 pm
I think it should be changed to 3, under the cercomstances that the third term must be bought with 85% of Citizen votes and 80% of the popular vote.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 31, 2013, 05:25:37 pm
i like that system that simon proposed. if we had another term of clinton the country might be in better shape by now.

the limit in general is a good thing, though, since americans don't seem to like change very much. they claim they do, but considering we've fallen into a rough pattern of democrat -> republican -> democrat -> republican and we typically elect the president for 2 terms, it says to me that we as a country are uncomfortable with the notion of changing. that's why races get so heated when the old prez is kicked out for good. :\

@pit: yes, that's what i meant, thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on January 31, 2013, 06:11:56 pm
trust me on this one... having a refreshed congress doesn't mean better legislation...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 31, 2013, 10:44:20 pm
true dat. i still consider obama a better leader than bush, but he has no backbone. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on February 01, 2013, 01:00:11 am
It's funny if you try and place Romney and Obama on an objective political spectrum, their views are rather close relative to the whole scheme of things.
http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
Quote
This is a US election that defies logic and brings the nation closer towards a one-party state masquerading as a two-party state.


Incidentally, I seem to be aligned more with the likes of Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama.
http://politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-2.75&soc=-4.46
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 01, 2013, 02:59:29 am
I'm very happy you brought up the lovely political compass, SleepyD! :D

http://ostan-collections.net/forum/index.php/topic,1446.msg96221.html

Erm... I'm in the same quarter too.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on February 01, 2013, 04:58:37 am
I remember taking it back in high school with an awesome world history teacher. I'm still in the same quadrant, but have drifted to be more libertarian since then, it seems like. I remember being a lot closer to like, -2,-2 before.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 01, 2013, 06:43:39 am

Seems I've drifted further out left, and slightly upward.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 01, 2013, 11:02:46 am
I was thinking that whole compass thing looked familiar. I think I'll finally try it, since I must admit I ignored it the first time around (Since I was only just getting comfortable talking about my personal life on the internet)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 01, 2013, 12:18:08 pm
Nejin, you extremist. x) I've obviously grown old, having moved (a neglectible bit) towards the centre in both scales.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 01, 2013, 03:24:10 pm
mine's on the topic 'bout it
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 01, 2013, 07:05:46 pm
meeeeee
http://politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-6.75&soc=-4.87
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 06, 2013, 09:07:09 am
Tatoos or no tatoos
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 06, 2013, 11:23:30 am
It depends on the person, really. I don't want one, but some people I know that have them can pull them off well.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 06, 2013, 11:49:15 am
Not really into the whole idea of jamming 10 needles into my arm a hundred times per second.
Or the idea of having something permanently placed on my arm.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 06, 2013, 01:33:30 pm
i want 2. my sister has 2 and wants a few more, i think. my mother isn't into the idea but i've made up my mind. they're also designs that won't look horrible when i'm old, and they have a lot of personal significance.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 06, 2013, 03:00:45 pm
As long as you're sure that it's something you want on your body for the rest of your life and can be responsible about it (i.e., have it done by a licensed, professional artist in sanitary conditions, and are responsible with aftercare and the like) I see no problem with tattoos.

Personally, I doubt I'll ever have any tattoos done. There aren't many things I can think of that I'd want on my body for eternity, and I don't know if I could actually handle the discomfort / pain of the tattooing and healing process.

On the other hand, I can think of one subject I feel strongly enough about that I could carry it on me for the rest of my life. Some sort of New England-related tattoo might be nice, since it's my favorite place on earth and I'd like to be able to carry a piece of it with me everywhere I go. :D Something along these lines would be cool (http://fuckyeahnewhampshire.tumblr.com/post/30256537570/wolfinater-new-tattoo-home-town-pride), though I've also thought about some sort of NH/VT "yin and yang" design or something Boston related. IDK, it would take me so much time to think it through, find an artist I trust enough and saving up the money to have it done that it would probably take me months (if not years) between deciding to do it and actually having it done. >>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 06, 2013, 06:13:37 pm
if you're getting a tattoo done and you live in the area, i'm dragging you to tattoo fever. the guy not only knows my uncle (i think they grew up together or something), but he also has celebrity clientele who fly into boston to meet him (he drives down) to get work done. the waitlist is a bit long (gotta make an appointment a few months in advance), but given his prowess and notoriety, it's totally worth it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 06, 2013, 06:19:04 pm
personally, I'd like the kanji for "wind" tatooed on my wrist
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 06, 2013, 07:59:40 pm
be wary of getting foriegn characters tattooed. the artist can sometimes misspell them or screw them up in some other way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 07, 2013, 01:26:59 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 06, 2013, 07:59:40 pm
be wary of getting foriegn characters tattooed. the artist can sometimes misspell them or screw them up in some other way.


that I know
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 07, 2013, 04:20:58 am
yeah, sometimes it can be especially bad (ex: SVU episode where college fraternity members got tattoos in chinese: "They were going for 'Try or Die'." "Going for?" "Actually it reads 'Pie or Die'; the Tattoo Artist was having some fun.").

if i were you, i'd ask a native speaker (or at least someone fluent; yay internet!) to confirm the character is what you think it is. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 07, 2013, 11:05:12 am
Wind is simple enough. One of the first kanjis I learnt years ago. :)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 07, 2013, 12:05:56 pm
fair enough. but the rule comes into play with any foriegn language, or even anything difficult. i'm just lucky the two designs i've picked are basically impossible to fuck up.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 07, 2013, 04:16:46 pm
It'd indeed be a potentially terrible mistake to not be sure and to trust an unknown tattoo artist to not pull a fast one. x)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on February 07, 2013, 04:21:26 pm
I present this website:
http://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/

Think engrish, but reversed with Chinese Hanzi/Japanese Kanji characters. And tattooed on people.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 07, 2013, 04:26:47 pm
@pitkin: but it has some hilarious results. xD

though tbh if someone doesn't trust the tattoo artist they're getting work from, they're a damn idiot for going there in the first place. :\

@sleepy: thanks man. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on February 07, 2013, 04:28:23 pm
Yeah, there's a particular post that's amusing:
http://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/2006/08/gibberish-asian-font-mystery-solved.html

Apparently there's a english alphabet to chinese character conversion chart that's popular among tattoo parlors. So watch out there. haha

Also I found this post rather amusing:
http://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/2012/11/from-jk-to-tiangotlostgmail.html
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 07, 2013, 04:36:36 pm
That is the greatest blog since Pokeswaps *w*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 07, 2013, 04:39:16 pm
@Choco: A lot of time people won't think about things like that. ^^;

As for myself, I would never get a tattoo except from a certified prison with well-tested tools. *nods*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 07, 2013, 05:05:26 pm
let me see it if that ever happens. xD

@sleepy: this (http://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/2013/01/from-angel-r.html) is my favourite thus far. -w-


not that i don't enjoy this, but we should be arguing, as is one of the points of this thread. so guys, cloud computing: yay or nay?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 07, 2013, 05:13:04 pm
Re: Cloud computing: It depends. I don't mind cloud computing as a BACKUP option, as long as you have localized backups (i.e., an external HDD) as well. Also, I have stored some of my (text) documents online as a way of synching files between all of my computers - it's annoying to be working on a story on my iMac and need to access it from my phone / laptop, so I've been experimenting with online cloud storage as a way of synching files on all three.

I'd never save any work online without a backup on my computer(s) however.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 06, 2013, 06:13:37 pm
if you're getting a tattoo done and you live in the area, i'm dragging you to tattoo fever. the guy not only knows my uncle (i think they grew up together or something), but he also has celebrity clientele who fly into boston to meet him (he drives down) to get work done. the waitlist is a bit long (gotta make an appointment a few months in advance), but given his prowess and notoriety, it's totally worth it.


Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind. ^^

Quote from: SleepyD on February 07, 2013, 04:21:26 pm
I present this website:
http://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/

Think engrish, but reversed with Chinese Hanzi/Japanese Kanji characters. And tattooed on people.


That's one of my favorite humor(?) blogs, hahaha.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 07, 2013, 05:29:53 pm
It has some good uses, but it's not really for me. It's very useful for large businesses (Like how the hospital is starting to keep their medical records on a server located in the basement; with terminals setup in each patient room for doctors to bring everything up when it's needed), but I've yet to find a good reason for me to use it; especially when I don't really have that great of an internet connection. Plus, there are some things I'd rather keep somewhere that I know it's safe; like on the hard drive of a member of the fleet or a flash drive, versus on a cloud server in Carmen SanDiego's basement (Where in the world is the cloud server my files are on?)

As for the ability to transfer files between the members of the fleet, I can do it via LAN (The most common way; especially when I'm working with several files) or with DVD-Rs, flash drives, or floppy disks; depending on the capabilities of the member of the fleet in question (If I finally get my IBM PS/2, it'll be able to use the Yeti as a bridge to the newer members of the fleet)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on February 07, 2013, 07:05:37 pm
IM gonna stay here in this thread until I learn how to type and convey proper emotions through text. I AM a hot button topic...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 07, 2013, 07:19:52 pm
personally I have accounts on several cloud sites, Why...? because is cool... besides My MUGEN Proyects, my Translating Maquetting Comics works and even my Softwares are aviable on the netenet
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 07, 2013, 07:43:17 pm
I like cloud working to some degree, but I never found it to be as customizable and generally useful as I'd like it to be. I seldom use it nowadays.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 12:14:07 am
@alfonse: while it's your decision, using something on the basis of "it's cool" is never a good idea. accessing your files remotely, however, can have its benefits.

@pent: 2 carmen sandiego references in one post?? well played sir, well played. -w-

@cumulus: for me, cloud computing sounds like either a passing fad that will be dispelled in about 5 years when a giant server gets hacked and everyone loses their data, thus returning to the ground where Icarus proved humans belong, or the eventual shift in all computing that i dread the way changelings dread winter. if i end up as a relic because i refuse to join the trend, then so be it, since i find it extremely concerning just how public data is becoming these days. am i the only one who finds it distressing that the ads on sites and reccomended videos on youtube contain stuff i've searched for or watched before? i know, it's just a marketing ploy, but it creeps me out that one search for cloth pads leaves me with ads and videos about them for 4 days. >>;
i don't really have anything to hide. yes, there's porn and torrents on my computer. but i don't want them in the public eye because they're not FOR the public eye, they're my personal documents that i don't want on a publicly-accessed server. and i know, i know, i can put a password on it or make it "private", but is it REALLY private when it's in the same space as millions of other people? it's like the difference between putting stuff in a storage locker or keeping it on your own property. as far as i'm concerned, there's space in the garage, so i'll just put it in there. and when the garage is full, i'll build a shed.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 08, 2013, 12:16:30 am
Well, I use adblocker, so I have never even experienced any of the whole "personalized ads" shit...

Because I don't get any ads at all.

SPEAKING OF WHICH:
Adblockers, good or bad?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 12:18:37 am
is that really even a question? of course they're a good thing. i'm just too lazy to install one. (and sometimes the ads are cool stuff, i've found new online shops that way.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 08, 2013, 12:22:03 am
It's a double-edged sword. While it saves me from the annoying Flash-based ads on GameFAQs, at the same time part of me feels bad for the fact I'm effectively cheating Linkara, Nostalgia Critic, etc. out of money by not seeing the ads (If the ads don't play, they don't get money for it)

If I had a better connection, I might temporarily disable it when watching one of their shows, out of respect, but otherwise, adblockers for life
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 12:26:02 am
i'm sort of on the fence about advertising; i don't really notice banner ads much, but when it comes to ads on the sides that play videos or particularly annoying images (annoying gifs, flashing motifs, etc), that's when i get pissed. popups, however, popups need to die. doesn't help that most of them are for porn, which i don't care for unless it's anime. >>;

i can't completely hate it, even if i wanted to. when my comic goes up (fingers crossed for it to get up before AB!!!), i'm going to look into getting banner ads for the sides to obtain some revenue, in addition to opening a cafepress account. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 08, 2013, 12:27:36 am
Mmm. It's often a necessary evil :\

Which, I'd disable adblock on the site for your comic out of respect as well :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 12:28:07 am
thanks man. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Alex S on February 08, 2013, 12:29:22 am
I use a flashblocker instead of an adblocker.  It still allows text and image based ads, and pre/post video ads, but it keeps random flash from bogging down my computer.

If a site is using resource-hogging Flash ads that inconvenience the user/customer, they don't deserve the revenue from that ad.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 12:30:44 am
HOLY SHIT IT'S AN ALEX GET THE CAR

aw man, if i ever get off my butt enough to install a blocker, i'm going for that. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 08, 2013, 12:37:43 am
That seems like it would have been a good option. I stick with Adblock Plus for Firefox, due to familiarity (I know how to easily disable it when I need to, or set it up to not block ads on certain sites (examples: Hulu, TGWTG)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 08, 2013, 01:42:28 am
Adblock Plus for Firefox and chrome and flashblock for firefox... it's easy and fast to install
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 08, 2013, 02:22:59 am
Yeah, ABP is pretty much the king of the hill for me as well. That, and I'm a selfish bastard who doesn't turn it off for anything, so yeah.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 03:13:23 am
not even for my (future!) site...? ;^;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 08, 2013, 03:54:25 am
I'm like Nejin in this case, I never turn off the AdBlocker. I'd even say, if the only way for a site to stay alive is by putting ads on it... well, their business model is not something I support.

As for the cloud, it's very handy for easy data access, and a tiny personal cloud is my cup of tea. Wouldn't put my data on Google's cloud, mostly because the more I'd concentrate my internet activity to them, the bigger the damage will be if one day they get a massive leak. At the same time, I don't believe that the clouds are going to be a passing fad but a permanent addition to the storage.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 03:14:52 pm
in the event we start having personal clouds (provided we're not paying for full-blown servers, idk if i could afford that), i might be more likely to adopt the model. tbh though i could never completely devote myself to it. it'd be like having a pet cloud rather than living on one's back.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 08, 2013, 04:10:07 pm
Pet cloud is already as a mental image so cute that it must become the norm.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2013, 04:41:31 pm
isn't it? i just picture a little cloud with a collar and leash tied to a post next to the home PC. >w<
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 14, 2013, 12:23:11 am
i just read a dear abby letter where a woman's friend overheard her coworkers in the break room saying that if they won the lottery, the first thing they'd do is divorce. abby encouraged her readers to write in with their thoughts on marriage, so i did.

"Dear Abby,
I just read your column calling for readers to weigh in on their perspective on marriage.
While I might be young (21 in less than a month!), I shake my heads and wonder just what has got into people my age. Young though I may be, I've always had a bit of an 'old soul' and can't fathom how casually younger folks take relationships these days. Instead of actually giving dating a try, most people seem to be content with casual hookups and meetings. It only makes it worse that most of these people apply the same school of thought to marriage! Marriage is something that should be taken seriously, when two people love each other with a passion that cannot be matched by another. When there is a physical longing in ones' heart for a significant other, that is a sign of a good marriage. Marrying for money, power, or any other sort of gain (other than happiness) is another terrible reason for one to go into a partnership such as this. Just as important is the need to realize when to call it a day. While casual divorce is as common as casual marriage, if the love is real it should be saved at any cost, rather than being cast aside like a passing trend. However, holding out "for the kids" or "for the money" is almost as bad as marrying for those reasons in the first place. It saddens me how much some of the relationships I've seen have deteriorated, from ones of love, to ones of convenience, to ones of mutual financial obligation. that this person I'm thinking of has wasted so much time in a relationship running hot, cold, and stale hurts my heart.
Abby, I sincerely hope your readers agree with me, that marriage, whether between a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, is not something that should be taken as casually as most do. you can't summon love the way you order a pizza. forcing it doesn't work; wait for something real and it will pay off for a lifetime."

OSC, what are your thoughts on relationships and marriage? something casual or not to be taken lightly?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 14, 2013, 01:01:21 am
My ultimate dream is to marry a Japanese woman, doing it right (Assuming she is practitioner of Shinto) by marrying both the shinto traditions and a christian wedding, if possible... after at least a year of relationship
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 14, 2013, 01:16:05 am
i wouldn't mind marrying a japanese guy. provided he'd even have me, i'm kind of a badass and i won't take shit from anyone wanting me to "know my place" or whatever. xD
(my place is doing whatever the fuck i choose.)

that sort of answers my question. kind of.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 14, 2013, 01:35:39 am
To me, relationships are not to be taken lightly; especially not marriage. I mean, I take my friendship seriously; I trust my closest friends deeply, and couldn't bear the thought of losing any of them.

While I have no experience in relationships (Hell, I've never been on a date), I can tell you from observations from when my sister was dating that so many of the guys she dated just didn't take it seriously at all; the first two just didn't seem interested in her (The latter of which was an ass toward her but she was ignorant of this. Also, there was the whole hating my very existence simply because I liked things he hates, but that's beside the point), and the 3rd guy she dated seemed serious, as they were engaged and planning a wedding for when he got out of boot camp (Which he was following his dream of joining the military)...and then he broke up with her not too long after he finished his training; only coming back to see her just to get the stuff he had her store away. Then she got with the guy whom she's married to now, and honestly I think she's better off with him; as he's actually a good guy.

Since this somehow got onto the subject of "the kind of person we'd like to marry" while I was working on this post, I'll just say that a Japanese lady would be quite nice; especially if she was like a real-life version of Konata :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 14, 2013, 04:55:32 am
As for relationships and marriage/whatever union, I'd just say whatever floats their boat. It doesn't sadden me one bit if a person wants to hook up every night of the week just to get a free shower in the morning, as long as his or her hookups are like-minded and everything works in agreement. Same goes for any marriage for benefits or any other reason, it's none of my business to judge others' reasons for it, but if it's an arranged wedding, count me out of the supporters.

What saddens me about marriage:
1) While at the moment the kind of express weddings are allowed for a majority of population, at the same time a lot of people who've been with the same loved one for XX years are not allowed to call their union "marriage".
2) Some religious communities attempt to hijack of the concept of a marriage and to claim the sole right to define it.
3) Many couples stay together only for the children, in an unhealthy or already-failed relationship, which most probably won't end up nicely for anyone.
4) Many people are building a romantic ideal of marriage and then being surprised that not every day is a walk on a warm beach at the time of the sunset with a hurricane of pink cherry petals in the air to the extent of nearly suffocating the couple with pure romance. Sometimes the trees simply need to refill their petals. The first disagreement is not yet a casus belli, it's just normal.
5) It is still seen as some kind of "life goal" for the majority of population and especially women, while for a lot of people it's not important or even something they want - the stigmatisation of older singles.
6) A lot of the married couples in Europe have recently been buying and eating prepared lasagna meals made of not beef, as stated in the ingredients, but horse. This is gravely undermining the value of marriage, and the butcheries will require a stern talking-to from whoever the next pope will be.

That's for starters. Also, while I'm at it, correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like applying racial/national stereotypes of looks and behaviour on a person and marrying them for that is a form of objectification, as if considering them some kind of a fetishistic prize. I understand a Korean person wishing for a Korean spouse as it'd basically mean having no language barriers and coming from similar cultural background, which might reduce the risks of misunderstandings/conflicts/add your own(s), but for someone not Korean, not residing in Korea, not speaking Korean and probably not having even met Koreans, that kind of preference statement sounds like an idealised stereotype at best.

I'd also like to make it clear that I understand the defence that'll follow: "it's not the only qualification" and all that which goes along with it, but since it's the HBT, I take this opportunity to express my bemusement.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 14, 2013, 05:44:01 am
What's with the horse meat thingy, honestly
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 14, 2013, 07:52:33 am
I cannot help it. Judging by how much it's in the news here, it must be the Event of the Year. ^^ Don't underestimate the richness of horse meat publicity.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 14, 2013, 08:04:42 am
I've only heard people talk about people talking about it. Meager mentions, really. Perhaps nothing that vikings care about?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 14, 2013, 08:08:27 am
Probably, Nejin, very probably so. I'm very happy for you. x)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 14, 2013, 08:39:36 am
Romantic relationships are a matter of the heart and are not to be taken lightly, for me to be in one I'd be very jealous and protective. To see most of the relationships today, most of them end close to where they began. There is no commitment, no real love. If you really love someone, you should always be able to work through the problems(although hardly ever the abusive ones) Love is not a relative term, it has to be mutual. And to bring religion back into it I love how the bible describes true love.

(NAS, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7)
Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

HAPPY VALENTINES DAY
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 14, 2013, 09:23:41 am
Who is this valentine fellow you speak of? 'Tis All Singles' Day today, your calendar must be mistaken.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 14, 2013, 09:25:52 am
That too
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 14, 2013, 10:53:32 am
@Pit: You do raise a good point; if the couples are in agreement on what they do. I'm mostly against it being taken lightly when the two can't see eye-to-eye (Like, one wants a serious committed relationship, while the other just wants a one-night stand \ friend with benefits \ etc.)

Also, on the stereotypes thing, one of my former coworkers at the hospital always tried to give me advice on women using racial stereotypes; often saying (rough quote) "get yourself a Hispanic model; they're lower maintenance than the slutty, money-eating white ones, and will worship you as a god". How about no, creepy surgeon guy; I'll follow my heart and not the advice of some racist guy I only saw regularly because of needing to bring equipment to his department.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 14, 2013, 01:00:14 pm
wtf racist surgeon? sounds like an obsure video game character. .__.

my major grievance with most of the population is that people entering into marriage sometimes go into it with the fluffy, light outlook they approach relationships: everything is lovely, life is easy, and if i get bored i'll just dump him/her. colour me old fashioned, but i like the 40's idea of marriage, only without the gender stereotyping. -w-

@pit: all that comes to mind with horse meat is the WW1 documentary i have, which informed me that during the Siege of Gallipoli the British forces ran short on food and started eating their horses. .__________.;

@simon: for once, i agree with the bible. :0000
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 14, 2013, 04:56:36 pm
@ pit: As being the one starting this, I think I must say that, while I dream on marrying a Japanese woman, I will be throught in the way things do, learning language, customs, etc to make a happy family life, I'm not denying it may sound idealized, but is my desire.

the bible quote reminds me of the first crush I had... met her in elementary school, went to her house to watch Mazinger Z, and by the end of the school year she moved to the USA. found her back in college, courted her, at the same time an older friend of mine was courting her, yet she chose him... an since her Mom disapproved the relationship she blamed me when she was found out and never talked again... last I heard of her was that she became a lezzie from the friend that was her boyfriend...

about the horse meat... wasn't in the news that some found horse meat in packages of ready to serve beef meat?


Quote from: NejinOniwa on February 14, 2013, 09:23:41 am
Who is this valentine fellow you speak of? 'Tis All Singles' Day today, your calendar must be mistaken.


OK, nej, for christinanity, St. Valentin is the protector of lovers, so every year on the day assigned to him, loves and good friends celebrate their love/friendship...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 14, 2013, 05:42:06 pm
it's a joke, dude. nej celebrates all singles' day instead of romantic stuff.

@horse meat packages: eeww, that's creepy, and it makes me thankful we don't get the packaged stuff like that (outside of frozen dinners, and i don't eat any frozen dinners with beef).

no offense dude, but your mom sounds like a bit of a jerk in that context. good for the girl for finding happiness if nothing else, but you can't really "become" lesbian because orientation is not a conscious process. either you're lesbian or not, no one can "turn someone gay". :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 14, 2013, 06:22:48 pm
it was the girl's mom... not mine... and yes, she was a bit of a jerk, thought she genuinely wanted me as his son in law... and I meant that the friend that used to date her instead of me told me she wet to the other team... a waste if you ask me, but I've past long the time I care about her... so in that regard, yes I'm a jerk...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 14, 2013, 06:37:00 pm
no, you're not. she chose him, not you, that's not your fault. and if the mother is more concerned with gaining a son-in-law than her daughter's happiness, then that's one screwed up family. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 14, 2013, 07:28:09 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on February 14, 2013, 04:55:32 am
As for relationships and marriage/whatever union, I'd just say whatever floats their boat. It doesn't sadden me one bit if a person wants to hook up every night of the week just to get a free shower in the morning, as long as his or her hookups are like-minded and everything works in agreement. Same goes for any marriage for benefits or any other reason, it's none of my business to judge others' reasons for it, but if it's an arranged wedding, count me out of the supporters.

...


I'd quote the rest of your post, but I'd probably just end up with me agreeing with every one of your points. We're very much on the same page when it comes to relationships and marriage. 

Personally, I hate how marriage is still being hijacked by religion / religious people in this day and age. I also hate how (at least in the eyes of conservative types) it's seen as a more "moral" or "committed" kind of relationship, and somehow the domain of more righteous or virtuous people. I make no distinction between an unmarried couple in a mutually-loving and respectful relationship and a married couple who feel the same way - although I am NOT anti-marriage or think that it's a "outdated" custom, since there are very important privileges and legal protections (upwards of one-thousand) that are granted to married couples that "cohabitation" couples aren't offered, all because their relationship isn't "official" in the eyes of the law.

This is one reason I get upset when people suggest marriage equality is somehow a trivial issue, or that there are more pressing problems in the LBGTQA+ community and that marriage equality should take a backseat to those other problems. Violence, harassment, erasure, etc. of LGBTQA+ people IS a major issue and should be getting far more mainstream coverage than it is, but guess what, not being able to marry the person you love and be extended all those privileges - which are really more like civil RIGHTS -  is also a really fucking huge thing and should not be painted as a triviality or nicety. It is a necessity for many people.

In regards to liking or wanting to marry / date a person of a certain race or nationality ... well ... honestly, I wouldn't go around advertising the fact, since that's bound to be considered politically-incorrect (or even racist) by many people, and depending on the intentions of the person, it could very well be racist. (Pent's example, about the coworker who advised him to date Latina women because they're somehow "simpler" than white women is a good example.) That being said, I think it's important to differentiate between finding a group of people pretty / handsome / attractive / sexy, and seriously wanting or INTENDING to marry or date a person of a certain race or nationality. I don't think the first is necessarily wrong - at least as long as the person doesn't harass or creep on the group of their affection - while i think the second category, the people who seriously set out to date/marry a person of a certain race/nationality, is very wrong.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 14, 2013, 08:16:01 pm
Agreed. The way I see it, whither a couple does or doesn't get married is up to them; they shouldn't be forced to if they only want to go as far as living under the same roof and occasionally making love.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 14, 2013, 08:26:45 pm
@bella: hence why i was a bit "ehhhhh" about it. saying 'i want to marry an asian guy!" isn't akin to happiness and is kind of stereotyping, since i'm sure there are asshole japanese guys just like there are asshole american ones. and there are nice japanese guys just like there are nice american ones.

@pent: with that though, there should be laws regarding "common law marriages", affording some rights to a couple who has lived together ___ years (it's usually around 7 that they're considered "married"). :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 14, 2013, 11:54:31 pm
Definitely, yeah. Giving more rights to people who need them most is definitely a good thing
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 15, 2013, 03:06:17 am
it's stupid not to. so i can't get on my partner's health insurance despite me needing it and us having been together for 15 years?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 15, 2013, 04:13:50 am
Just to add about the horse meat (this time a bit more seriously):

I haven't got a slightest issues eating horse meat, and have been eating it for years. Horse is quite a divisive meat in the sense that even between two neighbouring countries like the UK and France, the former finds eating it repulsive even today while in the latter it's been eaten more or less always. The reasons are certainly historical, horse having either attained or not the position of being "a human's friend" or part of the workforce (or even a comrade in war). Purely personally, I don't see eating an animal X any worse than eating beef or pork. I wouldn't like to eat my or someone else's pet, of course.

Naturally, the biggest issue about the lasagna au cheval is that it was claimed to be 100% domestic beef in, while it turned out to be 100% Romanian horse. A major-scale fraud, which is suspected to be the doings of the Romanian mafia or something along those lines. I'm afraid that all the horse-based food found will be just categorically trashed, while the food is not risky for health. It's another mountain to add to the pile of wasted food, and the animals sacrificed obviously died without meaning if they don't even feed anyone. :(
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 15, 2013, 09:39:01 am
That's terrible ;_;

Also, horse meat sounds odd to me. Deer meat, however, I can understand a bit more (Plus, Bambi's mom makes good chili)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 15, 2013, 10:17:03 am
Deer meat is delicious, and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't at least try horse or mule.  Latter's supposed to be really tough though, which makes since considering how much muscle they are.

I feel like all my criminology courses are this thread the class.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 15, 2013, 10:23:36 am
As long as it's not sick or already dead, all is fair game. Except humans, I can't stand the idea.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 15, 2013, 12:03:04 pm
Sorry guys, as a former horse-crazy kid and person who worked with horses for 3+ years, I absolutely cannot imagine eating horse (outside of a life-or-death scenario, of course - but I wouldn't be averse to consuming human in such a situation, either). Same goes for dog, cat, most "domestic" birds, guinea pig, goat, rabbit in most (if not all) cases (so, "pet" animals in general), as well as highly-intelligent and self-aware creatures like monkeys, whale, elephant and dolphin. And shark too.

In the US at least, horses are considered pets, so people are about as repulsed by the thought of eating horse as they are eating a cat or dog. There's also the issue of the vast majority of US horses being treated with drugs that make their meat toxic to humans (http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/Tainted-US-horse-meat-puts-world-consumers-at-risk-welfare-body), and although it's illegal to slaughter horses for human consumption in the US, there is an ongoing problem in the US of people having their pet horses stolen, taken to auction and sold to killer buyers who ship the animals to Mexico to be slaughtered and sold as food product around the world. (Which, again, is potentially-dangerous due to the chemicals used on US horses - though honestly, if a person knowingly buys horse meat and gets sick eating it, I think it's well-deserved.)

Also, since deer meat was brought up: I actually believe that hunting is a VASTLY more ethical and humane way to obtain meat vs. buying meat obtained from a factory-farmed animal. After all, an animal born into the wild has had a good life and it's safe to assume that its death was quick, painless and that it didn't even see it coming, as opposed to factory-farmed animals, who are generally born and raised in abysmal settings and suffer quite a lot before their eventual slaughter. I've always found it very hypocritical of people to support the consumption of farm-raised animals but be against hunting on grounds of it somehow being inhumane.

That being said, I realize that hunting, buying wild meat, or meat obtained from small and humane farming operations is a luxury and not a feasible option for a majority of people.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 15, 2013, 05:28:41 pm
i think veal is inhumane. mind you, i got my education on the subject from south park. but keeping them tiny and not letting them roam just to keep them tender is pretty damn mean.

@horsemeat: with bells on this one here. my aunt has had horses since before i was born, and while i'm not against killing and eating horses (since that's some people's culture), i'm not for it either. as B mentioned here we give our animals all sorts of LOVELY DRUGS to help with health/deworming/life enhancement/etc. just as it would be dangerous to eat a guy who's on a cockail of medications, so too is it dangerous to eat an animal that is on one.
non-medically treated horses, though, would be safer, but i just can't support it since one of the local animal shelters has horses. (actually, they have cows, sheep, chickens, and goats too.)

@hunting: i greatly support this, but take it with a grain of salt. (kinda literally.) considering all the things wild animals get into, people need to be VERY CAREFUL since they DON'T get the lovely drugs to keep them safe. worms, diseases, and all sorts of other little nasties can be crawling on that fresh catch, so you have to take the proper precautions and keep up-to-date on what's huntable this season and what isn't.
hunting, though, helps keep the natural order in check. it is thanks to us that the tops of the wild food chain don't become overpopulated and stretch the available resources too thin. (for reference, see the videogame Tokyo Jungle.) with that, though, perhaps WE could benefit with a natural predator....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 15, 2013, 05:50:22 pm
Agreed on hunting

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 15, 2013, 05:28:41 pm
with that, though, perhaps WE could benefit with a natural predator....

This line thoroughly creeped me out; since knowing my luck, I'd be one of the first to be killed >_>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 15, 2013, 06:40:33 pm
no, your boss would be. he's let himself fall into complacency. besides, predators go where their best odds of getting food are, in this case densely populated countries and cities. you're fine. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 15, 2013, 07:05:46 pm
Indeed

Therefore, Bella is the safest one of all -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 15, 2013, 07:12:46 pm
currently, yes, but region-wise i'd say it's either her, stew, or nej, given they're in proximity of unpopulated woods.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 15, 2013, 08:21:04 pm
Fuckin' right.  We sent those bitch ass wolves and mountain lions packing once, we'll do it again.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 15, 2013, 08:30:27 pm
@ horse meat... well I'm not up for eating it, sincde half o my family comes from a rural environment, but if I'm forced by the circumstances then so be it...

@ hunting... I'm ok with it... as I am with bullfighting---


@choco: wut about moo?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 15, 2013, 10:21:14 pm
are you within a reasonable distance from an upopulated area? then you too can be safe from predators!

@stew: fuck yeah! >:3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 17, 2013, 09:33:47 am
Actually, since this is a hot button topic in Virginia but probably nowhere else, I'm a believer that the mountain lion has returned to the state despite repeated insistence from Fish & Game that they haven't.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 17, 2013, 09:45:13 am
Interesting. Not sure what to say, since I've never been in that state before
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 17, 2013, 09:59:39 am
Its big, it has a lot of rural mountainous terrain with low population density, and in my opinion is an area naturally given over to mysteries.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2013, 11:16:26 am
i always think of mountain lions/pumas living in warmer states, though. if anything, i'd say you guys would have a large wolf population, but you're the one who lives there. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 17, 2013, 11:23:23 am
I once saw a bobcat run across the street on my way home, when they were thinning out a heavily wooded area
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2013, 11:30:40 am
saw a fox run across the street in broad daylight once. it was going from forest to farmland, though, so maybe it was just going back to its den. :\
also saw a deer at the top of this street last year. it was fucking cool. :0000

(there's also more hawks around here than we know what to do with. you see them all the time on highways and such. i even saw one at the top of the street here once. xD )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 17, 2013, 11:57:04 am
FACTOID: I'm going hunting on Tuesday/Wednesday, with my grandfather. Also, yes. Hunting is in many ways vastly superior to mass-production of meat.

WILDLIFE GENERAL:
Well, you know...

I may have mentioned once or twice before that my mother is pretty much personally responsible for anything regarding the wolf politics in this country. Thanks to the idiot conservative faggots in the government, we also have a rather batshit stupid wolf policy, as evidenced by the number of times the EU commission has been yelling at us to stop fucking around.

So, yeah.
Personally I'm a big proponent of having a bigger, and most importantly healthier, wolf population in the country. The Swedish wolf populace was in the 60's reduced to 2 animals - one male and one female. You can guess where things went from there...

As in, every wolf in this country is more closely related to the others than two human siblings are.

Aside from the solitary heritage, this is also much due to the presence of what we call the "Shoot, Dig and Keep Quiet" zone. AKA Sapmi, which covers pretty much the north of sweden/norway/finland. There, most people will shoot any wolf on sight. Seeing as this zone covers the only land connection between Sweden and the rest of the world (aside from the Öresund bridge, but that point is moot due to the absence of wolves in Denmark and the fact that wolves don't use fucking bridges), it severely hampers any immigration of foreign wolves; which is why we have the inbred wolves we've got.

My mother has led a few efforts to transplant russian wolves into our grounds, but there's been little success so far.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2013, 12:05:30 pm
dem russians might not get along.

also, all that comes to mind here is American Dad. "INBRED DINNER WOLVES!!!"

gl man, wolves are beautiful animals and to shoot without good reason (read: mauling) is barbaric. we as a society should be beyond that level of thinking by now. >>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 17, 2013, 03:09:04 pm
REDACTED: Gramps just called and said no hunting. Nothing in his control, but still...
I'm a bit sad now. :/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2013, 04:33:07 pm
aw. no moose jerky? :[
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 18, 2013, 09:25:49 am
Might I point out I was sarcastic about the destruction of our larger predators being a good thing?

Because it isn't.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 11:27:09 am
of course not. there needs to be some natural cycle of birth and death, otherwise you'll end up with the Purple Loosestrife and Japanese Beetle infestations we've had here in years past. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 18, 2013, 11:33:51 am
DA CIRCLE OF LIFE~[/lion_king]

Now, if only we had some predator of wasps here
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 11:42:19 am
just introduce momo. she's great at killing those things. -w-


we need anothe hot-button issue to discuss....

TRUE OR FALSE: GLOBAL WARMING
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 18, 2013, 11:51:58 am
Accept for the car exhaust there is really not much more we can.
Farting cow burgers are NOT going to kill us!
We already recycle, all we really have to do is continue to do that, and a few other things and eventually the rain will handle the rest.
It doesn't help that I find the whole thing to be a farce.

Also, a little side note,
Only Google can take a misspelled exuast and tern it into asexual.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 18, 2013, 11:54:39 am
The EPA begs to differ...

I could talk a loooot on this subject, but I'm busy playing pokemans.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 18, 2013, 11:58:03 am
I'd say true. My parents will say it's just a bunch of hippie bullshit, and claim it's on a cycle and it'll start cooling down within the next 20 years, but the evidence is there to prove that something needs to be done :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 18, 2013, 12:11:18 pm
Hippie bullshit?

...REALLY.

That's...
So fucking ignorant I want to smash something.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 01:00:11 pm
you and me both, man, you and me both....

my only saving grace is that eventually the earth will reclaim itself in one way or another and the humans will pay the price =w=

as for GW, my dad is a big eco-nut so we've been recycling since i was probably in single digits. there's no question that we as a race are ruining this lovely planet on which we crawl like biting insects. dumping, nuclear power, oil dependency are all things that need to be either curbed or snuffed out. how this relates to global warming is that we seriously (as a nation) need to get our asses in gear about alternate energy sources. energy crisis? PUT UP A COUPLE FUCKING WINDMILLS IN THOSE GODDAMN MOUNTAINS INSTEAD OF MINING THEM TILL THEY FALL APART
HYDROELECTRIC PLANTS ALL ALONG THE MISSISSIPPI
COVER THE DESERT IN SOLAR PANELS AND INSTALL THEM ON EVERY. FUCKING. ROOF. IN THIS DAMN COUNTRY

but we're americans who are lazy and fear change so nothing is going to get done 'v'
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 18, 2013, 01:04:54 pm
No doubt we are messing it up, we were always meant to take care of the earth.
But I still find it hard to believe that the world will end from it.
It would most likely be some thing like Wall-E
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 01:00:11 pm
PUT UP A COUPLE FUCKING WINDMILLS IN THOSE GODDAMN MOUNTAINS INSTEAD OF MINING THEM TILL THEY FALL APART
HYDROELECTRIC PLANTS ALL ALONG THE MISSISSIPPI
COVER THE DESERT IN SOLAR PANELS AND INSTALL THEM ON EVERY. FUCKING. ROOF. IN THIS DAMN COUNTRY

And this helps how?
The plants wouldn't grow, the fish would most likely be affected, the only one of these I see plausible is putting them on the roofs, but then comes the question of who is going to pay for it,
And forget about the EPA, some of their decisions have either been down right silly, or more harmful.
Example: Do you know the difference between "Low Sulfuric Diesel" & "Ultra Low Sulfuric Diesel"?
Low Sulfuric Diesel doesn't stay in the air as long. The EPA switched it to Ultra Low Sulfuric Diesel
because they thought it would reduce emissions.

And the there was the situation just last year(or the year before) where a family was trying to build their dream home, but the EPA tried to say that it was on a wet land.
IT WAS PRACTICALLY A DESERT!!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 18, 2013, 01:11:27 pm
Nuclear power actually isn't that bad. As long as you take care of the waste, it's a pretty clean source of energy, compared to other alternatives.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 18, 2013, 01:12:55 pm
@Simon: I'd agree on that
(Also, would you mind not censoring other people's posts when you quote them. It really comes off as condescending :\)

I think what would make a good incentive for some people to change their ways would be if they actually saved money doing it. Considering my mom is completely insane over saving a penny by buying horrible store-brand hot dogs over a brand name, I'm sure she'd be willing to make a change if it means she saves money :\
(She is all for more fuel efficient vehicles, since it means she saves money on gas)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 18, 2013, 01:18:01 pm
Am I in trouble? 0_0
I won't edit others posts anymore.
There is more up there though, I wasn't done.

And about nuclear power, I see more problems with that then anything else.
All our enemies would have to do is hit one with an air strike, and our entire country would be screwed.
Plus the waste(if I'm correct) can't be effectively disposed of.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 18, 2013, 02:51:30 pm
Nah; you're not in trouble. I just don't like it when somebody censors what somebody else said in a quote; as it seems kind of rude

As for nuclear power, if its safely managed I'm for it
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 18, 2013, 03:40:51 pm
Sorry guys, but nuclear power is the most powerful "green" form of energy production we have right now. Yes, it would be awesome to have a widespread geothermal, wind, solar or tidal-energy power generation infrastructure, but we don't, and considering the limitations of those technologies it will be a long while before they become major players in the US energy market (you can replace "US" with China, Russia, India, basically any very large / populous nation with a lot of geographic and geological disparity.)

Yes, nuclear energy has a potential to be dangerous, and yes, it impacts the environment. But do you know what's one hell of a lot more dangerous than nuclear energy? Coal energy (http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/nuclear-powers-bad-rap-coal-is-far-more-deadly.html), which has damaged the environment on a much larger scale and kills up to one million people each year  (http://www.livescience.com/13876-nuclear-energy-dangers-coal.html). As well, fossil fuels maim and kill people and decimate the environment like nobody's business (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928053.600-fossil-fuels-are-far-deadlier-than-nuclear-power.html), and hydroelectric energy seems pretty safe and innocuous since it doesn't impact air quality directly (although the flooding it entails does release greenhouse gasses), but it has a whole host of negative impacts on the environment, including destruction of aquatic and land habitats, fish die-offs and generally altering waterways for the worse (http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/energy-and-you/affect/hydro.html). But not too many people fuss about fossil fuel or coal or hydro-energy because we've gotten so used to those energy sources that they no longer seem like a massive, imminent threat (as opposed to nuclear energy, the mere mention of which will send people into hand-clutching and heart palpitations).

I assume a lot of it is psychological - "nuclear" anything still carries with it connotations of bombs and mushroom clouds and fallout and radiation sickness, and also a sense of being inherently unstable and not fully able to be controlled by humans, when it should probably make people feel FUCK YEAH POWER OF THE SUN ON EARTH (not scientifically correct, but you know what I mean). Never mind the fact that there are only 4,068 deaths associated with nuclear energy, of which 4,056 are associated with Chernobyl and the rest consisting of industrial accidents (i.e., no other actual meltdown-related deaths). Can you imagine if we gave up on trains after 4,000 deaths? Automobiles? Aviation? I'd say we would still all be riding horses, but even horses have killed a fuck-ton more people than that.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 18, 2013, 03:52:43 pm
Indeed. As I stated, if it's safely managed, nuclear power is definitely a good thing and I'd fully support it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 18, 2013, 03:55:15 pm
P as in Power, P as in Propaganda. Also L as in Lobbyism, because that's again half the reason we're still so deeply entrenched in the quicksand of fossil fuel.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 04:52:50 pm
@simon: I will swear as much as I please and if you don't like it don't quote me.
Also, a dessert? They were building on ice cream?

@nuclear: I will never support it. Ever. You might claim it's clean "if it's well managed", but the point is it's not. We're humans. We're lazy and look to save time and money, and thus we will always take the easy way out via dumping. After which the land becomes unusable and the surrounding area is contaminated as well. Feel like arguing with me? Take into account the disposal of chemical waste, a similar process, and the incidents at rocky flats and love canal.
That ANYONE should die from exposure to a power source is reason enough to ban it. Coal and nuclear both suck. And saying that we should wait either due to lack of funds or because "it's too early" is nothing but stalling. Why not now? What's stopping us? Money? Laziness? Give me a solid reason why not, instead of the excuses we've been parading for at least 35 years.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 18, 2013, 05:56:54 pm
To be honest, I support technological progress even at the cost of human lives - especially if said technology hasn't killed very many people compared to competing technologies (a few thousand [mostly in one accident] vs. millions of people and counting, all over the world, every day) and provides far greater benefits. Also, if humans are really as incompetent as you're assuming, there would be far more nuclear accidents each year than there are in reality - the track record of nuclear power is a damned testament to human competency (or rather, the ability of competent people to be elected to positions of high responsibility), and if all power plants were run with as stringent of regulation, I would expect them to be far safer as well.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 04:52:50 pmThat ANYONE should die from exposure to a power source is reason enough to ban it.


I'm sincerely curious - do you believe that one death is too many in the pursuit of any emerging technology?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 18, 2013, 07:01:35 pm
Any progress has a price that needs to be paid. Marie Curie paid it for the discovery of radioactivity. Do you believe we should ban the use of X-ray, just because people have died of radiation? That we should ban airplanes, just because people die in crashes? Might as well ban hydroelectrics, since you can damn well be sure people have died from floods when they break and occasionally falling in. NOTHING IS SAFE - only more or less risky. And with great power comes great responsibility - which is one of the BIGGEST advantages of nuclear power. EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMOTHERS know the destructive power of nuclear energy, so very few people will actually skimp on protocols when dealing with it. We know the risks, and they are enormous if handled badly - but comparing careless handling of chemical waste to the usually super-stringent protocols of just about any nuclear waste disposal facility in the world, is like comparing unmanaged garbage dumps to battery recycling. A small amount of greater risks are far superior to a greater amount of smaller risks, because the latter will inevitably fail sometimes out of negligence - whereas the former will ensure vigilance by sheer virtue of its threat.

Until we have reliable fusion powerplants, nuclear fission is still high on my list of favored forms of energy.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 18, 2013, 09:37:41 pm
YES. Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to get at, only way more eloquent.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 19, 2013, 02:23:20 am
I'll allow it
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 19, 2013, 08:16:31 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 18, 2013, 04:52:50 pm
@simon: I will swear as much as I please and if you don't like it don't quote me.
Also, a dessert? They were building on ice cream?

I said I was sorry, and it won't happen again, and about dessert I get the two mixed up sometimes.
Quote from: Bella on February 18, 2013, 05:56:54 pm
I'm sincerely curious - do you believe that one death is too many in the pursuit of any emerging technology?

No, if it is meant to help people, then I guess it's okay.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 25, 2013, 09:16:01 am
New topic, gun control
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 25, 2013, 10:34:18 am
Didn't we already go over gun control earlier in the topic? Not to be rude, but I think we covered that already
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 25, 2013, 10:48:00 am
Sorry, I'm forgetful, How about a different topic then, any ideas?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 25, 2013, 11:13:33 am
Not really, no. Maybe someone else will come up with something
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 25, 2013, 12:47:43 pm
health care in the us vs health care in the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 25, 2013, 09:31:44 pm
That's not a hot topic, that's a One Hit KO...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 25, 2013, 09:44:07 pm
fine then. foreign policy in ones' country. go.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 25, 2013, 10:23:57 pm
Sweden is doing its usual hypocrisy on that.

HURR WE ARE NEUTRAL AND PROMOTE PEACE BUT WE ALSO SELL WEAPONS TO SAUDI BECAUSE DURR
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on February 26, 2013, 03:51:52 am
Our foreign policy brings freedom to all the peoples of the world, uniting the global population in a happy bliss that will eventually eliminate all social and economical issues.

Furthermore, internally our food crops are improving by each year, with the surplus being such that no one will have to suffer from famine in a few more years under the current administration. The best, however, in our wonderful government is that each and every citizen, whether he or she is sympathetic to the just causes of our Wise Leader, or a dangerous enemy of the state, he or she is free to express their views and think freely. I would like to propose a standing ovation to our government.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 26, 2013, 11:19:34 am
i can't tell if that's sarcastic or not. .__.;;;


american foreign policy disgusts me. the end.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 26, 2013, 01:30:15 pm
The ministry of truth? Sarcastic? Do you want to be arrested or something, K?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 26, 2013, 03:01:17 pm
hm
i don't know

what i do know is that i want my mauu value established. ;^;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 26, 2013, 03:18:18 pm
WHY DID THAT TOPIC GET BUMPED IN THE FIRST PLACE ;_;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 26, 2013, 04:02:32 pm
BECAUSE I WANTED TO KNOW
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on February 26, 2013, 06:35:41 pm
Foreign policy... well We're stil going on to the Estrada Doctrine (Basically "Don't mess with us and we don't mess with you, bitches")... But the current Government wishes to increase the weight of Mexico in international Matters (this comes from I think, the last two governments back...)  always in the guideline of non intervention (I.. voting no whenever the US want some resources from a small country in the UN and the such...)

An d I want to know my mau value too ;)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 27, 2013, 09:01:56 am
What is a mau value?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 27, 2013, 12:09:57 pm
NEJ YOU HAVE 3 PEOPLE ASKING THEIR MAUU VALUE

WILL YOU ANSWER OUR CRIES
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 27, 2013, 03:01:03 pm
THE MAUU DOES NOT EXIST
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 27, 2013, 04:41:45 pm
BUT WHY

WHY CAN THE MAUU NOT BE RECREATED
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 04, 2013, 09:25:15 am
Is there a definition or what? >:(
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 04, 2013, 12:35:25 pm
WHAT IS MAUU? SOME KIND OF BREAKFAST CEREAL OR WHAT?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 04, 2013, 12:38:02 pm
What is Mauu? I think what you meant to ask is...

WHAT IS LOVE?

It's so off-topic now, but I don't care xD
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 04, 2013, 01:05:23 pm
Mauu Value was an old inside joke that was born in Member Introduction about 2-3 years ago. it related to the concept of the Loliconomy, that OSC's currency is all in Lolis. Nej took over the role of banker and established how many Lolis everyone had. i wanted mine reevaluated because i noticed my Loliconomy Album on my Photobucket and thought it was time to restock.

think of it a little like a video game after that: you can have x amount of lolis, and you can either catch them in the wild (places like google, etc that won't bring up targeted results), get them from a ranch, domesticated (places like Gelbooru and such) or even grow your own (self-arts).


@foriegn policy: i realize we have it better than a lot of other countries out there, but i like the UK and Japan's foriegn policy better: we're involved in world politics, but we only get involved when called upon by other countries or during overwhelming circumstances (read: genocide). the US is too heavy-handed. it's like back in the late 1800's/early 1900's when UK imperialism was rampant, and they felt the need to "civilize" countries like India. (despite the fact that India has THE OLDEST culture in the world.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 04, 2013, 01:14:56 pm
well then, It seems I've already an account

I've nothing to say on the concept of foreign policy as I do not know enough about the topic at hand, anything I would have to say would probably be short sighted and most likely not make any sense.

But by all means do go on.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 04, 2013, 06:41:23 pm
Now that I think about it, I have SO many in-jokes that I've developed over the years and gradually abandoned. Just to name a few (most of which you won't begin to understand):

FiskN
Hamster extermination/Mjor
Referring to myself as "the king" (which has ironically started to spread to other members of the clan)
The Mauu, as referred to above
That awful period in my internet life during which I attached -ssu to every single fucking word for some reason
Randomly spanking people (YES, I USED TO DO THIS ALL THE TIME)
Every day is Suit-up day

AND MANY MORE. This doesn't really belong here, but we should probably make a thread for random in-jokes/weird shit like this people have been doing over the years.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 04, 2013, 06:48:27 pm
I THINK I REMEMBER WHEN YOU ADDED -SSU TO EVERYTHING? Or am I just remembering things incorrectly? Anyway you should probably bring that back, Nejinssu.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 04, 2013, 07:12:37 pm
Hell naw I ain't :D
I think that was back in my early days on OSC, but not when I was a newcomer - just before Kari arrived or just after, I think. I did one or two posts in the Intro thread with that shit on...look back to those if you're interested in a date.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 04, 2013, 07:42:15 pm
Shouldn't this be more on topicless?

New topic. Any ideas.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 04, 2013, 11:43:41 pm
@nej: *is starting a deceased injokes thread*



death penalty, y/n?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 05, 2013, 01:47:51 am
Depends on the monkey...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 05, 2013, 04:43:13 am
Killing them off is a waste of good prolonged suffering...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 05, 2013, 08:21:04 am
Absolutely for the death penalty.
But with certain conditions, they can only escape it once and to do so they have to feel remorse.
And if the person who committed the crime did it to protect some one, then they shouldn't be in jail, they should be under protection.

I remember watching something on tv where a woman's violently abusive 2nd husband was raping her daughter, and when she found out, she shot him. Shooting that scumbag shouldn't have been a crime. She spent the next few years in jail, and the death penalty wasn't even mentioned.
Maybe this isn't the best example.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 05, 2013, 09:41:44 am
It depends on the crime; if it's severe enough to call for it, I'd say yes
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 05, 2013, 09:57:56 am
I believe everyone should have a chance to change their past, but they have to want it.
Remorse is the main tool for that. Once you've accepted that what you did was wrong, you can move forward to change it.

I'd like to see people who have committed such crimes working in places that can help them grow to learn and help others. Some of the horrendous crimes that occur are ones that are like a trap and if your not careful, these crimes will be the death of you. One way or another they will kill you.
More times than not whats needed is consoling, and a not the death penalty.

But as I said before, If they're not willing to change, they're pretty much dead already.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 05, 2013, 11:47:22 am
must....resist....urge to correct spelling...


death penalty is qualified in some cases, not all. self-defense is a no. diress is a no. DP for kids is a no. child rape is a yes. (all rape should be a yes. >>; )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 05, 2013, 12:31:54 pm
Why give them the mercy of death when they can be kept in misery for so much longer?

Always hoping that maybe they will be given some small freedom, some small measure of light...

Hope is the greatest chain, and the sharpest double-edged sword ever made by man.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 05, 2013, 12:55:32 pm
because we can kill them with suffering too...? frankly, some of our killing methods are too humane. how about the revival of the gas chamber. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 06, 2013, 05:40:37 pm
Death Penalthy... According to the 1910 Constitution is a no... But the Civil Police corps are a No according to it too-...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 12:13:11 am
i'm a democrat, but i'm highly FOR the death penalty. some people just deserve to die. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 07, 2013, 01:24:29 am
As long as a single innocent person can be convicted and sentenced to death, I will be against the death penalty.

And even if the criminal justice system was 100% perfect and foolproof, I'd still be against the death penalty. As Nej said: I would rather the worse offenders rot away in jail than be killed, imprisonment is worse than death.

That being said, I'm also very against torture or any sort of inhumane treatment of prisoners. Being locked up and having to deal with other criminals should be punishment enough, it's sadistic to want to add on to that by actually imposing torture or other forms of undue punishment.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 03:08:31 am
convictions of innocents is getting harder and harder to do due to DNA and superiour forensics. i don't want to give a kiddie rapist the satisfaction of thinking about his victims, waking up in the morning to a new day, watching the world go by. i'd rather the filth be cleaned up. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 07, 2013, 08:14:49 am
And now I will affirm one of my favorite phrases:

Some people are only alive, because it's illegal to shoot them.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 11:13:47 am
amen to that, brother.

should we discuss another topic? i have one in mind. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 07, 2013, 11:16:37 am
ys.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2013, 11:17:57 am
I guess. What's the topic?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 11:26:48 am
the one we've been avoiding till now...

ABORTION
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 07, 2013, 11:48:55 am
I'm not for it.
You can all hate me for it but, it seems just a selfish a suicide.
It's like covering up a mistake you made.
And in the case of rape yeah it's a horrible thing that happened, shit happens.
but in my mind it's still not okay, one of my good friends was conceived from rape.
She is a valued contributor to society, that I wouldn't have if her mom had made that choice. It's a touchy subject that I was avoiding, because of all the trouble that would ensue, just remember to have a professional rebutle.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 12:02:48 pm
eh, i disagree. for all the usual reasons, "it's the woman's choice", "the fetus isn't a person till birth", etc etc.  we have the right to do with our bodies what we want, tattoo, pierce, scar, shape, dye, augment, even let ourselves go. and abortion is just another facet of that. it's like saying having your tubes tied is wrong. :\
and i wouldn't call it "covering up a mistake", considering like you said, shit happens. and we deal with it however we can or want to.

being forced into it when you want to keep it is wrong. but just getting one? of course not, it's fine.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 07, 2013, 12:18:56 pm
Not being a woman/catholic/conservative in any way I don't have much qualms about abortion anywhere. If they want one, they can have one, in most cases. Of course they'd be advised not to if the pregnancy is too far gone for their safety to be guaranteed, but like with everything else, circumstances are the alpha and omega of all choices.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2013, 12:30:22 pm
Pro-choice here. If she does or does not want to go through with the pregnancy, then that should be enough; she shouldn't be forced to do something she doesn't want to do. After all, I wouldn't want someone forcing me to go through with anything if I didn't want to; especially something like a pregnancy.

In fact, it truly pisses me off how many times I hear about people attempting to pass laws to ban abortions.  Again, it should be her choice; not the choice of some creepy politician who doesn't seem to understand that women are people too and not "baby-making machines"
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 07, 2013, 01:05:47 pm
So... what your saying is no one should have to deal with the consequences of their actions?
In the case of rape, kill the bastard that did it.
People will do what they want to do, if it wasn't legal it would still happen.
And yeah, the guy doesn't get to make that choice, but they also don't get the choice to keep the kid either. And maybe I'd rather bare the child.

I'm honestly waiting for a technology that is like abortion, but the baby lives.
In a cloning type chamber until the point where its suppost to be able to breath on its own.
Then, no more abortion, and more adoption.

Women aren't baby making machines, but babies aren't things either.
They're not a disease, not a tumor.

If a fetus isn't a person until birth? Then why is killing a pregnant woman a double murder.
I believe the exact opposite, that is just a way for people to justify it.

If you have to justify anything, you usually shouldn't do it.

After five more points, lets change the topic.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2013, 02:09:11 pm
*you're

Also, what if she decides to get an abortion because of her current situation being a very negative environment for a child? Like, she's barely making enough money to support herself, let alone a baby? Or, what if there's a high risk of medical complications that could result in her dying?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 07, 2013, 02:19:39 pm
I can't justify it for any reason.
That is why I want that technology to exists.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 07, 2013, 04:10:18 pm
Everyone here already knows my stance on abortion, but in case you're exceptionally oblivious, I'll drop a clue: it rhymes with "Mro-Joice Yunder Pall Nurcumstances". Likewise, everyone here already knows my stance on anti-choice people (To avoid issuing threats of death or severe violence, all I will disclose is that it is not a kind one. In fact, it is about as far from kind as you can possibly imagine). That's all I have to say here. :D

Now then, I'll be taking my leave before this thread self-destructs or undergoes a controlled demolition by admins. ALLONS-Y!

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 07:16:18 pm
bella why are you whipping that barbie into space

DID YOU NOT WANT THAT BARBIE FOR CHRISTMAS
I THOUGHT YOU WOULD LIKE IT


on topic: immigration in your particular country. go.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 07, 2013, 08:38:47 pm
I'm all for immigration to the US, legal or not, as long as the immigrating people are here to better their lives and/or find job opportunities that they wouldn't otherwise have. Folks who come here for the specific purposes of crime (be it petty or major, like terrorism) should obviously be locked up or deported (depending on the offense), but I think it's wrong that anybody would be imprisoned simply for crossing a boarder, or kicked out because they don't have the proper documentation. Doubly so if they've already established themselves here.

Obviously, I think the US immigration policy is seriously screwed up - though I could say the same for many nations. It's a very idealistic and unrealistic stance, but I wish immigration was seen not as a luxury but a human right - everyone should be entitled to move and live their lives as they see fit.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2013, 08:59:50 pm
Indeed. Personally I'm the kind of person who prefers to go through the legal channels to do something like that, but sometimes it's hard to do that :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 07, 2013, 10:57:30 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2013, 03:08:31 am
convictions of innocents is getting harder and harder to do due to DNA and superiour forensics. i don't want to give a kiddie rapist the satisfaction of thinking about his victims, waking up in the morning to a new day, watching the world go by. i'd rather the filth be cleaned up. >>;


yes but bear in mind some times the criminals can make it appear than an innocent did commit the crime...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 08, 2013, 08:09:43 am
Topic: immigration in your particular country
As long as people contribute, their welcome to stay. That is my stance.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 08, 2013, 11:16:41 am
In London, common cultural backgrounds for immigration are Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, China, India, Latvia, Lithuania and so on.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 08, 2013, 03:45:28 pm
The US Need a Good Migration Laws... or at least lie dead and let us do what we set to do...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 08, 2013, 06:51:23 pm
Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 08, 2013, 11:16:41 am
In London, common cultural backgrounds for immigration are Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, China, India, Latvia, Lithuania and so on.

yes, but what do YOU think of immigration?

@immigration: instead of complaining about how people are immigrating here, why not ask, "why don't they want to stay in their own country?" perhaps we should spend the time, money, and effort meddling where we're not wanted, and use it to help better other countries. :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 08, 2013, 07:36:04 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 08, 2013, 06:51:23 pm
Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 08, 2013, 11:16:41 am
In London, common cultural backgrounds for immigration are Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, China, India, Latvia, Lithuania and so on.

yes, but what do YOU think of immigration?

@immigration: instead of complaining about how people are immigrating here, why not ask, "why don't they want to stay in their own country?" perhaps we should spend the time, money, and effort meddling where we're not wanted, and use it to help better other countries. :3


fucknally someone gets it...! yet in our case, we aim to recover our stolen goods...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 08, 2013, 07:49:01 pm
what, texas? tbh texas should be considered a cultural middle ground, like minnesota, washington, michigan, and maine to the canadians.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 08, 2013, 08:02:24 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 08, 2013, 07:49:01 pm
what, texas? tbh texas should be considered a cultural middle ground, like minnesota, washington, michigan, and maine to the canadians.

no, not only texas... Everything that was stolen t'a us... And maybe Minnesota, Washington, Michigan and Maine too...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 09, 2013, 12:03:45 am
If by stolen you mean 'gave up to stop getting beaten up in an actually fairly negotiated treaty'.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 09, 2013, 12:28:49 am
have we found our next hot button topic?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 09, 2013, 04:48:23 am
God.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 09, 2013, 04:49:52 am
I think you made a typo. Here, let me fix that for you:

Imaginary sky fairies.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 09, 2013, 04:56:02 am
lol

I don't believe in the tale of the imaginary legendary sky fairy, after all, it IS only theories and not truths.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 09, 2013, 10:42:10 am
Speak for yourself, I happen to believe in god, specificaly my god. I hope you don't plan on bashing religion. Otherwise this becomes a bullying thread, and not  a debate one.

Because then I could start saying that everything you believe in is a lie that changes every three or four years.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 09, 2013, 11:49:51 am
Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 09, 2013, 04:48:23 am
God.

Discuss.


Agnostic here. I believe there may be a god / "higher power" / creator (though not in the Judeo-Christian sense of the word), but I also believe there may not be. Above all I think it is absolutely impossible for human beings to KNOW whether or not it exists, so there really isn't much of a point in thinking about it (at least for me personally). Practically-speaking, I'm borderline atheist (in that I rarely contemplate a god or act as though one exists), though "apatheist" might be a better term for my behavior. I do enjoy going to religious services on occasion (generally I feel most comfortable at liberal and open churches, though I can't deny that Catholic Mass can be quite beautiful as well), but it's not so much a matter of spirituality as it is enjoying seeing the togetherness of people and appreciating the music and stories and all of that. 

This is a bit tangential to the topic of god - since you can be religious without professing to believe in a god / gods - but I should still mention it, since many people assume agnostics are "atheists lite", so to speak, and that all atheists are anti-religion (neither of which are necessarily true). I don't mind religion if it's approached sensibly. If people can find a way to have a religion while being respectful of people with different faiths, or no faiths at all, and use their religion as a means of self-betterment and inspiration, I think it has the potential to be positive. The same goes for atheists and agnostics. I dislike pushy and rude atheists as much as I dislike pushy/rude religious folk, though I probably agree with more of their arguments, I still think it's in bad taste to shove your belief systems down the gullets of other people unprovoked. Just as every living person has a right to bodily autonomy, EVERYONE has a right to their own beliefs as long as they don't trespass on the beliefs / bodily autonomy of other people.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 09, 2013, 11:59:13 am
You call it a god, I call it an imaginary sky fairy. You call it a lie, I call it a convenient abstraction of truth as we can observe it.

Besides, the core of it hasn't really changed all that much since the Standard Model was introduced. Yes, its scope has been expanded, and we've learned a good amount of new things since. There's a lot of things going on out in the fringe of scientific knowledge, mainly because we can't prove any of it - its heart remains mostly the same however, until something really groundbreaking comes along. Nothing of that magnitude has really been discovered in the last half-century or so, and so we've just polished what we know and what we've learned to more accurate models.

The difference is that a scientist knows that his "beliefs" are incorrect, inaccurate and at best only a reasonable model of reality. Our human minds are ultimately incapable of understanding reality as a whole - thus, we must divide it into parts of common likenesses and laws of common rulebooks. We "change our lies" because we know they're incorrect, and we fully expect them to change. A scientist accepts the fact that he can never be sure about anything, and strives to understand as much as he can without the limitation of being forced to adhere to a set of rules that cannot be broken because "they're the rules".

The laws of nature ARE laws because we do not observe them being broken - as long as proof holds, the law remains. For example there was the huge hubbub around the Neutrino experiment a while back that seemed to indicate the neutrinos had exceeded the speed of light - and for a while the scientific community was ready to accept the possibility that one of our most fundamental truths could be wrong. It turned out to be a false alarm, however, and the law remains.


Meanwhile, religion consists (from what I can see) of generations of humans trying to understand the world in a far less accurate way than we can now, documenting their ideas and then having those ideas twisted around and used by their latter generations as propaganda, tools of power and various excuses all around, threatening anyone who dares challenge these old "ideas" with death, excommunication, blah blah blah - just because changing those ideas and laws would change and threaten their power.

Science isn't just a set of laws and ideas, it's a mindset. If science worked like religion there'd be people all around refusing to acknowledge various scientific proof and new laws of nature just because it threatened their business model.

Religion refuses to accept that the world is changing, and insists that ideas written down by some random guy thousands of years ago are absolute truth without a single shred of proof. Science is accepting that the world always changes, and that our vision of truth must always change with it.

Accepting religion means believing you understand the world, and then struggling to explain away the parts you don't. Accepting science means accepting that you do not understand the world, and striving to learn as much of its parts as you can.

Religion preserves. Science changes.
But the state of nature is chaos, and in the end, chaos always wins.

You're simply delaying the inevitable with your pointless struggle. Why prolong your suffering?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 09, 2013, 12:21:58 pm
I'm agnostic at the moment.

This is mostly due to the fact that Christianity has been rather soured for me due to people like my mom; who are bigots that use their religion as justification for their hatefulness. Granted, that's not a problem with the religion, but more a problem with the person in question, but given how I live in a small Texas town where it seems that bigots like that are the majority, it's a bit hard for me to follow it without being surrounded by people I can't stand.

As for whither God exists or not, all I'll say is that it all boils down to what you believe in; everybody has a different way to view the world.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 09, 2013, 12:45:54 pm
Much better.
@pent: they're misusing christianity, much like the crusaders. Sorry to hear that.

@Nej: In regards to your last line, I could say the same thing.

Even if you don't believe in god, you have to admit it all started somewhere. Science says that matter is never created or destroid, and we believe that our god always existed. Hence our expanation of how all began.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 09, 2013, 02:02:46 pm
@Pent: I do agree with Simon here, anyone who uses their religion to justify hatred is very misguided. I suspect even if they WEREN'T Christian they would be filled with hate and find SOME reason to justify it - after all, there's absolutely no shortage of racists, sexists, homophobes and otherwise hateful / judgmental people even among the atheist, agnostic and skeptic communities, and these are the people who claim to be the most enlightened. They aren't basing their hatred on the (supposed) teachings of a holy book - it's something embedded within their character. I suspect hateful people of faith are afflicted by the same personality defect. 

@Genpop: Not gonna lie, my favorite "spiritual" concepts (if you can call them that) are probably pantheism (to put it very simply, the belief that the universe / nature = god, though not in the omnipotent, omniscient creator-being sense of the term), as well as the "lattice universe" hypothesis - the (at-this-point-still-thoroughtly-untested) concept that the universe is a computer simulation of some sort. I can't say I subscribe to either belief, though I find them both comforting thoughts.

Also, I really dislike the idea that religious people can't be rational or scientifically-minded, and that atheists, agnostics and skeptics are naturally more rational / scientifically-minded due to their disbelief. Unless a person wants to drag the creation myths or morals dictated by their religion into their work (for instance, "creation scientists"), I see capability for rational thought and belief / disbelief in god/gods/religion as two entirely different things. Science is the study of the material universe; religion is speculation about the soul (if you choose to believe in one) and what lies BEYOND the material universe. I don't know why it's so damned hard for people to separate these concepts and not drag religion into science, and vice-versa. -__-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 09, 2013, 03:44:13 pm
The bible is built on theories, so is Christianity. You can't see the lord, because that's part of the test. Faith. If you believe God exists (I don't), then (apparently) you will live a long life or go to heaven.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 10, 2013, 01:53:37 am
a god and a goddess came together to create all. such is the way of life, a dual nature. night and day, woman and man, ying and yang. together she formed the earth with her fertility and he helped it grow with his seed. they watch over, love and protect their creation and those who inhabit it.
i believe in the god and the goddess, though i primarily worship the goddess. the incarnations of the god and the goddess i worship represent the moon and the ocean, a constant balance, change, and flow, reflecting the path of life. just as time passes, so must the tide roll in, and the tide roll out, and there will be good times and bad times. but constantly the goddess watches over us, smiling down as protector with her pale face. and the god shelters us and tends to us, giving us his strength and his force of will to carry on, even as the tide of fortune rolls out.

of course i believe in science too. but that fluffy spiritual crap i just wrote DOES mean a lot to me. i've worshipped Luna since i was a small child, and i always (ALWAYS) feel safer with her near.
i'm not a good practicing pagan, but i believe in acceptance and the old ways. just as we have been persecuted for who and what we are, so shall we not persecute others for being who and what they are.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 10, 2013, 08:59:08 am
That's the thing. RELIGION is the systematic organization of spiritual beliefs into an arbitrary system that ends up doing nothing but ruining shit.

I don't have too much against spiritual beliefs themselves, per se. It's just the frantic struggle of humans trying to establish order and preserve that state in the most chaotic world of all - the collective imaginations of the human race - and the subsequent attempts to make that into a damn business model that so vehemently disgusts me.

On a related note, the pope resigned fairly recently.
First time that's happened in a number of centuries. I guess it's hard to blame him - his employer isn't exactly the most outgoing in the world...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 10, 2013, 10:54:59 am
What is religion?


Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 10, 2013, 11:08:22 am
I fucking hate it when you use that code
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 10, 2013, 12:33:05 pm
Don't give a fuck... EDIT: I'm kidding, I know it's annoying, I just wanted an excuse to use the marquee sorry :(

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 10, 2013, 12:38:32 pm
It's really annoying >_<
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 10, 2013, 01:31:25 pm
*sigh* Fine.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 10, 2013, 06:28:59 pm
Quote from: stewartsage on March 09, 2013, 12:03:45 am
If by stolen you mean 'gave up to stop getting beaten up in an actually fairly negotiated treaty'.


yup stolen, at gunpoint, but we're more civilized than the gringos, so we decided to recolonize it...

About Religion:

@ Bella: I mentioned before, I am a welcoming guy to every person, yet to the poor Mormon I can't not see without feeling sadness... since I felt their guideline to be the wrong one...

@ Nej: well said Sir... I've been following a certain Foundation on faceboob, which only purpose is to turn the world into atheist morons, bashing the System of religion... I know and agree with the end of the atheists (A better world and humanity) but disagree with their methods... removing faith will weaken humanity... Haven't we learned anything from Superman...? In Krypton were all Atheist Super scientists, and they got their planet blown up... and regarding your book, I do believe you to be wrong in saying religion is a set of rules and Ideas... but A guideline to live your life... Personally I KNOW God Created The CREATION (This Universe and the thousands of "Fictitious") Universes We are privileged to Observe throught several means, Knowing well the christian Holy trinity to be True (My bet is that the Holy Spirit is a "She", like kari mentioned...)

@ Penti: As Bella Mentioned, There are several nut jobs in every Religion in the world...

@ Simon: Amen to that, Brother...

@Bella 2: Tis' True, thou speak with thy wisdom of a SAGE...

@Leaf: indeed it is, yet we all follow the paths God intended for each and every one of us....

@Kari: you're the best pagan you can be, as long as you don't deviate from your teachings to an unnatural path for them, I'm sure the Goddess will welcome you in the afterlife...

@Leaf2:
It is reaaaaaaly annoying.....


@ Penti2: indeed it is

@Nej2: try heading the biggest religion of the world while finding some of the guides are nut jobs and having your best man let the people know things reserved only for your eyes... Add to that having almost 90 years old with some diseases impedingyou to perform the best you can... the resignation was expected...

and Don't mess with the Employer, OK?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 10, 2013, 11:45:45 pm
Quote from: alfonso_rd_30 on March 10, 2013, 06:28:59 pm
@ Penti: As Bella Mentioned, There are several nut jobs in every Religion in the world...


Agreed. The same even applies to groups outside of religion; like with popular TV series or other such things
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 11, 2013, 01:51:05 am
@scrolling marquee: i've used it once or twice, but i agree, it's REALLY overused.

@religion: i hate hateful people. i'm gunshy around mainstream religions. i'm somewhat racist against white people. that's just who i am. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 11, 2013, 08:58:06 am
That makes me think of a new topic.
Racism and Sexism: Same or reversed
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 11, 2013, 01:19:14 pm
There is no excuse for rape. If the person doesn't want to have sex you CAN NOT force them to no matter if they advertised.
Although yeah I do get what your saying, Why dress provocatively if you don't want to get attention or get complimented on it.

That's really not what I meant though, what I mean is that the people who were discriminated against by race or gender now form an opinion about everyone from the opposite demographic.
As if stereo typing. Which then becomes a vicious cycle of "they're the ones at fault here", and it never ends, not all while people are racist and not all men are chauvinist pigs. And dagnabbit just because someone is Irish doesn't mean he/she is a drunk! Not to mention, if you judge things from a religious stand point, things get more messed up.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on March 11, 2013, 01:48:04 pm
After the death penalty, abortion and religion being graciously ignored, I cannot help but snapping at this:

Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 11, 2013, 12:57:39 pm
I hate it when a woman acts surprised when they get touch/raped/violated out on the street, and you see them wearing some slutty outfit. I mean, if you look like a street walker dressed in scraggy clothing, then don't expect to have a deep conversation with any guy >_<

This is one of the things that causes sexism.


And I hate more than anything else anyone trying to blame a woman for being a victim of sexual harrassment. Even if I pranced around nude, my body would still be mine, and certainly not yours to touch or to comment on. Who are you to decide what other people can wear? Are trousers still fine, or should we maybe just stick to ankle-length, single-fibre skirts and dresses? Maybe it'd be safer if we never left home in the first place, unless covered from the top of the head to the toes, just to not provoke the poor, innocent, pure-hearted, good-willing men who just want to look after our precious chastity?

Or maybe we should impose similar rules elsewhere? Maybe, if a man is not sporting a beard, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets whipped for looking indecent? Tattoos and piercings are terrifyingly immoral too. Should impose some kind of public humiliation for those. Not to mention sandals: those erotic toes just call for a gang rape, don't they?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 11, 2013, 02:05:27 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on March 11, 2013, 01:48:04 pm
After the death penalty, abortion and religion being graciously ignored, I cannot help but snapping at this:

Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 11, 2013, 12:57:39 pm
I hate it when a woman acts surprised when they get touch/raped/violated out on the street, and you see them wearing some slutty outfit. I mean, if you look like a street walker dressed in scraggy clothing, then don't expect to have a deep conversation with any guy >_<

This is one of the things that causes sexism.


And I hate more than anything else anyone trying to blame a woman for being a victim of sexual harrassment. Even if I pranced around nude, my body would still be mine, and certainly not yours to touch or to comment on. Who are you to decide what other people can wear? Are trousers still fine, or should we maybe just stick to ankle-length, single-fibre skirts and dresses? Maybe it'd be safer if we never left home in the first place, unless covered from the top of the head to the toes, just to not provoke the poor, innocent, pure-hearted, good-willing men who just want to look after our precious chastity?

Or maybe we should impose similar rules elsewhere? Maybe, if a man is not sporting a beard, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets whipped for looking indecent? Tattoos and piercings are terrifyingly immoral too. Should impose some kind of public humiliation for those. Not to mention sandals: those erotic toes just call for a gang rape, don't they?


Give him hell, Pitkin, people who think this way deserve it. ><

But yeah, to reiterate: PEOPLE DRESSING A "CERTAIN WAY*" DO NOT DESERVE TO BE HARASSED. THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO BE RAPED. THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE WHISTLED AT OR CATCALLED OR HIT ON AGAINST THEIR WILL. NOBODY deserves any form of sexual harassment. And if you think they do, well, I have news for you: You're a pretty screwed up person, or at least have a rather ignorant and sexist mindset. And that's inexcusable. Educate yourself.

*I put "a certain way" in quotation marks because, guess fuckin' what, there are MANY forms of dress considered indecent. In the US, miniskirts and belly-shirts might be considered "slutty" by sexism aficionados, but among cultures with more strict "modesty" mandates, a long-sleeved sweater and jeans might be considered risque. And in other cultures, near-total or total nudity might be considered absolutely fine. As for "sexy" attire - did you know that some people are turned on by uniforms? Nun's habits? Every style of dress you can imagine is arousing for SOMEBODY, which makes it entirely arbitrary and pointless to try to call some items of clothing "sexy" or "slutty" and others modest.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 11, 2013, 02:17:21 pm
As for my feelings, I honestly hate sexism and racism alike. With the former, I get pissed off at the frequent "make me a sandwich" jokes (And other such jokes) that float around the internet, and as Pit brought up, I fucking hate the "rape is the fault of the victim" mindset; it greatly pisses me off that some assholes believe it as true, and I have absolutely no respect for them because of it.

As for the latter, it's a touchy subject for me; especially given how I learned a few years back that my mom's grandfather was part of the KKK, which I think might explain why her side of the family is so hateful toward anything that falls outside of what they consider the norm. My mindset seems to be more in-line with my dad's side of the family; who are more laid-back and accepting
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 11, 2013, 02:19:49 pm
Quote from: Bella on March 11, 2013, 02:05:27 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on March 11, 2013, 01:48:04 pm
After the death penalty, abortion and religion being graciously ignored, I cannot help but snapping at this:

Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 11, 2013, 12:57:39 pm
I hate it when a woman acts surprised when they get touch/raped/violated out on the street, and you see them wearing some slutty outfit. I mean, if you look like a street walker dressed in scraggy clothing, then don't expect to have a deep conversation with any guy >_<

This is one of the things that causes sexism.


And I hate more than anything else anyone trying to blame a woman for being a victim of sexual harrassment. Even if I pranced around nude, my body would still be mine, and certainly not yours to touch or to comment on. Who are you to decide what other people can wear? Are trousers still fine, or should we maybe just stick to ankle-length, single-fibre skirts and dresses? Maybe it'd be safer if we never left home in the first place, unless covered from the top of the head to the toes, just to not provoke the poor, innocent, pure-hearted, good-willing men who just want to look after our precious chastity?

Or maybe we should impose similar rules elsewhere? Maybe, if a man is not sporting a beard, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets whipped for looking indecent? Tattoos and piercings are terrifyingly immoral too. Should impose some kind of public humiliation for those. Not to mention sandals: those erotic toes just call for a gang rape, don't they?


Give him hell, Pitkin, people who think this way deserve it. ><

But yeah, to reiterate: PEOPLE DRESSING A "CERTAIN WAY*" DO NOT DESERVE TO BE HARASSED. THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO BE RAPED. THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE WHISTLED AT OR CATCALLED OR HIT ON AGAINST THEIR WILL. NOBODY deserves any form of sexual harassment. And if you think they do, well, I have news for you: You're a pretty screwed up person, or at least have a rather ignorant and sexist mindset. And that's inexcusable. Educate yourself.

*I put "a certain way" in quotation marks because, guess fuckin' what, there are MANY forms of dress considered indecent. In the US, miniskirts and belly-shirts might be considered "slutty" by sexism aficionados, but among cultures with more strict "modesty" mandates, a long-sleeved sweater and jeans might be considered risque. And in other cultures, near-total or total nudity might be considered absolutely fine. As for "sexy" attire - did you know that some people are turned on by uniforms? Nun's habits? Every style of dress you can imagine is arousing for SOMEBODY, which makes it entirely arbitrary and pointless to try to call some items of clothing "sexy" or "slutty" and others modest.


damn straight, girl! >:[


@pent: holy shit, your great-grandpa was KKK!? goddamn man, get the fuck out of there. and yeah, that says a hell of a lot.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 11, 2013, 02:39:29 pm
Okay... looks like I'm missed the explosion this time.

Harassment is never okay, Neither is rape.
Glad it was addressed

@pitkin: Your more than welcome to share what you believe on the first three topics you mentioned above.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 11, 2013, 03:02:46 pm
It gets extremely tiring to keep hearing these sexist tropes about what women should or shouldn't do/say/wear/think/go to avoid sexual harassment. Especially when a frighteningly large number of people - of ALL genders, backgrounds, beliefs or non-beliefs and intelligence levels, no less - buy into these ideas. There's a reason why many victims of sexual harassment and/or assault avoid reporting the crimes committed against them to police, seeking medical treatment or psychiatric counseling - they're afraid that THEY will be blamed for the crime, or considered somehow deserving of harassment or assault because of something they wore, said or did. Mind you, this can happen with victims of other crimes (for instance, a person being blamed for suffering a mugging because they were dressed nicely or "look rich"), but it's particularly insulting and dehumanizing to have authority figures suggest the victims of sexual assault are more responsible for the attacks committed against them than the perpetrators are.

I could go on, but i have to run now. I'll just leave this here for now.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 11, 2013, 03:24:59 pm
clothing is no excuse to attack. how someone is acting is no excuse to attack. in the case of being impaired (drunk, high, tired, knocked out, sleeping, etc), it comes down to personal responsibility not to act. in this case, would you take the wallet of someone who was drunk? steal their car? what about take them home and ransack their house? if none of these are acceptable, having sex with them in that state isn't either. it's akin to taking something precious of theirs, their free will.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 11, 2013, 03:27:57 pm
Rape
If they have no say, it's not okay.
if they can't say no, you better go.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 11, 2013, 03:38:57 pm
KKK related moment Bells heard from me; my friends and I are at this awesome antique mall checking everything out for the first time.  All kinds of sweet swag to be had.  Then I get to this one booth and realize..... it is literally full of KKK memorabilia, including a blank membership certificate for the Maryland KKK and a selection of chapter patches.

There was a brief awkward moment because KKK patches look a lot like old Shriner patches and the like.

I'll avoid contributing victimology statistics to the discussion...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 11, 2013, 03:54:12 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on March 11, 2013, 01:48:04 pm

Or maybe we should impose similar rules elsewhere? Maybe, if a man is not sporting a beard, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets whipped for looking indecent?
Huzzah! I am safe!

Sexism is an unfortunate byproduct of men being in the driving seat of civilization for way too long. Like all other examples of arhaic, nonsensical constructs in our society, it is a vile taint that must be purged.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 11, 2013, 05:32:48 pm
nice to hear that from you. ^^

@stew: that sounds exceptionally awkward. kinda wish you had gotten a picture. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 11, 2013, 05:42:29 pm
It's very simple logic, really. Sexist men tend to be the same men who are ultimately harboring the poison known as stupidity in their minds. We must cleanse this scum from the planet.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on March 11, 2013, 05:50:07 pm
*added Nejin and his beard to favourites*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 11, 2013, 06:06:24 pm
Damn-it, Here I was trying to argue that Men have changed enough that they shouldn't be considered sexist and what happens, A minor comes along a proves my point wrong.

What the fuck man, just what the fuck.
All this fucking proved is that the ladies still have to worry.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 11, 2013, 08:31:10 pm
Quote from: stewartsage on March 11, 2013, 03:38:57 pm
KKK related moment Bells heard from me; my friends and I are at this awesome antique mall checking everything out for the first time.  All kinds of sweet swag to be had.  Then I get to this one booth and realize..... it is literally full of KKK memorabilia, including a blank membership certificate for the Maryland KKK and a selection of chapter patches.

There was a brief awkward moment because KKK patches look a lot like old Shriner patches and the like.

I'll avoid contributing victimology statistics to the discussion...


Was it the same antique store that we went to? 'Cause I remember seeing some KKK stuff in a booth there, too. :/

Quote from: NejinOniwa on March 11, 2013, 03:54:12 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on March 11, 2013, 01:48:04 pm

Or maybe we should impose similar rules elsewhere? Maybe, if a man is not sporting a beard, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets whipped for looking indecent?
Huzzah! I am safe!

Sexism is an unfortunate byproduct of men being in the driving seat of civilization for way too long. Like all other examples of arhaic, nonsensical constructs in our society, it is a vile taint that must be purged.


Hear hear, Nej.

Quote from: Simonorged on March 11, 2013, 06:06:24 pm
Damn-it, Here I was trying to argue that Men have changed enough that they shouldn't be considered sexist and what happens, A minor comes along a proves my point wrong.

What the fuck man, just what the fuck.
All this fucking proved is that the ladies still have to worry.


I feel like I'm missing something here, because I have no idea what you mean or who you're talking to. Can you clarify please?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 11, 2013, 09:15:12 pm
I think he's talking about Leaf, to be honest
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 12, 2013, 02:50:50 am
Ok, Sexism... Well, I'm an ugly Guy.... One whom knows well most girls are out his league, not because of that I'll force myself upon any Girl I want, And Women have the right to dress the way they feel more comfortable as we Men do... rape is a bad thing, and as Nej said, the extermination of rapist is a must...

Racism is bad too, every one is different and deserves respect...

BTW, Tomorrow starts the Election of the New Pope, and a Website launched itself against the Bishop Cardinal of Mexico City...
[Edit: the ones electing the new Pope are the Cardinals, not Bishops]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 12, 2013, 07:57:46 am
@Bella:I was talking to leaf.

Welp, looks like we still have some sexism to eradicate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 12, 2013, 11:59:58 am
@alfonso: wait, people are petitioning AGAINST the bishop of mexico city?

well that's just mean. :[


@simon, pit, nej: i ended up mentioning this topic in the car while we were dropping people off last night. it sparked a debate between Alex and Artemis on gender politics, equality, feminism and why it can be a bad thing, and the disposable male.
it was really quite interesting. i'm going to encourage alex to use my sister's account to weigh in on it. i agree with a lot of his points, such as how there is a sort of reverse-discrimination going on in society, since if you say you're Proud to be Gay, Proud to be Black or Proud to be a Woman, people will applaud you, but if you are Proud to be Straight, Proud to be White or Proud to be a Man, people cast a disapproving eye on you for propagating such nonsense.

with this in mind, it seems i am not a feminist, but a humanist.


@simon: i'm frustrated with the kid too. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 12, 2013, 12:07:49 pm
That would be interesting to hear. I do have one question, though

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 12, 2013, 11:59:58 am
... and the disposable male.


What does that mean, anyway? It's honestly making me think of my rather deep-seated fear of being rendered obsolete .___.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 12, 2013, 01:04:14 pm
Thankyou Choco, that is what I was trying to get at.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 12, 2013, 04:29:01 pm
Before this turns into a huge debate/argument, I just wanna say that I was only expressing my opinion. I mean you may think I'm underaged, but think about it; if you are going to the supermarket or something you don't have to go out in a night club top or something, just wear a sweater or something ya know, save all that stuff for later. I mean you look even nicer like that. Not trying to be a sexist or anything... also please stop calling me a minor or kid :(
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on March 12, 2013, 05:53:05 pm
LeaflameSD, I'm afraid this post is going to be fairly hot-blooded.

First, I most certainly won't call you a kid: age is not an excuse for such utterly misogynistic attitudes. Let me know when you get punched in the face the next time so I can make an in-depth analysis on how you were asking for it and how everyone should just humiliate you, instead of offering support.

Second, let's think about it, as you so sagely suggested:
1) You're policing how other people should dress. I'm telling you it's none of your business.
2) You're calling it a woman's fault if she gets raped or harrassed. I call it the harrasser's/rapist's fault. Even if we all wore niqabs, there'd still be rapes. Rapes and harrassment end, when the rapists and harrassers stop raping and harrassing.
3) You're saying "don't expect to have an intelligent conversation while wearing X". This might come as a surprise to you, but when I walk in the street minding my business, I'm actually not looking for a conversation or interaction with strangers. I'm walking in the street, minding my business. If I want to have a conversation, I converse. If I want to have someone's opinion on how I look, I ask for it. "How do I look?"
4) You're saying women should wear a sweater, because "it also looks nicer". This might be the second big surprise of the night, but like I already hinted towards it: I don't dress to please strangers in the street. I don't give the first letter of a fuck if you or anyone else likes my choice of sweater or not. My clothes, my body, my business. Not yours. I don't want to hear any random guy's opinion on me, whether it's supposedly positive or negative. I don't go around in the fantastic, medieval city centre, giving clothing advice and judgment. "Nice glasses, man, but you might want to work that ass."
5) "You're not trying to be a sexist." That's nice, so it came without trying. Good work, mate.

Finally, while you're perfectly allowed to express such an enlightened, modern and respectful opinion, I will be a terrible spoilsport and call it victim-blaming of rather poor quality. I give it an eight out of ten in bigotry, but zero in novelty and style. Next one, please.

Hugs and kisses.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 12, 2013, 06:08:24 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 12, 2013, 11:59:58 amwith this in mind, it seems i am not a feminist, but a humanist.


Do you believe that people of all sexes and genders (and gender identities + presentations) deserve equal rights? If so, then yes, you ARE a feminist. Whether or not you choose to use that term for yourself.

It's a common tactic by anti-equality folk to depict feminism as a movement that espouses the superiority of women over men (and people of other genders). This is NOT an accurate representation of feminism** - but a strawman tactic devised to strip feminists of credibility and public legitimacy. Any feminist worth their salt will tell you that they are gender-egalitarian and that they stand behind feminism because they seek to elevate women (both cisgender and trans*) to a position of equality with men. In feminism, there is no superiority, no inferiority. Just equality.

As well, feminists stand for choice in all areas of life - a woman's choice to shave her body or go au natural, to wear makeup or not, to present a femme or butch identity, to date or not date, to remain a virgin until marriage or have sex outside of matrimony. Or to never have sex at all. And anything in-between. I would NOT trust the word of any "feminist" who claims that there are certain life-trajectories that are more inherently feminist than others - as long as she is a proponent of equality, a married, high school-educated stay-at-home mom with five kids can be just as good a feminist as an unmarried career woman with a couple BA's and a PhD to her name. As well, men, agender and genderqueer people can be just as good feminists as women.

**I should note here that some so-called adherents of "feminism" do believe in female superiority. Namely, this happens within the radical feminist or "radfem" community. Bear in mind that this is a tiny, tiny minority within the feminist community, and the vast majority of real feminists treat radfems with varying levels of disgust. Radfems are often EXTREMELY anti-trans* (going as far to claim that transwomen are "just men" who want to creep on women / infiltrate female spaces, and that transmen are "just women" who want to side with the patriarchy by presenting as male), anti-sex - in particular, any forms of sex that involve penises, viewing it as a form of assault, more or less - and often have strong gender-separatist and biological-essentialist leanings. In practice, they're startlingly close to conservatives on their views on trans* rights, gender and biology. And they should no be treated as feminists.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 12, 2013, 06:12:14 pm
Wow, I almost sniped someone's post.

@Pitkin: Ah, I see. Maybe my opinion is kind of invalid and big-headed. I'm sorry....

Righty-oh, new... topic?:
Animal testing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 12, 2013, 06:16:04 pm
Berlin, 1935. Two germans are watching a pair of SS officers chasing a group of jews through the street.
"Why do zey keep asking for trouble like zat?" Says one of the germans. The other nods in agreement. "If zey just stopped controlling all ze banks and agreed to wear ze yellow star like zey should, zey would have no SS officers chasing them. Why do zey keep resisting when zey are ze ones at fault?" The first german sighs and shakes his head as the two walk away from the scene. "Zey know zey are Jews. Zey shouldn't expect anything but trouble when they act like zat."


In case you didn't get it, Leaf, this is the same reasoning you're trying to apply, except with women everywhere in the world instead of Jews in Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 12, 2013, 06:19:26 pm
I get it Nejin, I get it...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 12, 2013, 07:03:23 pm
Oh, and one other thing I forgot to add! Kari brought up the point of anti-male sexism (or reverse-sexism) in modern society. While it may seem as though there are ways males have been negatively impacted by women and feminism, in fact almost all of this seeming anti-male sexism is a direct result of prejudice against women.

For instance, so-called "men's rights advocates" point out how men face harassment for wearing women's clothing or acting in a traditionally-feminine manner, while women can often get away with dressing in men's clothing or acting in a traditionally-masculine manner. At first, it seems as though men are being unjustly targeted for failing to conform to masculine gender roles. However, the truth is, society considers masculine things to be the Gold Standard for Being A Human Being - that is to say, male is the default state of humanity, while female is a deviation, an aberration, an inferior state. Women get away with "acting like a guy" because that's considered an ADMIRABLE thing to do - men who choose to "act like a girl" are ridiculed and harassed because they choose to "lower" themselves to the status of women. If feminism succeeds in equalizing the genders, there will be no more prejudice against men who choose to engage in traditionally-feminine activities or take up female gender presentations.

Or to use another example - people point out the fact that there are dozens of birth control options for women, while men only get two choices, condoms and sterilization. Again, this is NOT "female privilege". This is because the medical establishment and society have decided that women should be the ones to carry the burden of birth control in relationships - that men should be spared any inconvenience or discomfort associated with contraception. Male privilege at work again.

In short -
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 12, 2013, 07:08:08 pm
It's fairly obvious if you just look at the english language, too. MALE, fe-MALE. MAN, wo-MAN. Et cetera.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 12, 2013, 07:52:22 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on March 12, 2013, 07:08:08 pm
It's fairly obvious if you just look at the english language, too. MALE, fe-MALE. MAN, wo-MAN. Et cetera.


Oh, it's much worse than this. Etymologically-speaking, "Man" does NOT refer to the male of the species - it simply means "Human being". While "Woman" doesn't translate to female of the species - it's literal origin is "Wife of a man (human being)".

So you have men = Human Beings and women = Wives of said humans. Gross.

All being said, if I had my language 'druthers, the non-gendered pronoun of choice would simply be "man" - in the original sense of the term, as human being.

From what I can gather, "male" and "female" are more true to the subject they represent - male denoting, well, a male person, animal or thing, and female denoting a female person, animal or thing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 12, 2013, 08:43:58 pm
seriously, alex would have a field day in this topic. i think i'll tell him to make an account.

@bella: i still prefer the term "humanist", if only because i don't just want rights for the FEMales, but for everyone. not all men are misogynistic bastards. take a look at nej and calm down.

@leaf: you can't say something that offends so many people and expect us all to drop it just because you changed the topic. it's way too heated now. though i hope we can come back to the topic you suggested, it's an interesting one.

let me give you a little clarification. in terms of Rape, Rape is not about sex, sexual appeal, or provocative dress/behaviour. RAPE IS ABOUT POWER. your garden-variety rapist has an inferiourity complex and feels the need to rape to stroke his ego. those that don't fit this mold either view women as a "lesser" being and think they can take whenever they feel like it, or either ignores or misinterprets signals, meaning he thinks the woman is saying yes, or doesn't care. NONE of these reasons are the fault of the woman, regardless of what she is wearing. dressing how you like doesn't mean you are 'asking for it'. NO ONE asks to be brutalized. the only reason they pick women is either because they're straight, they're trying to prove they're straight (whether or not they actually are isn't the issue), or because they find women to be easy targets. (one thing an actual rapist has said is that he looked for someone with long hair, since they're easy to grab and subdue. whether this applies to males is well is speculation.)

in terms of Sexual Harassment, most Harassment actually occurs in workplaces, schools, or other environments in which the woman is clothed in a more "appropriate" manner. once again, this is NOT the woman's fault, more a product of misogyny and the idea of male superiourity. "Women don't belong in the workplace, they belong in the kitchen!" "She obviously doesn't belong here like i do, who cares if i grope her?" "Women don't know how to do anything work related. they should go back to their sewing circles and baking cookies."
also, Men can be Harassed as well. either by other Men or by Women, but they can be Harassed as well.

you might think that's your opinion, and you might not ask us to call your age into question, but the fact of the matter is that your "opinion" of it all is subject to change and given how young you are, like it or not, you don't have enough world experience to form an opinion on things like that. 13 is too young to be having sex or thinking about such heavy topics. and i certianly don't think anyone is prepared to take your words seriously on such a dark topic.

as some food for thought, try thinking about what it'd be like for you to be raped. or someone you care about to be raped. not sure if you'd have the same stance on all of it then.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 12, 2013, 10:59:53 pm
On the subject of anti-male sexism, I was very much a victim of that when I was younger :\

After all, what ultimately killed Sunday school for me was my 5th grade year; when the teachers in my class, who were all women, made no attempt to hide the fact they strongly preferred the girls in the class over the boys. While the girls were treated as equals to the teachers (The teachers addressed them as "Miss [last name]"), the boys were treated like scum (Especially me), plus when we played a game, the teachers rigged it so the girls would always win. Hell, when the other boys started bullying me, the teachers punished me for standing up for myself. It was terrible >_<

I still deal with it to some extent; partially people trying to force "manly" things onto me (Weight lifting being probably the most common one), along with mom ever so often telling me "you're a man; you can lift 100lbs with one hand" >_>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 13, 2013, 02:13:06 am
.......that last one is just ridiculous

your body frame alone isn't capable of that. and since you're not on steroids, you're not either. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 13, 2013, 08:27:46 am
Quote from: Bella on March 12, 2013, 07:03:23 pm
Or to use another example - people point out the fact that there are dozens of birth control options for women, while men only get two choices, condoms and sterilization. Again, this is NOT "female privilege". This is because the medical establishment and society have decided that women should be the ones to carry the burden of birth control in relationships - that men should be spared any inconvenience or discomfort associated with contraception. Male privilege at work again.


You say male privilege, I say not fair. I would love an option that doesn't break or isn't permanent.
The problem is we don't get much of a choice, IN ANYTHING. It would have been the same for women if the science was so far ahead. Not to mention, guys don't get pregnant, we don't get to carry our offspring. While women get to make all choices regarding the child up until birth, and in most cases even after. A guy who makes one mistake gets stuck with a woman who would get pregnant, just for child support and government programs, and don't say that I'm sexist because I've seen it happen, it was my own family. If a guy wants to take care of that kid, he can't. Why, because of the stereo type that a guy can't take care of a kid alone, people will look down on him, and call him a pedo behind his back, because all guys are chauvinist pigs and perverts right? And forget about a reverse situation where the woman pays child support, no it's always the guys fault. Always. No, I'd rather make my kids in a lab, less heartache to worry about. When raising the kids, forget about teaching right and wrong, BECAUSE NOTHING IS WRONG ANY MORE!
Beside's the obvious things, but seriously, how long until those get fucked over too.
The feeling I get from this world is that it's selfish, that the people don't give a flying fuck about any one else, and that this world is not for me, I'd rather not be here. Empathy and chivalry have been fucked over and I'm just honestly waiting for this world to die. For everything to die... This world is painful.

@leaf: I think we already went over that.
Sorry for calling you a kid, again

@everyone else: Lets change the topic now, it seems that you're all so frustrated that you're repeating the same thing over and over again.

Three topics that get my blood boiling:
the mistreatment of kids,
rape of any kind,
bashing of any religion.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 13, 2013, 10:21:17 am
QuoteYou say male privilege, I say not fair. I would love an option that doesn't break or isn't permanent.


I'd put it more towards laziness on the part of the reproductive health segment of the medicine.  It's easier to disable or control lady parts because no one's really demanded or even seriously looked at medical male birth control before the 1970s, whereas female birth control has been a focus since the 1800s.  Part of that you could call a 'male domination' I suppose, but it's more of a supply/demand thing really.

QuoteWhile women get to make all choices regarding the child up until birth, and in most cases even after.


Don't know where you get that particular tidbit from.  First, it's a sweeping generalization of society.  Second, it simply isn't true from a legal or a reality standpoint for most couples.  I'd say almost every couple makes decisions related to their unborn child together, even if they aren't in a quote "healthy" relationship for the simple fact that it's kind of hard to have sole control over something like that.  Sure, it happens if you have a particularly dominating lady or an uninterested/absent male; but then reverse it where a man dominates the woman with his opinions (See: Every cult ever, many of the "fundamental" religions).  Neither is right.

QuoteA guy who makes one mistake gets stuck with a woman who would get pregnant, just for child support and government programs, and don't say that I'm sexist because I've seen it happen, it was my own family.


If you subscribe to that, don't bang random women you meet.  Get a prenup when or if you marry.  It's cynical as hell, but easy to avoid.  I'd also like to point out that this is a society today where it's difficult to get 'stuck' with a woman you get pregnant.  Child support payment rates are low, evasion is high.  Second, that's not second, that's just ignorant on both parts.  I've seen the same damn thing happen a dozen times, and it isn't because government support actually pays out that way whatever it says on payment.  It's just another sign of the failure of educational systems and society as a whole to provide for the poorest among us.  Or you're just fucking stupid.

QuoteWhy, because of the stereo type that a guy can't take care of a kid alone, people will look down on him, and call him a pedo behind his back, because all guys are chauvinist pigs and perverts right?


I'd hate to live where you live, because there are plenty of single fathers around here and they tend to get the same treatment as single mothers.  Some say they're trash, irresponsible, and look down on them while others try to support their efforts to raise a child.  It's difficult bringing up a kid alone from a logistics standpoint, let alone having to face detractors in the public (seriously, fuck them) whatever your gender.  All single parents deserve the support of their family whatever the circumstances.  Having family behind you makes a big difference.

It's also worth saying that until the late 1960s, almost every court found in favor of the father in a divorce proceeding.  Part of that was a belief that women were to fragile and emotional, part was the very real inability for a divorced woman to provide for their children on their own because chances were they didn't have a job.  Or make enough money.

Quoteno it's always the guys fault. Always.


No it isn't, that's why they invented a thing called no fault divorce.  There's also the inherent societal bias towards men when it comes to things like, say, getting a girl pregnant.  Yes, people'll call for him to 'do the right thing' and marry her.... while they're calling the girl a 'slut' for 'seducing' him. 

TL;DR It sucks for everyone

QuoteWhen raising the kids, forget about teaching right and wrong, BECAUSE NOTHING IS WRONG ANY MORE!


This line isn't old.  It hasn't been used as an excuse or a complaint for 2000+ years rather then doing something more productive about societal issues then whinging on about how no one has morals anymore.  Crime rates are down, poverty is down, mean education and literacy level is rising to the point we have to make up or create issues to be 'problems'.

QuoteBeside's the obvious things, but seriously, how long until those get fucked over too.


Like women getting the right to vote!  Let alone the damn negros!  I mean, next thing you know good white girl's will be marrying the brutes.

Seriously, try an argument that's less easy to escalate that far.

QuoteThe feeling I get from this world is that it's selfish, that the people don't give a flying fuck about any one else


It always has been, they never have.  Welcome to humanity, there's a three drink minimum.

QuoteEmpathy and chivalry have been fucked over and I'm just honestly waiting for this world to die. For everything to die... This world is painful.


Grow a fucking pair

TL;DR
Nothing new, just rehashing the same arguments trotted out since the last world war ended.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 13, 2013, 10:36:54 am
Well excuse me for letting my guard down!
I didn't realize I'd be brutally scrutinized for it.
Where I come from, worst case scenarios are common place.
And it's a wonderful idea to verbally attack the depressed, thank-you for making me feel even worse, you're a real pal.

If I'm wrong then the world is better than I thought it was.
Prove me wrong, don't insult me. >:(
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 13, 2013, 12:50:43 pm
I agree with most of Stew said, so I'm not going to reply to his whole post, but there are a couple of points I (in part) object to -

Quote from: stewartsage on March 13, 2013, 10:21:17 am
QuoteYou say male privilege, I say not fair. I would love an option that doesn't break or isn't permanent.


I'd put it more towards laziness on the part of the reproductive health segment of the medicine.  It's easier to disable or control lady parts because no one's really demanded or even seriously looked at medical male birth control before the 1970s, whereas female birth control has been a focus since the 1800s.  Part of that you could call a 'male domination' I suppose, but it's more of a supply/demand thing really.


@Simon - Dude, you didn't understand me. I WAS saying that I think it's unfair that women get 100 forms of birth control and men get either 1 or 2 depending on whether or not you consider sterilization "birth control". But guess what, that ISN'T an example of Female Privilege. Did you know that there have been several trials of male hormonal BC in recent decades? And that it's never gotten very far through testing and approval, because (most) men don't want to use it? Because the (generally mild-to-moderate, comparable with female hormonal BC) side effects were simply too much for their poor masculine bodies to handle. Men would MUCH rather women foot the difficulty of having their hormonal patterns changed (which, again, can be extremely mild or even positive for some women, while others are faced with crippling side effects - it's all a matter of personal body chemistry + types of hormones and doses being used). And then you have various forms of mechanical male BC (there's currently one in trials in India that works as a sort of temporary vasectomy - not to get graphic, but it's an injectable gel that blocks the sperm from traveling where it needs to go) which may or may not pass trials in the West, because again, dudes would much rather women be fitted with painful IUDs or undergo open-abdomen surgery to be sterilized than suffer the horrors of a short, relatively painless and non-invasive surgery themselves.

@Stew: See above. I would actually reckon that it's much easier to temporarily disable a dude's reproductive system than a woman's (since for men you really just have to stop the sperm from getting where they have to go, whereas with women you have to modify their endocrine system to stop ovulation OR change the uterus so it won't allow implantation). But the current state of female BC is "just good enough" and men don't want to experience any sort of inconvenience or discomfort in using birth control (see EVERY DUDEBRO EVER WHO HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT WEARING CONDOMS, even through they are literally the only way to avoid STD's). And the medical community has gotten behind them, probably because the medical community is run by men (like almost everything else on earth).

Quote from: stewartsage on March 13, 2013, 10:21:17 am
QuoteWhile women get to make all choices regarding the child up until birth, and in most cases even after.


Don't know where you get that particular tidbit from.  First, it's a sweeping generalization of society.  Second, it simply isn't true from a legal or a reality standpoint for most couples.  I'd say almost every couple makes decisions related to their unborn child together, even if they aren't in a quote "healthy" relationship for the simple fact that it's kind of hard to have sole control over something like that.  Sure, it happens if you have a particularly dominating lady or an uninterested/absent male; but then reverse it where a man dominates the woman with his opinions (See: Every cult ever, many of the "fundamental" religions).  Neither is right.


@Simon AND Stew: When (cisgendered) men gain the ability to become pregnant and give birth, you WILL have the choice to decide what happens to your fetus. Until then - no uterus, no decision.

Though I'll reiterate what Stew said - most couples DO make shared decisions about pregnancy and child-rearing. Unless the father is out of the picture, then why the fuck should it matter if he gets a say in keeping a pregnancy or raising the kid? If he's too disinterested, lazy or responsibility-avoiding to stay with the mom and be a part of her life, he shouldn't expect to be able to dispense advice on what she should do with her pregnancy or child (if carried to term). -_-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 13, 2013, 01:16:02 pm
To put it simply (Well, this it what I think):
If you don't want to get anyone pregnant, just don't engage in said activity with them in the first place.


^ This guy says this all the time, it's common sense when ya think about it.


Maybe you guys are right, I should leave this topic alone. This is turning into a war; the blood/sweat/tears (cake) kind, and I started it with the clothing thing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 13, 2013, 01:26:08 pm
Yes, I realize that, my motto is the safest sex is none at all.
That's not what what I'm getting at.
All I'm saying is that the legal system seems to favor the woman in most cases where there is a divorce or premarital infantry.
Just because the father isn't with the woman who carried his child, doesn't always mean he doesn't want the kid.

Wait... how did it get to this? Now I remember.

Back to the original topic.
While I realize that men have been the nicest people throughout history, doesn't mean we havn't changed, after all it does have a lot to do with how you're raised.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 13, 2013, 01:27:47 pm
QuoteI didn't realize I'd be brutally scrutinized for it.


You posted an opinion.  On a public.  Internet forum.  Look back over those components to find where the mistake was made in not being scrutinized.  As for brutality; if you mean the arguments put forward were refuted in a semi-reasonable semi-intelligent manner with a minimum of cursing or personal attacks then yes.  I was brutal as fuck.

TL;DR:

QuoteWhere I come from, worst case scenarios are common place.


I ain't getting in a 'who came from a poorer area' contest then you.

TL;DR:


QuoteAnd it's a wonderful idea to verbally attack the depressed, thank-you for making me feel even worse, you're a real pal.


Don't even try to get a pity party out of me.  You brought the challenge in a public forum expecting a response; don't play it off as an attack on all you hold dear.  Except for that grow a pair comment.  That was an insult. 

TL;DR


I also ain't your pal, guy.  I'm a stranger on the internet with a low tolerance for hearing the same argument I've heard from old men and women going on a decade now so it's a tad stale to my ears.  Unlike them, my good man, you are in perfect position for sarcastic internet pictures.

TL;DR:


QuoteIf I'm wrong then the world is better than I thought it was.
Prove me wrong, don't insult me. >:(




Pretty sure I outlined a world worse then you did.  Where no group is treated better then any other and everyone is an asshole to everyone else, instead of there being a favored gender or class.  Of course if that makes you feel a tad like your own issues aren't as important, or maybe even causes you to, dare I suggest (I do), momentarily reconsider sitting back just bitching about life and maybe doing something about it then I'm feeling pretty good for myself.

TL;DR:


As a second point; there is no argument to say the world is abjectly 'better' or 'worse' then a person's opinion, because it is just that.  An opinion.  There is no world measurement of things being 'better' other then what the media trots out as signs of things going downhill, and there certainly is no defined rubric to refute or prove either of our positions.  Therefore, I refuse to rise to your challenge.

TL;DR:
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 13, 2013, 01:35:29 pm
ANIMAL TESTING. NOW PLEASE... please?
Haven't we all had enough of this sexism bullcrap?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 13, 2013, 01:44:30 pm
up until this topic there wasn't one directed insult.
FINE, yes. Animal testing it is.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 13, 2013, 02:11:14 pm
i'm gonna sit back and wait for the shitstorm to dispense. only until everyone has had their say can we move on without clusterfucking it up.

*kicks back and munches on popcorn*

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 13, 2013, 02:36:20 pm
good point.*gets shield*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 13, 2013, 02:52:37 pm
RE:ANIMAL TESTING
The critters are going to die sooner or later anyway. Why not let them do some good for science while they're at it?

Naturally, one should avoid obviously cruel and painful experiments when possible, but some things are worth that price.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 13, 2013, 05:06:03 pm
Well said Nejin, as usual.  It doesn't strike me as terribly useful or appropriate to use animals for things like cosmetics, but even procedures like vivisection have uses.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 13, 2013, 05:15:27 pm
Thirding Nej. Until there's a better way to run experiments (for instance, testing on lab-grown organs or something of the like) animals will have to do.

This is probably gonna sound dumb, but I've always wondered - what possible use DOES vivisection have, anyway? Why not wait until the animal dies and do an autopsy, or perform exploratory surgeries while it's alive? It's never made sense to me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 13, 2013, 05:29:02 pm
It's really a leftover of when surgeons performed operations in front of students in a classroom setting.  It allows the doctor/biologist/etc. to see all the organs functioning inside the body.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 13, 2013, 11:39:12 pm
i'm against most forms of animal testing, considering that 99% of the stuff tested on them is for humans, and can just be tested on humans anyway. drug trials are a great way for some people to make money, meaning that everyone benefits: the animals don't get tested on (considering some of the sick stuff i've heard of, this is a MAJOR plus in my book), the scientists get their data, and people get more sources of income.

of course, in the cases when it physically CAN'T be tested on humans (very rare, but possible), animals are a logical next step. but did we REALLY have to launch Kudryavka into space? wouldn't an egg or some thermal sensors or something have worked just as well?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 14, 2013, 12:09:36 am
I don't really like the idea of animal testing, but there are some cases where there's no other option
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 14, 2013, 10:00:43 pm
yes, Animal testing is and should be as Nej said...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 15, 2013, 05:28:07 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 13, 2013, 11:39:12 pm
i'm against most forms of animal testing, considering that 99% of the stuff tested on them is for humans, and can just be tested on humans anyway. drug trials are a great way for some people to make money, meaning that everyone benefits: the animals don't get tested on (considering some of the sick stuff i've heard of, this is a MAJOR plus in my book), the scientists get their data, and people get more sources of income.

of course, in the cases when it physically CAN'T be tested on humans (very rare, but possible), animals are a logical next step. but did we REALLY have to launch Kudryavka into space? wouldn't an egg or some thermal sensors or something have worked just as well?

You have to remember the scope of animal testing is MUCH, MUCH bigger than just drug tests. And sure, there are plenty of those that could be done on humans starting at a certain level, and some of them are. But what about the gazillion various project on, say, stem cells? Gene splicing, bone marrow cloning, et cetera? There's so much progress to be made that we can't even begin to touch on if we don't have things to test our ideas on - and we sure can't use humans for that, or the bloody humanitarians would have a field day with us.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 15, 2013, 05:49:23 am
It lives... :)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 16, 2013, 12:48:20 am
@nej: see, you underestimate my capacity for caring here. i could never hurt an animal. but humans are a different story. humans i could care less about. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 16, 2013, 06:18:57 am
Humans are animals as well, K. The only difference is that humans can make civilization progress. Non-sapients, not having a civilization, can't. That's all that really matters.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 16, 2013, 02:01:28 pm
and, as sentient beings, we can consent to the tests we may put out upon one another. animals, not being able to speak our language or understand our customs, cannot. while they may be subject to experimentation within their own societies, being subjected to the experiments of another, which they are not part of, isn't right.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 16, 2013, 03:04:15 pm
In the face of progress, consent is only a bonus. Many things would've remained unknown if we limited ourselves that way. Besides, we are the apex - us using the lesser creatures in the food chain to our own benefit is only part of the natural cycle, even if it's not only eating them.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 16, 2013, 04:51:03 pm
i wish we DID eat them. at least they wouldn't live on that way.

but you can't tell me you're alright with ALL animal testing. they experiment on KITTENS, man. ;^; (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/07/24/ricky-gervais-appalled-by-kitten-research-at-cardiff-university_n_1697057.html)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 16, 2013, 05:31:52 pm
That was probably meant to make me feel sad, but all it did was make me laugh at the hilarious clip below it about spiders on drugs and their effects on web-spinning...and other things.


In all honesty though, my opinion on that particular case:
Why kittens? Using an animal with that sort of cultural attachment (instead of say, rats) does seem a bit unnecessary in this context. Could have been changed. Still, that is only because we, the human race, value cats more than we value rats, since they are of more use to us (that use being killing rats in fact). If it were instead, say, a question of experimenting on Zebras vs Giraffes, or Woodpeckers vs Hummingbirds, there wouldn't have been much of a riot. Yes, the experiment is cruel, but there's no other feasible way to research it available, and the end result of the experiment is ultimately a lot of interesting, valuable data that can be used in future medicine. The main conflict here is that the animal experimented on was one of significantly larger cultural value, and that there is an equally suitable (I think - I don't have the specifics of the experiments so I can't be certain) candidate for the experiment in the average laboratory mouse/rat, which is a lot more acceptable as an experimental subject.

TL;DR - I don't really have a large problem with it. I can see why some people would find certain experiments horrifying, and to minimize conflict between the scientific community and the populace at large cutting down on those experiments or making them more acceptable is recommendable. An oppressed scientific community doesn't get as much funding as a well-liked one, after all, and that leads to less and slower progress, and probably in directions we don't need (like more weapons research).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 16, 2013, 07:47:11 pm
it's all our opinion here, after all. i'm not gonna debate that point any further since it's an acceptable answer, and, as stated, your opinion. but i'm curious as to what you think of the logical extension of it. there's an interesting scenario in Sword Art Online that can be referenced here (putting it in a spoiler in case anyone hasn't watched the whole show yet):

[spoiler]in the latter half of SAO, after the collapse of the game Sword Art Online, the virtual world breaks up and all the captured minds are released. However, in the process, a rather unscrupulous individual (let's just call him creepo) traps about 200 minds into his own private server. Creepo then, along with his company, recycles all the remaining data from SAO--including the captured minds--back into a new project known as Alfheim Online. ALO is then used as the backdrop for Creepo to use the captured minds for his own experiments (behind the scenes, of course.)

the question here is: in the event that someone takes the mind of another, against their will/without their consent, and uses it for testing, would you be okay with that?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 16, 2013, 08:31:56 pm
In this case I'll be treating these "captured minds" or whatever as de-facto AI's, since I don't know the full context of things. But: No, I would not. In the case of it being some sort of mindtrap it'd be a hostage situation (and I don't think you need to ask me that question to know where I stand on that), but in the case of any individual managing to create new sentient life it is his responsibility to ensure these new lifeforms are treated with the same respect as humans. Be it talking pigs or thinking computers, an artificially created sapient is just as much a man's child as his biological offspring.

I would not have any (or at least, not as much) problems with this if he, say, gave these captured minds awareness of their situation and granted them some level of digital independence, so to speak. Arbitrarily trapping unwilling sapients in a game, however? Not only does it reek of generic bad guy plot, it's also stupid and ultimately self-destructive (like most generic bad guy behavior tends to be in the end).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 16, 2013, 10:03:37 pm
they're not AIs, for the record, they're real people who are stuck in a sort of stasis. if you've ever seen anything .hack, this series borrows a lot from that. (including the composer; he worked on both soundtracks and both sound divine. -w- )

am inclined to agree, considering that was the case here. random creepy bad guy traps a bunch of people for the purpose of unpaid experimentation. no free will involved here. but my question here is, why not just pay the people and not go through all the trouble of catching them and holding them hostage? :\

eh, either way, it's set to be resolved soon, since we'll be wrapping up the series this week.


we need a new topic.......how about where to draw the line of man vs machine? like, do you support the virtualization of human minds (aka the singularity movement), how much machine can a human be before not being human anymore, were robots to walk among us, would they be treated the same way humans would be and why, etc etc.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 16, 2013, 11:53:16 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 16, 2013, 10:03:37 pmwe need a new topic.......how about where to draw the line of man vs machine? like, do you support the virtualization of human minds (aka the singularity movement), how much machine can a human be before not being human anymore, were robots to walk among us, would they be treated the same way humans would be and why, etc etc.


Borderline-transhumanist reporting in, I'd write a lengthy post about my feelings on this subject but I have to sleep now. Drats. : (

Suffice to say, I think the merging of humans and machines would (will?) probably be a positive thing. As for defining humanity ... as long as those beings have what we recognize as "human nature" (however you want to define that) they'll still be human. Humanity is defined by the mind, not the body, after all. 
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 17, 2013, 12:28:33 am
here's another question for you, then. should we as humans cross that line? should we create robots with humanity?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 17, 2013, 12:48:24 am
On the subject of sentient robots, as Mega Man X has taught me, it's very much a double-edged sword; on one hand, there's the chance of a robot going homicidal, but at the same time, there's the chance of it doing good in the world and creating things to help people.

As for singularity, I'm a bit uncomfortable over the idea because it makes me think I'd become a brainless Cyberman, plus the fact it'd most likely mean living forever which I honestly wouldn't want .___.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 17, 2013, 01:17:03 am
i do, which is why i dig it. plug me in and download my mind into the net, man. just make me a digital room to sit in with my plushies and my anime, and i'm golden for the rest of eternity. -w-

as for robots, it'd be nice if project aiko (http://www.projectaiko.com/) could take off. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 17, 2013, 11:17:56 am
Mmm :\

Also, maybe if I could be with 2k-tan, I'd consider the "upgrade" >w>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 17, 2013, 11:55:55 am
there is the potential there, from what i can tell. :\

EDIT: hey guys, whenever we get done with the current topic, i have another one for ya: assisted suicide.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 18, 2013, 03:42:03 am
Mmmm... robots... I can't wait...

singularity... I really wouldn't like to have my whole mind on the net
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 18, 2013, 08:50:30 am
With the correct amount of security I would defiantly Transport my mind to the web.
Of course there would have to be an emotion synthesizer. As only your memories are transferred.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 18, 2013, 09:23:02 pm
virtual emotions aren't too far off, with the proper amount of mental study.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 19, 2013, 08:23:17 am
Yes but, aren't emotions related chemically as well as physically?
Without a body are we capable of feeling any emotion?
Compassion, it starts with a feeling in my chest
Fear, it starts in my head.
And love, obviously starts (for me) in the heart and another place.

Without the parts to feel such emotions, wouldn't we become cold and lifeless.
For testing purposes, I'd want only a copy of me in the internet. I'd likely be a worm type file so I could travel on my own. And the ability to talk to it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 19, 2013, 08:31:47 am
All emotions start in your head as various neural impulses combined with various hormone emissions. A neural network is essentially the aim of any conversion, and a hormone emission system can easily be added to the code once you he the network itself - as long as we know the effects of every particular hormone on every particular neuron, we can simulate all these effects perfectly.

It's all in your head. The rest is biological side-effects of your brain being connected to your body, which obviously would not be there if you were a computer.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 19, 2013, 03:02:02 pm
On a thing from before,(We don't have to go back to it!)
[spoiler]http://jezebel.com/5986271/hot-girls-in-tight-clothes-do-not-keep-boys-from-learning?tag=girls (http://jezebel.com/5986271/hot-girls-in-tight-clothes-do-not-keep-boys-from-learning?tag=girls)
QuoteWhen it comes to what we're taught about men, sex, and self-control, most of us learn one maxim early on: "a hard dick has no conscience." The wording may vary, but the claim is always the same: guys, especially young dudes who are still in or just emerging from the testosterone tsunami of puberty, are powerless in the face of their own libidos. Women must protect themselves from men (and men from themselves) by being careful not to provide the sort of visual distractions that can lead to erections and the disasters that might follow.

there is more to it then that. But that's kinda what I think, kinda why anime uses ecchi for comedy. The article i think explains a different method.[/spoiler]
Maybe there should be an HBT(+18)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 19, 2013, 06:40:57 pm
Frankly, that article sucked. Not because of the point it was making, but because I had no clue whatsoever as to what the point was until well past halfway through it. Then it was all "oh, that's what you meant" and nothing else came from it.


It's a valid point, but that's not how to make it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 19, 2013, 11:29:37 pm
i might be a tease, but if a horny teenage boy comes anywhere near me choco's gonna have to slap a bitch. SOMEONE'S gotta keep those dogs in line. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 20, 2013, 04:14:11 am
lol
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 20, 2013, 08:45:09 am
I'm not a dog...
[spoiler][/spoiler]
But I'm also not an uncontrollable teenage boy.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 20, 2013, 11:00:35 am
did i point at you? no, i didn't point at you. i didn't think you were a teenager, if i offended, i'm sorry.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 20, 2013, 11:03:29 am
No, not offended... just sayin.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 20, 2013, 11:09:21 am
eh, i group together "teenage boys" as those males of the teenage age who act that way and deserve the title. if you don't act like a complete skeeze, then i wouldn't label you that, because i wouldn't be thinking of age and gender specifically.
by contrast, the term "teenage boy" conjures up images which fit exactly what i label. thus, the term.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 20, 2013, 11:20:38 am
I felt as though I was some how is not vaguely grouped into that because I am in fact male, we do have urges, and they can be painful. I'm not saying that all guys do, but if your going to tease some one you might in fact get the corresponding attention.

Think about it this way, if you hold out a treat in front of a dog, whats the first thing they'll think to do? Grab it, along with your hand. Now not all do, but some do, a well trained dog will wait for it, though and if you tease long enough eventually they lose interest. In a way guys are like dogs, it's painful to resist but if we were raised right we wait anyway, after all if the something(or someone) were after isn't ours to take, what right do we have to? And the great thing about people is they have the right to choose what happens to their own body.
within reason

Also, most teenage boys aren't like that, a least not the ones I hung out with.
If you're grouping teenage boys together and using "teenage boy" to mean skeeze, then isn't that the same as calling someone gay and meaning stupid?.

I'm actually 19. not sure if that's relevant.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 20, 2013, 12:00:13 pm
technically "gay" means "happy", but i get offended when people use that word to mean stupid. just like i get offended when people use the word "dyke" in general. >>;

cool for you for hanging out with nice people. i did too. but my school was full of pervy dropout-bound losers who were worthy of the title. when you find a guy who fits the image of a teenage boy you see in a movie, THOSE are the ones i label. not ones who don't strike me as being "teenage"; if they have the maturity to rise above things like urges, peer pressure, and juvenile stupidity the likes of which you see mostly in 8th grade, then i don't label them, because i think of them as just people, not a category of human.

and you DO realize you just compared your gender to dogs...?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 20, 2013, 01:08:33 pm
Yes, I realize.
I was being contradictory towards myself
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 20, 2013, 04:37:15 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on March 20, 2013, 11:20:38 am
I felt as though I was some how is not vaguely grouped into that because I am in fact a human, we do have urges, and they can be painful. I'm not saying that all people do, but if your going to tease some one you might in fact get the corresponding attention.


Fixed for accuracy. ^^;

I dislike the idea that men are somehow, as a group, more physically / hormonally / sexually driven than other genders / sexes. I mean yeah, guys are certainly socialized to be more at-ease with displaying their libidos for all to see (as evidenced by the great abundance of boys / men who will openly hit on women in the creepiest ways imaginable), whereas girls are generally socialized to be ~*delicate pure flowers*~ who wouldn't even THINK of talking about sexual matters (let alone admit to having sexual urges). But that's just it - it's a matter of socialization. Because our society condones, if not REQUIRES, men to be sexual beings, while women are strongly encouraged to be as pure and sexless as is humanly possibly, and generally face character assassination if they choose to be as sexually free and empowered as dudes. (This is why you hear so many women called sluts and whores while those words are rarely used for guys.)

And since I'm asexual and hate asexuality being left out of conversations on gender and sexuality - this is a very unfair thing for asexual and libido-less people as well. In general, women are more comfortable with identifying as asexual than men because there's just so damn much pressure for guys to be super-sexed-up - libido is intrinsically tied to masculinity in our society, while there's no such libido-gender connection for women. Though it ALSO unfairly effects women, since society assumes that "sexless" is the default female state. So many women who come out as asexual are told that "that's just how women are!" or are accused by their more sexually-inclined peers of being repressed or buying into old-fashioned gender roles.

TL;DR:
-If you're a hetero/bi/homo/pansexual dude, you're accused of being a hormonally-driven sexbeast. But you better act sexual, goddammit, or else people will constantly question your masculinity.
-If you're a hetero/bi/homo/pansexual woman, you better go ahead and stay quiet about your sexuality unless you want to be accused of being a slut or whore. Though you may be accused of selling out to the patriarchy or being old-fashioned if you aren't sexual enough.
-If you're an asexual man, good-fucking-luck with that, have fun having your masculinity and sexuality questioned for the rest of your existence.
-If you're an asexual woman, society will probably condone your orientation for the most part, although you will probably be harassed by relatives wondering why you won't "find a man" or "if there's something wrong with your hormones". Also, have a nice time trying to convince your non-asexual friends that you're simply acting out of biological impulse and not horribly sexually-repressed, damaged, mentally- or physiologically-ill, or covering up your sexuality to fit into the socially-sanctioned mold of Pure And Virtuous Woman.

TL;DR Part II: Society does, and will, suck for all of us until we start recognizing sexuality as something that operates independently of sex or gender.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 20, 2013, 05:46:47 pm
Wow... I really hate how people keep saying "What's wrong with society?". What's wrong with society is that we are not making it any better :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 20, 2013, 05:55:02 pm
@Bella: Indeed on that :\

After all, many people seem to frown upon me for being male, not being interested in sex, and having a nonexistent track record with relationships, and will try to "help" by butting into my life and start telling me how I need to live it (Always strongly implying I'm a "total loser" who needs help to become "a real man" (read: a sex-obsessed frat boy). It honestly pisses me off so much; why these people feel the need to do that, I'll never know >_<;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 20, 2013, 06:06:59 pm


Their bigotry knows no bounds. Ignore the RL trolls, you are more unique than they will ever be ^z^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 20, 2013, 06:33:08 pm
Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 20, 2013, 05:46:47 pm
Wow... I really hate how people keep saying "What's wrong with society?". What's wrong with society is that we are not making it any better :3


Unfortunately, it's a little more difficult than that. People who want progress are up against hundreds - often thousands - of years worth of prejudice, bigotry and general backwardness masquerading as tradition. And much of this tradition is said to be "holy" or "sacred", so the supporters can claim that they're taking orders from none other than God Himself, which throws a whole other set of difficulties into the mix. (For instance - What about freedom of religion? If they believe they have god on their side, how can we ever convince them to let go of less-savory aspects of their belief systems? Where do we draw the line between religion and ethnic / cultural tradition? Etc, etc.)

Sacred or not, most of these traditions exist to keep powerful men in power. And the thing about power is, once an individual or group has it, they will do literally everything they can to keep it. Nobody likes to lose power, and most very powerful people / groups will defend their power to the point of theft, assault, murder, rape, war or genocide, or through decidedly more subtle - but still incredibly harmful - means like stripping lower classes of rights or civil liberties. This is how things have operated through most of human history, and it's still operating this way today.

Using a somewhat timely example, in the most recent US presidential election, many states took measures to prevent black, latino, working-class, poor, young and elderly people from turning out to vote. Even going as far as modifying state law. This wasn't done out of pure racism (not quite, at least), classism or ageist sentiment - but the fact that all these groups constitute a large, under-privileged "lower class", and the powers that be will do everything possible to keep these lower classes from gaining "control" of the political system (by voting in politicians who [claim they] will work to better serve the interests of these groups). Powerful groups trying to hold on to their power. Same shit, different day.

So yes, ideally we would be able to just stand up and tell society to stick its bigotry and backwardness where the sun don't shine. And if enough of us got together, we'd ideally be able to rapidly effect change without difficulty or sacrifice. But we don't live in an ideal world, and there are huge roadblocks that prevent this from occurring. That isn't to say that we should give up - no way, if we stopped trying to change the world, there would be no chance for progress. But we have to realize that change will generally be slow, face painful amounts of resistance and draw crushing amounts of criticism from those wishing to keep the "Traditional" order.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 20, 2013, 08:30:09 pm
And here we are, back at the point I was trying to make not too long ago.

Progress is invaluable. The lives of a few animals, human or not, the pain and blood and sweat and tears of said beings, paid here and there for the sake of progressing society is a total ripoff. We are paying for something invaluable, and buying it cheaper than any money ever would.

So stop whining about the small sacrifices, folks.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 21, 2013, 01:06:07 pm
when zombie day comes about, we'll get our change.

next topic: assisted suicide
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 21, 2013, 02:23:07 pm
I believe that if you assist in suicide you're partly responsible if that person succeeds.
It's to me, the same as murder.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 21, 2013, 07:14:47 pm
i'm all for it. we should have the right to end our lives if we really want to. it's OUR life, after all. and if someone wants to die but can't accomplish it themselves (too sick/weak/old), then why not help them? basicially all the people affected are dying anyway, why make them suffer? we put down dogs that have terminal cancer but not people, where's the logic in that?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 21, 2013, 07:48:45 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 21, 2013, 07:14:47 pm
i'm all for it. we should have the right to end our lives if we really want to. it's OUR life, after all. and if someone wants to die but can't accomplish it themselves (too sick/weak/old), then why not help them? basicially all the people affected are dying anyway, why make them suffer? we put down dogs that have terminal cancer but not people, where's the logic in that?


I agree with Choco here. I've never viewed suicide as a shameful or morally-wrong thing - I mean, it certainly shouldn't be glamorized or considered an "easy way out" and people who are suicidal due to psychiatric illness should receive as much intervention as possible to keep them from taking their life. But if somebody is in horrible pain or suffering poor quality of life with no chance of improvement and can't bear to live anymore, and doesn't have the physical ability to take their own life, I see nothing wrong with another person taking it for them. And suggesting the assistant is a murderer is patently bizarre - if a person commits suicide using a gun, is the firearm considered a murderer, more responsible for the death than the person who held it? Of course not - the very suggestion is nonsensical. In an assisted suicide situation, the assistant should just be considered another tool - no different from any other object a person might use to commit suicide.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 21, 2013, 09:27:27 pm
I third that.

On a similar note, I remember the controversy on the local news several years ago surrounding a woman on life support; the doctors were ready to pull the plug because she was too far gone to be saved, but her family refused to let them because they felt she should stay alive and continue to suffer because apparently that was the better option in their eyes. I don't remember how that saga ended, but I remember my thoughts on the matter were that they should just let her go and end her suffering.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 22, 2013, 10:43:20 am
was that terri schaivo? no wait, her husband was FOR pulling the plug.

in a situation like that, i would err on the side of possibility. but usually, there is NO CHANCE they will wake up/recover, so why prolong their life? there's no life to be lived, just a sort of stasis, like preserving an organ in a jar.
however, if the doctors believe that there is the potential for recovery, i'd go that route. if the person wants to commit suicide later on because their quality of life is in the toilet, i'm not stopping them. but ideally, THEY should make the choice, not someone else.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 22, 2013, 10:56:52 am
I just don't see self inflicted death the correct way out.
Most of the issues that would "warrant" suicide are in most cases trivial, it's just that people are hurting too much to see that. It makes me sad to see people equate themselves to useless,
as every single human being on the face of the planet has value.

Suicide is something that tries to isolate you from others, you end up seeing your self as a waste of time and space, and you don't think about how it would affect other's if you were to just not exist.
It's selfish, no matter who you are someone does in fact care about you.

And if it's assisted suicide, the one who help would have to deal with the loved ones of that person.
Legally it would be seen as murder, not to mention the depression you might go through, if you're not completely desensitize to human mortality.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 22, 2013, 11:02:23 am
and what if the family agrees with the "victim's" decision? what if they help? what if THEY'RE the ones to assist? and what is the "correct" way out, per se?  not all suicides see themselves as "worthless", by the way. some people want to escape pain. some people have nothing left. and others, like the ones we're discussing here, have nothing left to look forward to but agony and misery. calling suicide "selfish" and the reasons "trivial" shows you know nothing about what goes through peoples' minds when they make that choice.

it's easy to judge things you've never had to deal with yourself.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 22, 2013, 11:19:15 am
Actually I have dealt with it myself. I was too chicken to go though with it. What i realized after was that the reasons were trivial, life goes on, and it does get better.

And what I've saw from my own experience was i wanted to escape from the pain, and blot out everyone else. I conveniently forgot about all the people who were trying to help me.

The way I see it your not dead until your dead, any sooner is too soon.
As long as there is some one who cares, life is still worth living, to me anyway.

It might be different for others but for what articles I've read and the thing I've seen, the theme of which is quite common.

[spoiler]http://jezebel.com/5991792/woman-in-tech-tweets-about-sexist-dudes-in-tech-dude-get-fired-internet-meltdown-ensues (http://jezebel.com/5991792/woman-in-tech-tweets-about-sexist-dudes-in-tech-dude-get-fired-internet-meltdown-ensues)
Woman in Tech Tweets About Sexist Dudes in Tech. Dude Gets Fired. Internet Meltdown Ensues.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 23, 2013, 06:22:32 pm
by pain i meant physical, not emotional or mental. as in a war vet who has such horrible phantom limb pain that he doesn't want to continue with that crap quality of life.
or the terminal cancer patient who is in excruciating pain due to the cancer eating away at her spine, or the extensive radiation treatments.

still, while the reasons may be trivial to you, they might not be to someone else.


i think the views on this one might also depend on your views on what happens after we die. i believe we reincarnate, so we are simply leaving this life for the next. and if it is our time to go, it is our time to go, as is destiny and fate. there'll be another chance next time.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 23, 2013, 08:56:30 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 22, 2013, 11:02:23 am
and what if the family agrees with the "victim's" decision? what if they help? what if THEY'RE the ones to assist? and what is the "correct" way out, per se?  not all suicides see themselves as "worthless", by the way. some people want to escape pain. some people have nothing left. and others, like the ones we're discussing here, have nothing left to look forward to but agony and misery. calling suicide "selfish" and the reasons "trivial" shows you know nothing about what goes through peoples' minds when they make that choice.

it's easy to judge things you've never had to deal with yourself.


This may be a bit tangential, but speaking as somebody who's lost a mother, aunt, uncle and grandmother to slow-progressing, but otherwise hideous illnesses that entailed much suffering (cancer, in the case of my mom, aunt and uncle, and Alzheimer's disease in the case of my grandma) I can honestly say that I felt relief more than anything else when they passed away. Actually, I was a little young to have complex emotions when my uncle passed, but in my very young mind I was happy that he was no longer sick and in heaven / whatever my conception of the afterlife was at that age. My aunt and grandmother were almost entirely gone, mentally-speaking, before their passing, so I'd been mourning them for awhile before their actual physical deaths.

My mother was a different case. I was much closer to her that the other family members I mentioned, and she was almost entirely cognizant until her passing despite having suffered a stroke caused by the medication she was on. But she'd been ill for about 1/4th of my life at that point, and being with a loved one who is in very bad shape for so long (at least viewed from my point-of-view) gave me a different perspective on her passing. I was anguished, of course, but I can't say it was more devastating than seeing her ill. But I was mostly just glad that she was finally at peace.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, having a loved one die isn't always as bad as seeing them suffer. Unfortunately, some situations won't get better - particularly when you're dealing with terrible diseases that have poor survival rates / outcomes - and I'm not sure I would have understood at the time if any of them had chosen to end their own lives, but looking back in hindsight I certainly would.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 23, 2013, 09:07:14 pm
exactly... I mean, one can die of whatever disease he or she wants, yet if one's suffering physically, the way let's say, a terminal cancer diagnosed person, it will chip away both the mental health and desire to live, then one should be human, and let the poor soul go to it's conception of afterlife, prolonging life is to be done if the life quality is good enough for the person to live in peace... anything else is just torturing the poor guy/girl...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 24, 2013, 01:55:36 am
agreed. even some treatable illnesses/injuries may result in suicide, due to it being too painful. (i remember an SVU episode where a woman suffered 3rd and 4th degree burns from head to toe. she ended up dying of natural causes, but i image had she not she may have wanted to end her suffering.) that's not to say this outcome is a bad thing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 26, 2013, 08:45:32 am
Figured this would be good for another topichttp://jezebel.com/5991724/will-everyone-please-eat-gluten--please-because-you-are-literally-killing-me-kind-of?tag=food (http://jezebel.com/5991724/will-everyone-please-eat-gluten--please-because-you-are-literally-killing-me-kind-of?tag=food)
Will Everyone Please Eat Gluten? Please? Because You Are Literally Killing Me, Kind Of...

Or maybe


I think I know, one is something you chose to do, and the other is something you were raised to do.

Or if you want a heated debate.
[spoiler]http://register-her.com/index.php?title=False_Rape_Accusers (http://register-her.com/index.php?title=False_Rape_Accusers)[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 26, 2013, 11:23:20 am
what if you choose to cover yourself? the evils of sunlight, after all. >>;

btw, another topic for the queue, since i'm watching a documentary about it: What does everyone think of the Westboro Baptist Church? if you don't know them by name, they're the church that has anti-gay protests at soldier's funerals, calling their deaths "God's Retaliation Against Gays". >>;;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 26, 2013, 11:49:28 am
In the case off religious or cultural practices, If you don't get the choice, it isn't right, but of course there are people who would find wearing those comfortable.

In the case of the WBC, they are not a church, they're a bunch of radical imbeciles. No better then the muslim extremists or the ku klux klan, they are the idiots who speak for the masses.

And to reaffirm some thing I've said before. 
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 26, 2013, 11:57:13 am
I don't understand how the Christian Bible says that God loves everyone no matter what they do or *who they are*, but apparently it's a sin to be gay.

Just... what is up with that? (. )_(.)?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 26, 2013, 12:04:42 pm
@simon: you mean them? yeah, i'm inclined to agree, but their level of belief is kinda shocking, since it's like trying to push a really heavy box. it's theoretically possible, but the amount of resistance makes it more like pushing a wall. :\

@gluten free: i will eat what i want and gluten-free items are not on that list. mainly because i like coca-cola and pizza from the local pizza place and both of those likely contain gluten.
and people that follow the diet only glaze over the problems of those who actually need it, and that burns my ass. >>;

@clothes: if you want to cover up, cover up.
if you don't want to cover up, don't cover up.
that is all.

@spoilertopic: i'm not sure what to say about that.......i mean, i'd like to punch whoever wrote it. i agree that falsely accusing someone of rape is wrong, but the majority of people who accuse others of rape aren't lying, and if they target the wrong person, it could be because they thought that person did it, or because they're too scared to call out the actual person. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 26, 2013, 12:10:49 pm
@Westboro: Urgh, Westboro. They're less a church and more a hate group posing as a church; given how they not only picketed the funerals of soldiers, but also the funeral of Steve Jobs (As amusing as it was that they said his products were evil, yet the message they posted on their Facebook page had a "sent from iPhone" tag on it. Several of us on GameFAQs had a field day making fun of that when somebody posted a news article showing the message), the San Diego Comic Con (Because of people "worshiping the false gods of Batman and Superman"), are anti-every-religion-ever-except-for-theirs, and countless other things I've heard about.

From what I've heard, even the KKK frowns upon Westboro. I'll let that sink in.

@Gluten free: I just thought it was a cheap fad; like the low carb diet several years ago :\

@Clothes: Kari put it best
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 26, 2013, 12:26:05 pm
Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 26, 2013, 11:57:13 am
I don't understand how the Christian Bible says that God loves everyone no matter what they do or *who they are*, but apparently it's a sin to be gay.

Just... what is up with that? (. )_(.)?


There's no place in the Bible that states it's a sin to BE gay. But Leviticus pretty clearly states that man x man sex is forbidden (no word on woman x woman sex, however... *eyebrow wiggle*) under punishment of death. HOWEVER - and this is a biggie - Leviticus also lists a whole slew of other acts as forbidden and punishable by death - everything from consuming the fat and blood of animals and eating shellfish to trimming ones facial hair, wearing a mix of fabrics and planting different varieties of seeds in a single field. You can find the whole list here, in fact:

http://leviticusbans.tumblr.com/post/23730370413/76-things-banned-in-leviticus

In short, Christians who suggest that gay people are inherently sinful / immoral aren't even following their own Bible. Christians who claim that gay sex is wrong are a little closer to following the precepts of their holy book - but again, they can only be against man-on-man sex, since there's no mention of lesbianism anywhere in the Bible. And past experience has shown me that most Christians who hate on gays hate on gays of all genders.  Oh, and if they want to be anti-gay, they better also be against trimming their beards, selling land, not standing in front of elders and all the other trivial minutiae outlined in Leviticus as being offenses punishable by death - otherwise, they'd just be plain hypocritical.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 26, 2013, 11:23:20 am
what if you choose to cover yourself? the evils of sunlight, after all. >>;


Not going to lie, if (what we recognize as) hijabs were irreligious garments, I'd probably wear one from time to time. (As it stands, I'm considering adopting a traditional Russian headscarf to protect my head/neck from the horrors of biting insects / sunlight when I'm outdoors.) >>

But yes, as long as it's a person's personal choice (i.e., not forced on them by other people or by the law), I don't see any harm in wearing hijabs, burquas, traditional Orthodox Jewish or Christian clothing, etc. I mean, yeah, you can argue that it ISN'T their choice because of the social pressure inherent in every religion, but you could play that game for any sort of clothing - I mean, although there's absolutely nothing dirty or shameful about my body, I don't run around topless because of the huge amounts of social pressure I've faced since early childhood to keep my chest / midriff covered. And I likewise realize that certain articles of clothing could cause (less enlightened) people to make - entirely unfair, unfounded and frankly sexist - judgements about my personality, character or intelligence...

TL;DR, nobody should ever be judged for the clothing they choose to wear (or not wear).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 26, 2013, 12:37:20 pm
@Bella: Indeed on that. The point I love to raise on so-called "Christians" citing Leviticus as a reason to not have gay sex \ sex with a woman on her period \ etc. is how those are old testament laws; of which Jesus himself said are not to be acknowledged anymore. I find it so funny how people like my mom's family ignore that crucial bit so they feel more justified in their bigotry.

Also, indeed on clothing. If I want to wear a skirt, than I should be able to freely do so without being judged.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 26, 2013, 01:32:31 pm
@bella: it still speaks of both sides, and it speaks of it in both the old and new testimate.
The new testimate didn't get rid of what was right and wrong, it just got rid of the severe punishments associated with the actions, and with it the commandment do not judge and to love one another was reaffirmed, . Didn't really change anything otherwise. It abolished some of the rule though, although some of them we would have been better off leaving alone, like do not eat any thing with a split hoof.
No pig, it is the most unhealthy meat to eat.

The bible also says that no one thing bad is any worse or better then the others.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 26, 2013, 01:55:28 pm
I read that in different sources by the way. I wasn't sure which one was right.

And I do think that people *should* be able to wear what they want, and not judged by it, whether they are male or female. We are all unique and jargon.

(Contradicting my earlier statement) Women should also be able to wear whatever they want without being sexually harassed about it.

[spoiler]One thing I also never understood was women's rights. I'm not against it, but it's like society has advanced over the years and the majority of people feel that both genders are equal. So why do we have it if women are equal to men?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 26, 2013, 02:18:07 pm
on your spoiler leaf:[spoiler] Because you still have the people who refuse to change and the perverts running around and harassing women. And in some cases, this misinformed[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 26, 2013, 06:00:08 pm
[spoiler]not to split hairs, but women are not TECHNICALLY equal to men yet; we have yet to have a female president, women still earn less in the workplace, and are still looked down upon by some for the choices they make (abortion/birth control/sexual freedom/single parenthood/etc). women's rights crusades a wee bit too passionately for my tastes, but without that level of passion no one would listen, so cest la vie.[/spoiler]

speaking of which, what does everyone think of Birth Control? i was on it at one point, so i can't exactly hate on it lol

(sorry for swapping topics every 3 seconds, but there are just so many good ones today)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 26, 2013, 06:54:57 pm
Didn't we do birth control? (. )_(.)?

tl;dr, if you don't wanna have kids, use birth control! :D Or even don't have sex in the first place
If you don't use it, keep the kid. Let it grow up and live a perfect life.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 26, 2013, 07:23:04 pm
In regards to equal rights: What Kari said. Women still aren't equal with men yet, no matter which way the media tries to spin things. -__-

Re: BC: Birth control is awesome, suffice to say if it didn't exist I would stay celibate for the rest of my life or only date people who couldn't hypothetically get me knocked up. Though we shouldn't ignore the fact that it needs plenty of improvement. For instance:

-More male birth control options
-More widespread deployment / affordable options (poor people are often the ones who are most burdened by unwanted pregnancies, and having too many children or having children too early in life is a big contributing factor of poverty for women in developing nations)
-Less medical industry bureaucracy (For instance, there's a movement to make the pill available without prescriptions / mandatory pelvic exams, because that stops a lot of women from using it)
-More acceptance of non-pill-based methods of BC (many doctors are unfamiliar with implants, IUD's, and other long-acting / low-failure-rate BC methods, which is a shame because the pill doesn't work well for everybody)
-Acceptance of sterilization as a legitimate method of birth control for younger women. Seriously, doctors, stop assuming that every woman wants to be a mother (even if she doesn't know it yet) and will instantly regret sterilization.

On a personal level, I'm pretty wary of birth control - particularly the hormonal kinds. I think it's great when hormonal BC works for people - I think it's great, period - but I don't want to use it and feel my wishes should be respected by the medical establishment and wider society. The only type of female BC that looks even slightly appealing to me are IUDs, but even those have enormous drawbacks and, honestly, I seriously question whether it would be worth the cost / pain / trouble, especially considering that I probably wouldn't even be getting very much use out of it. >>

Also - again, this is TOTALLY PERSONAL and does not apply to other people - I really dislike the idea of using birth CONTROL. I don't want to control births, goddammit, I want to be physically incapable of pregnancy, for the rest of my life. Can't I just get sterilized and never have to deal with this fuckery again? >sighs<

Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 26, 2013, 06:54:57 pm
tl;dr, if you don't wanna have kids, use birth control! :D Or even don't have sex in the first place
If you don't use it, keep the kid. Let it grow up and live a perfect life.


Birth control is not foolproof. In fact, here's a chart of the failure rates of each type:
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/reproduction/the_buddy_system_effectiveness_rates_for_backing_up_your_birth_control_with_a_s

Also, when you face the very real risk of having to nourish a damned unwanted human being inside your abdominal cavity for nearly a year, and then push it out of one of the most sensitive areas of your anatomy / have it cut out of you while STILL CONSCIOUS in a fairly high-risk surgery, and then be faced with either a) 18+ years of raising a human being you had no desire to bring into this fucked hellscape of a world OR b) Put it into a cold, uncaring and utterly broken adoption system, then maybe, just maybe I'll take you a little more seriously. (That's a lie - I equally despise antichoice sentiment from women as well as men.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 26, 2013, 08:00:51 pm
I know birth control doesn't work all the time, but I was talking about the fact that people *don't* use it sometimes.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 26, 2013, 10:39:50 pm
@Birth control: I'd like to see more male birth control in existence, since honestly I'm not 100% sure if I'd want to have kids or not, and am sometimes uncomfortable with the thought of being capable of getting someone pregnant .___.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 26, 2013, 11:09:02 pm
@leaf: define "perfect life"? cause there are plenty of people out there who wish they hadn't been born.

@bells: the very idea of being poked and prodded in that way is enough to send me into a crippling mental freak out for days, so i support that movement to get the pill without strings attached.

EDIT: [spoiler]relevant to this discussion
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 27, 2013, 01:53:40 am
Plunder and pillage their cities, take all their riches and women! No amount of birth control can stop the mighty viking horde from multiplying! EVEN OUR SPERM HAVE AXES!!!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 27, 2013, 02:46:31 am
nej, is that a statement of intent? oh myyyyyyyyy.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 27, 2013, 03:31:33 am
Statement of intent? More like statement of historical event.
I already did it and nobody noticed
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 27, 2013, 03:34:13 am
wait, i'm pregnant? WE'RE ALL PREGNANT!? .__.


well, at least my kids will kick some ass. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 27, 2013, 03:43:55 am
I CAME IN THE NIGHT, I CAME THROUGH THE WIRE
I CAME WITH MY MIGHT, I CAME WITH MY FIRE
I CAME OUT OF SIGHT, A GHOSTLY WIGHT
TO COME INSIDE EVERYONE I CONSPIRE
AND NOBODY KNOWS HOW I DID IT
NOBODY KNOWS HOW I KNOCKED THEM UP
I DID IT WHEN THEY WERE DOWN AND OUT
I DID IT 'TIL THEY WERE ALL CREAMED AND BLOUT
SOON THERE'LL BE DEMONSPAWN BECKONING FRIGHT
AS THE NIGHTWANDERER'S LAUGHTER HAUNTS THE NIGHT.

I don't write slashfics, I write POETRY
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 27, 2013, 08:33:19 am
Yeah I haven't really anything to say on Birth control,
Honestly if you want to use it, use it.
If you don't, you don't have to.
I see sterilization as a better choice, if of course you know that you never want to have kids.


My only qualms are with the eventual reproduction. I firmly believe that everyone should at least have a chance to decide for themselves whether or not they want to live, even the unborn.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 27, 2013, 10:58:12 am
fair enough. tbh i support people's views if they think everyone should choose for themselves. :\

@nej: oh NOOOOOOOOES. guess i should think twice about having you sleep in the same room if you come back over. .__.
also, i'd like to see this "poetry".
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 27, 2013, 01:30:27 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on March 27, 2013, 08:33:19 amMy only qualms are with the eventual reproduction. I firmly believe that everyone should at least have a chance to decide for themselves whether or not they want to live, even the unborn.


Ignoring the fact that the embryos / fetuses can't decide anything, since they have approximately the same self-awareness faculties as a potted cactus, I can respect the rights of others to be anti-abortion as long as they ALSO respect the rights of people to be pro-choice and understand that abortion needs to remain legal for very important health / safety reasons.

For instance, Vice President Joe Biden is a good example of this. He claims to be personally pro-life on religious grounds, but also says that he respects the rights of people to be pro-choice or seek abortions and would never attempt to outlaw the procedure.

There are many reasons why abortion needs to remain legal, not least of which being that outlawing abortion absolutely does NOT stop people from getting them - it only makes it difficult and dangerous. Abortion has been happening since the beginning of human society - very likely before then, even, considering that many species of animal have the ability to induce miscarriage (horses come to mind, I've read that in wild horse bands if there's any sort of pack mix-up and a mare is pregnant with a "beta stallion's" foal, the other horses will kick and beat that mare until the fetus miscarries) - and has gone through various legal / social statuses. For example, until the Middle Ages the Catholic Church was A-OK with abortion on grounds that a fetus didn't gain a soul until "the quickening", the point at which the mother first felt the fetus move.  Only later did they decide upon a "the soul is implanted at the point of conception" doctrine, which made abortion a sin under Church law. Or another example, abortion was legal in the early United States until the point of "quickening", and only began to be outlawed by various states in the 1880s.

There's generally nothing that can stop a person who doesn't want to be pregnant from (making an attempt at) ending their pregnancy. Beatings, physically forcing the fetus out with external pressure, consuming poison, forcing things inside the uterus and other methods too graphic to mention here were all used, and as one can surely infer, many people were badly injured or killed in the process. And this wasn't just something that occurred in the "old days" -  up until the legalization of abortion in Roe v. Wade in 1973, people were dying every day from unsafe abortions, regardless of age, wealth or social standing. Here's an excellent but chilling account of pre-Roe abortions (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/09/way-it-was), it's disturbing but absolutely worth a read. (People need to be aware of what it was like back then - in the same way that we should be aware of what slavery was like, of the displacement and killing of native groups by colonial and imperial settlers, the realities of the Holocaust and other genocides, and other sickening injustices throughout history.)

Abortion is ancient and very ingrained into human society - to a point where the desire to be rid of unwanted pregnancies likely a part of our NATURE as humans, as real as the urge that many people feel to bear and nurture (wanted) children. There will be no changing that - only making it more (or less) difficult or dangerous.

In short, people have the right to be anti-choice, but they also have to realize that abortion won't be going away - not even if it's made illegal - and that harassing pro-choice people will no more effect change than pissing will put out a forest fire. Don't like abortion? Don't have one. But don't assume to know the circumstances of those having abortions, or pass judgement on them for having a legitimate, legal and millennia-old medical procedure.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 27, 2013, 01:31:57 pm
Quote from: Bella on March 27, 2013, 01:30:27 pm

Ignoring the fact that the embryos / fetuses can't decide anything, since they have approximately the same self-awareness faculties as a potted cactus, I can respect the rights of others to be anti-abortion as long as they ALSO respect the rights of people to be pro-choice and understand that abortion needs to remain legal for very important health / safety reasons.


I was aware of this when I said it. People will do what they want, and what they have to do.
And what about the morning after pill? That would be better than an abortion if caught in time, seeing as the embryo wouldn't even be one yet, just a small cluster of cells. But there is a big difference between a potted cactus and fetus.

While a potted cactus will never have that level of intelligence, if the fetus is left to mature and grow, it will. If that was the case it would be perfectly fine to kill new born's up to six months old, or maybe even later since I didn't start to form memories until I was at least two.

Regardless to the slight contradiction, my earlier statement stays the same.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 28, 2013, 12:39:49 am
eventually we'll have developed implant chips that will alert a woman to her pregnancy when it happens, and that same tech will allow her to keep it or discard it as it happens. in the meantime, abortions~
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 28, 2013, 08:58:13 am
I'm not so crazy about our bodies being replaced with microchips and stuff. Pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and I think people should be able to keep or abort the baby naturally. But hey, technology is advancing, and it's not really my choice, is it?

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 28, 2013, 09:17:08 am
nope
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 28, 2013, 12:33:26 pm
my statement was more metaphorical. but yes, i could see us advancing to that point.

and what the hell do you mean "abort the baby naturally"?? we're not nymphs, dude, we can't get pregnant/un-pregnant at will.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 28, 2013, 01:09:48 pm
I'm now thinking of the scuttle fish.

They can choose whether or not they get pregnant.

new topic, DNA modification.
Yes       or        No?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 28, 2013, 01:31:26 pm
for the large part, i'm for it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 28, 2013, 01:55:04 pm
genetic modification to make the carrying parent able to abort the pregnancy just like a nymph or choose to allow pregnancy just like a scuttle fish.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 28, 2013, 02:14:35 pm
@Choco: Without the use of microchips (. )_(.)?

Yes, DNA modification. I'm tired of these stupid flamewars over birth control and sexism.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 28, 2013, 02:17:06 pm
@leaf: it's still not natural to abort a pregnancy.

And I don't think this is really a flame war, more of a long winded debate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 28, 2013, 02:38:47 pm
I guess. Since alot of drama keeps happening and junk maybe I'll ignore this thread.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 28, 2013, 02:51:35 pm
Or we could try some other topic that doesn't slip back into that.
And I could try not to start it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 28, 2013, 03:01:09 pm
What you said.

By the way, is anybody up for talking about SOPA/PIPA?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 28, 2013, 03:42:25 pm
yes, but after dna modding. also, don't play the young card after you've tried to deny it all this time. can't have it both ways, dude~

also, by the "natural" thing, i mean that technically an abortion isn't a natural process, it is induced through outside influences. we can't induce one as a bodily function, like burping or going to the bathroom. (sorry for that analogy.)

@DNA: modification is the wave of the future. (lol 80's comment) with modding DNA, we can get rid of illness, deformity, and even enhance life (both for cosmetic and non-cosmetic purposes). we can make food resistant to heat or cold, so we'll be solving world hunger. and if we can modify our life systems even further, we can colonize the ocean floor and go into space without the need for oxygen or pressure regulation. science fiction won't be fiction for long.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 28, 2013, 11:11:07 pm
DNA-based modification is progress on a simple and natural level. We aren't breaking the bonds of our species - we're just speeding up its evolution and pointing it in the direction we want.

Physical modification on the other hand...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 29, 2013, 08:08:37 am
I would have like to have been born as a Zora
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 29, 2013, 11:03:39 am
i'd like to be able to tweak the genes of my future kids so they're born with anime hair. that'd fucking rock.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 29, 2013, 11:06:18 am
If I could tweak the genes of my future kids, if I have kids, I'd like to remove the "really bad acne" gene that I unfortunately inherited from mom :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 29, 2013, 11:10:33 am
DNA modification, Is it okay to do?
A lot of science fiction movies make a point of explaining the horrors of such, see splice.
I guess what I'm asking is how mush is too much? Or is there/should there be a line?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 29, 2013, 11:21:45 am
see, that line will be drawn for us when the time comes. either by the ones modified or the scientists doing it. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 29, 2013, 11:22:03 am
Gah - I wrote up a HUGE post about why pregnancy is exactly pretty or easy, complete with gory anatomical detail and cited sources, but the damned server herpderped as I was posting it and ate the whole thing. -____-;;; So I'll give Leaf the abbreviated version  (while, very likely saving y'all from vomiting and myself from a perma-b& of some sort, since I'm not going to have to use the words "ripped from scrotum to anus" not once, but TWICE, as a way of conveying the concept of episiotomy and obstetric tearing to people who have penises. Consider yourselves lucky...)

Quote from: LeaflameSD on March 28, 2013, 08:58:13 am
Pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and I think people should be able to keep or abort the baby naturally.


I'm willing to bet a majority of people who have actually been pregnant would disagree, if not be outright offended by this statement. It's true that some people have easy pregnancies, but no pregnancy is without discomfort (morning sickness is incredibly common, as is severe constipation, urinary incontinence, and a whole myriad of hormonal bullshitery), and other pregnancy complications can be debilitating, life-threatening, or outright fatal without quick treatment. I actually wrote up a Tumblr post on this subject awhile back; you can see the whole thing here (http://boryaaa.tumblr.com/post/37517547308/pregnancy-is-not-a-disease), but here's an excerpt of my portion:

QuoteAlso, OP, I'm sure any person who's gone through pre-eclampsia or eclampsia, gestational diabetes, hyperemesis gravidarum, diastasis recti, ectopic pregnancy or obstetric fistula would take offense at the idea that pregnancy is "The most beautiful biological process a human being can possibly have".

Heck, even people who've gone through "typical" pregnancies - with "typical" pregnancy problems like morning sickness, incontinence, gingivitis, whole-body skin rashes (google "chloasma" or "pruritic urticarial papules" if you're curious and don't have a particularly weak stomach), permanent major physical, hormonal and/or emotional changes- would probably be a little upset at your characterization of pregnancy as a "beautiful" biological process.*

(*This is to say nothing of all the invasive and expensive medical tests needed to maintain a healthy pregnancy, and nothing of the birth, which, in addition to the "typical" horrors of spinal anesthesia, hours or possibly days of labor and having to push another human being out of their uterus and through their cervix and vagina, might include the special horror of episiotomy or bad reactions to pain medication or anesthesia.)

So yeah, pregnancy isn't a disease, but it opens the door to a whole host of them, some life-threatening, some merely terribly uncomfortable and potentially-debilitating. By denying this fact you deny the reality of every person who's ever gone through a pregnancy - wanted or unwanted, carried to term or not.


Also, it bothers me when people who are physically incapable of being pregnant make statements about how beautiful (or easy, or natural, etc.) pregnancy is, even if you've had close friends or loved ones who've been through seemingly easy or happy pregnancies. To use a somewhat inaccurate (but still the best I could come up with) analogy, I'd never suggest that African Americans lead easy, racism-free lives just because my black friends seem about as happy as my white friends, and I've never actually seen any of them be accosted by racists, been faced with threats of violence or had slurs thrown at them, etc. I'd never assume anything about their lives - I've never led life as any of them, much less as an African American person.

Quote from: NejinOniwa on March 28, 2013, 11:11:07 pm
DNA-based modification is progress on a simple and natural level. We aren't breaking the bonds of our species - we're just speeding up its evolution and pointing it in the direction we want.

Physical modification on the other hand...


I'm with Nej here, living organisms have been selecting traits that they wish to see in their offspring since the beginning of life on earth - that's the whole point of evolution.

Though I'm a bit reticent as to whether or not genetically modifying offspring is a good idea. On one hand, it could serve a very real and useful purpose, saving children from inheriting genetic diseases, deformities, and so forth. On the other hand, I just KNOW some dinguses will get a hold of the technology to enforce strict beauty ideals upon their kids. "Ah, yes, I want my son to be 6'2'', have lovely, light skin that tans well, a strong nose, crystal blue eyes, blonde hair, no freckles, no moles, a body that develops muscles well, and make him super-heterosexual as well" and "Let me have the female child, green eyes, thick blonde hair, little body hair, D-cup breasts, a feminine face, wide hips, 5'4'', clear skin, and, hm, how about a low sex drive too so we don't have to deal with the boy-crazy bullshit when she hits her teens. Oh! But give her strong mothering instincts, I've always wanted grandkids!"

In short, I do believe a line should be drawn between genetic modifications to treat disease, and genetic modification to pick certain physical and personality features. Though I think the latter could be used responsibly by some, it seems like it would be rife with abuse from parents who want their own little living Barbie and Ken dolls. -___-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 29, 2013, 11:33:13 am
@Bella: Indeed on the pregnancy bit. I read that on your Tumblr a while back

As for the DNA modding, yeah; going overboard to make sure you have a flawless Barbie doll of a child is way too much. With what I'd do, it's just save them the headache of having acne so bad that no over-the-counter treatments would work :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on March 29, 2013, 01:11:16 pm
What about sci-fi stuff, like wings or the ability to breath under water.
The kind of genes, and weather or not they're spliced from other organisms.
Weather or not that's wrong. We could effectively make super heroes/villains a reality.
And what about playing god, do you think it would blur the line between right and wrong?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 29, 2013, 01:38:03 pm
"Playing god" is a redundant term. Please don't use it, it only makes you look silly and ignorant.

Like I said, there's a difference between genetic modification and physical modification - which is exactly what we'd need to enact changes in our body structures more akin to what one might see in a tacky sci-fi episode. No, it's not simply "splice gene A from organism B to produce body part/function C" we're talking, and the amount of testing needed to viably and stably produce that sort of result would be way too expensive, tedious and bad PR-wise. It's not going to be done with gene tech any time soon.

Reg. the whole "flawless barbie doll" syndrome thing, I advise you to watch a movie called GATTACA, which very efficiently portrays the outcome of such a society. The Coordinator/Natural conflict of Gundam SEED is another depiction. Basically, it's a bloody minefield once we start going in that direction in any great amount. Genetic modification must be used responsibly to avoid a societal rift developing between modified and non-modified humans - just like creation of new lifeforms like AI's must be done very carefully and responsibly to avoid conflicts and societal rifts developing between them and the human race.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 29, 2013, 11:17:10 pm
i see it this way: i've never got along with the "normal" people anyway, so a gap developing between the "beautiful" people and the "ugly" people is just more fuel for my fire. plus, we'd all get the bonus of looking pretty WITHOUT gene modding. -w-

@pregnancy: god i'm not looking forward to it. but the damn maternal instinct in my brain won't shut up,  meaning whether i like it or not eventually i'm going to end up this way. it'll be turbulent, horrible, and once i'm done having kids i will never speak of it again. but it'll (sadly) happen.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 30, 2013, 09:52:47 pm
can't comment on pregnancy... I'm a Man Jim, not a Woman...! DNA modding... would be nice to help my progeny to avoid the chubby syndrome my family have... and Increasing Speed, strength, stamina, etc would be nice too..
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 31, 2013, 05:49:43 am
i can see overcoming predisposition to certain undesirable physical characteristics (easily burned skin, weak lungs, etc), but if we start turning everyone into athletes with big brains we're gonna have a race of superheros on our hands, and idk how to feel about that. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 31, 2013, 12:43:13 pm
just re,ember: with a great power comes the great responsability of doing the right thing while you enjoy yourself
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 01, 2013, 04:39:30 pm
indeed.


we need a new topic. what was that one a page or two ago.....SOPA! that was it.


yeah, that fucking sucked, i think everyone here at OSC when it came out agreed upon that. frankly, i admire the japanese model of things here, with grassroots efforts being part of what makes people famous. "i like your song, so i'm gonna use it for my video!" government intrusion shouldn't be a part of that.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 01, 2013, 05:07:04 pm
I think it was universally agreed across all sites I go to that SOPA was a bad idea; not just OSC, but GameFAQs and ThatGuyWithTheGlasses as well (In fact, Doug Walker, aka The Nostalgia Critic, was one of the most vocal people against it)

Granted, VCRs were nearly made illegal back in the '70s, due to "piracy". Obviously, that didn't last long; partially due to Mr. Rodgers for being one of the most vocal supporters of the VCR -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 01, 2013, 06:24:59 pm
SOPA, bad.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 01, 2013, 06:55:16 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on April 01, 2013, 05:07:04 pm
Obviously, that didn't last long; partially due to Mr. Rodgers for being one of the most vocal supporters of the VCR -w-


mr. rogers was fucking awesome. he was like everyone's extra grandpa. ^^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on April 01, 2013, 08:51:39 pm
I don't like the SOPA Seeing that I eat mostly with tortilla so the watery SOPA is hard to grasp...

And the attempt of the US Govt of make Internet theirs either
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 02, 2013, 02:57:31 pm
i barely get it. but agreed, sopa is bad.

hm, new topic.......


international politics. for example, if it were the early 90's and the civil war in bosnia was still raging, would you be supportive of outside influence from other countries coming in to break up the conflict, or should we just let it run its course, they'll work it out themselves?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 02, 2013, 03:48:23 pm
SOPA is bad, and the Government should feel bad for creating it.

And international politics...

tbh I don't think other countries would of even thought of going to Bosnia and Herzegovina, because the people/government wouldn't wanna make the conflict bigger and worse, I.E 'let it run it's course'.

I hope I said that right.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 02, 2013, 07:31:04 pm
Let everyone handle they're own problems, but if you some how get through into the shit storm go guns blazing!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on April 02, 2013, 07:33:43 pm
only a quote: "El respeto al Derecho Ajeno es la paz" "The respect to the foreign right is Peace"
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 05, 2013, 01:42:48 pm
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 05, 2013, 02:01:08 pm
I have this feeling Bella will approve of that pic :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 05, 2013, 09:46:25 pm
i know i agree with it. being preggers isn't some big miracle, it's just awkward and gross. sure, after a couple years or so you'll enjoy what happened, but sure as hell not when it's happening. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 06, 2013, 10:17:31 am
Robert Jordan: Always well-informed.
Just read through WoT book 11, a good part of which is Elayne suffering through random pregnancy bullshit...you know, aside from having to deal with a succession war, evil cultists and the world ending.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 06, 2013, 10:57:27 am
just look at the movie Children of Men. My Little Baby: Pregnancy is Chaos.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on April 08, 2013, 12:45:48 am
ok New Topic: Should the Teachers' Union have a say in the Matter of education?

I ask this because, besides the Telecom debate o; Teachers of the south Are Protesting regardless the Educative reform Which is law Already, which states that the teachers will be trained and tested, and if they fail the test they may lose their jobs, the Teachers of Guerrero and Oaxaca claim that the test shouldn't be a proof of unemployment, due to the different teaching environments in the country...

so I wanna know OSC'S point of view on this
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 08, 2013, 03:11:24 am
i think it depends on the issue. Unions used to be a great asset for workers, providing rights, negotiating things, and just all-around providing protection. nowadays, this privilege is being abused by people barely skilled enough to be called by their chosen trade. lazy, incompetent, surly, all traits ignored by unionizing. (not saying ALL unions are corrupt, just some)

if it's them having a say on educating the students, yes, of course. if it's a matter of determining competency among staff, then no. a country should be uniform in its education standards, since if one child learns the sky is blue, and the other learns it's red, then who is right? whose fault is it for the child being wrong? what if one moves to an area where the population believes the other?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 08, 2013, 05:03:23 am
FACT: The sky changes color based on time of day. Red and blue are both viable alternatives.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 08, 2013, 12:34:14 pm
true. but a midday sky is not blood red. teaching a child that would be the fault of the teacher.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 12, 2013, 10:24:03 am
New topic, umm... how about marriage.
Is it nessesary or not, should it be a life goal or an option if you want it? Go.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 12, 2013, 11:04:13 am
marriage fits for some people and it doesn't for others. i think staying together, whether married or not, is more important. but if people want to get married, no matter their race/orientation/religion, go for eet. it's your life, after all. ^^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 12, 2013, 11:50:03 am
What Kari said?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 12, 2013, 01:50:06 pm
okay... but, what's the point? I mean, now a days if you on your own your better off.
Unless you're married or common law married, there's no shared healthcare, and well what I trying to get at is why should it be anything worth it seeing the added expenses for both sides.

(I don't want it to seem like I'm against marriage.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 12, 2013, 04:05:49 pm
companionship? splitting the financial burden? if there's a child involved? also, common law marriage occurs after living together for at least 7 years, so to get to that point you'd need to be together. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on April 12, 2013, 04:32:09 pm
I'm pro-marriage and pro-marriage equality. Although I think a committed, loving relationship between two unmarried people is just as valid as a committed and loving married relationship, there are a number of benefits given to married people that I think makes marriage a more appealing option.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 20, 2013, 12:29:10 am
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/134672-harvard-cracks-dna-storage-crams-700-terabytes-of-data-into-a-single-gram
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/151696-ibm-on-track-to-building-artificial-synapses
http://thenewamerican.com/tech/computers/item/14980-president-obama-wants-to-get-inside-your-brain
http://www.groundzeromedia.org/short-circuit-burn-out-your-dead/

And so on! Biological technology. Tech and developments in the field that aims to get in under your skin, literally. There are many implications and many possibilities for these sorts of tech.

What do you guys think about biotech in general?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 20, 2013, 01:36:34 pm
if it can extend my life and/or plug my subconscious into the internet, i'm all for it. if it can save lifes, fuck yeah. if it does ANYTHING besides just experiment on animals for the sake of "research", bring it on.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 20, 2013, 02:27:11 pm
I think biotech is pretty interesting.
The money it could make, lives that you can save, it's just going to get bigger and bigger over the years.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 20, 2013, 10:58:37 pm
Opinion of Dustiiwolf, if you have one. go.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 20, 2013, 11:15:47 pm
How is whining about past members a "hot topic"...?

This ain't a dang grafitti wall, miss. -_-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 20, 2013, 11:43:43 pm
F you.

and considering the debate going on in relationships, i figured it went better here.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 21, 2013, 12:07:45 am
Badmouthing history is something we'd be better of without at all, miss. And please keep track of who you're angry at, for hells' sake.

Bah, whatever.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 21, 2013, 01:28:36 am
Come on, calm down. At least you don't have to see him in person 5 days a week.
he is pathetic in real life, he really is.

But lets change the topic a little shall we?

Beliefs, free gain or nuisance.
At what point do you stop talking.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 21, 2013, 01:46:20 am
dude, that's not the same guy i was talking about. the dustii here doesn't even live in the same region as you.

@nej: i say "f you" because you're getting fricken' snarcky with me. "this isn't a graffiti wall huehuehue" i'm not bitching, i was trying to move what has become a debate into the proper fucking thread. but i guess i got cut off anyway, so who the fuck cares.


when you're fighting a losing battle in terms of beliefs, it's time to shut the fuck up.
but when you're being cut off when you're not even saying much, then it's time to scream it the fuck louder, cause come on people, i'm not even trying to "badmouth" the guy here per se. you all started voicing your opinions of the guy (WHICH TURNED INTO A DEBATE, IN THE WRONG THREAD, COME ON), so what am i supposed to do? keep my mouth shut because OTHER PEOPLE *THINK* i HATE the guy? i have my reasons, how about you let me fucking say them.


[/rant]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 21, 2013, 02:41:34 am
You could just rant them to me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 21, 2013, 03:23:40 am
Writing in caps = being mad, unless context is really clear otherwise. Don't do it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Pitkin on April 21, 2013, 04:27:18 am
Opinions on site members - former or current - do not belong to Hot Button Topics. It's not politics, religion or comparable. If anywhere, the Relationships or Topicless threads are appropriate for them, and even there outright bashing is not welcome.

Keep it civil. Personal problems between people can be taken care by Private Messages, by angry Skype calls or by a duel in the dawn. Mind you, I'm sleeping until noon so not available for the latter.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 21, 2013, 08:50:36 am
Well that escalated quickly...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on April 21, 2013, 12:30:04 pm
Quote from: Pitkin on April 21, 2013, 04:27:18 am
Opinions on site members - former or current - do not belong to Hot Button Topics. It's not politics, religion or comparable. If anywhere, the Relationships or Topicless threads are appropriate for them, and even there outright bashing is not welcome.

Keep it civil. Personal problems between people can be taken care by Private Messages, by angry Skype calls or by a duel in the dawn. Mind you, I'm sleeping until noon so not available for the latter.


Hear hear. I'm deeply uncomfortable talking about anyone here (former or active) outside of mentions of conflicts I had with them, things I like about them, etc. Certainly not full critiques of their character.

For the record, I like all OSCers. Granted, some (most?) have done things I've found annoying, myself included. But I'll always have respect for anyone who finds and joins this site in the first place. 

Moving on then: Have we ever talked about cursing / swearing?

I swear like a sailor online, but I'm far less pottymouthed offline. I basically refuse to curse in front of "adults" / older people.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 21, 2013, 12:40:45 pm
My mom, given her background, is very very anti-swearing (Or "cussing", as people in the south say). Like, a simple "damn" in front of her is enough to trigger her :\

As for me, while I occasionally use swear words in conversation, I typically avoid them in more public locations, and use them rarely in my stories (Only when I feel using it adds emphasis to what is being said). Although I don't use them often, myself, I don't have a problem with those that do; after all, I do enjoy watching the Angry Video Game Nerd, and swearing is one of his trademarks.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 21, 2013, 01:08:36 pm
[spoiler]Finally! *phew* I thought this thread was going to crash and burn...[/spoiler]
I don't really swear in public, around people, family, or just outside the internet for that matter.

I fucking hate some people who fucking go fucking overboard with their fucking swearing just fucking because they fucking find it so fucking funny that they think they have a fucking right to fucking abuse the English fucking language. All in fucking all,

Yeah. One thing I wouldn't recommend is to swear in front of people who get easily offended.


Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 21, 2013, 04:36:40 pm
[spoiler]for the record, "opinions about ____" mostly translates into people's thoughts on the incident and what could have been done to prevent it/the aftermath/etc. but fine, paint me as the bad guy here. >>; [/spoiler]

swears are just words with a bad name. at one point Humbug and Bohunk were swear words, but these days they may be considered humourous. while i just read that F*** and S*** were used as swears since the 1700's, these days they're becoming more and more commonplace, and thus more accepted. tbh, i could care less what other people think about me anyway, so i swear when i feel like it. the only times i hold my tongue is in front of little kids (12 and under) and elderly people (70ish and older). i doubt i'd swear in front of a nun, but well, every nun i've seen has been elderly anyway.

@swears in writing: i write in swears as the story calls for it. let's take Ace, for an example here. Ace is the leader of a 20's-type gang, so being a gang boss, he's known to have a rougher tongue than, say, a student council member. that's not to say he works completely blue, however; considering he's still a nice guy, he doesn't really drop any F-bombs. but words like "damn" and "hell" are just slang to him. (his catchphrase is "What Deh Hell?!" for fuck's sake. xD )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on April 22, 2013, 01:23:49 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on April 21, 2013, 12:40:45 pm
My mom, given her background, is very very anti-swearing (Or "cussing", as people in the south say). Like, a simple "damn" in front of her is enough to trigger her :\

I hear the terms cussing/cursing/swearing used interchangeably around here, so I'm curious if it's a term that originates from the South.
But yeah, I can't imagine living in that environment while still immersing yourself in online culture. I'd accidentally slip a curse in by virtue of being exposed to that language all the time.

Quote from: LeaflameSD on April 21, 2013, 01:08:36 pm
I fucking hate some people who fucking go fucking overboard with their fucking swearing just fucking because they fucking find it so fucking funny that they think they have a fucking right to fucking abuse the English fucking language. All in fucking all,

As I've mentioned before, I went to an all boys high school. Most of them who spoke like that weren't doing it to be funny, it's just how they normally spoke. (Granted, this quoted sentence would have been overboard, and would have been taken as comedic) Still, a big part of it is the environment they grew up in.

Oh, as for me, I don't curse all that often, but I have no qualms doing so. IRL, more often than not it'll just come out as a slip of the tongue. Many are surprised if I curse, especially if they only knew the "goody-two-shoes" side of me. And many only have that image of me. A nice, pure(hah) kid that never does anything wrong. Online, I have more control when I curse, and it's usually only there to highlight the emotion I'm trying to convey.

My current cursing in real life is a remnant of the fact that cursing in regular conversation was normal in my high school. Call it code-switching for an all-male environment, if you will. In college, it was less intense, but since the engineering school is at least 70-80% male, the casual cursing continued somewhat.

Again, environment. My cursing has toned down a lot more since, but it's still there.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 22, 2013, 02:34:07 pm
swearing is not really a "bad" thing per say, all it is is time and place. You gotta know when.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 22, 2013, 03:01:23 pm
just like it's not okay to show your tits to a class of third graders, it's not okay to curse at them either. there's a time and a place for everything. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 22, 2013, 03:06:05 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on April 22, 2013, 03:01:23 pm
just like it's not okay to show your tits to a class of third graders, it's not okay to curse at them either. there's a time and a place for everything. -w-

Hear hear.

I don't like how my little sister is swearing at 2 though ;.__.
It's because my brothers and cousins curse around her and junk.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 22, 2013, 03:08:13 pm
that's how i got started, actually, my cousins and parents and uncle all swore like sailors. they got all shocked when i started doing it too, but these days it's just a part of language. i don't even notice it anymore.

though tbh 2 is a bit young. please don't let her end up like one of my cousins, whose first word was "fuck". :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 22, 2013, 06:15:45 pm
Well...

I went to visit my clone once when he was doing an exchange year in Minnesota. From what I've heard of him, his host remembered me as "the guy who swore all the time", among other things. I mean, I probably swear more than the average swede, too, but even newspapers are foul-mouthed in this fair country. There's really not much taboo about it, save for with some very very old people. AND the churchy types, I guess, but those are a rare breed these days...

So yeah. By virtue of being a viking, I swear a lot, regardless of language. It's in the blood, I guess.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 22, 2013, 08:17:21 pm
WHOO ANOTHER REASON TO INVOKE MY SWEDE BLOOD
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 25, 2013, 01:30:30 pm
http://jezebel.com/principal-protects-star-athlete-from-pesky-rape-allegat-479161799 (http://jezebel.com/principal-protects-star-athlete-from-pesky-rape-allegat-479161799)
Read this and tell me you're not PISSED THE FUCK OFF!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 25, 2013, 01:42:57 pm
i want to find someone to punch and scream "TAKE THAT, ASSWAD!!" much the way peter griffin punched a kid and say "TAKE THAT, MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE!!"

><;;;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 25, 2013, 02:04:23 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on April 22, 2013, 03:08:13 pm
though tbh 2 is a bit young. please don't let her end up like one of my cousins, whose first word was "fuck". :\

It's too late ;0_0;

And I skimmed through that article, and what the principle is asking for the victim to do is totally unacceptable.
Why put a girl at risk just because you have a star basketball player on the school team? >.>

Is it weird that I didn't react to this AT ALL, even though it does urk me?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 25, 2013, 02:43:00 pm
Not really, it's a good sign that you felt something.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 25, 2013, 03:15:12 pm
Wow
*facedesk*

I hate it when justice is thrown aside because sports are "more important" in their eyes >_<
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 25, 2013, 05:16:01 pm
this is why i'm not a sports person.

@leaf: as long as it irked you, it's okay. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 25, 2013, 05:39:17 pm
Eh, I play the occasional soccer and basketball game.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 25, 2013, 08:47:30 pm
the sports i like to engage in are swimming (non-competitive),
floor hockey (very fucking competitive)
and badminton (ALLOW ME TO RAM THAT BIRDIE DOWN YOUR MOTHERFUCKING THROAT).

as for other sports or watching sports, i don't usually partake. though i sometimes stare at the tv when my grandpa has golf on. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 25, 2013, 09:50:54 pm
Considerable urge to throw up what little amount of food there's left in my stomach.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 25, 2013, 09:59:02 pm
and this is why nej is an example of what man should be. thus, he will scorch the earth and reseed the population in his image~
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 25, 2013, 10:52:51 pm
Gods help us if all men were like me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 26, 2013, 01:02:29 am
i pictured it as being a little like metalocalypse when i said that.... -w-;

(that, and i also just pictured you sprouting incubus wings and flying across a hellfire'd globe, building your harem overtime to repopulate the earth)

(i should be making this into a story, i swear)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 26, 2013, 08:11:20 am
DO IT!!
I-I'd like to read it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 26, 2013, 10:44:22 am
somehow i think i'd have even better luck if i drew it. if all else fails i can make the story with illustrations. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 26, 2013, 11:54:30 am
SAILOR MOON SUCKS
/walks out calmly
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 26, 2013, 11:55:24 am
your opinion, good sir. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 26, 2013, 11:59:04 am
I don't like Naruto.
[spoiler]Anyone feel like doing age stereotypes? :\[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 26, 2013, 12:01:26 pm
[spoiler]but i wanted a shitstorm :/[/spoiler]
I feel sad now, I went to 4chan for a while and got used to the rage and now I'm expecting too much -_-

Fun thing though, I have never even watched SM at all. Bar like, one or two random dubbed episodes in my very early youth that I caught glimpses of, my exposure to it has been practically nonexistent.

I just have this random aberrant hatred for it anyway :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 26, 2013, 12:04:37 pm
[spoiler]That's my job though *shot*[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 26, 2013, 12:25:21 pm
@Nej: I'd give it a shot. The DIC dub sucked, even if it has some nostalgic value for me
Now, if you want a crappy anime, Kirby: Right Back At Ya; which aside from a decent beginning and ending, 75% of the series was physically painful to watch due to how moronic it was >_<
Plus, no Adeleine; my favorite character in the games. Automatic failure

@Leaf: About the only thing that comes to mind with age stereotypes are the people I used to have problems with at garage sales; who seemed to profile me based solely on age. Like, they'll jump to the conclusion there's no conceivable way someone who's in his early 20s could be interested in a(n) [Amiga \ DEC workstation \ Sega Saturn \ Other tech made prior to Xbox 360] because obviously I only want the absolute latest, and anything less is shit. It usually surprises them when they learn I genuinely like older technology; although I have that problem less since I go to garage sales alone (They see I drive an old SUV, and don't judge me like they do when I arrive in mom's car or the Dart I had)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 26, 2013, 01:58:02 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on April 26, 2013, 12:01:26 pm
[spoiler]but i wanted a shitstorm :/[/spoiler]
I feel sad now, I went to 4chan for a while and got used to the rage and now I'm expecting too much -_-

Fun thing though, I have never even watched SM at all. Bar like, one or two random dubbed episodes in my very early youth that I caught glimpses of, my exposure to it has been practically nonexistent.

I just have this random aberrant hatred for it anyway :3


so like me with madoka.

@ageism: i have a good arguement for this but i can't remember any of it so i'm gonna call back later.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 26, 2013, 04:36:24 pm
Well, I suppose, except that Madoka is a recent production with modern quality and of reasonable length (13 episodes + 1 or 3 eventual movies), while Sailor Moon is bloody ancient and too big for me to even start thinking about giving a shot. I know, call me a faggot, but I really value my 720p mkv's.

Without getting into arguments about the shows themselves, you'll have to agree that Madoka is far easier to physically watch - one, no clawing out eyes, two, it's actually theoretically possible to watch the entire series in one night if you wanted to.

Honestly, if you give Madoka a fair chance, I'd be willing to check out the SM reboot this summer. I do not expect it to be able to keep my interest for more than 3 episodes or so, but it is an honorably attempt.

Are you up to the challenge, minion?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 26, 2013, 05:00:48 pm
Sailor Moon isn't that big, when you stop and remember Dragon Ball Z is practically over 9,000 episodes long with seemingly 100+ movies @_@

EDIT:
Well, if you want to get more precise, the original Sailor Moon only has an evenly-rounded 200 episodes. By comparison, Dragon Ball Z has 508, Bleach has 366, and Doctor Who has 800+ and counting
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 26, 2013, 10:02:12 pm
i am up to the challenge but only if you let me watch the reboot first to determine quality. there still is the chance they could fuck it up. if you want to give yourself the abridged version, take a wiki walk through the pages, honestly; the mass amounts of filler CAN be a bit over-the-top at times. (it really falls into a monster-of-the-week format at first and if you're not a fan of some sort it can be off-putting.

i've been meaning to watch the OVA, let me give that a spin and if it's relevant i'll reccomend it to you. in the meantime, you might check out one of the movies. they're pretty good, if a bit less deep/dark than the R series and upward. :\ )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 29, 2013, 07:03:08 pm
Question, what do you think of people who take things too seriously.
Does it urk you, or does it not really matter to you.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 29, 2013, 08:17:44 pm
for me, it depends on the person and the thing in question. some people take things too seriously, some don't take them seriously enough. both irk me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on April 29, 2013, 09:59:37 pm
Agreeing with Kari. It all depends on what the topic in question is.

People treating relatively "trivial" subjects (for instance, favorite computer brand / OS / anime / movie / soda / dog vs. cat) as serious matters bugs me. I mean I don't mind debate over the merits / weaknesses of something, but when people start hating on other people just because, say, they use Linux while their OS of choice is Mac, I think that's petty and wrong.

Matters that are actually serious and impact on the lives of people (health, education, race and gender issues, poverty, etc.) should be treated as such. Even if I disagree, I can see why people would take these sorts issues "too seriously".
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 29, 2013, 10:24:35 pm
Indeed. I can't stand people who have to get into fights about trivial things like favorite video game console; like on the G4 boards eons ago, where people would be giving each other death threats because sweet mother of Multics they have a different opinion.

Now, I do understand taking actual serious topics seriously; like gender issues, healthcare, education, and the like. Those are major issues compared to, say, who was the best captain on Star Trek.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 30, 2013, 03:51:43 am
I'm with Choco on this one too.

All I need to say here is:
The Sonic fanbase is a perfect example of people who take things too seriously.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 30, 2013, 08:22:22 am
Cool, um... could we revisit some topics like IDK gun control?
Or how about,
Weed, Yes or No
@Leaf: don't rekindle an inferno.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 30, 2013, 08:30:10 am
Quote from: PentiumMMX on April 29, 2013, 10:24:35 pm
Indeed. I can't stand people who have to get into fights about trivial things like favorite video game console; like on the G4 boards eons ago, where people would be giving each other death threats because sweet mother of Multics they have a different opinion.

Now, I do understand taking actual serious topics seriously; like gender issues, healthcare, education, and the like. Those are major issues compared to, say, who was the best captain on Star Trek.

Yes, because all know Spock was the best captain
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 30, 2013, 10:12:04 am
what.. no takers?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on April 30, 2013, 10:51:43 am
@Leaf: Agreed. It's why, although I enjoy the Sonic games, I distance myself from most of the fandom :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 30, 2013, 10:57:53 am
@Pent: Yeah, hear hear.

Also Simon weed is an interesting subject.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 30, 2013, 12:52:11 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on April 30, 2013, 08:30:10 am
Quote from: PentiumMMX on April 29, 2013, 10:24:35 pm
Indeed. I can't stand people who have to get into fights about trivial things like favorite video game console; like on the G4 boards eons ago, where people would be giving each other death threats because sweet mother of Multics they have a different opinion.

Now, I do understand taking actual serious topics seriously; like gender issues, healthcare, education, and the like. Those are major issues compared to, say, who was the best captain on Star Trek.

Yes, because all know Spock was the best captain


AGREED, MASTER!

@simon: @guncontrol: controlling guns isn't going to stop violence. don't give them to kids or crazies. make background checks more stringent. gun shows should be for dealers only. yay guns! : D [/lol]
@pot: this is a bit of a double-edged sword for me, since while i support its usage for medical treatments, people who "just want to mellow out/have a good time" disgust me. also, if anyone smokes it around me or tries to get me to smoke it, they're liable to get dropped and curb-stomped by me. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 30, 2013, 12:56:13 pm
Drugs make you inefficient. Thus, taking them is inefficient, and should be avoided at all costs.

[/chamber]

Honestly though, drug use - no matter the kind - is to me much like the question of religion. Believing in a religious dogma that offers superficial explanations for unprovable things is like having a crutch. You can fall back on it if you're feeling weak in the legs and remain standing, but for someone who doesn't need the support to stay on his feet lugging it about all the time is horribly inefficient.
Much in the same way, having a stimulating substance to fall back on when your own mindset or senses aren't what you'd like them to be - be it alcohol to dull inhibitions, tobacco to reduce stress or amphetamine to increase awareness - may perhaps sound like a good idea, but when you regard the negative effects such substances have it becomes rather obvious that it's a foolish thing to do. Every beer you buy yourself, you pay not only in cash, but in brain cells. Every cigarette, you pay in time. Neither of those can be bought back.

It's a stupid waste of life to use drugs, no matter what type it is - and only if no other option is physically viable and available should one even consider it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 30, 2013, 01:38:02 pm
Snorting stuff up your nose seems puzzling to me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 30, 2013, 01:59:38 pm
@Nej: So church is tantamount to drug use is it, Christianity is if anything else one good way to live your life, if you cut out all the attachments and just live by the good principles, you can lead a rather successful life, and for those who have actually felt a response, well all we should do is encourage and let live and occasionally drop a few friendly invitations. Yes it helps when you're feeling down but its also an encouragement to do the right thing. As with anything there are rules that we are encouraged to follow, most of which everyone already follows. [spoiler]My god has been good to me, that's all I can say.[/spoiler]

@pot: considering the Evils of some of the other options and what some of them can do, IE prescription meds as well as illegal substances and legal ones like alcohol and cigarettes, weed has fewer if not any of the medical repercussions, at the same time I don't really want anything to do with it as it causes lethargy and drains money, I'm not really interested. Do I care what other people do? Nope.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 30, 2013, 02:09:39 pm
let's not get on a religion rant, here, people. nobody wins that war. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on April 30, 2013, 03:20:47 pm
Yes please, let's not start a shitstorm on topics like that.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on April 30, 2013, 03:28:26 pm
@Simon: I know you're biased on this point, not being very secular and all. So stop yelling and think about what I said for a second.

Yes, I think religion is equal to recreational drug use in terms of how useful or harmful it can be. Binging on alcohol can make you addicted, ruin your social life, leave you with liver problems and get you intoxicated enough to do something really stupid or dangerous - like kill people or harm yourself. Being overly religious - well, that'd make you addicted in the first place - can leave you with psychological problems, ruin your social life, and get you zealous and/or gullible enough to do something really stupid or dangerous - like kill people or harm yourself. The difference is that you're doing it in the Name of God instead of Because I'm Drunk Like A Horse, and the newspapers will call you a fanatic instead of a drunkard, which is - in my opinion - worse PR.

I'm not saying drugs OR religion are entirely devoid of positives. The social amplifier that is alcohol is, when properly used, very helpful in establishing relationships and affirming friendships, cultural stamps aside, if only because it makes you a lot less reserved in talking to people. Cannabis has its own benefits, as does tobacco. Religion is a great tool for guiding uneducated people to following common sense without a lot of effort or understanding needed. "Don't do bad stuff and God won't do bad stuff to you". It's just that I don't think the cost is worth the gain in either of the cases.

Drugs cost money and health. Religion costs faith, logic and time - and money, be it through taxes, donations or membership fees or whatever. I think that with the level of civilization and understanding of our world that humanity has achieved, we could easily cast away the crutch that is religion. We don't need it anymore - all it is, in my opinion, is a culturally bootstrapped remnant of a lesson in morals, that long ago were codified into law. And if a man breaks the laws of man, what is to stop him from breaking the laws of god?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on April 30, 2013, 07:18:33 pm
Okay, just saying, not gonna start a shit storm. >_>;
I was done as soon as I said it, yeah it can have detrimental affects but religion as well as weed can do good things too. Everything in moderation after all.

My intention was not to be yelling but even so, this is the thread for it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on April 30, 2013, 10:41:26 pm
religion gives me a sense of comfort that when i die something will happen, whether it be some form of afterlife or reincarnation. i'm already depressed. i don't need to think that when i die i'm just gonna become fertilizer. >>;

tbh though putting all your eggs in one basket (or in this sense, putting all your faith in one thing) is a surefire way to wind up with nothing. you gotta diversify. -w- (or, in the case of hanafuda, keep adjusting your strategy as things change.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 01, 2013, 12:15:52 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on April 30, 2013, 10:41:26 pm
religion gives me a sense of comfort that when i die something will happen, whether it be some form of afterlife or reincarnation. i'm already depressed. i don't need to think that when i die i'm just gonna become fertilizer. >>;

tbh though putting all your eggs in one basket (or in this sense, putting all your faith in one thing) is a surefire way to wind up with nothing. you gotta diversify. -w- (or, in the case of hanafuda, keep adjusting your strategy as things change.)


Even though I'm currently functionally-atheist (I've considered getting more involved in religion or spirituality [mostly for social reasons] but it's sooo much woooooooOOOOrrrrrrk) I agree with Kari. The way I see it, spirituality is a valid way to explain things which are metaphysical - outside the realm of the physical universe and scientific reasoning (for instance, what, if any, meaning life has, whether we have an immortal soul/life force, if there's an afterlife, if somebody / something initiated the creation of the universe, etc). Whereas science is how we figure out the workings of the physical universe - it shouldn't be used - or expected - to answer any questions about metaphysical things. I get pissed off when people try to drag religion into science or vice-versa, but as long as religion is only used to answer metaphysical questions and science is only used to examine the physical universe I don't see any harm.

For what it's worth, I've known/known of plenty of ignorant, irrational and bigoted atheists. I've known plenty of intelligent, accepting and scientifically-minded religious people. And stupid religious people and smart atheists. Generally, the smart folks have been the ones who have approached their religion / non-religion with moderation and common sense while the dumbasses have been at the "extremist" ends of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on May 01, 2013, 07:34:18 am
Extremists = Zealots. Zealotry is stupid. That's all.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 03, 2013, 07:43:41 pm
Now for a new topic, and this one could get some blood boiling so careful.

Gay Marriage now legal, Finally or fuck.

I was pretty much indifferent since the beginning but hey, now there are a lot of happy couples.
It just got easier for them to spend their lives together.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 03, 2013, 09:04:12 pm
FIN
A
LLY.

that is all.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 03, 2013, 09:27:19 pm
Agreed. I think it's great that more places are becoming accepting of it; regardless of what some people in the town I currently live in have to say on it
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 04, 2013, 12:04:29 am
Quote from: NejinOniwa on May 01, 2013, 07:34:18 am
Extremists = Zealots. Zealotry is stupid. That's all.


Yes. This. Agreed.

Everyone already knows that I'm pro-any-two-adults-who-want-to-be-married-being-married, so of course I support the decision to bring marriage equality to RI.

It's a relatively minor point but I'd like to say that while I get *why* "gay marriage" is such a popular term it annoys the hell out of me. It's not just gay people who benefit from being able to marry a person of the same sex - there are plenty of bi- and pansexual people with same-sex partners, people with transgender partners who have yet to be legally recognized as the gender they are, other people who don't necessarily identify as gay but for whatever reason have same-sex partners, etc. Marriage equality affects these people too.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 04, 2013, 12:30:04 am
we'd like to think it's a politically correct world, but the reality is that we always forget SOMEONE. until those groups become too big to be ignored (as the blacks/jews/native americans/gays did), we'll overlook them, though not on purpose.*

*bear in mind that i speak for the country here, not for myself, i have a few bi/pan/trans friends
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 08, 2013, 01:38:56 pm
In new news from Cleveland's horrific kidnapping case, neighbors are alleging that they called the police multiple times to the home where Ariel Castro and his two brothers held Michelle Knight, Gina DeJesus, and Amanda Berry hostage for ten years. Neighbors claim that even though their calls described chilling scenarios -- naked women on leashes crawling on all fours and women pounding on windows -- they were either ignored, or the police completed very cursory check-ins.

http://jezebel.com/police-visit-cleveland-house-of-horrors-several-times-494824408 (http://jezebel.com/police-visit-cleveland-house-of-horrors-several-times-494824408)

It's things like this that really piss me off. The fucking bastards and their sick twisted games. I hope they die in the smell of their own burning flesh.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And that gives me ideas for new debates:

!.) Fetishes Good or bad & why?

2.) Death penalty, should it be more torturous for people such as these?

3.)Or just rant.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 08, 2013, 05:44:06 pm
obvious revival is obvious

fetishes are the business of the people that have them. to call them "good" or "bad" is like saying it's "good" or "bad" to be gay, be a certain religion, or speak a certain language.

i wouldn't say "it should be more torturous", that just sounds creepy. it DOES make me roll my eyes that we're so concerned with "prisoner comfort" these days...if you deserve to die, you don't deserve to be comfortable. personally, i like the gas chamber and the electric chair.

tbh though i just read an article about a guy who got off death row after being there for 18 years. he didn't commit the crime he was accused of, he was just suspected of being "the leader of a satanic cult" because of the way he liked to dress. he and 2 friends spent over half their lives, nearly 2 decades waiting to die for something they didn't do, just because they looked a bit different.

while this doesn't change my view on the death penalty, it DOES wane my faith in the justice system. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 08, 2013, 05:49:29 pm
Crazy thing is, something really similar to this happened several years ago in California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard). Known sex offender kidnaps a child, something extremely suspicious is going on at his house yet none of the parole officers, cops, etc. who visit his house regularly (as a part of his parole conditions) EVER notice anything is amiss, he ended up having her imprisoned for 18 years in his back yard. I believe it was a UC Berkeley worker who finally noticed something was wrong and got the police after him. Sickening.

1) Fetishes - like any aspect of sexuality - are neither inherently good NOR bad. With very few exceptions, I think fetishes are just a part of a person's sexual (or sensual) tastes and can't be moralized, any more than you'd argue that a person who enjoys the taste of meat is better or worse than a person who likes vegetables.

I think there are some exceptions. I consider pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia (and any other fetishes that involve sex with non-consenting partners) extremely unethical, immoral and rightfully-illegal. But the vast majority of fetishes, if practiced within the bounds of safe, consensual, respectful sex, are absolutely fine.

2) I don't agree with the death penalty (honestly? I wish we had a work-camp system and could make scumbags like Ariel Castro do hard-labor for the rest of his life, that way he would get to suffer for decades to come AND contribute something [no matter how small] to society) but even if we did, I don't think I'd want a worse death for him. Death is bad, period (although, as i just said, some punishments are way WORSE than death), saying "should we have worse death penalties?" is like saying "should we firebomb AND nuke something?" That's already the ultimate act of punishment, adding anything else just makes it sadistic. And I don't believe that sadism / evil / hatred should be fought with more sadism / evil / hatred.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 08, 2013, 06:57:07 pm
two wrongs don't make a right. but since sadism itself is a fetish, i think a more appropriate phrase would be something like, "more sugar isn't gonna fix your diabetes." -w-

for the record, i don't consider necrophillia/pedophillia/beastiality a fetish, i consider it a paraphillia (ie: a psychological condition; something to be treated/punished), not something people should be doing. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 08, 2013, 10:30:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_704241&feature=iv&src_vid=bAADxvu7svM&v=SdtCEaxfT38 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_704241&feature=iv&src_vid=bAADxvu7svM&v=SdtCEaxfT38)
update on the Cleveland girls
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 08, 2013, 11:13:39 pm
I don't have much to add on the death penalty that hasn't already been brought up, but as for fetishes, it's all perfectly fine if it's handled reasonably (After all, I don't feel one person should force their fetishes onto someone else)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 08, 2013, 11:14:08 pm
or lack thereof. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 09, 2013, 09:56:49 am
http://jezebel.com/the-best-body-armor-wont-do-your-boobs-any-favors-497520559 (http://jezebel.com/the-best-body-armor-wont-do-your-boobs-any-favors-497520559)

http://jezebel.com/your-bra-is-actually-making-your-breasts-saggier-accor-472470230 (http://jezebel.com/your-bra-is-actually-making-your-breasts-saggier-accor-472470230)
Here is something to debate, though I do not intend to be a part of it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 09, 2013, 02:50:29 pm
the first one is obvious. the second one i didn't really see coming, but makes some sense, not that i'm going to throw mine away. but i might take that into account and pick up some pasties.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 09, 2013, 02:59:08 pm
I've heard the second one a few weeks back; and it makes sense

As for the first one, that is obvious that costume designers favor fanservice over functionality in armor for the ladies (see: chainmail bikinis)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 10, 2013, 08:07:46 am
I've got nothing by ways of debate topics so I'm just going to post articles I find.
http://jezebel.com/irritable-male-syndrome-wherein-dudes-feel-all-the-fee-498767105 (http://jezebel.com/irritable-male-syndrome-wherein-dudes-feel-all-the-fee-498767105)

QuoteIrritable Male Syndrome: Wherein Dudes Feel All the Feelings
Gosh, women and their messy emotions and crazy behavior while PMSing. What a womanly thing. But guess what?! Guys PMS, too. Joke's on you, dudes, because you can also feel crazy emotions and it sucks and can we please just hug and eat ice cream together?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2013, 11:13:25 am
don't do that, this topic was intended for debate. if there's no debate now there's no debate, don't spoil the topic with random crud. :\

I've heard of IMS before, though it was on KotH. as KotH has no history of lying, however, i'm inclined to believe in it and its causes. after all, low testosterone is a real medical condition. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 16, 2013, 01:54:42 am
hey guys, we finally have a new topic for debate:

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/sexy-merida-pulled-disney-backlash-181258013.html
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 16, 2013, 03:19:05 am
The choice in body type is odd, since she doesn't have curves like that in the movie, but her being drawn like that was thankfully more respectful than the hideous abomination that was a "skinny" Minnie Mouse; which likely had Walt Disney himself rolling in his grave (The article on that, for the curious (http://www.examiner.com/article/skinny-minnie-mouse-daisy-duck-draws-huge-controversy)). At least with Merida, it feels more close to the original.

I can definitely see the arguments one might have on how this could have a negative impact on some people; although people come in all shapes and sizes, society pushes "thin = best" onto everyone, which often leads to people feeling bad about their image. This is why I like seeing variety in body types in artwork and other mediums; it feels more realistic that way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 16, 2013, 08:37:53 am
They turned the epic tomboy, into a pretty prissy doll.
Dagnabit Disney, why can't you just leave the good things alone!?
Merida did not need a make over and if you even gave a damn about the personality YOU GAVE HER you'd know she didn't WANT one.

It wont do to have those sparkles when she is climbing that rock face!

I signed the petition to revert it by the way
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 16, 2013, 11:58:26 am
pent, that was the most eloquent response i have ever heard from you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDajqW561KM

(i mean that seriously, good show, man. -w-
and that minnie/daisy pic made me scream. o__o )

@simon: makeup isn't going to help you kick a bear's ass :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 16, 2013, 01:00:15 pm
I want to see her in Kingdom Hearts, NOT all sparkled up.

I've got an Idea for a topic now. Swearing.

Should it be free gain, should it be limited, Does it provide a level of unintellegence when it is over used?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 16, 2013, 02:53:20 pm
didn't we already cover swearing as a topic?


i judge people by the way they string together words, not the words themselves. i've been told i'm quite intelligent and i swear almost constantly. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 16, 2013, 03:15:19 pm
I'm not sure.

Maybe it's just me, but the use of too many swears in political articles or debates is somewhat unnecessary. I mean sure, they're good to prove a point or to express a momentary burst of anger, but to have it repeat over and over makes the piece seem like it was writen by an over entusiastic middle schooler who doesn't know where to place the swears or that too many diminishes the piece. As my chemistry teacher put it a few years ago, swears are used when vocabulary knowledge is low, 0f course limiting swears has a detrimental effects as well. And then there are those to think about who have such words as detrimental triggers to negative past events and the like.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 16, 2013, 07:58:17 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on May 16, 2013, 03:15:19 pm
political articles...writen by an over entusiastic middle schooler who doesn't know where to place the swears


you're assuming political articles are written by anyone else? :3

saying that people who use them don't have a wide vocabulary, however, that's just (fucking) rude. i happen to have a delicious library of words at my disposal, but calling someone a blundering effeminate clod is a LOT less effective than saying "you son of a bitch". gotta remember to cater to your crowd. -w-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 16, 2013, 08:44:04 pm
@Kari: Thanks for that. Amazing what I could come up with when writing a post at 1AM ^^;

Although we have gone over swearing before, I'll share my thoughts again. While I don't use them that much, I don't give a fuck if they like to swear or not :3
(Which, I do get a laugh at the sign hanging at the house of one of my dad's friends; which says "No damn profanity allowed" xD)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 17, 2013, 12:52:16 am
i don't consider "damn" profanity anymore. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 17, 2013, 10:09:50 am
@choco: But don't you find it hilarious when they don't understand what you said?
Besides I find it more amusing to insult someone with out swears or direct insults. I like to hide them, to make them think, and maybe it's just me, but too many swears just sound immature.

Example of what I'd like to say.(Not to you)
Go back to your previous activity you incessant blundering rube.
edit: Bad example I suppose.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 17, 2013, 10:55:48 am
to me that just sounds pretentious. but then, i understand what that means.

if your daily speech involves the words "incessant", "blundering", and "rube", then go for it, but if they don't normally come up in conversation then it just sounds like you're trying too hard. in effect, by using fancier speech, it actually backfires on the speaker, making them sound stupid. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 17, 2013, 12:14:51 pm
To me, using constant swears does not make one look as stupid as insisting that "dragged" is grammatically incorrect yet "that ain't no [item]" is -___-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 17, 2013, 05:32:20 pm
Although I think of curses as "seasoning" - that is to say, something that can add a bit of "spice" to ones' language if used correctly, but become overwhelming and distasteful if overdone - I think it's ultimately ALL about context and the language skill of the person involved. A good speaker or writer can work a lot of profanity into their language and have it still sound compelling and knowledgeable, while a poor writer/speaker may come off as "low-brow" or overwhelming if they attempt to use the same amount of profanity. Likewise, avoiding swear-words doesn't necessarily make a speaker or writer sound more intelligent - more polite, usually, but not more intelligent.

I don't believe that using / avoiding profanity makes a person sound dumber / smarter. Generally it's a matter of sounding less or more "cultured" or polite (respectively), and of course there are as many unintelligent people who are polite and well-mannered as there are rude idiots.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on May 20, 2013, 04:23:39 pm
Hey if you guys don't mind I have a topic for the thread:

People using others misfortune to gain likes on Facebook i.e someone using a cancer/AIDS/9-11 victim and saying like if you sympathize with their family etc etc etc
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 20, 2013, 04:32:19 pm
If they're genuinely trying to raise awareness or donations for a cause, that's okay.

If they *aren't* trying to raise awareness or money for a cause and are just posting about it to get views and likes, that's gross and wrong.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 20, 2013, 04:50:32 pm
If they actually provide info with the pictures on how to help whatever cause they're promoting (For instance, if the image is on AIDS research, including a link to donate to a charity that supports AIDS research and treatment), than it's fine, but most of the ones I run into do not have info on how to help the cause; making it feel like it's just an attention grab, or "slacktivism" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism), as some call it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 20, 2013, 11:12:15 pm
using another's pain to get yourself publicity is nothing new, but it's also nothing to be proud of. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on May 21, 2013, 04:17:53 am
I really hate these things (">_<)

Some people are so insecure that they have to use 9/11 victims, people dying, teen suicides and such just to get likes on Facebook? It's really dumb. I understand if it's to raise public awareness or it has ACTUAL INFO AND LINKS, or even if the family set up a memorial page or something, but if it's just another of those "Like dis if u cri everytim" sort of thing just to get likes and attention, then you should feel ashamed of yourself.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 21, 2013, 08:06:39 am
To regard such things as disrespectful, would be an understatement.

Is it unhealthy for children to be raised by a single parent?
http://www.care2.com/polls/vote?pollID=25841#comment_form (http://www.care2.com/polls/vote?pollID=25841#comment_form)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on May 21, 2013, 10:40:47 am
As long as the child is getting support and good parenting from their Mom/Dad, then I think it's OK.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 21, 2013, 11:27:18 am
I don't really think it matters, I came from a family that had both parents and I don't think I'm better off than anyone else. It really depends on the mental state of the parent(s) or guardian(s). After all, youth tend to follow suit to their care takers in the early years.

Two heads are better than one, but one can manage just fine.

Edit: I was "raised" half way by my parents and the rest was all group homes and foster care.
I turned out quite well considering.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 21, 2013, 11:52:56 am
i wish i only had one parent (my mum). i probably would have ended up happier and better adjusted that way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 21, 2013, 12:01:38 pm
I don't see a problem with single parents. Sometimes I think if mom was out of the picture when I was younger, I might be better off for it today :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on May 22, 2013, 09:58:56 am
What matters more - the things you are given, or the things you choose?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 22, 2013, 10:24:51 am
Well I guess that really depends.

Material Things

Things that are given.

They were free. Most of the time people treat things differently if they didn't cost anything, usually worse. But then when things are given they can have a level of sentimental value.

Things that are chosen.

They usually cost something to obtain. Most of the time when you have to pay for something you are protective of it. I am that way with my 3DS. You are more careful because if it were to break you'd be at a loss.

I'm gonna say the first one for the sentimental value aspect.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 22, 2013, 12:37:46 pm
i like it when people give me their old stuff, since it's resulted in A LOT of anime collectibles that i otherwise wouldn't have had access to. but i also like choosing since if i had a choice i'd get cash for my birthday instead of gift cards to stores i never shop at. :\

of the bought/gifted items though, i think the gifted have more value to me, but then again, it really boils down to the item. take, for example, my Vincent Valentine and Deidara plushies. Vincent was a gift, while i purchased Deidara from ebay. both are about the same size, both were about the same price (Deidara was $45, Vincent plushes go for roughly $50 online), both are soft and snuggly and i'd be completely devastated if i lost either. so in this case, buying vs gifting doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on May 22, 2013, 09:44:10 pm
Does the same hold true for names, given and taken?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 22, 2013, 09:48:36 pm
ik there's some deeper meaning there, but i'm not getting it.

names don't have as much significance to someone who is known by a name they don't know themselves anymore.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 23, 2013, 10:17:09 am
Well lets see, I do enjoy my name. As it links me to my past (not that that's a good thing).
I have four names that I use every once and a while.

The one I was born with Gabriel
My internet name Simonorged
My female counter part (usually used for games that have a choice between both genders) Alexsis
And Alex, for those who refuse to say my name correctly IRL.

I wouldn't say anyone of them are any better. Just that It's good sometimes to be hidden.


Did I misunderstand the question?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 29, 2013, 02:49:07 pm
Should parents have the right to refuse lifesaving medical procedures that doctors deem necessary for their children?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 29, 2013, 05:36:28 pm
if it goes against their religion, it goes against their religion, sorry kid. if it's due to cost, that's messed up, but i understand that difficult choice right there too. if they just don't want to, well, parent ribs might make good barbecue.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 29, 2013, 06:51:55 pm
If the child is dying of an illness (and not a trauma or injury) and is under the "age of reason" (however you define that, but basically whenever they develop a knowledge of life and death and are aware of their own mortality), then unfortunately, I kinda have to agree that it's up to the parents to consent to or refuse medical treatment. It sucks sometimes, but parents make a LOT of decisions that can impact their children's lives before they're old enough to object, and that's just the way life is.

However, if it's an accident scenario - say, the kid is in a car wreck and brought into the emergency room to be treated - then I'd say it's up to the doctors to treat the child, whether or not the parents consent to the treatment. Parents don't necessarily have the obligation to save their child's life, but I believe doctors should feel obliged to treat their patients no matter what.

On the other hand, if the child is old enough to be aware of their own mortality and WANTS to live, they should be able to seek treatment even if their parents don't consent to it. I think it's crazy that a minor would be refused, say, cancer treatment just because it's against their parents' morals, religious beliefs, etc. (Now, treatment refused due to monetary issues is a completely different issue ... I believe socialized medicine is a good idea and that medical care should be available to all people regardless of financial circumstances, but that's a whole debate for another time.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 29, 2013, 07:12:36 pm
hmmm.....*erases answer*copies off bella's test*
done. -w-

EDIT: http://news.yahoo.com/mother-newborn-sewer-present-rescue-065222137.html

i....i don't know what to say here....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 31, 2013, 08:39:08 pm
New debate topic, should prostitution be made legal? And why?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 31, 2013, 08:47:29 pm
....did no one see my link... >>;

yes. because people have the right to do with themselves what they choose. prostitutes will exist whether or not it's illegal. it's the oldest profession in the world.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 31, 2013, 08:55:12 pm
@prostitutes: I don't see a reason why not, if the person in question decides it for themselves that they want to do that. If they're unwillingly forced into it, then it's obviously wrong

@baby in sewer: More reason why abortions should be more easily accessible IMO; to prevent things like that
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 31, 2013, 09:36:36 pm
in this case, i don't think it was easy access to abortions that did it, it was lack of sex ed. but i agree on your point, and also make the point that asia needs to be a bit more forward thinking in teaching sex ed. teaching kids about how NOT to be teen moms doesn't mean you condone them going off and doing the nasty in a shibuya park. :\

honestly, in japan, it got to the point where parents and schools did so little in the way of telling teens, that a magazine took it upon itself to teach them. it worked out great despite the controversy.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 31, 2013, 09:39:35 pm
I didn't know that. Interesting
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 31, 2013, 09:42:01 pm
mm. better for a magazine to teach them than for them to find out the hard way. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 31, 2013, 10:12:44 pm
@choco: Yeah I saw it.
It was terrible and she should feel terrible. That is if it wasn't an accident.

On the topic of legalized prostitution, yes I do believe it should be made legal, if only ti make it safer to those involved.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 31, 2013, 11:01:05 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on May 31, 2013, 09:36:36 pm
in this case, i don't think it was easy access to abortions that did it, it was lack of sex ed. but i agree on your point, and also make the point that asia needs to be a bit more forward thinking in teaching sex ed. teaching kids about how NOT to be teen moms doesn't mean you condone them going off and doing the nasty in a shibuya park. :\

honestly, in japan, it got to the point where parents and schools did so little in the way of telling teens, that a magazine took it upon itself to teach them. it worked out great despite the controversy.


I actually didn't know that Japan and China were so lax when it comes to sex ed. I dunno, lack of decent sex ed in school systems is something that I usually think of as being an "American problem", but I guess it's an issue that transcends national and cultural borders in this case.

I know that the thing hindering sex education in the US is generally conservatism (both in legislation and social mores) and fundamentalist religious attitudes, but now you have me sincerely curious what the causes are in Asia. I know Japan is a bit behind the times in regards to sex ed, birth control and the like, but China seems like it would be more progressive on that front? As the article said, abortion is common in the country, and I've heard birth control is readily-available there. I mean, hell, from what I've read hormonal BC is available OTC in China, whereas most other developed countries make women jump through veritable hoops in order to access it. (For instance, blood and urine tests, needing a prescription, prescriptions not being issues w/o yearly / bi-yearly gyno examinations and plenty of other bullshit). Also, I've read sterilization and IUDs are quite common among Chinese women, but I'm not sure if those are available to childless women or only those who've already had a child (that is to say, as a means of enforcing the one-child policy).

Quote from: Simonorged on May 31, 2013, 08:39:08 pm
New debate topic, should prostitution be made legal? And why?


I think prostitution should be legalized. First off, legalizing it will allow people who sincerely WANT to be in sex work to go into that field without fearing prosecution. This might help clear up the problem of people being forced into sex work against their will.

Secondly, if prostitution is legalized, people who are abused or assaulted while on the job will be able to seek justice without being afraid of being punished themselves.

Thirdly, legal prostitution might help de-stigmatize that line of work. I can't be certain of this, since there are so many nasty societal attitudes toward people (particularly women) who have multiple / many sexual partners, but it would at least allow people involved in sex work to speak openly about their experiences and demand respect, which is something that isn't so easy to do now (see point 2).

Finally, if it's legal it can be regulated. If it's regulated, it'll be safer for everyone involved.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on May 31, 2013, 11:24:30 pm
The majority of Asian parents will never give the sex talk. Things like cohabitation, not to mention premarital sex, is a major point of contention. They do preach about not having sex until marriage, but this is less to do with religion and more to do with family harmony.

"Saving face" is a EXTREMELY important part of Asian society, and the thought that one's child is participating in sexual escapades, or even just the image of sexual escapades--which is what is assumed by Asians if a male and female live together--would be damaging to their image as parents, and in turn, damaging to the whole family name. And yes, there is a major gender inequality in that it is more shameful if it is a daughter that does it, instead of a son. Recall that ero/ecchi manga/anime trope of a girl asking a guy who takes her virginity (or some other lewd thing) to "take responsibility"-- it implies that she can no longer be married to anyone else. And this trope is indeed rooted in a societal reality. A man (and more importantly, the man's family) would find a "deflowered" woman to be an undesirable mate.

Due to globalization, this upcoming generation is softening their views. But a cultural change such as this will take a lot of time.


I got a bit of a double whammy. My parents being immigrants from the Philippines, I got a little bit from Column A (Asian filial piety) and a little bit Column B (conservative Catholicism).
Thank God for sex ed. My parents were pretty surprised that I had sex ed in a Catholic school while I was in the 6th grade, truth be told. They didn't do anything about it so nothing happened, but they still thought that they shouldn't be teaching us that,
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 31, 2013, 11:35:56 pm
@Bella: Thank-you, that is what I was trying to say, damn sleepiness.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 31, 2013, 11:39:56 pm
@Sleepy: Be thankful you had sex ed. The extent of mine was "woman have breasts; men do not"; which meant I had to figure out 99% of stuff involving sex on my own :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 01, 2013, 12:02:01 am
sex ed was awkward as hell. thank god i was going through my beret phase at the time. *holds hat over face*

@sleepy: you quantified most of the points i was going to make, thankyou. also, this explains why asian men seem so desirable to me since they can think of things OTHER than "hey, let's have sex". seems it's not THEM that's doing that, it's their society as a whole. :\

@simon: prostitution is legal in 2 counties of Nevada. and there, they have access to protection from dangerous/otherwise undesirable johns, health care, and other perks awarded to "legitimate" jobs like pensions and tax breaks. :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 01, 2013, 10:26:56 am
Spread that everywhere else then.
It's going to happen anyway so why not make it safer for everyone everywhere.
Frankly I still want nothing to do with it, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 01, 2013, 01:28:43 pm
at the very least, you're not taking a moral stance against it, which i respect. their bodies, their choice, unless they were forced into it.
and if they were, legalizing it would help to eliminate that, at least somewhat.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 01, 2013, 04:56:14 pm
@Sleepy: Thanks for the insights, I'd heard similar things about many Asian cultures but I had no idea how widespread it was and how much of it was rooted in stereotypes vs. reality.

@Simon: Thanks dude.

Re: Sex ed: I think I've said it before but I never had proper sex ed and my parents weren't exactly forthcoming on the matter.

I knew the basics of menstruation, that babies were made by "mommies" and "daddies" in something called sex and about pregnancy and childbirth by the age of 7 or so (the latter of which I half blame for my huge amounts of childbirth-phobia) and about the existence of masturbation, birth control and sexual crimes not too long after, but we never had any detailed talks about the mechanics of sex or "when you start having sex"-type discussion. Which I am IMMENSELY thankful for, since I found the whole subject painfully awkward and literally never thought about that subject or had any sort of sexual feelings until well into my teens. (And even then they weren't aimed at anyone.)

I mean, the closest thing was my father asking me whether or not I liked boys after I pretended a lesbian to get some skeezy-ass weirdo to stop creeping on me, and even then I could just stutter out a hesitant "Oh, yeah. Of course." because the question caught me SO DAMN OFF GUARD and I hadn't thought about it until then. :|
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 01, 2013, 06:30:57 pm
that's pretty advanced knowledge for a 7-year-old. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 02, 2013, 12:02:00 am
Indeed. As mentioned, the extent of my sex ed was "women have breasts; men do not". Because reproduction was never explained to me, I assumed that babies were made when a mommy "got fat" and then went to the hospital to place an order for a baby, in the same way one would order a pizza. Yay for homeschool?

As for anatomy, I didn't know the proper name for male anatomy until I was older, and once I started to learn more about sex, I assumed for the longest time (read: until I was at least 17 >_>;; ) that women had a single multi-purpose hole down there. I guess part of the reason I don't give a fuck about sex when compared to other guys my age is because I honestly knew so little about it for the longest time, and by the time I did learn what it was in full, I honestly didn't see it as being as important as the media makes it out to be; I just want someone to go on wild adventures with me, not someone to do naughty things in bed with :\

I hope I didn't cross the line for stuff outside the H section ^^;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 02, 2013, 02:55:22 am
@Kari: Welllll, I only knew the basics, none of the anatomical details or anything like that. My mom had to explain periods to me because we had two female dogs at the time and, well, she didn't want me to think they were dying when I discovered they were bleeding (in estrous) one day. I don't ever remember believing any of the fairy-tales about babies being made, I knew "mommies" carried them inside their bellies and that there were pushed out of someplace between their legs, painfully ... I also had a plush dog that had a pouch in its belly for carrying its babies (I used to love playing vet with it by delivering its puppies, hahah), so maybe that cemented the idea in my mind. ^^;;;;

@Pent: Don't feel bad about the hole thing. Apparently a lot of people believe women have some sort of multipurpose vagina-with-pee-deposit exit, not realizing that the urethra and vagina are separate parts. It's funny, this just came up a few days ago on a tumblr i'm following ... a woman is engaged to a college-educated, sexually-active guy who's seen plenty of nether-parts and STILL never realized that there are three separate holes down there. Apparently he was mind-blown to discover otherwise. ^^;

As for sex ed resources, I know of several excellent sites. If you have any questions / curiosities I can point you in their direction. ^^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 02, 2013, 10:44:53 am
I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever curious about more info :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 02, 2013, 10:33:51 pm
@bells: i had a kitty plush like that!! i still have her somewhere, at the very least i've managed to keep her poor kittens together. ;^;
@pent: baby = pizza. this is the new truth.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 03, 2013, 09:55:57 am
Shezow himself.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
http://www.care2.com/causes/guy-learns-to-be-a-superwoman-in-new-cartoon.html#comment-5119430 (http://www.care2.com/causes/guy-learns-to-be-a-superwoman-in-new-cartoon.html#comment-5119430)

The animated series follows 12-year-old Guy Hamdon (Sam Vincent, "Voltron Force"), a natural cut-up who fancies himself an extreme dude with his own macho catch phrase, "It's a GUY thing." Guy lives the dream of every rough-and-tumble boy when he discovers an awesome power ring, which transforms him into a mighty superhero. Pretty cool, but there's just one tiny catch -- the ring that gives Guy his amazing superpowers was only meant to be worn by a girl and the result is absolutely she-larious. As the amazing crime-fighting SheZow, Guy must use his superpowers to battle mega-villains while sporting an outrageous female superhero costume, which actually ends up helping him on his own personal journey toward becoming one heck of a super man.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/05/28/Children-network-transsexual-superhero (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/05/28/Children-network-transsexual-superhero)

Nothing says "child-appropriate material" quite like gender-bending underage superheroes. At least that's the theory over at the Hub, the network co-owned by Discovery and Hasbro, which is trotting out its latest soon-to-be-dud, SheZow. That show follows the adventures of a 12-year-old boy named Guy who uses a magic ring to transform himself into a crime-fighting girl. Yes, you read that correctly. When Guy says the magic words - "You go girl!" - he becomes SheZow, wearing a purple skirt and cape, as well as pink gloves and white boots.


What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 03, 2013, 10:16:19 am
I intend on watching that when it premieres. I know it'll likely won't go over in my area (Because the overhyped series that is Duck Dynasty is obviously a work of genius), but I'm sure it'll find an audience elsewhere; it's such an interesting concept, even if webcomics similar in setup are floating out there.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 03, 2013, 11:49:25 am
@choco:(legal prostitutes) I do have a moral stance against it personally.
I just don't want to see people suffer for it. Besides just because I don't like prostitution doesn't mean it can't be somewhat legitimate, in the sense that people might actually like that line of work.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 03, 2013, 08:57:36 pm
didn't i tell everyone about Shezow a couple weeks ago? i posted pictures. :\

i'm looking forward to the show, personally. it's breaking gender stereotypes and the stigma attached to cross dressers and transgender people.

@simon: i don't like catholic school teachers but i still support their right to do what they do. if they got anywhere near my kids, on the other hand, that's cause for war. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 04, 2013, 08:32:38 am
Kinda like that but not entirely, I've no room to judge so I don't.
People will do with their lives whatever they will and I have little to no power to change that.
I will not spend my time attacking them for what they or anyone else believes in.
Partially a treat others the way you wanna be treated thing, mostly a I actually give a shit about peoples emotional well being.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 05, 2013, 11:05:33 pm
Re: SheZow: From what I've seen of it (which is only reviews and ads so far), it looks like a decent show - I mean, it has a novel storyline and may help dispel myths about femininity / femaleness being an inferior, less powerful or less capable state of being. (Maybe.) On the other hand, I doubt it'll teach kids about trans* issues or sensitivity toward trans* people, if only for the fact that the main character isn't trans*; as being transgender isn't determined by what clothes you wear, what clothes you prefer wearing or (in fiction) being gender-swapped or transported into the body of a person of the opposite sex.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 07, 2013, 09:07:57 am
This just in: Our web-nations security breached

Yahoo email accounts, Verizon phone records, and Facebook accounts, to monitor US citizens.
This is a problem because one, BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU, and the US isn't the only ones on the internet. If they got ours they can get accounts from other nations.

Friends, please sound off.
http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/06/glenn-greenwald-on-the-nsa-and-prism-its-well-past-time-that-we-have-a-debate-about-whether-thats-the-kind-of-country-and-world-in-which-we-want-to-live/ (http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/06/glenn-greenwald-on-the-nsa-and-prism-its-well-past-time-that-we-have-a-debate-about-whether-thats-the-kind-of-country-and-world-in-which-we-want-to-live/)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 07, 2013, 11:31:09 am
*sits in corner with depression cloud overhead*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 11, 2013, 07:36:29 pm
New topic: Thoughts on the body acceptance movement, particularly when it comes to people who are under- and overweight (even to a possibly-extreme degree)? Do you think it's good for people to accept themselves and others unconditionally, or do you think it promotes unhealthy behavior?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 11, 2013, 08:02:27 pm
this country is too obsessed with weight.

i say, if you're happy with yourself, then godspeed. your body, your choices.
if you have problems with another's body, that's YOUR problem, NOT theirs. people have no right to go around making people feel bad about themselves just because THEY don't like the way others look. not everyone can be or wants to be a victoria's secret model. i say, leave others the fuck alone and keep it to yourself.
if YOU have problems with your body, either change your body or change your mind, since one has gone bad here.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on June 12, 2013, 06:04:11 am
I'm not quite willing to take acceptance that far. Concern for a person's health is a very viable reason to intervene indeed. If someone wants to be half-fat and pudgy, then that's their problem; if they want to look like a skeleton (or a stranded whale), sorry, but no.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 12, 2013, 08:30:41 am
No one should judge, but appearance is something.
Positive criticism is helpful, especially if you have an eating disorder.
You should always desire better for yourself.

You know what bugs me?

When people say somethings wrong with them, in order to justify them doing it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on June 12, 2013, 09:29:44 am
If someone has a weight problem, then I think people should be able to say 'you need to start losing/gaining weight', 'change your dietary plan', etc and actually try to help without being a total boob about it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 12, 2013, 12:02:39 pm
I agree with Kari; people should be able to do with their bodies as they see fit without others passing judgement on them. I mean, if it's a case of disordered eating (which is a psychological issue), they should be encouraged to seek medical help or at least some sort of support system (as should people with any other sort of psychological illness), but the majority of people who are over- or underweight due to eating habits, genetic predisposition or environmental factors should be left alone.

I'm pro-body-positivity mostly because I dislike current standards of beauty (not because they're "wrong", beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that, but because they're near-ubiquitous and present almost-impossible standards for people to live up to), discrimination against people who fall outside of the narrowly-defined spectrum of pretty/handsome (aka lookism), as well as harassment and stereotypes against people who *are* conventionally-attractive (for instance, the assumption that all good-looking women are dumb, easy, or fair game for objectification or sexual harassment), and the assumption that certain diseases go hand-in-hand with certain body types without exception or that you can't be fit if you're overweight.

All these cases present dangerous over-simplifications: That's there's only one way to be beautiful or handsome, that you can tell what a person is like based on the appearance of their body, that people who are under or overweight can't be healthy, fit or athletic (which also makes the reverse assumption: that people who are at an "ideal" weight must be healthier, fitter or more active than their fat peers).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on June 12, 2013, 12:16:42 pm
Quote from: Bella on June 12, 2013, 12:02:39 pm
I agree with Kari; people should be able to do with their bodies as they see fit without others passing judgement on them. I mean, if it's a case of disordered eating (which is a psychological issue), they should be encouraged to seek medical help or at least some sort of support system (as should people with any other sort of psychological illness), but the majority of people who are over- or underweight due to eating habits, genetic predisposition or environmental factors should be left alone.

I'm pro-body-positivity mostly because I dislike current standards of beauty (not because they're "wrong", beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that, but because they're near-ubiquitous and present almost-impossible standards for people to live up to), discrimination against people who fall outside of the narrowly-defined spectrum of pretty/handsome (aka lookism), as well as harassment and stereotypes against people who *are* conventionally-attractive (for instance, the assumption that all good-looking women are dumb, easy, or fair game for objectification or sexual harassment), and the assumption that certain diseases go hand-in-hand with certain body types without exception or that you can't be fit if you're overweight.

All these cases present dangerous over-simplifications: That's there's only one way to be beautiful or handsome, that you can tell what a person is like based on the appearance of their body, that people who are under or overweight can't be healthy, fit or athletic (which also makes the reverse assumption: that people who are at an "ideal" weight must be healthier, fitter or more active than their fat peers).

>Throw test paper away
>Copy Bella's
??????
PROFIT!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 12, 2013, 10:55:10 pm
don't copy my copying. -w-;

@nej: eating disorders are tricky, since like any addict, direct confrontation is likely to be met with either denial or exaserbation of the problem. with eating disorders, saying "you don't look well" is viable to make them think you're calling them fat. choice of words is vury important here.

but honestly, when it comes to "concern", i still don't think it's cause to intervene. if it's dangerous, yeah, that might be cause, but plenty of people are "concerned" with their family due to their lifestyle choices. that doesn't nessecarily make them bad ones. (i know plenty of people are 'concerned' when their teenage daughter starts exploring alternate religions/sexualities. we live in a close-minded world, and that's something that needs to change. the first step is letting people live their own lives, even if we don't agree with them.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 12, 2013, 11:25:01 pm
Indeed. I hate the kind of people who feel the need to basically live someone else's life for them; like how many people I've dealt with try to control every aspect of my life (Even people I didn't know at all tried this; especially at the hospital, as a contract worker tried to strike up a conversation...only for it to turn into harassment about how I need to quit my job right now and go to college or else I'll "never amount to anything in life". Thankfully, my dad added that to a very long list of complaints about that contract worker -w-)

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 13, 2013, 01:44:57 am
it's times like these that i'm thankful that these images exist, just for this situation:
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 13, 2013, 08:24:36 am
fair enough, I was speaking of myself as well.

But here I'm not talking about a little over or under, I'm talking a person who purges and starves them selves or weights so much that they cannot move. Eating disorders are dangerous. And they affect those close to them a lot. My friend went on a food strike a little while ago, for the sake of he wanted to, he is a diabetic toothpick and it almost killed him. People worry when you don't take care of yourself.

I realize that people will do what they want to do, and that no one has any right to change anyone. But not addressing extreme issues leads to death.

Then you have the people who are a bit over or under. You have me 240lb and my friend who weighs 100lb, in both cases it has to do with metabolism, my friends' is fast and mine is slow.

would there be a debate if I didn't play the devils advocate?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 13, 2013, 01:30:19 pm
i still say we don't have the right to interfere any more than we have the right to interfere with a christian scientist's refusal of medication. we may not like it, we may not agree, but we don't have the right to control the lives of others. with that in mind, if the christian scientist's kid didn't agree with him and went off to get BC, he has no right to interfere with the kid.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 13, 2013, 05:35:15 pm
@Simon: I do agree with you. This stance would surely make me enemies within the body-acceptance scene, but I don't like EXTREME obesity or emaciation being considered alright or normal. I mean, I have no right to judge people who are extremely under- or overweight, nor would I, but when a person's weight or build starts to effect their mobility and make it difficult to live their day-to-day life, it's probably best that they reexamine their life. Of course, it's rare for people to get to that point, and by then it could be very difficult for them to make changes to improve their health.

All in all, I wish there was more emphasis on being active and eating the most balanced diet possible REGARDLESS OF WEIGHT (while bearing in mind there are ENORMOUS social and economic factors that prevent many people from eating a healthy diet and that it's dickish to criticize poor and overworked people for not eating well enough), rather than obsessing over developing a thin body and looking a certain way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 14, 2013, 08:55:34 am
Maybe it's because I'm colder than most of you, bug I still say don't interfere. Their body , their problem.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 17, 2013, 03:17:05 pm
New topic:

what is you take on this add and why.

Am I the only one confused on why she would pick a pet over a mate?
Think of it this way, this is like knowing someone who is afraid of water and water boarding him.
This is like finding someone who is afraid of spiders and throwing a tarantula at him.
This is like forcing someone who is afraid of clowns to watch IT.

Sounds funny but it isn't to the person, It sounds dumb but it is very serious.
Then to fall in love with someone and then threaten the marriage over a cat?
You seriously didn't know about his fear of cats before hand?

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 17, 2013, 04:17:14 pm
I find it funny, to be honest. Nothing to really get worked up about :\

Besides, some people will choose something over a mate that would seem illogical to everyone else, but if it makes them happier, they have every right to.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 17, 2013, 09:23:17 pm
agreed. and simon, get off the sopabox for a sec, you're being really dramatic about this. >>;

honestly, the clipping was likely a gag or a ploy by the wife to get the husband to drop it. it doesn't say he's allergic, just that he doesn't like them. marrage is a partnership and he should let his wife keep the cat. he can't expect to always get his way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 17, 2013, 09:53:18 pm
That's obviously a fictional / humorous image, but I'll humor you for a moment and pretend it's real. If my hypothetical husband told me to pick either him or the cat, honestly, I'd keep the cat.

That sounds harsh, but here's my reasoning. He is NOT allergic to cats. He is not cat-phobic. Having a cat in the house will not put him in a state of physical pain or irritation, nor will it put him in a state of psychological distress. The only reason he doesn't want a cat is because he doesn't like them. Let me tell you something, any man who would say "I go or the cat does" doesn't enjoy being with his wife to begin with - or he does and is completely and utterly lacking any sort of perspective on life, or is severely psychologically damaged in some other way. In any case, an overreaction of such hilarious magnitude is grounds for kicking his melodramatic ass to the curb.

In short - if you allow a partner's pet to destroy your relationship, your relationship isn't worth keeping in the first place. Move onto somebody who isn't an asshole.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 17, 2013, 10:05:38 pm
Indeed. Anybody that lets something trivial get in the way of a relationship isn't somebody you'd want to be with
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 17, 2013, 10:38:36 pm
and i mean, unless you're allergic, i can't think of much reason to HATE cats to the degree that it would drive a wedge between the pair. the chances of childhood psychological trauma due to a cat is a hell of a lot slimmer than one involving a dog. xD
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 18, 2013, 08:20:26 am
Makes sense.

@Bella: Exactly, though I was focusing on the other side, that is pretty much my point.
If an animal is going to be the deciding factor in your relationship, than maybe you shouldn't have one. Although in my mind I was focusing on the part where she was considering the pet over him.
@Choco: Considering the things people are afraid of, any animal carries the possibility of being feared, fear isn't rational.
In any relationship, your partner is to know your secrets. Your likes and dislikes, your fears and wishes regarding them, I find it unlikely that this wasn't addressed with each other in the past.
I will constantly take the unpopular view, just for the fun of it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 18, 2013, 01:48:20 pm
taking the unpopular view just for the hell of it is, no offense, stupid. as fuck. i mean seriously, that's like the guy who picks a fight or does something crazy just to get attention. though you crave mental stimulation in the form of debate, doing anything to spark it--including siding with the arguement you don't agree with--isn't a good way, or a smart way, to go about it. quit it man, seriously.

you'd be better off looking for intellectual stimulation elsewhere. maybe you should read war and peace or something. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 18, 2013, 02:19:15 pm
There isn't anything wrong with humoring the unpopular POV, both for the purposes of this thread AND intellectual stimulation / discussion. (If there was, debate teams across the world would go belly-up.) ^^;

I mean, hell, I do it all the time - god knows I hate radical environmentalism, radical veganism, radfemism, anti-religion and human extinction movements, (conservative) libertarianism, moral-objectivism, etc. but I'm still willing to read about those causes / philosophies and hear what their proponents have to say. I mean, plenty of it is garbage, some of it is downright loathesome, but there are also nuggets of food-for-thought mixed in. Sometimes it makes me uncomfortable, sometimes it makes me upset or angry or really want to punch the author(s) in the face, but every so often I'll come across ideas that make me really think or make sense to me.

As well, there are some concepts that I'm genuinely of two minds about so I like hearing arguments from both sides, even when one OR both sides have a tendency to ruffle my feathers. (For instance: can bigotry exist against a majority group? Are binary gender identities generally socially derived? What is the line between cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation? Are belief systems [particularly, religion] bad for society? Do young [non-reasoning] children the same rights of bodily autonomy that adults have? Etc.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 18, 2013, 02:38:21 pm
I understand the reason on both sides.
Guess that's what happens when you think in terms of anime logic.
It is a lot like acting and it is fun. I can see what you mean by picking fights, and in a way I am.
That's the point.

@Bella: Have we done appre(vs.)appro? or could we try BiGen Identity?
Pretty sure we have done Religion:Bad for society? and Bigotry to Majority.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 18, 2013, 03:15:06 pm
@bella: i disagree. sparking debate just to spark debate is a waste of time in my eyes. by contrast, if we find an article worth talking about, and we talk about it, that's worthwhile. but simon has told me once that he would root around for rage-inducing articles to post just to get this topic going again, and that irks me.

@simon: sorry i'm talking about you like you're not here. and 'anime logic'? wtf do you mean by that? (don't bring anime into this, man. >>; ) debate isn't acting, either you feel that way or you don't. if you don't, but say you do, it's lying. but then, acting is the greatest lie.
it's still lies, though, and i hate liars.


just for the record, i didn't go seeking this out. i was checking my email and noticed a bunch of articles, so have at you. no doubt the first one is going to enrage bella.
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/tsa-officer-shames-teen-for-wearing-leggings--dad-s-got-this--192409505.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/big-u-s--companies-you-might-not-know-are-religious-175228053.html?page=2
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/second-grader-in-wheelchair-set-apart-from-classmates-in-school-photo-153816157.html
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 17, 2013, 02:25:39 pm
Zimmerman.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 17, 2013, 04:16:24 pm
George Zimmerman is an racist dumbass who took the law into his own hands, killed an innocent person based on his own inflated sense of self-worth and racial prejudices, and got off scot-free (so far). He should have at least been convicted of manslaughter, imo.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 17, 2013, 04:18:39 pm
Agreed. I really feel he should have faced some form of punishment, but he's off without so much as a slap on the wrist
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 18, 2013, 08:37:03 am
So hold on.

Your saying that a guy, who was in fact defending himself.
Forensic and autopsy proved this.
Should be treated as less than human because he was getting his head beat into the pavement before shooting?

It was a clean shoot.

Martin wasn't a saint either.

He was a coke dealer who was walking through a neiborhood at 2 in the morning.
When confronted he attacked Zimmerman, pinning him to the ground.
But the media wont tell you this, they want to make you think that Zimer is a racist fuck.

The gun was licensed and had all the paperwork.
It was a clean shoot.
And this is why you look for all the facts.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 18, 2013, 10:42:12 am
*burns zimmerman in effigy* all in favour?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 18, 2013, 11:08:07 am
Nope. I admit I'm not the most read-up on the case, but in all fairness I believe Zimmerman acted quite justly in the case.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 18, 2013, 03:16:39 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on July 18, 2013, 08:37:03 am
Your saying that a guy, who was in fact defending himself.
Forensic and autopsy proved this.
Should be treated as less than human because he was getting his head beat into the pavement before shooting?


So your saying a teenage boy who was being followed by a stranger in a car doesn't have the right to defend himself against said stranger? If I had the size and strength of Trayvon Martin I would surely use my hands and fists to defend myself against an unknown assailant. (Fuck, even as a 5'6'', 125lb female-bodied person I'd attempt to fight back.) As would most normal human beings.

As well, a medical examiner who examined Zimmerman determined that his injuries were, in no way, life threatening (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sanford-testifies-trayvon-martin-murder-trial-article-1.1388147).

QuoteMartin wasn't a saint either.


Oh wow a teenage boy smoking pot and getting suspended from school! What a little hooligan he was! Never mind that *most* teenagers experiment with drugs at some point and *many* teens get suspended from school. When white kids do those things it's written off as normal teenage experimentation / stupidity, when black kids do those things they're thugs-in-the-making. (There's also the matter of the much higher rates of suspension for black kids (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/12/black-student-suspensions/2151423/) - often times, behavior that's tolerated in whites is considered suspicious or troublesome enough in black children to warrant suspension. Hrm.)

QuoteHe was a coke dealer who was walking through a neiborhood at 2 in the morning.


Funny, I searched "Trayvon Martin" and "drug dealer" in Google and I turned up nothing but right wing "alternative" news sites, Yahoo! Answers posts and white supremacy blogs. After five minutes sifting through links in Google search I searched Google News, and once again turned up nothing of substance. Hrrrrrrmmmmmmm.

Perhaps you're an undercover investigative journalist and are privy to some info we plebeians know not of?

QuoteWhen confronted he attacked Zimmerman, pinning him to the ground.


Once again, any human being with a half an ounce of fight-or-flight instinct would pin an unknown attacker to the ground in that situation. (Me, I'd probably just have to settle for a crotch-kick or maybe an eye-gouge.) Are you implying that, since Martin was strong enough to actually fight back against Zimmerman - who ATTACKED Martin - he deserved to die?

QuoteBut the media wont tell you this, they want to make you think that Zimer is a racist fuck.


Yes, because The Mainstream Media is a massive conglomerate of left-wing oligarchs who conspire to hide The Truth from us, man!

This is fact. Fox News told me so.

QuoteThe gun was licensed and had all the paperwork.


Immaterial. I don't care that Zimmerman had a gun, that's his right as a US citizen (I'm not being sarcastic here - if you recall past HBT discussions, I'm quite possibly the most pro-gun rights person on OSC). I have a problem with a "neighborhood watch"-man chasing down an unknown person who did nothing wrong and assailing him, like a lunatic.

QuoteIt was a clean shoot.


"At least Zimmerman put down Martin in a humane fashion" is what you're saying, then?

Yes, we should surely be glad that he gave that teenage human being the same amount of respect as a vet euthanizing somebody's pet.

QuoteAnd this is why you look for all the facts.


Since you're fond of facts, I'm gonna lay down a few for you:

   
•   George Zimmerman molested a 6-year-old girl (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/17/george_zimmerman_molestation_accusations_relevant_testimony_in_trial.html)--and continued to molest her throughout the next 10 years of her life (http://www.policymic.com/articles/11414/george-zimmerman-witness-9-fallout-sex-abuse-allegations-show-he-is-dangerous).
   
•   In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with "resisting an officer with violence" (http://http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11808013-george-zimmermans-criminal-records-revealed) and "battery of law enforcement officer." (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite)
   
•   That same year, Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite)
   
•   In the year before killing Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman had called the police 46 times. 7 of these calls (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html) specifically reported Black men. In four of the recordings, Zimmerman reported "suspicious" persons -- all of whom were Black (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-19/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-george-zimmerman-911-20120319_1_neighborhood-county-sheriff-s-office-crime-watch). Several times Zimmerman suggested Black men were responsible for local burglaries.
   
•   Zimmerman, a 29-year-old adult male, followed 17-year-old Martin (http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/26/why-does-it-matter-when-and-why-george-z) for no fewer than 4 solid minutes, first in his car and then on foot. (http://www.chicagonewsreport.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martins-killer.html)
   
•   In these actions, Zimmerman "didn't follow protocol as a neighborhood watch volunteer." (http://www.policymic.com/articles/51717/trayvon-martin-trial-george-zimmerman-doesn-t-deserve-much-sympathy)

•   Zimmerman revealed his state of mind to the dispatcher as he followed Martin: "Fucking punks, these assholes all get away." (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/24/justice/zimmerman-trial) (An unedited 911 recording suggests Zimmerman may have said, "Fucking coons." (http://www.chicagonewsreport.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martins-killer.html))

•   The 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman: "Okay, we don't need you to [follow him]." (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/24/justice/zimmerman-trial)

•   At no time did Zimmerman identify himself (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-fast-facts/index.html) to Martin.

•   The medical examiner who examined Zimmerman "disputed his claims that Martin slammed his head repeatedly on the pavement," (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sanford-testifies-trayvon-martin-murder-trial-article-1.1388147) going so far as to say Zimmerman's injuries "were not life threatening... very insignificant."

•   George Zimmerman has no regrets (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/george_zimmerman_brother_says_not_elndSJ1xHHISzpSYrnoEjI) and has said that the murder of Trayvon Martin was "all God's plan." (http://gawker.com/5927268/in-first-televised-interview-george-zimmerman-expresses-no-regrets-says-killing-trayvon-martin-was-gods-plan)

Zimmerman had a history of criminal, erratic, racist behavior. He defied orders from police by following Martin and provoked Martin to fight. I don't know EVERYTHING that happened that night (and neither does anyone besides Zimmerman and Martin, RIP), but it's clear he was at fault in killing Martin and should have - at least - gotten charged with manslaughter. People have been charged with manslaughter for cooking unsanitary food. People have been charged with manslaughter for miscarrying fetuses. People have been charged with manslaughter for causing auto accidents. You're telling me Zimmerman wasn't at fault for his irresponsible (if not criminal) actions?

Quote from: NejinOniwa on July 18, 2013, 11:08:07 am
Nope. I admit I'm not the most read-up on the case, but in all fairness I believe Zimmerman acted quite justly in the case.


What part of it? Chasing a random stranger down the street after he was told by the police specifically NOT to, or shooting said stranger after he [Zimmerman] provoked him [Martin] into a fight?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 18, 2013, 03:35:27 pm
Very nicely put. Also, I just have to highlight this:

Quote from: Bella on July 18, 2013, 03:16:39 pm
Yes, because The Mainstream Media is a massive conglomerate of left-wing oligarchs who conspire to hide The Truth from us, man!

This is fact. Fox News told me so.


That has to be the greatest sentence I've ever seen
*gives you cupcake*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 18, 2013, 04:46:47 pm
Heh, thanks Pent.

Also, I'd like to note that while I can see where the arguments against the racialization of the George Zimmerman case come from (it would obviously be a horrific tragedy / crime regardless of the race of the victim or perpetrator and even if there was no racial motivation), it's naive to assume that this case can be views through a "raceless" or "post-racial" lens.

Take for example the case of Marissa Alexander (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2013/07/15/6030be5a-ed5c-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html). She's a 32-year-old black Floridian and mother of three who fired a warning shot into the ceiling when she was assailed by her abusive husband, whom she had a protective order against. She was arrested for attempted murder and, in spite of pleading that she had fired the shot in self-defense and was justified under Florida's Stand Your Ground Law, received a sentence of 20 years in prison.

A white (-ish) guy with a criminal record chasing and gunning down a black teenager? That's A-OK, according to a Florida court. A black woman who had no prior offenses protecting herself and her children against an abusive spouse? Attempted murderer. 20 years in prison.

There's also the case of Michael Dunn and Jordan Davis (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/15/another-trial-involving-a-florida-man-who-fatally-shot-an-unarmed-black-teen/). Michael Dunn is a white Florida man who fatally shot Davis, a 17-year-old black teenager, in a gas station parking lot after harassing Davis and his friends about playing loud music in their vehicle and getting into a heated argument with the boys. Dunn claims he felt threatened by the teens and says he mistook "a barrel or a stick" of some kind for a shotgun and fired at the boys in a lawful use of the Stand Your Ground Law. He's going to trial later this summer.

Here's a short summary of a few other racially-charged self-defense cases (http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/five_racially_charged_self_defense_cases_that_echo_zimmerman/).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 18, 2013, 06:28:53 pm
i just set up the zimmerman straw doll, and i've got the lighter fluid. anyone got the torches?

(@bella: agreeing with pent here, that was beautifully put. *hands fresh-baked cookie*)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 18, 2013, 06:58:36 pm
I may be quite off the van here, since I am - painfully - oblivious to the racial connotations of US society. Kari can attest to as much, I believe. In the Zimmerman case, it all boils down to A: who attacked who, and B: how truthful is Zimmerman's story, and that of the witnesses. There are no objective accounts, and we cannot find an objective truth. Simply looking at the facts I'm presented with, I don't see anything wrong with the outcome of the trial. Sure, Zimmerman could've acted differently and avoided a confrontation. Sure, Florida courts might be a huge load of racist fucktards, I have no idea. But from my standpoint, and from the facts - and accounts - I've been given, Zimmerman's actions were not wrong.

There's IF's everywhere in the whole story. IF Zimmerman DID confront the guy willingly, then OF COURSE he'd try his damndest to use his knowledge of the justice system to escape a conviction. IF he didn't, of course he'd defend himself. I'm quite willing to believe that, in a situation like that, he'd be panicked enough to believe his life was in danger, even if his wounds were not severe at all. After all, the purpose of deadly violence in the first place is to PREVENT extreme bodily harm to oneself. Seeing as, one way or another, he was successful in this, then O F bloody C he won't have deadly wounds on his own body. He acted in time.

And OF COURSE the Martins are going to do their damndest to damn their son's murderer to as much hate as they can. And OF COURSE they won't believe he's telling the truth, and OF COURSE they will feel like they're getting oppressed by the system.

When the system doesn't have facts to go on, the system does as well as it can with the stories it's told. Whether those stories are lies or not does not matter in the system's outcome, for the system has no inherent way of knowing. And if only one part of a conflict is alive, well. Call me cold, but Vae Victis. It is better to praise the living and condemn the dead, if for no other reason that the dead won't come back to haunt you - and you won't ruin the life left to live for the living.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 18, 2013, 07:42:08 pm
I agree with Nejin
@Bella, no I don't mean humane, I mean it was a clean shoot.
It wasn't a dirty shot.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 19, 2013, 12:09:42 am
@nej: but we DO have some facts to go on. there was the fact that ZIMMERMAN was following MARTIN. not the other way around. martin wasn't doing anything but passing through, and yet zimmerman felt "threatened" enough to follow him for "the good of the neighborhood" (idk if those are actual quotes, but you get the picture). the 911 call attests to that, when the operator told him HE DOESN'T NEED TO FOLLOW THE GUY. if i was being followed by a random stranger for a good 5 minutes, i might react the same way. does that give the guy the right to shoot me? hell no, HE was the one committing the crime in this situation (stalking, harassment, menacing, possibly even disorderly conduct). HE'S the creep here.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 19, 2013, 12:37:02 am
Kari summed up what I was going to say, almost point-for-point actually. There's a lot of talk about how Zimmerman acted in self defense, but people seem to be forgetting that Zimmerman WAS the aggressor in the situation - against police orders (and rational human judgement) he followed and confronted Martin, while Martin acted in self defense.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 19, 2013, 01:40:54 pm
it was CLEARLY racially motivated, to boot. someone (bells) correct me if i'm wrong here, but wasn't martin wandering through zimmerman's neighborhood, which is predominantly white? combined with his irrational following of martin and his past crimes against blacks, i'd say that martin's race was the trigger here. would zimmerman have reacted the same way if martin were white? hispanic? asian?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 19, 2013, 01:55:25 pm
I have SUBSTANTIAL doubt on the racial factor as a motive. Regardless of guilt, that whole thing just reeks of media stains.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 19, 2013, 06:21:18 pm
evidently you've never been to florida. closet racism runs high there.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 19, 2013, 06:57:06 pm
@Kari: The neighborhood is about 20% black. Combined with Zimmerman's past behavior it seems safe to say that his following Martin was - at least in part - motivated by racial bias.

@Nej: I think you underestimate racial tension / biases in the United States*. We've obviously come a long way since the blatant, often times violent and government-sanctioned racism of the past, but there's still an alarming amount of racism in our culture today (especially in light of the fact that many people claim that we are "past racism" or in a "post-racial" society). Black people in particular are still framed as more likely to be criminal and dangerous compared to other minorities and whites, and there are a shit-ton of social and governmental factors that contribute to a higher rate of poverty, unemployment, lower wages, incarceration - and fewer social and economic opportunities overall - among black Americans. It's an extremely complex issue which can't be properly summed up in a paragraph or two, but suffice to say it's naive to assume that race isn't a factor in a crime of this nature.

*The US is a big and complicated nation - each state, region, city and community is different, some have higher rates of racial tension, some aren't as bad. As well, racism is a problem across the globe, but I really don't know enough about racism overseas to speak about it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 19, 2013, 07:56:13 pm
"When someone inserts a fictional black person into their story, they're usually the bad guy."
-Detective Odefin Tutuola, Law and Order: Special Victims Unit
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 24, 2013, 08:52:37 am
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/20/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
So let's talk about Arabia.

Fortunately this woman had her sentence pardoned today, but this is still fairly damn disturbing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 24, 2013, 09:08:53 am
That's the culture they're in.
Women are cattle and their word means about as much as a childs' there.
It's a male supremacist society.

Any democracy they have is a polite legal fiction if they follow that rule book.

It's a common theme with the Muslim brother-hood.
Rape victims are seem as prostitutes, are charged with unlawful sex and illegal drinking. And denied justice at every turn.
Not to mention, premarital sex is a death offense.
Dear any such society,

YOU DON'T NEED TO LIVE ANYMORE!!!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on July 24, 2013, 09:24:35 am
I don't even.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 24, 2013, 10:54:05 am
Remind me to never head to that part of the world >_<;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 27, 2013, 01:18:36 pm


[spoiler] [/spoiler]

(apologies for giant image but enjoy the free wallpaper)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 30, 2013, 10:17:21 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fszg6lphdr6gk67/02.%20Fort%20Minor%20-%20Kenji.mp3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fszg6lphdr6gk67/02.%20Fort%20Minor%20-%20Kenji.mp3)
Should liberties be sacrificed for national security?
Listen to the song.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 30, 2013, 10:37:20 am
Quote from: Benjamin FranklinThose who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

I believe that says it all.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 30, 2013, 12:27:30 pm
Nej put it best
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 30, 2013, 01:04:02 pm
it does.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 30, 2013, 06:14:23 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on July 30, 2013, 10:37:20 am
Quote from: Benjamin FranklinThose who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

I believe that says it all.


I agree with Nej; that's all that really need to be said on the matter.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 30, 2013, 09:21:46 pm
i feel my views on the topic have already been stated thrice.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 30, 2013, 09:59:45 pm
Seems like this wasn't such a "hot" topic at all around these parts, lol.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 30, 2013, 10:45:37 pm
the only topics i get hot-blooded about have already been debated or offend people. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 30, 2013, 11:20:14 pm
Same here, plus some of mine are rather stupid :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 31, 2013, 03:36:14 am
amen, brother. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on August 26, 2013, 07:21:52 am
http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/08/sopa-felony-copyright-streaming
Looks like the US government are gonna bring back SOPA, any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on August 26, 2013, 09:23:06 am
I don't even think we need to have this debate here again, do we?

I mean, all in favor and such.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on August 26, 2013, 12:32:10 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on August 26, 2013, 09:23:06 am
I don't even think we need to have this debate here again, do we?

Well I mean I wasn't really asking for a debate or anything...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 26, 2013, 01:01:30 pm
as if i didn't have enough aggravations in my life right now. next time i try to set up a VPN (if i need one) i'm getting outside help. ><;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on August 26, 2013, 01:06:39 pm
Maybe I should go even further north when I move. Like, to Canada
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 26, 2013, 01:20:01 pm
We're moving to Toronto?
We're moving to Toronto. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on August 26, 2013, 01:22:05 pm
the one I use has a server in California
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 26, 2013, 01:24:16 pm
if i'm using a VPN i'm using one in a different country. the one i was using before was based in panama. but i kinda pissed them off when i left so i can't use them again. -w-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2013, 12:18:12 pm
http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2012/08/25-things-fat-people-shouldnt-do.html
http://www.themilitantbaker.com/p/25-things-fat-people-shouldnt-do.html

sizeism (size discrimination): go!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on August 27, 2013, 12:23:59 pm
Isn't running like, a way to getting less fat though? So that's a bit of a contradiction.

Also honestly, I'm not surprised (but still think it's pretty shameful) that some people say these things.
The best thing to do, is to just ignore, and keep doing your thing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on August 27, 2013, 12:40:52 pm
I think it's stupid and childish, really; as a picture Bella reblogged on Tumblr once said, "If you find the sight of a large person to be absolutely disgusting, it's more that there's something wrong with you" (Rough quote)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on August 27, 2013, 01:39:13 pm
Quote from: LeaflameSD on August 26, 2013, 07:21:52 am
http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/08/sopa-felony-copyright-streaming
Looks like the US government are gonna bring back SOPA, any thoughts on this?


It's Not SOPA though. I mean, yeah, it's a copyright protection law, but it isn't SOPA. It isn't related to SOPA. Does it suck? Yes. Does it suck as much as SOPA? Not nearly.

Sorry for sounding aggravated, but the entire internet has been whining about SOPA being brought back when that's not the case.

Quote from: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2013, 12:18:12 pm
http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2012/08/25-things-fat-people-shouldnt-do.html
http://www.themilitantbaker.com/p/25-things-fat-people-shouldnt-do.html

sizeism (size discrimination): go!


Sizeism, like lookism, racism, sexism or any other -ism is complete bullshit and needs to be collectively thrown off a cliff by society pronto.

Fat people are just like "average"-sized people, thin people, curvy people, muscular people, morbidly obese people, dangerously underweight people, etc. Regardless of what you think of their bodies or what opinions you have about how they got to be that size, they're still people and need to be treated with respect and dignity. People should be judged on their personalities and deeds rather than what their bodies look like, because that's a shit way of figuring out what a person is like.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2013, 02:31:46 pm
bells, i read the first sentence as "society potato".

i think we're all in favour here. the only thing i'm against is when a 300+ lb person wears a size 3 piece of clothing, but that's more because they're trying to be something they're not, and wearing proper size clothing is important both on the inside and the outside. tbh though it's none of my business and have been told not to wear certain pieces of clothing before, and damn did it hurt. (that was more because i was so tall, though.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on August 27, 2013, 02:39:49 pm
Indeed. Always frustrated me as a kid when I'd be told "you're a boy; you can't wear dresses", and nobody would give a straight answer as to why girls could wear whatever the fuck they want beyond the usual (and grammatically incorrect) "because I said so" clause :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2013, 03:09:23 pm
listen to the song "Man! I Feel Like a Woman" and come back to me. xD
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on August 27, 2013, 04:56:25 pm
Quote from: Bella on August 27, 2013, 01:39:13 pm
It's Not SOPA though. I mean, yeah, it's a copyright protection law, but it isn't SOPA. It isn't related to SOPA. Does it suck? Yes. Does it suck as much as SOPA? Not nearly.

Sorry for sounding aggravated, but the entire internet has been whining about SOPA being brought back when that's not the case.

Well I mean, it said SOPA so I just assumed that... sorry.

*shuts up and walks away*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on August 27, 2013, 04:58:47 pm
It's not your fault, every tech news site is claiming it's SOPA Revived instead of a different bill entirely. I found an excellent explanation of the differences between this bill and SOPA yesterday ... but I can't find the link at the moment. (I KNEW I should've bookmarked it.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2013, 05:36:21 pm
i got a message from spence this morning saying SOPA was revived and that i should "spread the word". 4 problems with this argument

1. i had just woken up and was not coherent enough for politics
2. i'm not motivated enough for this kind of politics anyway
3. tbh i found it hard to believe that SOPA itself had come back
4. i don't believe in chain letters

the fact is, the majority of americans either don't care enough about it or are pirates themselves. the government has bigger fish to fry atm. the moral outrage isn't there. it's doomed to fail.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on August 27, 2013, 05:41:04 pm
Hmm, I guess you're right.

I don't even know why I'm bothered by this TBH, I'm not even from the US.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2013, 07:00:18 pm
it could be because if the US adopts this policy the UK might not be far behind. once the US backs something other countries tend to follow suit.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on September 03, 2013, 01:34:36 pm
;-; sorry
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on September 05, 2013, 11:35:27 am
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/batwoman-writers-depart-dc-comics-after-lesbian-superheros-wedding-is-prohibited-8799900.html

discuss the bullshit!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on September 05, 2013, 12:16:37 pm
It is bullshit, and I am not surprised.

Sacrifice, anyone? The ravens can always use more blood.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on September 05, 2013, 01:52:23 pm
Doesn't surprise me out of DC Comics. I mean, this is the came company that:

- Introduced a popular character from their Young Justice animated series into the Teen Titans comics...only to kill her off in the same issue (see: Linkara's review of The Culling: Part 1).
- Refusing to make a movie based on Wonder Woman because they claim "there's no market for a movie about a female superhero", due to Catwoman being a flop (Which was due to it being a poorly written, crappy movie).
- Once stated that they "don't publish comics for kids; they publish comics for 45-year-olds (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/08/quote-of-the-day-we-publish-comics-for-45-year-olds/)" when an author pitched an idea for a comic geared toward a younger demographic.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on September 05, 2013, 03:45:06 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on September 05, 2013, 12:16:37 pm
Sacrifice, anyone? The ravens can always use more blood.



yeeees.....yes they can....

all joking aside, i agree that this is complete and total BS and they should have let the creators know sooner that they were going to be asswads, so that they wouldn't have gotten invested in these storylines. my only hope now is that these lines get continued in some form, perhaps as a webcomic. >>;

to further expand on the topic (and pent's points, lol "pentspoints"), why do you think it is that western comics are geared in such a way? they weren't always so narrow-minded and "think inside the box". manga has NEVER been this way (hell, there is a manga for EVERY taste out there....even for those looking for a romantic comedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Princess) that centres around (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_Vegetables) cooking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cooking_anime_and_manga) ), and japan can actually be MORE conservative when it comes to gender and sexuality issues. usually the nerd community is so open and accepting, but i suppose this shows the darker side of the nerd community, the one with the fat, hairy guy in his mother's basement saying that you're not a "real" star wars fan unless you own every release of the star wars movie, even the controversial christmas special.

thoughts, people? bells should be here to chime in on this. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on September 05, 2013, 05:42:00 pm
I'm not sure, to be honest. Given the stereotype of comic book fans being homophobic males, they're likely afraid to try anything new in fear of alienating them; often shoving minority characters into the background. I'd say it'd be fear of changing things, but given how much I've heard about that was changed causing controversy in the fanbase (The miniseries, Spider-Man: One More Day, being a noteworthy example), I don't think that's the case here

There's also the whole belief that comics is a "boys only -- no girls allowed" (http://observationdeck.io9.com/mark-millar-and-todd-mcfarlane-ladies-comics-arent-f-1095912572) zone, as Mark Millar (Author of Kick-Ass) and a few others have said (Which, the article I linked to does also raise some other points on things they've said). This sort of mindset is why comics starring interesting, well-rounded female characters instead of "sexy cardboard cut-outs", as some put it, is so rare; the companies claim there's no market for it, so they refuse to even try. I honestly find it stupid that they think like this; given how my sister is responsible for introducing me to Power Rangers and Batman, among others, plus the fact of assuming that someone would be interested or not interested in something based solely on their gender is a really stupid way of thinking, but sadly, oh so common (As a kid, it felt like me being a boy and not being interested in football or another professional sport was a crime against humanity).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 24, 2013, 07:57:07 pm
it's another side of the multi-faceted gem that is gender and sexuality issues. i meant to comment on this sooner, but it seems i forgot/lost the links/both. >>;

(further reading from pent's article, btw)
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114150/mark-millar-kick-ass-2-author-comics-sickest-mind#
http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2013/08/08/2433121/legendary-superhero-creators-the-comics-follow-society-they-dont-lead-suggest-women-look-elsewhere/
http://comicsalliance.com/mark-millar-rape-kick-ass-2/

the idea that comics writers don't write stories that are gender or racially diverse "because that's the way things were/are done" or "no one wants to read those" or "because it'd be the token black/gay/female comic" or "because society likes it this way" is a lazy perspective on writing. Gerry Conway said in the second article i posted that it's a failure on the readers' part because "we condone the status quo" (or something like that), to which i call extreme bullshit. YOU sir, YOU are failing US. YOU who chooses to write a flat character simply because you cannot relate to said character or choose not to. at the very least, though, you're not as bad as Millar, who at this point condones rape as a storytelling tool, so at least you're not the FINAL circle of hell. (just the 5th or 6th.)


on an unrelated note, have an article i found on facebook. it gave me a laugh. -w-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tuenight/silly-things-people-have-said-to-me-when-i-tell-them-im-not-having-kids_b_4098642.html

EDIT: here, have something else to laugh at. -w-;;;
http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2013/10/18/2802871/book-matt-prove-size-stephen-jimenezs-ego/
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/17/former-nyt-editor-rebuts-stephen-jimenezs-claim/196469
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on October 29, 2013, 01:32:05 am
God, his reaction is infuriating. I don't think rape should be off-limits in storytelling, but authors have to check themselves and make sure it actually has a purpose, is treated with due gravity and isn't just thrown in for shock value, a regurgitated cliche, or worse still, to titillate the audience. The author of that first article makes a good point, something I've thought about too - when the rape of a woman is depicted as something that effects a male character, it's disgusting because it makes rape out to be a property crime, where the woman is just another "object" ruined and the real victim in the situation is the guy. I've thought a lot about why rape should be more taboo than, say, torture or murder or other acts of extreme violence; my conclusion was that rape is already trivialized and normalized in our society, while murder and torture are not. That article makes a good point though - you probably won't know anyone who is sliced apart by ninjas or hacked to death with a chainsaw, but rape is a very real threat that many people fear for good reason and for that reason alone it should be approached with extreme caution and sensitivity.

As for representation in comics - can they seriously dislodge their heads from their butts? I'm not fond of the state of female OR male representation in superhero comics (wow, more amply-muscled gods and goddesses in too-tight spandex? Such creative genius.), but would it kill them to make things more diverse? Also, I hate the idea that women and minorities are automatically token characters. We live in a diverse world, "white" and "male" isn't the default human being now, nor was it at any other time. Why don't authors get this?

As for that HuffPo article, well, if anyone tried this on me:
Quote"Why wouldn't you want to have children if your body is capable of it?"

...I would just reply with, "My fists are capable of smashing your teeth in, should I do that, too?"

I know I've written a lot here, but can we talk about this:

http://fuckyeahhardfemme.tumblr.com/post/65354225532/rosalarian-its-with-extreme-sadness-that-i

I think it's an important read for anyone who is planning to get into the art / comic industry on a commercial level.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 29, 2013, 02:25:03 am
i'm always apprehensive of that tagline since i'm worried i'm gonna be preached at. >>;

upon reading it, however, it rings true with so many sentiments of mine, that i refuse to ever fully sell the rights to MY work, that i will have lawyers involved from day one, that i will sue the pants off anyone who tries so much as to CLONE my stuff (or anyone on youtube who goes against my wishes for a live action Ace's High--never happening, never will). i feel awful for her, since the whole series sounds so wonderful. anyone here who has a comic like i do (which i believe none of the OSCers who did are around atm) knows the pain of this article, because it's your baby. you have so many ideas and plans for it, and want to nurture it and see it grow until it has reached its pinnacle and there is literally no more you can do with it. you want to be able to exahust EVERY idea you have for it, until you are left, 10 years later, exahusted and satisfied with both yourself and your creation. so to have that precious potential stolen away by someone so greedy, so eager to milk you for every drop they can, is a devastating blow.

being in print isn't worth sacrificing your art in the process. and if you feel it IS worth selling your comic's rights, well, you're no better than the soul-sucking corporations out to latch onto anything they can.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on October 29, 2013, 12:01:43 pm
Indeed. The best art is made by the people who have a passion for it, rather than the ones looking to make a quick buck :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 29, 2013, 12:32:53 pm
i'd rather keep the rights and have a small reader pool then sell them away to get attention. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on October 29, 2013, 12:35:44 pm
That wasn't directed at you. I wrote "anyone who is planning to get into the art industry" precisely because practically everyone on OSC is involved in creative arts (be it drawing/illustration, photography, comics, literature, music, I daresay programming as well) and this is something that could happen to anyone regardless of field. It also seemed germane since most of us have our own story universes we've devoted years of our lives to (several in the case of Nej, heh) and this serves as good cautionary tale against selling any rights to them without legal aid. Art is a labor of love regardless of the medium, and anyone who is a creator should know these dangers.

In my case - I do NOT plan on monetizing my art (I'm speaking in general terms here - anything from photography to literature to programming), mostly because that isn't my aim as an artist - I'm very much in the copyleft school of thought and would much rather have my art be "free", accessible and enjoyable to all, since the only thing I wish to achieve as an artist is creative expression and making other people happy. THAT BEING SAID, if somebody offered me a chance to deliver my art to a wider market via publishing, I would want to do that, even if I wasn't guaranteed to make much money from the venture. However, I would have to make sure I retained rights, and that they respected my licensing (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en_US), and several other factors. Wanting to be published doesn't necessarily indicate greed, is what I'm saying.

@Pent: I'm not under the impression that the author, in this case, was trying to make a quick buck. She sounded like she was a bit young and naive, but it doesn't sound like she had any illusions about making money of the publishing venture. Not really sure what gave you that impression.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on October 29, 2013, 01:07:47 pm
I said what I did in reference to this:
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on October 29, 2013, 02:25:03 am
being in print isn't worth sacrificing your art in the process. and if you feel it IS worth selling your comic's rights, well, you're no better than the soul-sucking corporations out to latch onto anything they can.

I mean, if they're so willing to lose the rights to their comic to get more money, they're like the musicians that only play just to make money, rather than make music.

As for that artist in the article, it was an unfortunate case of greedy corporations; she seemed like she cared greatly about her work :[
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 29, 2013, 06:21:54 pm
seconding pent here. and i never said wanting to be published indicated greed. i'm saying that there are greedy people out there who will sell their rights just to BE published. (and money, money is a big motivator here.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on October 29, 2013, 07:56:29 pm
This Just In: Some comic book artists are shitbirds!  Film at eleven.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on October 29, 2013, 08:26:40 pm
This just in: some people are rotten eggs! Occupation doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 29, 2013, 08:37:49 pm
BREAKING NEWS: People will do ANYTHING for money. Sports at 11.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on October 31, 2013, 06:42:33 pm

<-- This sport is now known as Football, everywhere and to everyone. --> This sport is now know known as Handegg.
Logic has been applied. Let the shitstorm commence
>I had to do it, because sports is apparently srsbsns to some people
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 31, 2013, 08:48:13 pm
i like how in football, you can't see all their junk. >>;

tbh though i agree with you, "football" isn't really an appropriate term and idk how it even came to describe that game, since the feet are barely ever in contact with the ball. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on October 31, 2013, 09:07:12 pm
I call US football "football" in speech with other 'murricans because I'm 'murrican and speak the native vernacular. I also call regular football "soccer" in speech with these people, because I'm more likely to be able to communicate clearly with them that way.

When speaking with non-United States citizens, I refer to US football as "US football" and soccer as "football", because they're more likely to understand me.

US football isn't actually a sport involving feet and balls (heh) but it's what it goes by here so I'm not gonna dwell on it. I mean, I'm neither biologically-sexless nor capable of reproducing without a partner, but I still call myself "asexual". Your nose isn't capable of dashing off your face, but you're gonna say it's "running" the next time you have a cold. Semantics can be tricky and it's best not to get too hung up on them, is what I'm saying.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 31, 2013, 09:36:55 pm
i more wonder how the term came to be in this context. with euro-football, it's obvious, but i'm wondering why they called it as such in the us. i mean, basketball and baseball are obvious too, so it's just a curiousity.

hockey is confusing in that context, too. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on October 31, 2013, 09:48:07 pm
Hockey - well, Ice hockey to be exact, and that part is obvious enough. At least it's not directly contradictory to its name - just another sports name, like "cricket".
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on October 31, 2013, 10:04:05 pm
I honestly despise American Football as a whole, and much prefer soccer; much to the bafflement of dad, who grew up in the "DURR SOCCER MAKE NO SENSE; WHY THEY NO USE HAND?" generation -____-;

I mean, at least football makes sense. American "Football" is somehow more nonsensical than Calvinball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinball#Calvinball)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on October 31, 2013, 10:13:29 pm
calvinball is the best game because it makes the MOST sense. :0

here, have a fresh pile of rage.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/30/2861021/halloween-candy-fat-letters/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on October 31, 2013, 10:28:24 pm
At least nobody I know of where I live is that much of an ass >_<

IMO that's worse than the dentist that gives out crappy toothbrushes that fall apart in your mouth. I don't mind when they give out decent toothbrushes, as it gives me a spare for when the one I'm currently using wears out, but they generally give out cheap ones like what is distributed to hospitals :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on November 01, 2013, 12:18:00 am
Quote from: Pent"DURR SOCCER MAKE NO SENSE; WHY THEY NO USE HAND?" generation -____-;


Correction: My 80 year old coworker who grew up in rural West Virginia is a lifelong soccer fanatic.  Apparently they played it in elementary-middle school.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 01, 2013, 12:50:52 am
Well, I guess it's different for Texas; where football is the greatest thing since the civil war :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 01, 2013, 11:07:05 am
as kids, we avoided the houses that gave out carrots. after awhile they learn.

as for this lady (if it's not a hoax), i hope she gets sued.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on November 02, 2013, 10:50:43 am
What were we talking about again?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 02, 2013, 11:35:05 am
I think K just crossposted in the wrong thread, lel
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 02, 2013, 11:42:18 am
@Nej: She was talking about the article she posted on the previous page; about the psycho woman giving out fat-shaming letters instead of candy on Halloween
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 02, 2013, 12:45:52 pm
Huh, i was sure i saw that in RPT

NEXT UP!

Insurance.
How much time/money do you spend on your plan? Do you know what it entails? What do you feel about insurance and insurance companies in general?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 02, 2013, 07:44:58 pm
nej, if you want a future career as an insurance adjuster, tell us in topicless.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 02, 2013, 08:20:35 pm
By no means! My insurance - as a student - is paid and cared for by the state, coincidentally maintained by the same government agency that my dad is a secret agent of. All hail communism and the Knights Templar!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 02, 2013, 09:41:14 pm
My insurance plan involves taking borderline-overdose amounts of vitamin C and D in an attempt to keep my immune system from collapsing, flu shots, surgical masks and lots and lots of hand sanitizing and going to the ER when can't bring my fever down / get the bleeding to stop / generally nurse myself back to health on my own. Just as the Founding Fathers intended.

Despite being super duper poor, unemployed, a student, and a dependent of somebody who isn't well-to-do either, I got kicked off of medicaid (the US's supposed healthcare system for "underprivileged" people, I say "supposed" because many people who should be able to take advantage of it are unable to) at the age of 20 and am unable to re-qualify. It seems likely that the ACA/"Obamacare" isn't going to help either, because the state I live in chose not to expand medicaid aid for low income people AND the poorest people are exempt from any insurance requirements (the irony is rich and bitter with this one). It's not insurance, but I'm a part of a Community Care program at the local hospital, basically people who report less than such-and-such amount on their tax returns can get highly discounted clinic visits, specialist medical care at something like 20% of the "sticker" price and $20 (or is it $50? I honestly forget) ER visits. The only routine medical care i get is dental care, and that's only because it's a lot cheaper to maintain teeth ($200-$300 for cleaning and xrays, twice a year) than it is to fix them (just having a filling RECONSTRUCTED cost me something like $250, extractions are twice that and root canals and the like can get close to a grand, or so I've heard).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 02, 2013, 10:44:30 pm
I don't have any sort of health insurance, and only did for a few months between dad starting at the hospital and when I started working there (Dad and I agreed to drop me from his insurance since I was told my position as equipment orderly would go full time in a year, which would have meant my own insurance. However, it never did before I was laid off). As a result of no insurance, I basically never went to the doctor unless it was an emergency (Like with the allergic reaction to some tainted chocolate) or whenever they ran some kind of event during the summer allowing young children to get free vaccinations. While there is a children's health insurance thing in Texas like what Bella talked about having up in NH, dad refused to let mom sign my sister and I up for it; because he felt we'd be "taking money away" from people that "need it more" (Even though it likely would have meant I would have received the chickenpox vaccine, which would have saved me over $600 in bills some 20 years later >_>; ).

I have "health insurance" through Pizza Hut that is basically just a prescription plan, and honestly is completely worthless :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 02, 2013, 11:04:54 pm
Sidetrack FiMFic drama: Just got like the third ragerant in a row from the same guy on one of my fics, complaining about favoritism and whatnot, and once again I play the patient card and bother writing up a reply for him. Then I realize I just said all these things to him in my last comment already, and start thinking if he might be some kind of trolldouche...

...lo and behold, his userpage blog post was a long haterant against Obamacare and how many billions of taxpayer dollar$ it will cost the state, and how stupid everyone is for buying into things like that.

I looked at my screen, went all, "Oh, this guy is a teaparty plebscum. He doesn't listen to people when they talk to him. OK.jpg" and proceeded to stop caring.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 02, 2013, 11:13:33 pm
Yeah; people like that are best to step away from.

I'm now reminded of a Tumblr someone on GameFAQs posted the link to; showcasing extreme racism on Twitter, with snark on part of the guy running the blog. Amusing when he pointed out that this one person, after posting some anti-Obama tweet, went on to tweet a few minutes later saying "NEW EPISODE OF DUCK DYNASTY IS ON!"
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 03, 2013, 01:23:51 am
i lol'd.

my insurance through the state ran out years ago. i briefly had insurance through my school (it was required if you didn't have insurance already, damn mass...) which was VURY expensive (something like $1500/semester) and i didn't even really get to use before i got kicked out anyway. i'd like to have insurance again, if only because it'd help with the NUMEROUS tooth problems i give myself and because i'm starting to think my eyes are getting worse (last eye exam was 3-4+ years ago), but i'm also very gunshy about supposed "free" insurance programs offered to me because either they're free in name only and are going to cost my DEARLY later or because they're going to be like pent's "insurance", meaning i'll be paying for something and getting basically nothing in return.

i live in a constant state of sick in the winter, which is making me a bit worried given i can't really go to the doctor anymore. most of the stuff i take is basic pharmacy stuff anyway, but having the OPTION to go to a medical professional was really, REALLY nice.
though it's just as nice to not be bothered about things like physicals and the like every time i go there. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 03, 2013, 07:43:04 pm
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=11830

i'm sick to my stomach, and that's not just because i'm ACTUALLY sick.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 04, 2013, 05:40:13 am
Well that's disgusting. When are we shooting this woman dead? I have an axe to grind.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 04, 2013, 10:22:13 am
you, me, and half the world would like to see her assassinated, master. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 04, 2013, 11:54:00 am
>PETA

I basically ignore anything they say; bunch of scumbags that are basically like some sort of KKK for so-called animal rights activists :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 05, 2013, 11:13:47 am
i was fine when they were just hating on meat-eaters and kill-shelters. this is going too far.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 05, 2013, 02:31:45 pm
It's blatant hippocracy. No where near an accident, I'm guessing they believe that because the animals were in captivity that they were tainted. They want to be right so bad, yet they are as bad as the Westborough Baptist Church.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 05, 2013, 02:54:53 pm
>Hippocracy
gods, my sides

Sorry man, but that misspelling is just fucking hilarious.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 05, 2013, 02:55:19 pm
blame spell check.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 05, 2013, 03:02:37 pm
found something on facebook for you.

[spoiler]On Aug, 28th, '12, on a flight from Miami to San Francisco, United airlines killed my 2.5 year old Mastiff, BamBam. United's "Pet Safe" program guarantees that your pet will be in an acclimated, a/c equipped cargo facility or Pet Safe van to and from the plane. All other airlines require a Certificate of Acclimation to fly, only United does not because of Pet Safe. On the day we flew, no other airline would have allowed us to fly because of the extreme temperatures in Miami AND in Houston, only United because of their program and their guarantee that pets remain in an air conditioned environment at all times. Cargo facilities, vans to and from the plane, the cargo hold. They broke every promise they made to us.

We had a 3+ hour layover in Houston. Again, we could have flown an airline with a direct flight, but none of them offer the security, or guarantee of constant a/c that United offers. This is of paramount importance for a giant breed such as a Neapolitan Mastiff. After being seated in Houston for the San Francisco leg of our journey, watching out the window for the Pet Safe van, BamBam arrived on an metal closed sided luggage cart, not a van, looking hotter than we had ever seen him. My boy who was used to Miami temperatures. It was 97 in Houston on the tarmac that day. Outraged at the lack of a van and how hot he looked, but assuming he would cool down once inside the plane, and the airplane doors already locked, we watched them load him and we took off to San Francisco. Never, not once did it occur to me that he had been in that condition for close to four hours, since we landed in Houston.

BamBam was dead on arrival. My beautiful baby boy. We were told he must be sent back to Houston for an autopsy, and so began four dreadful weeks of corporate America denying responsibility, non information, ridiculous necropsy interpretations and insulting offers. Eventually United offered us a return of his flight costs, the cost of his necropsy/cremation and travel vouchers.

We have since found out from United employees that at no time in Houston was BamBam ever in a/c. He was removed from the plane, set under the wing on the tarmac until a luggage cart came for him. He was then transferred to a "USDA approved holding area with a cross breeze from open windows and fans" instead of the cargo area with a/c as promised. We have now been told in layovers of under 4 hours, NO animal is taken into the cargo area, only the "holding area." Something we had never been told or accepted. No van would have been unacceptable, but no cargo area at the hight of summer? Outrageous. After 2+ hours he was put back onto a luggage cart and kept outside for another 40 minutes to travel 4 gates...until we saw him.

He never had a chance. We have now learned that every 9 days a pet dies on a commercial airline. Yet the airline industry holds all the cards. Almost zero regulation, accountability or informing of the public of the actual dangers of airline flight, even though his one way ticket was double my round trip. The airline and law consider him "luggage" and my recourse has been exactly that. In fact, only "pet" deaths are reported, not the hundreds of deaths of commercial animals, breeding pets, livestock, exotics, primates, etc. How can the public not be informed of this?

Unless you are prepared to take the exact same chance with your pet as with your bag, do not fly your pet on a commercial airline. The last words to me beautiful baby boy as I loaded him in the crate at the United cargo terminal, were,...

"Be a good boy, I'll be back for you, I promise." For 4 hours in a heat wave, as his body was closing down, as United's "trained" personnel walked by and ignored his distress, is this what went through his mind? If he was just a good boy I'd be back for him.

United broke every single promise they made to us. They killed my baby boy and tried to buy me off with travel vouchers and a complete denial of any responsibility on their part.[/spoiler]

http://www.change.org/petitions/united-airlines-have-petsafe-program-policies-changed-to-protect-the-animal-and-owner?share_id=cwunJnzRAj&utm_campaign=friend_inviter_chat&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=permissions_dialog_false
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 05, 2013, 03:12:27 pm
Thankyou, I signed it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 05, 2013, 06:55:21 pm
it's a travesty. i signed too, but according to new facebook friend it's not valid since i didn't give my "real" address.

idk if that's true, but whatever. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 05, 2013, 08:17:43 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on November 05, 2013, 02:31:45 pm
It's blatant hippocracy. No where near an accident, I'm guessing they believe that because the animals were in captivity that they were tainted. They want to be right so bad, yet they are as bad as the Westborough Baptist Church.


There are two schools of thought about PETA's mass-slaughter of pets. The first suggests that they're killing them because sheltering pets require money, effort and commitment, and of course being a bottom-line corporation, PETA is unwilling to put forward any of these things. (Because why the hell would they use their money to actually, you know, save the animals whose rights they claim to champion when they could use it to fund body-shaming (http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/18/peta-fat-shaming-and-consequences/), racist (http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/10/peta-racism-goes-into-overload/) and sexist (http://adland.tv/adnews/petas-top-five-most-offensive-and-most-sexist-ads/1276091868) advertising and pushing a wacky vegan agenda?)

As you touched on, the second school of thought claims that PETA kills most of the animals they rescue because they believe domesticated animals are held in a state of continual oppression and suffering, and the only way to end their "torture" is to kill them. (This goes for well-cared for, wanted pets as well as neglected and abused ones, obviously.) Despite what the president of PETA has said, I don't think it's clear if they're mass-euthanizing animals for financial or ideological reasons.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 06, 2013, 12:30:01 pm
i disagree. the Penn & Teller Bullshit! episode on PETA speaks to their ideas about "animal rights", claiming that they (animals) should be afforded all the same rights as humans, such as owning property and voting.

this, of course, standing next to their idea that animals should not be kept in cages. which, if they were given the same rights as humans, would land them in jail for public defecation and tax evasion anyway. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 15, 2013, 12:42:18 pm
not looking to debate on this topic (the last time we did it resulted in an epic stalemate leading to the conclusion that we should never debate it again), but i figured it deserved more attention than just putting it in topicless. scary shit, dude.

http://memolition.com/2013/10/16/time-lapse-map-of-every-nuclear-explosion-ever-on-earth/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 15, 2013, 01:23:31 pm
Not really sure there is anything I could say on this topic.
Explosions are scary, other than that I have one other topic

Do you think single gender schools do better with academics?
Why?
If it a good thing or simple discrimination.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 15, 2013, 01:27:16 pm
academics don't depend solely on whether you're male or female. it has to do with teacher competency, educational standards, iq scores and willingness to accomodate those outside of the norm, and relying on more than just one method of learning (because, as we all know, not everyone can learn from memorizing a textbook).

so no, i don't think they'd do better solely by excluding a gender. on the contrary, they likely learn more by interaction with a wider range of people.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 15, 2013, 01:54:32 pm
I'm in complete agreement with Kari here.

Stew will DEFINITELY disagree with me on this point, but I'm not fond of the idea of single-gender learning institutions. I mean kids of all genders should interact and learn to work together, maybe if more boys had female friends (and more girls had male friends) growing up, there would be less gender stereotyping, more respect and better relations between the genders. (After all, it's harder to blindly dislike / hate a group of people if you grew up around them and learned to treat them as equals and friends.) I'm not saying that it's the be-all and end-all solution to problems between the genders, but it helps. Plus, as Kari pointed out, part of school is learning to work with different kinds of people, and you're missing out on part of that in a single-gender institution.

Some "feminists" (generally radfems or separatist feminists, who argue that women should keep separate from men) argue that gendered institutions are okay because they allow women "safe spaces" free of men, but I think that's a dangerous belief. If you're pro-gender equality, you should WANT more social interaction between the genders. You should WANT women working and playing and competing with and befriending men. Then again, many radfems argue that they don't want women to be equal with men, they just want them to be "liberated". Lulz.

This isn't even bringing up the question of people who identify outside the gender binary; obviously, participation in single-gender institutions would be very difficult, maybe even impossible for them. :/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 15, 2013, 02:02:08 pm
bells' last point is why i'm both an advocate for and against uniforms. on the one hand, uniforms create a sense of unity and equality that can sometimes be compromised by cliques forming based on "who's wearing the 'right' clothes". if everyone is wearing the same thing, it's a blank slate, and everyone can be judged equally.

on the other hand, this scenario is like communism. it works on paper, where everyone gets what they need and we all live in harmony and unity, but the reality here is that mankind is greedy and works on a pack mentality. in the end, a lot of times the clothes will help prevent nothing due to a person's nature just being rotten.

uniforms also quash freedom of expression and encourage a gender standard that modern society is trying to break, which can be dangerous and undermining to the entire equality movement.

if a school has uniforms, i believe they should act like the ones in Ace's High: be flexible with choices and customization. a girl's academic work will not suffer if she wears pants.

(of course, this also brings to light the idea of boys wearing skirts, which i am personally okay with, but is for some reason banned by societal standards...)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 15, 2013, 03:24:22 pm
I think single-gender schools are generally pointless. I mean, I remember with church how we had our "Christian friendly alternatives" to Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts (Royal Ambassadors and Girls in Action, respectively), and after how much sexist bullshit cropped up in my final year of RA, they scrapped both and had both genders in one group under a different name. TBH it worked a lot better; it cut a lot of the crap.

Also, on school uniforms, I have to agree with Kari. Also, I do think boys should be allowed to wear skirts if they want; after all, skirts are comfy and I'd love to be able to wear one in public whenever I want, without having to go into full trap mode first. Maybe I should move to Scotland and get myself a badass kilt -w-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 15, 2013, 05:25:39 pm
you don't need to move to scotland to rock a kilt. just come here.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on November 15, 2013, 08:30:27 pm
Quote from: BellsStew will DEFINITELY disagree with me on this point


No I won't because I don't read this thread.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 16, 2013, 10:48:48 am
strange, i figured this would be one of the ones you paid attention to. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 16, 2013, 11:44:57 am
Kilts are freeing. Sorry I just had to.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 16, 2013, 03:47:28 pm
kilts are awesome. all in favour?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 16, 2013, 03:58:22 pm
Yes -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 16, 2013, 06:51:33 pm
Aye!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on November 17, 2013, 11:51:04 pm
> Candace is on Tumblr again
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 18, 2013, 09:55:43 am
is that an actual nichijou face, or did they photoshop some other face in

cause that looks familiar, but not in a nichijou context.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on November 19, 2013, 10:11:46 pm
That's an actual Nichijou face.  One of the many off-model styles they employ.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 19, 2013, 11:48:25 pm
Ahhh, tbh I figured as such, thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 20, 2013, 02:46:14 am
I'm gonna tumbl so much and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 20, 2013, 01:15:37 pm
this alone is a hot-button topic.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on November 20, 2013, 08:50:10 pm
I don't even know what's so huge about tumblr, only that 4chan accuses it of being populated by le landwhales and other various undesirables. TBH IDC.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 20, 2013, 08:54:26 pm
i don't really care too much either, but i browse once in awhile. for the most part it seems to be the land of Homestuckers and Hipsters. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 20, 2013, 11:17:24 pm
At least the corner I browse is mostly fans of Doctor Who, Sherlock, Supernatural, AT4W (and other TGWTG), and author John Green -w-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 22, 2013, 09:08:40 pm
I hang out in the art, anime and social issues side of tumblr.

Tbh, Tumblr is very much a double-edged sword. It's awesome because it's given a voice and community to a lot of under-represented, once-isolated individuals - just looking at things from an LGBTQA perspective, tumblr has quite a thriving asexual community, genderqueer community and pansexual community. By a lot of people's own admissions, tumblr has introduced them to concepts they wouldn't have otherwise been familiar with, and made them more sensitive and conscious of the needs of others.

At the same time though, I loathe Social Justice Run Amok. Saying all men / white people / straight people / [insert other privileged group here] are oppressors and abusers isn't going to help anyone or anything, and in fact will make a lot of people resent social justice causes. There's also the matter of the Oppression Olympics - when members of oppressed groups argue about who has it worse. Ones that pop up quite often are, "Oh, you're asexual? You don't face the same level of discrimination gays and bisexuals do, ergo you don't belong in the LGBTQ community." and "Oh, you're bisexual? You benefit from straight privilege, so you shouldn't compare your plight to that of gay people." It's ridiculous, pointless bickering between under-privileged groups of people. People who should be working together, not tearing each other down.

At the same time though, sometimes things can get too broad. PoC (people of color, the politically-correct term for non-white groups [which actually makes more sense than "minority", since non-white ethnicities are the majority on a global scale]) rights and issues is one such area. Certainly in white/western nations, PoC face discrimination, but painting them with a broad brush ignores the varying levels of discrimination each race faces. (For instance, you can hardly compare the discrimination that Asian-Americans face with that of African-Americans.) Going back to the LGBTQA example, using "LGBTQA" or "Queer" as a catch-all term for non-straight/non-cis identities makes sense when you want to talk about the inherent discrimination that non-straight/non-cis people face, but it glosses over the fact that bisexuals, gays, asexuals, trans* people, genderqueer people, etc., all face different forms of discrimination and have different experiences and needs.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 22, 2013, 09:16:40 pm
i use the latter terms as catch-alls and never intend any offense by them. :\

as for the OppresOlympics, that's just dumb, and frankly i'd like to think that civilized, educated people wouldn't get into such petty spats. after all, being gay doesn't make you smart, and being straight doesn't make you dumb. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on November 22, 2013, 11:39:49 pm
Quote from: Chocoas for the OppresOlympics, that's just dumb, and frankly i'd like to think that civilized, educated people wouldn't get into such petty spats.


Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 23, 2013, 08:09:19 pm
See, that's what I'd like to think, not what I expect.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 25, 2013, 05:20:28 pm
I FOUND YOU SOME PRESENTS

Racism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOud8JnGWRE

Women's Rights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8M-zS5dSP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-lZNiHsHxQ

Education
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKx326kPmA8

Gay/Transgender Rights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_B6qXZg3-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLDP8tdeqpY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpVdKTxiPF4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxeFVWqX4NM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GD75J_Ph8Y (could also fall under Crazy Standards of Beauty)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjBssJuy7gY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkUDc7IEUoE


Religion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdc9ijPRUdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVRm_wHcBR0

Crazy Standards of Beauty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrqc-VYaMTg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD36Z-7hsb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EOgkA3p9zI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKgJYVFqdnQ

General WTF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1qGbjj8FLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUszQmicDr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72MgvvTIw_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4oRlCbPm3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vPnpHDSxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMiTCeFwI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeztZ3sz4ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rsq2xJp_kk


(in retrospect i sort of regret posting this many videos, but i went on a TYT kick this afternoon so if i were you, i'd pick the section i'm most interested in and watch those. ^^;;;;; )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on December 03, 2013, 03:08:02 pm
In regards to tumblr, it is what you make it to be, your page is what ever you post on it, if you don't like what you see look for new pages and remove the old ones from your follow list. There is a search bar on top for looking for the things you want. Nothing is on your page by surprise, it's all about who you follow.
I love that site, I run two tumblrs, one pg and the other x.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 03, 2013, 04:51:22 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on December 03, 2013, 03:08:02 pm
In regards to tumblr, it is what you make it to be, your page is what ever you post on it, if you don't like what you see look for new pages and remove the old ones from your follow list. There is a search bar on top for looking for the things you want. Nothing is on your page by surprise, it's all about who you follow.
I love that site, I run two tumblrs, one pg and the other x.


Exactly. You see what you want. Your dashboard reflects your interests, and even in some aspects, your personality. Its a curated experience.

I personally have alot of blogs on there, and 3 main accounts. 4 RP blogs, 2 personal blogs (one rarely used, the other PG - X and used often), one Microsoft blog, one dessert blog, a website built on tumblr using html, and a (closed/redirected) adult blog.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on December 03, 2013, 05:06:14 pm
Tumblr has pretty art.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on December 03, 2013, 05:20:31 pm
I hate it when there are asses all over my dashboard.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 03, 2013, 06:13:43 pm
Well, that depends on the shapeliness of said asses, does it not?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 03, 2013, 08:41:00 pm
indeed it does.

i'm likely going to put a music player on my tumblr, despite me getting annoyed whenever I find them on other peoples'. I feel like a hypocrite for doing that but I don't care enough for it to affect my judgment. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on December 04, 2013, 03:03:35 am
Leaf:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFZj6Fnq4G4)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on December 04, 2013, 08:32:05 am
Quote from: Krizonar on December 03, 2013, 05:06:14 pm
Tumblr has pretty art.

Yes, yes it does
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on December 04, 2013, 09:56:43 am
Quote from: stewartsage on December 04, 2013, 03:03:35 am
Leaf:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFZj6Fnq4G4)

o u
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 05, 2013, 11:56:49 pm
Im curious what your guys' opinions on furries are?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on December 06, 2013, 01:47:25 am
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 01:53:49 am
Quote from: stewartsage on December 06, 2013, 01:47:25 am



I know neither what this is from nor what this GIF means...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 06, 2013, 02:02:51 am
Two guys are laughing their asses off and handing another guy their guns. One other guy looks like he's mentally facepalming with the force of ten suns. Go figure. it means "go kill yourself"
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 02:25:32 am
Quote from: NejinOniwa on December 06, 2013, 02:02:51 am
Two guys are laughing their asses off and handing another guy their guns. One other guy looks like he's mentally facepalming with the force of ten suns. Go figure. it means "go kill yourself"


so much for having a semi-serious discussion... Then again, shame on me for expecting such, based on the two posts before my question.

Edit: Would you look at that, hidden text... Seriously? Or just more random, non pertinent joking per usual.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 06, 2013, 10:34:00 am
if I recall that gif is from super troopers. correct me if i'm wrong.

I have many furry friends, and while i'm not a furry myself, I have no problem with them.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 06, 2013, 10:59:06 am
DO YOU EVEN WHITETEXT BRO
Just translaterpreting Stew's image. Personally I couldn't give two shits about furries; it's never been a prominent issue around here (frozen north and whatnot), and all the contact I've had with them is 4chan. Which isn't really unbiased, to say the least.

I'm sure there are decent people who are furries out there, and as long as they don't do weirder shit than that one might as well let them do whatever they want in that regard. Hell, I don't think I've even SEEN a furry in action, so to speak.

So while I think the phenomenon itself is pretty dumb and the people doing it are a bit kook for it, it's a bit like christianity. I don't mind them as long as they don't spew their stuff all over my space/webs.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 11:10:19 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 06, 2013, 10:34:00 am
if I recall that gif is from super troopers. correct me if i'm wrong.

I have many furry friends, and while i'm not a furry myself, I have no problem with them.


that's cool. ( ^w^)
at least someone responded appropriately ( >w>)
Still don't understand the purpose of that GIF, though...

Quote from: NejinOniwa on December 06, 2013, 10:59:06 am
DO YOU EVEN WHITETEXT BRO
Just translaterpreting Stew's image. Personally I couldn't give two shits about furries; it's never been a prominent issue around here (frozen north and whatnot), and all the contact I've had with them is 4chan. Which isn't really unbiased, to say the least.
No. You don't say./sarcasm

Quote from: NejinOniwa on December 06, 2013, 10:59:06 am
I'm sure there are decent people who are furries out there, and as long as they don't do weirder shit than that one might as well let them do whatever they want in that regard. Hell, I don't think I've even SEEN a furry in action, so to speak.

So while I think the phenomenon itself is pretty dumb and the people doing it are a bit kook for it, it's a bit like christianity. I don't mind them as long as they don't spew their stuff all over my space/webs.
I guess you have a valid point Though, people would say the same about OS-tans (its just a matter of what's being anthropomorphized.) and comparing it to Christianity is a bit extreme, don't you think?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 06, 2013, 11:12:44 am
you misattributed the third quote block to me. but all the furries I've met are lovely people who have a bad rep largely due to 4chan and the media. their business is their business, end of story.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 11:18:17 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 06, 2013, 11:12:44 am
you misattributed the third quote block to me. but all the furries I've met are lovely people who have a bad rep largely due to 4chan and the media. their business is their business, end of story.


I know. I caught right after I hit post and fixed it. I'm on my phone and copied the wrong quote block
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on December 06, 2013, 11:39:02 am
I like furies, especially when the artist is good at drawing it, a good "realistic" art style.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 06, 2013, 11:51:25 am
I have no real issue with furries. Well, I have some problem with the more obsessed ones who try to shove their fetish down the throats of others, but then again, I hate any sort of people who try to shove something they like down the throat of another, so that in itself is not a problem limited to the furry fandom.

Besides, if you can look past the awkward hentai and lazy Sonic the Hedgehog recolors, there are some really cool character designs out there that come from that fandom :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 12:04:08 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on December 06, 2013, 11:51:25 am
I have no real issue with furries. Well, I have some problem with the more obsessed ones who try to shove their fetish down the throats of others, but then again, I hate any sort of people who try to shove something they like down the throat of another, so that in itself is not a problem limited to the furry fandom.

Besides, if you can look past the awkward hentai and lazy Sonic the Hedgehog recolors, there are some really cool character designs out there that come from that fandom :3


Lol. I think Furries, as far as the fandom are concerned, are layered (like an onion). The outer layer is people, who would fall under the basic definition of "fans of anthropomorphic animals", while the core, innermost part is practically a subculture, complete with variations on and changes to societal rules and its own community, almost functioning like a separate society. The sonic-recolorers are usually in the outermost layers, with usually very few exceptions.

Some of the art is cool though, both SFW and NSFW.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on December 06, 2013, 07:31:56 pm
There's a middle layer that neither irritates nor disgusts me, but that's not the point of the gif or anything else.

The scene from Super Troopers breaks down thusly:

The man leaning into the gif is Farva, one of several troopers at a Vermont police barracks, and the most disliked.  Everyone else is a fun-loving nice guy and all his attempts at pranks tend to turn out horribly.   The three gathered in frame for most of the gif have just had a conversation with their Captain in which he has told them to reign in their shenanigans to avoid the barracks being closed, followed by their using the word shenanigans numerous times to the point of annoyance at which he threatens the next person to say shenanigans with being pistol whipped.  Mac (the officer with the pistol) calls to Farva and asks what his favorite resteraunt is, to which he replies 'Shenanigans' and everyone laughs with Mac offering said pistol for the whipping to Captain O'Hagan who glares at them all.

In case you're not up to reading that; it was a layered metaphor but you can still go fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:04:12 pm
I'm not a furry, but I can appreciate well-crafted anthro art. Heck, I've even drawn some before, though I'm really not the best at drawing animals so it doesn't happen very often.

People who mock furries (or homestucks, bronies, anime fans, or members of any other popular-and-divisive fandom) for the sheer sake of them being furries are 2edgy4me. Like, how do you even contain that cool? Really though, it's hard for me to be judgmental when I participate in quite a few fandoms that others might find strange or mockable. I want to personally strangle all the dumbasses who reduce the MLP fandom to "fedora'd neckbeards fapping over colorful ponies", so it's really, really, really hard for me not to sympathize with members of other groups who take shit for the questionable choices made at the fringes of their fandoms.

I mean, yeah, there are fetishy types in the furry fandom, but the same can be said for literally. every. other. fandom. Like, ever, in the history of fandoms. And honestly, as long as they're are engaging in their fetishes behind closed doors in a safe and consensual manner, I really don't give a fuck what they're doing (which is exactly how I feel about folks who're into any other legal, consensual sexual activity).

Otherkins are a different story, but I'm willing to tolerate them as long as they don't do dumb shit like compare themselves to transgender people or PoC or "act on their animal instincts" (I'm looking at you, random kids in cafeteria who were talking about murdering birds because of their cat natures).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 08:10:39 pm
Quote from: stewartsage on December 06, 2013, 07:31:56 pm
There's a middle layer that neither irritates nor disgusts me, but that's not the point of the gif or anything else.

The scene from Super Troopers breaks down thusly:

The man leaning into the gif is Farva, one of several troopers at a Vermont police barracks, and the most disliked.  Everyone else is a fun-loving nice guy and all his attempts at pranks tend to turn out horribly.   The three gathered in frame for most of the gif have just had a conversation with their Captain in which he has told them to reign in their shenanigans to avoid the barracks being closed, followed by their using the word shenanigans numerous times to the point of annoyance at which he threatens the next person to say shenanigans with being pistol whipped.  Mac (the officer with the pistol) calls to Farva and asks what his favorite resteraunt is, to which he replies 'Shenanigans' and everyone laughs with Mac offering said pistol for the whipping to Captain O'Hagan who glares at them all.

In case you're not up to reading that; it was a layered metaphor but you can still go fuck yourself.



I still don't geddit... are you actually telling me to go eff myself? Or is there something im missing?

I also realized that that one part of the fandom that trolls 4chan, treats furries as a fetish, and tries to shove it down peoples throats, giving furries a bad name, is that part of the onion that makes you cry.

Quote from: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:04:12 pm
I'm not a furry, but I can appreciate well-crafted anthro art. Heck, I've even drawn some before, though I'm really not the best at drawing animals so it doesn't happen very often.

People who mock furries (or homestucks, bronies, anime fans, or members of any other popular-and-divisive fandom) for the sheer sake of them being furries are 2edgy4me. Like, how do you even contain that cool? Really though, it's hard for me to be judgmental when I participate in quite a few fandoms that others might find strange or mockable.


OS-tans would be a prime example. Some would find it strange/mockable, the anthropomorphic personifications of Operating Systems.

Quote from: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:04:12 pm
I mean, yeah, there are fetishy types in the furry fandom, but the same can be said for literally. every. other. fandom. Like, ever, in the history of fandoms.


Our own gallery could, technically, prove this point.

Quote from: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:04:12 pm
And honestly, as long as they're are engaging in their fetishes behind closed doors in a safe and consensual manner, I really don't give a fuck what they're doing (which is exactly how I feel about folks who're into any other legal, consensual sexual activity).


Very mature and well said opinion, bella.

Quote from: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:04:12 pm
Otherkins are a different story, but I'm willing to tolerate them as long as they don't do dumb shit like compare themselves to transgender people or PoC or "act on their animal instincts" (I'm looking at you, random kids in cafeteria who were talking about murdering birds because of their cat natures).


Whats an "otherkin"? ???
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:27:06 pm
Thanks Dustii. And yeah, OS-tans ARE one of the fandoms I was thinking of. (Although Hetalia and the personification fandom at large may've softened some folks' impressions of the OS-tan fandom, it's still really weird to explain to anyone who isn't familiar with the concept of humanization).

Otherkin are people who "believe" they are animals in the bodies of humans. I put quotes around that because I'm not sure how many sincerely believe it, and how many just think it sounds cool or inspirational or whatever.

I mean, I suppose it's harmless enough in and of itself, but some otherkins claim that they deserve civil rights protections on-par with the ones given to LGBTQA people or, PoC. Others say they their oppression is on-par with that faced by trans* people, which is ridiculous and insulting for a whole number of reasons I shouldn't even have to get into here.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 08:50:45 pm
Quote from: Bella on December 06, 2013, 08:27:06 pm
Thanks Dustii. And yeah, OS-tans ARE one of the fandoms I was thinking of. (Although Hetalia and the personification fandom at large may've softened some folks' impressions of the OS-tan fandom, it's still really weird to explain to anyone who isn't familiar with the concept of humanization).

Otherkin are people who "believe" they are animals in the bodies of humans. I put quotes around that because I'm not sure how many sincerely believe it, and how many just think it sounds cool or inspirational or whatever.

I mean, I suppose it's harmless enough in and of itself, but some otherkins claim that they deserve civil rights protections on-par with the ones given to LGBTQA people or, PoC. Others say they their oppression is on-par with that faced by trans* people, which is ridiculous and insulting for a whole number of reasons I shouldn't even have to get into here.


Honestly, they sound like extremist lifestylers.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 07, 2013, 12:08:00 am
Indeed :\

As for people generalizing groups, I honestly hate that so much; like saying that fans of [TV show \ game \ movie \ book \ etc] are all "freaks" because of the vocal minority. I mean, there are perfectly sane Twilight fans, believe it or not; ones that simply enjoy the books, however bad they might be, and don't obsess over wanting to be a vampire or whatever.

Likewise, there are also insane fans of just about anything. I remember Saturday Night Live once did a sketch, formatted like a documentary, on a group of teenage boys who were obsessed with The Golden Girls; watching it religiously, dressing like the main cast, reenacting their favorite episodes, and attempting to mail ideas to the studio for new episodes (Failing to realize the show ended years ago; as one of their mothers pointed out). While a very funny sketch, it does raise a good point that you'll find some people in any fandom who go a little too far; no matter what it might be.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 07, 2013, 12:28:23 am
Quote from: PentiumMMX on December 07, 2013, 12:08:00 am
Indeed :\

As for people generalizing groups, I honestly hate that so much; like saying that fans of [TV show \ game \ movie \ book \ etc] are all "freaks" because of the vocal minority. I mean, there are perfectly sane Twilight fans, believe it or not; ones that simply enjoy the books, however bad they might be, and don't obsess over wanting to be a vampire or whatever.

Likewise, there are also insane fans of just about anything. I remember Saturday Night Live once did a sketch, formatted like a documentary, on a group of teenage boys who were obsessed with The Golden Girls; watching it religiously, dressing like the main cast, reenacting their favorite episodes, and attempting to mail ideas to the studio for new episodes (Failing to realize the show ended years ago; as one of their mothers pointed out). While a very funny sketch, it does raise a good point that you'll find some people in any fandom who go a little too far; no matter what it might be.


I also think "too far" is relative to the fandom. Furries, it's common, or at minimum, acceptable, at least, to dress as one's furry personification for conventions and events, and even behaving like an animal for sake of play or acting is ok, and cosplaying OS-tans has no harm either. But behaving like a dog and wearing a fursuit 24/7, or thinking you are actually an OS-tan, and go around behaving like one, is obsessive and unacceptable.

As with any fandom: there is a thin fine line between "fandom" and "obsession"
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 12:22:31 pm
Quote from: DustiiWolf on December 07, 2013, 12:28:23 am
But behaving like a dog and wearing a fursuit 24/7, or thinking you are actually an OS-tan, and go around behaving like one, is obsessive and unacceptable.


you say obsessive and unacceptable, I say "it's their life".

there's a TLC show called my strange obsession. one episode featured a furry girl who liked to go out in her fursuit. i'll admit that she probably shouldn't go into town like that, but if it's on her own time, who the fuck cares? if she wants to run around the woods with her fellow furry friends, who the hell are we to say she can't.

after all, there was a time when I ran around the woods pretending to be a wizard (well, mostly peasant girl #5), along with my friends. we weren't hurting anyone, and in fact, it was some of the best times of my life. some people would call us crazy. but we were just having fun.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on December 07, 2013, 01:07:41 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 12:22:31 pm
you say obsessive and unacceptable, I say "it's their life".

there's a TLC show called my strange obsession. one episode featured a furry girl who liked to go out in her fursuit. i'll admit that she probably shouldn't go into town like that, but if it's on her own time, who the fuck cares? if she wants to run around the woods with her fellow furry friends, who the hell are we to say she can't.

after all, there was a time when I ran around the woods pretending to be a wizard (well, mostly peasant girl #5), along with my friends. we weren't hurting anyone, and in fact, it was some of the best times of my life. some people would call us crazy. but we were just having fun.


Agreed, Kari.

I frankly don't care what people do with themselves as long as it's not harming others.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 01:10:10 pm
it's like I want to tell to my cousin if she gets in my face again.

"I could become a serial killer. And it'd be none of your business.
I could have 17 kids. And it'd be none of your business.
I could join a cult. And it'd still be none of your business."
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 07, 2013, 01:28:57 pm
Indeed. I mean, I like to wear skirts, dresses, and other feminine clothing in my spare time; it doesn't hurt anybody, so regardless of what opinions the many bible-thumping conservatives (Such as my mom and her entire side of the family) might have, it's none of their business.

Besides, skirts are comfy -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 01:40:14 pm
indeed. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 07, 2013, 01:45:09 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 12:22:31 pm
you say obsessive and unacceptable, I say "it's their life".

there's a TLC show called my strange obsession. one episode featured a furry girl who liked to go out in her fursuit. i'll admit that she probably shouldn't go into town like that, but if it's on her own time, who the fuck cares? if she wants to run around the woods with her fellow furry friends, who the hell are we to say she can't.

after all, there was a time when I ran around the woods pretending to be a wizard (well, mostly peasant girl #5), along with my friends. we weren't hurting anyone, and in fact, it was some of the best times of my life. some people would call us crazy. but we were just having fun.


I meant, it would be obsessive and weird to actually tell everyone you're a dog, run around in a fursuit, and hump peoples legs.

wearing costumes are fine. In fact, a lot of furries put a lot of time, effort, and money in them. I meant it gets obsessive when you no longer can tell reality from fiction. I assume you don't actually believe you were peasant girl #5/a wizard, correct? It was play. Acting. Having fun.

Also, I am pretty sure a lot of furries were less than pleased with that episode, if my memory serves correctly.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 07, 2013, 01:53:29 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on December 07, 2013, 01:28:57 pm
Indeed. I mean, I like to wear skirts, dresses, and other feminine clothing in my spare time; it doesn't hurt anybody, so regardless of what opinions the many bible-thumping conservatives (Such as my mom and her entire side of the family) might have, it's none of their business.

Besides, skirts are comfy -w-


Dejavu.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 07, 2013, 01:59:26 pm
It would surprise me if they weren't even slightly irritated by it. I remember when VH1 had the show Totally Obsessed (Which was basically the same thing as TLC's My Strange Obsession), they had this guy on there who was batfuck insane over Pac-Man; while his shrine with lots of vintage memorabilia was honestly neat, they had to show him dry-humping a Pac-Man arcade machine he saw in an arcade and mention that he, and I'm not making this up, worships Pac-Man as a god and made his own religion based around him (I remember stumbling onto his official website on that religion a few months ago).

So many of the people on a classic gaming site I frequented at the time were pissed off about this; given how some people will assume anyone who collects video games are like that guy.

Also, reason for the deja-vu? Do you also trap like me? :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 02:00:07 pm
@dustii: don't double-post.

as long as they're not humping YOUR leg, it's fine. we have no right to tell them to stop their lifestyle than I do telling you to smash your tablet and learn DOS or you telling me to break all my pencils and go into social work.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 07, 2013, 02:14:13 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 02:00:07 pm
@dustii: don't double-post.

as long as they're not humping YOUR leg, it's fine. we have no right to tell them to stop their lifestyle than I do telling you to smash your tablet and learn DOS or you telling me to break all my pencils and go into social work.


Sorry. On mobile. 2G. Had already posted and the system failed to alert me of a new post as it usually does.

You do propose a valid point, I suppose.

Quote from: PentiumMMX on December 07, 2013, 01:59:26 pm
Also, reason for the deja-vu? Do you also trap like me? :3


Sorta. I still live with my family, so under circumstances, I can't. ;-;

I do own makeup though (Covergirl Powdered Concealer, Covergirl Bush, Lo'Real Berry Red Lip Gloss), and my partner bought me some cute rainbow thigh highs. (which I will get when I move) When I move in with him I will actually be able to dress how I want, but till then, the best I can do is skinny jeans and light makeup.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 07, 2013, 02:18:05 pm
I know that feel. I usually do it when everybody is out of the house or behind closed doors while everyone is asleep
(Which, I have gone out in public in trap mode a few times; mostly lurking JC Penny >w>; )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 02:46:15 pm
rainbow thigh highs.....

lucky bitch. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 07, 2013, 04:28:36 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 02:46:15 pm
rainbow thigh highs.....

lucky bitch. >>;


if its any consolation, I don't have them. They're with my partner, who won't be here till later this month.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 07, 2013, 04:33:26 pm
*now has idea for a birthday gift for Kari-chan*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 08, 2013, 02:04:42 am
if you want to get me a birthday gift that isn't cash for AB, get me a plushie. or if you insist on getting me socks, go to sock dreams and buy me some non-polyester thigh highs. I cannot tell you how hard it is to find a sock that lives up to its name for me. knee socks only come up about halfway up my calf. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 08, 2013, 02:10:41 am
Please, bw checkers are FAR superior to rainbows in every way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 08, 2013, 02:36:39 am
are people just going to start buying me socks for my birthday, in various colours/patterns...?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 08, 2013, 03:42:27 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 08, 2013, 02:36:39 am
are people just going to start buying me socks for my birthday, in various colours/patterns...?


Is that a bad thing? Should we not?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 08, 2013, 04:16:54 pm
IDK, but I see it as a reason for me to say "Merry Sockmas!"

On that note, IDK if I've brought this up before, but how does everybody feel about the supposed "war on Christmas" that many conservative Christians frequently cry about? (As in, businesses saying "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas").

To be honest, while 95% of my family (both sides) get up in arms about "people trying to take the 'Christ' out of Christmas", in all honesty it makes more sense unless you know the person celebrates Christmas. I mean, not every last person celebrates the holiday; after all, some people celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanza, which occur around the same time, while others don't even celebrate any winter holidays at all, so why ignore them entirely as most corporations have in the past because Christmas is the more widely celebrated one? It just reeks of insensitivity toward religions beyond Christianity; especially considering Christmas itself began as a Pagan holiday that, as TV Tropes put it, was "hijacked by Jesus".
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 08, 2013, 04:47:52 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on December 08, 2013, 04:16:54 pm
IDK, but I see it as a reason for me to say "Merry Sockmas!"

On that note, IDK if I've brought this up before, but how does everybody feel about the supposed "war on Christmas" that many conservative Christians frequently cry about? (As in, businesses saying "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas").

To be honest, while 95% of my family (both sides) get up in arms about "people trying to take the 'Christ' out of Christmas", in all honesty it makes more sense unless you know the person celebrates Christmas. I mean, not every last person celebrates the holiday; after all, some people celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanza, which occur around the same time, while others don't even celebrate any winter holidays at all, so why ignore them entirely as most corporations have in the past because Christmas is the more widely celebrated one? It just reeks of insensitivity toward religions beyond Christianity; especially considering Christmas itself began as a Pagan holiday that, as TV Tropes put it, was "hijacked by Jesus".


Money. What other holiday in the year does a majority of the population feel compelled to buy their friends, family, and loved ones numerous gifts, which are usually expensive? It's a companies wet dream, in a sense. If they ignored it, they'd end up losing money, and if they took advantage of all holidays, Christmas would no longer be "special", and I wouldn't be surprised if some people flipped their shit over such a thing.

I honestly find the war on Christmas stupid. Like Pentium said, it was originally a pagan holiday, so flipping out because it's not being celebrated in a Christian way or companies using alternative terms is a bit moot of a point. In fact, if Jesus existed, he probably wasn't even born on Christmas. Christians just hijacked the holiday to celebrate his birth. For all we know, Jesus could of been born on the fourth of July. There is no sense making a fuss 
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 08, 2013, 05:26:41 pm
according to history Jesus was most likely born in September or even February. it's all right here.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 08, 2013, 06:17:21 pm
Fact: Here in the frozen north, we still call it "Yule", and rather than "Santa Claus" or Saint Nicholas we have the Yule Gnome. And: we DON'T drink Coke. In fact, sales figures for Coca Cola drops ENORMOUSLY over the winter, due to being replaced by the seasonal Yule must (which also returns for easter).

Christianity is a bit underpowered here ^^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 08, 2013, 06:24:29 pm
well, you DO live in Viking country, home of the norse traditions. -w-;

EDIT: food for thought.
http://groupthink.jezebel.com/so-what-hat-doesnt-make-a-guy-look-like-a-douche-1190931775
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on December 11, 2013, 11:44:36 am
Quote from: DustiiWolf on December 06, 2013, 12:04:08 pm
Some of the art is cool though, both SFW and NSFW.

Yes.
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 07, 2013, 12:22:31 pm
you say obsessive and unacceptable, I say "it's their life".

Exactly.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 17, 2013, 04:48:46 pm
You know, on another seasonal subject (Brought on by Nostalgia Critic's newest editorial (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/41704-why-lie-to-kids-about-santa)), how do you feel about lying to kids about the existence of Santa?

I know some of the more religious parents at the church mom goes to refused to let their kids believe in Santa to begin with; in more creative cases, saying that Jesus leaves them presents, or in more extreme cases, refusing to let them believe at all (Usually on belief that if the kids find out their parents were lying about Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the Birthday Skeleton (http://imgur.com/AnWqp), or what have you, the kids will decide their parents were lying about God and become radical atheists). Amazingly enough, my mom wasn't one of them; although the "you better be a nice child" bit was used as a tool to keep my sister and I in-line during the Christmas season.

As for me, I did genuinely still believe until my sister broke the news to me when I was about 9 or so. It was honestly a shocking revelation; I honestly didn't believe her at first, because she used to have a habit of lying to make herself seem all-knowing, and how blunt she was about it, but then I slowly put the pieces together and realized she was right. I'd mention how not getting a Gamecube until I bought one myself some 5 years after launch played some influence, but that feels unimportant to the subject at hand.

To be honest, in an era when the answers to many of life's questions are a Google search away, I think injecting some magic into a kid's life can be a good thing; it can spark creativity, even if the truth is very banal and can be hard to take at first when they're finally told about it (Although it's generally easier for them to take if they figure it out on their own). Even then, it doesn't make your memories invalid because it wasn't "real"; as NC pointed out, it can make you appreciate the illusion even more when you realize how much effort was put into making it seem real. Also, it's part of what resulted in me thinking more critically about things.

So, your thoughts?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on December 17, 2013, 05:45:20 pm
Honestly, I only thought Santa existed in movies when I was little.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on December 17, 2013, 05:57:59 pm
On one hand, it gives kids something to believe in. On the other hand, not all kids take finding out he's a lie well, and telling a lie year after year for years to your kids could have the adverse affect of them thinking lying is sometimes okay.

When i found out, i broke down. I was dramatic. I was this little kid who just found out that this magical thing which he looked forward to all year was a lie, and that his parents had hidden the truth from him for years. I was like "how could they do this to me!?" and "what kind of parent tells such a sweet lie to their kids only to inevitably reveal the bitter truth later on?!". I bawled. I cried. I yelled. safe to say i ruined santa for my nextdoor neighboor and a few school kids, being the legalistic child i was and feeling it was my duty to speak the truth.

My sister, however, figured it out herself, and lead my parents on that she "believed" for "their sake". When they sat her down, it was essentially "Let me guess: Santa's not real? Yah. I knew. Nice Conversation. Goodnight." She took it the complete opposite of me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 17, 2013, 07:18:16 pm
me and sis figured out the santa myth rather quickly since we tried to stay up late to see him, and sometimes caught our parents. plus we didn't have a fireplace. and our chimney was too small. our parents said santa had a key.

we sometimes still write "santa" on gifts here, mostly on presents to ourselves or to remind ourselves of the holidays. even though I knew santa was a fairy tale, I appreciated the extra effort my mother put in to try to give the holidays that little extra spark of magic. the rest of our lives sucked balls, but the holidays were that one time of year when everything was okay. I suppose that's the reason I still love Christmas.

@pent: parents who go the extra mile for their kids are the ones that really deserve to be parents. we can only hope that, unlike my father, there are parents out there who encourage all the wonder and magic that a child has in their eyes. i'm thankful that as an artist, i'll never lose that view of the world (or, the second I do, I be shot for having lost my creativity).

http://laughingsquid.com/creative-parents-bring-their-kids-dinosaur-toys-to-life-for-the-month-of-dinovember/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 17, 2013, 10:57:41 pm
I was actually thinking about Dinovember when I was finishing up my post -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 17, 2013, 11:08:18 pm
it's evident from what you wrote. it's also very true. ^^
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 11:11:53 am
DOUBLE POOOOOOOST

and speaking of women's underwear.






(sorry they're all so large)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 18, 2013, 11:45:00 am
Man, I positively love the last one. (It was awkward). Such grate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 12:55:19 pm
it's not even a revealing dress, to boot.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on December 18, 2013, 01:50:53 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 11:11:53 am
1-6.jpg

Not complaining or anything, but you could've put the images in a spoiler tag.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 02:09:30 pm
yeah.....

oh well.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on December 18, 2013, 03:11:54 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 02:09:30 pm
yeah.....

oh well.

lol
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 04:00:36 pm
i'm glad events like this exist, because NO ONE has the right to dictate what I put on my body. and no one has the right to assault me (verbally, mentally, physically, or sexually) because of it. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 18, 2013, 04:18:24 pm
Indeed. Just because I like a skirt doesn't mean someone has the right to attack me in any way for refusing to conform to their views of what's acceptable :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 04:22:13 pm
just because I wear a dress or a shortish skirt DOESN'T mean i'm looking to get hit on.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on December 18, 2013, 05:34:00 pm
There is only so much I can say
other than say that sexism, prejudice and the like are all wrong.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 18, 2013, 08:01:33 pm
*likes this post*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 30, 2013, 06:12:11 pm
Found a little something on /a/ today which I think sounds rather well-informed for once. And sums up why so many people today hate feminists.
QuoteFirst wave feminism (~1920): Women are people, not property. Women can vote or own property if they want.
Second wave (~1960): Women are equal members of society, not maids or cleaners or typists. Women can do whatever they want just like men.
Third wave (~now): Women are superior to men, men are rapists. Everything bad that happens to a woman is rape. Women deserve special treatment for being women.

Thoughts on this? I'm not gonna say I agree 100% with this either, but I'd agree on the fact that second-wave feminism (which is what I'd say most people think of when they hear the word) is no longer called feminism but "equality" or something diffuse in that vein, whilst "feminism" and its current advocates generally have the third-wave stance described here (with a pinch of salt, of course).

Well, /osc/, what say you?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 30, 2013, 06:50:27 pm
I heard a different meaning for 3rd wave feminism, which is most likely the actual meaning (I don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember it had something to do with breaking the gender binary); if someone could clarify for me, that'd be nice.

But, I'd say it boils down to the radfems ruining it by twisting it into some sort of "real womyn = master race; Earth must become penis-free zone" type of thing.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 30, 2013, 06:52:59 pm
The gender binary thing is a completely different debate, though. It has absolutely nothing to do with feminism aside from being another gender-focused debate, much like pears have nothing to do with oranges other than being another fruit.

EDIT: And delicious.
>Had pear juice for dinner
>Muh vitamins
Brb, to the orange cave.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on December 30, 2013, 11:00:33 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on December 30, 2013, 06:12:11 pm
Well, /osc/, what say you?


[walks up to podium and adjusts microphone]

I don't want to sound like i'm tooting my own horn, but I'm almost entirely certain I've spent more time researching feminism and gender issues than most of the folks on OSC (Pitkin is more knowledgable than me; Kari and Pent seem well versed on these matters too. It's funny you bring this up, since I actually did a research paper proposal for this exact subject (Third Wave Feminism) last semester for English class. But I digress.

Interestingly enough, our friends at 4chan managed to describe First and Second Wave feminism reasonably well. But they forgot to mention a fairly important bit about Second Wave feminism: Second Wave feminism was overwhelmingly concerned with the plight of white, middle-class, heterosexual, cisgender women. Lesbians were shunned by mainstream feminists (because of the prevailing "Ew, Gays" mentality of 1960s and 1970s America) and black women were pretty much entirely excluded, causing them to organize the Womanist movement as a rebuttal (unfortunately, I'm not very knowledgable about Womanism so I can't say more about it). Representation for transgender women, disabled women, poor women, non-western women and other underprivileged groups? Forgetaboudit.

Other (not) fun things about Second Wave Feminism: early radical feminist Second Wavers originated a lot of the nasty stereotypes about feminists, the ones we're still hearing about today. Among these, the idea that men and women are fundamentally emotionally and psychologically different (though not necessarily unequal), female supremacy, all sorts of metaphysical woo about women Womyn being more attuned to nature/the earth/etc., sex shaming in its sundry forms (including anti-pornography and anti-sex worker sentiments), regulation of women's bodies / appearance for the feminism cause (SHAVING IS ANTIFEMINIST! SKIRTS ARE OPPRESSION!) and the like. Remember the term Radical Feminism, because I'll return to it in a moment here.

Now, Third Wave Feminism arose in the 1980s / 90s as a response to the inequities present in Second Wave Feminism.  Third Wavers are generally sex-positive, pro-sex workers' rights, pro-pornography (although this point varies among individuals - many Third Wavers are against mainstream porn, and any type that dehumanizes or degrades women or queer people), advocates of gay and bisexual rights, and generally try to be inclusive of women of all races, cultures, religions and classes. As well, Third Wave Feminists accept transgender women as their sisters-in-arms, so to speak, and advocate the rights of transgender and genderqueer people of all DSABs (designated sex at birth) and gender presentations. It's certainly not a perfect movement, but Third Wave Feminism is undoubtedly the most accepting and inclusive "wave" of feminism, and probably the largest branch of feminism around today. As for its aims: If Second Wave feminism existed to secure (white, hetero) women legal and social equality with (white, hetero) men, Third Wave feminism can be said to have the ultimate intent of securing social equality for women of all races, sexual orientations and backgrounds.

FUN FACT: Third Wave Feminism is sometimes referred to as "choice feminism" because it puts a premium on the individual and their rights. A third waver would be A-OK with a woman who chooses to wear makeup, dresses, high heels, etc., whereas a radical feminist would accuse this woman of conspiring with The Patriarchy because they believe those things are inherently oppressive and anti-woman.

QuoteThird wave (~now): Women are superior to men, men are rapists. Everything bad that happens to a woman is rape. Women deserve special treatment for being women.


This, on the other hand, describes Radical Feminism.

I won't go in-depth on the details of Radfems, but suffice to say I wouldn't mind seeing the lot of them loaded onto a rocket and shot into space. Radfems have a few good ideas - they have fairly solid criticisms of institutionalized heterosexuality, institutionalized misogyny, sex-positivity, among a few other things - but frankly, those few pearls of wisdom are buried under heaps of smoldering refuse. A few Radfem concepts (condensed for your convenience):


I could go on and on. Radical feminists sound god damn hilarious until you realize that many have social and academic clout and can put their dangerous ideas into action (http://boryaaa.tumblr.com/post/71431751168/blacksquares-misandry-cats-communism-terfs), with transgender women often being targets of their violence and intimidation. Radfems are, in my experience, some of the biggest peddlers of girl-hate and misogyny around, since they generally love to shit on trans women, genderqueer women, bisexual and heterosexual women, femme women, and generally any woman who isn't in lock-step with their ideas about "feminism".

Quote from: NejinOniwa on December 30, 2013, 06:52:59 pm
The gender binary thing is a completely different debate, though. It has absolutely nothing to do with feminism aside from being another gender-focused debate, much like pears have nothing to do with oranges other than being another fruit.


Actually, while gender wasn't really a part of First or Second Wave feminism, it's a major deal in Third Wave feminism.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on December 30, 2013, 11:09:54 pm
@nej: bring me back some clementines on the way! :0
@bells: you are such a boob punch for sniping me.

[spoiler=what was going to be my post but i don't see the point now]it's depressing that the term "feminist" has been co-opted by radicals like this. i consider myself a feminist, because the term "feminist" to me evokes images of the 1960's-70's feminist, where basically we want the right to wear pants and do more than cook your damn dinner. that ANYONE would consider themselves superiour to ANYONE is a ludicrious statement that can't be backed up with actual fact. you think men are stronger than women? i will parade 10 female bodybuilders who can benchpress more than you, 20 female firefighters/soldiers who are braver than you, and 100 mothers who gave birth to multiple LARGE children who are a hell of a lot tougher than you.

i'm a bit too lazy to adapt myself to a new term just because some dumbfucks screwed it up for all of us. it'd be like having to invent a new term for cosplay simply because that guy in colorado shot up a movie theatre and the show Heroes of Cosplay presented the entire subculture as elitist pricks who lack souls. it's not gonna happen. we just sigh, roll our eyes, and move on, doing our best to show what we're REALLY about.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 30, 2013, 11:15:04 pm
That's actually fairly interesting and informing, B. Thing is, I've never thought of the rest of the gender debate as part of "feminism", because - as you say - the rads have mucked that word up so much that it's now carrying more negative than positive connotations. Even after being informed, I still think I'm going to keep calling what you call "third-wave feminists" something else, to distinguish them from the plague that is radfems. "Sensible people" sounds about right. "Common sensors" also works. I'll probably keep doing this until the possible shift from calling radfems "radical FEMINISTS" to calling them "fanatical idiots" happens. To me right now "feminist" is a pretty ambiguous word with an unclear meaning and a lot of negative connotations; to most others afaik, it's a lot worse.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on December 31, 2013, 03:46:26 pm
Sorry about that Kari! 

And yes Nej, mainstream feminism is fairly rational / logical stuff. These days, a lot of younger people are being exposed to feminist ideas via tumblr, which isn't ALWAYS a bad thing ... but it isn't always good either, since Tumblr feminism / social justice in general tends to be a bit skewed and short-sighted. (I've posted my gripes with Tumblr SJ before, but it can be best summarized as "Dangerously black-and-white view of morality"). Using Tumblr as a source of all knowledge about feminism is kind of like using Wikipedia to write a research paper: Often it delivers reputable information and it's certainly a great starting point, but it can be prone to biases and misinformation; you really, really, really have to consult reputable sources and not take everything written there as the undisputed truth.

As for feminism vs. gender egalitarianism / equality, etc., I tend to view the two terms interchangeably, since gender equality IS the end goal of feminism (excluding radfems and explicitly female-supremacist factions, who are a small minority anyhow). I called myself a gender egalitarian for a long time, but changed my label to feminist for a few reasons - for starters, I realized it was cowardly to stay away from a movement just because there are radicals, and stupid to form my opinions of a group based on the idiots and hate-mongers residing at their fringes. I mean, there are assholes in every group - literally, every group, from fandoms and clubs to political organizations and religions - if I stayed away from groups just because assholes are in them, I wouldn't be an anime fan, I wouldn't be an MLP fan, I wouldn't be a liberal, I wouldn't be an agnostic or anything else for that matter. Why would I feel differently about feminism?

As for semantics, I prefer "feminism" to "gender egalitarianism" because it reminds people that women are still not equal with men in many respects. Looking at things from a legal standpoint, in the US there's still a raging debate about whether women should be able to access abortion, and hundreds of anti-abortion restrictions have been enacted in the last couple years (I don't want to debate this point, I'm just giving an example), female contraception is still a taboo subject (and disproportionately regulated / restricted: In China, Mexico, for instance, a woman can buy inexpensive birth control OTC, while it's quite expensive in the States and invasive and unnecessary examinations are required here [as well as Canada, Australia and most of Europe].) Socially-speaking, girls are discouraged from studying math and science (again, this is uniquely Western; in various Asian nations, there's no such correlation between gender and academic performance in math or scientific subjects) resulting in disproportionately few women in STEM careers. These issues vary nation to nation and culture to culture - in many parts of the world, women are denied basic human rights still. It would be hard to argue that feminism isn't needed in those places.

As for gender and Third Wave Feminism: another major theme among Third Wavers is the deconstruction of various gender rolls, and their dismantling in some cases. This isn't to say that Third Wavers want to get rid of masculinity and femininity (again, Radical Feminists are the ones who want to do away with masculinity and femininity, because they believe the former is inherently violent and oppressive, while the latter is weak and oppressed), but Third Wavers want masculinity and femininity to be decoupled from sex and gender. Basically, in a Third Wave "utopia", a person's style of dress, interests, activities, sexual orientation, etc. would have no bearing on their gender, and nobody would be harassed for partaking in activities traditionally associated with genders besides their own.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on December 31, 2013, 09:03:16 pm
Quote from: Bella on December 31, 2013, 03:46:26 pm
I mean, there are assholes in every group - literally, every group, from fandoms and clubs to political organizations and religions - if I stayed away from groups just because assholes are in them, I wouldn't be an anime fan, I wouldn't be an MLP fan, I wouldn't be a liberal, I wouldn't be an agnostic or anything else for that matter. Why would I feel differently about feminism?


Indeed. There are many things I wouldn't be if I let the assholes get to me :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on December 31, 2013, 09:11:08 pm
Still favor 'Equalist' over Feminist since I think it's a more appropriate term. I see where you're coming from with this stuff though - keep it up, everyone! More debaters is (almost) always good. :)

Not to sound cocky, but I think I have a pretty different view on feminism general and how much of it is necessary only due to the fact that I am - objectively speaking, and from my own experiences as well - from a country/culture with a more equal society in general. I'm not saying we're perfect in any way, and there's still plenty of work to be done here as well; still, from what I've seen there's a pretty wide gap between the North in general and people down on the continent, as far as gender equality (and acceptance of hbtq general as well to some part) goes. To distinguish further I'd say that Germanics in general also falls into the same patters as we do to some degree, whilst the latin cultures of south Europe are lagging a bit behind. Academically, women are absolutely dominating every single university and program here, and math-heavy ones like physics are no exception. Law might be, but don't take my word for it. I think there's an "Gender Equality Top List by Country" or something out there somewhere, with some interesting data.
EDIT: Found it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index)

The question with the US is a bit different; the problem is the rather wide culture gap. For example, the highly non-secular environment adds in as a major factor as far as I can tell; this leads to a higher ratio of conservative families than would otherwise be the case, which subsequently leads to more conservative parents raising children with conservative values - girls included - prolonging the cycle. I'm not an expert on US sociology in any way, so I'm not gonna dive any deeper than that, but that's my 2 cents on the subject.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 02, 2014, 03:09:57 pm
Re: Women in academics: Even in the 'conservative' United States, women are the majority of college attendees and graduates, at 56% (according to the latest statistics). I've heard a number of theories as to why this is (ranging from zany ideas about girls/women having better powers of concentration to there being a Vast Femnazi Conspiracy™ against boys in school), but I think the mostly likely is hard, cold economic fact: marriage has transformed from a requirement to an option, and about 50% of women who DO get married will end up divorced. Coupled with an economy that's downright hostile to single-income families and anyone without a college degree, women really can't rely on men to support them like they could Back In The Day. Parents and educators know this, hence the pressure for girls to do well academically and pursue college degrees at a rate slightly higher than that of boys.

Of course, women are also expected to want to get married (to men) and have babies AND also have a career. Conservative talking-heads love to complain about how liberals are destroying the traditional structure of society by expecting women to have careers instead of babies, but this isn't what's happening - we haven't stopped expecting (and pressuring) women to have husbands and families, we've just decided they should have those things AND careers. "Having it all", as it's often billed in the media. (It's an absurd concept, imo - there's nothing wrong with having a career and children, obviously, but a career alone is a major undertaking, and children are also a major undertaking, and not everyone is going to have the fortitude or social/economic means to pursue just one, let alone both.)

That said, there's something like a 1-to-5 female-male ratio in STEM education and careers in the US. In Japan, women only make up 14% of those participating in STEM fields, while in China they make up a reported 37%. Then there's India - women are still a minority when it comes to college participation, but something like 60% of the women enrolled in college are pursuing STEM careers.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 02, 2014, 04:36:08 pm
I'm assuming STEM stands for Science-Technology-Engineering-Mathematics, because I've never heard the term before but that's what context tells me.

RE: the whole issue with careers, women and family building, I am going to go out on a bit of a tangent here, but hear me out.

In my honest, possibly quite politically incorrect, opinion, we have a problem here. A BIG problem. While obviously it's a huge leap forward when women - and men - have the opportunity to pursue whatever choice in life they want, there's a big risk involved in making this sort of play. Namely: Hitting the cultural idiocracy barrier.

Now I'm not saying "ooh all academics are going to stop reproducing and we're going to have idiots only left". Not by any means. However, the problem is similar, and similarly dangerous: young people in liberal environments are to an exceeding degree - much due to pressure from media and the "entertainment" propaganda industry - being brought up with the notion that the ultimate goals of life are twofold: making shitloads of dough and finding your one true love. These sort of notions play on our lust and greed for power and pleasure, which make them easy to accept because just about everyone can relate to those sort of wishes. However, this makes us sort of miss out on something pretty damn important: ensuring the safety and growth of our culture by making sure there are people being born and brought up in it. Or plain and simple, making sure that your own people doesn't just die out for lack of people.

The issue here is that - as described in Idiocracy - successful and more well-educated people in general, but women in particular, have the tendency to reproduce less and less, whilst less well-educated people/women have strong tendencies to reproduce more as long as they have the means to provide for their offspring; because the secondary fallback of our conservative western culture is "have women stay at home and raise children and tend to the house" that's what they usually end up doing if they don't have sufficient education or ability to get some line of work of their own to keep them busy. Another part of the issue is also the fact that an astronomical majority of all nations in the world have a very skewed view on the responsibilities of the mother vs the father in a relationship; swedish law is only just now starting to reach a somewhat equal level in this respect, with the father receiving actual mandatory time to take off work for child-rearing, but despite the fact that my country is in many ways a forerunner in gender equality there's been public outcry from conservative parties every time something like this has been brought up.
The skewed responsibilities of the mother vs the father in raising the child is an ingrained part of not only western, but human culture, and in modern society this is dumb as all fuck. In the first place, it shouldn't be WOMEN who are expected to have children; MEN should be just as fucking expected to reproduce and fucking take responsibility for their offspring.

Being a woman doesn't make you any less of a man, and being a father is damn well no excuse for being any less of a mother.


The results of this sort of cultural imbalance are twofold. Firstly, the mentioned "fallback" for women without careers (and by extension often without significant education) to have, raise and tend to children, resulting in a higher reproduction rate for undereducated women, and thus for couples in general because let's face it, academics quite often want their match to be academic as well. SECONDLY and more importantly, it means that the cultural minorities that exist in a society - which in the case of immigrants and refugees are often even more inclined toward skewed views on gender equality, imbalanced education between genders and thus have a higher risk to fall into the low-education behavior of "women stay home have children keep house" etc - have a proportionally higher rate of growth than the cultural majority, which leads to enclave formation and cultural transplantation of a less liberal and gender-equal culture, rather than assimilation into the majority.

This is the extent of my racism. I'm not going to claim I'm not racist - that's bullshit whoever says it, because you always have a bias toward people from cultures other than your own. I don't see these people as the problem themselves by any means - immigration is a great thing to supplant the natural growth of a society and its population, provided that it grows enough on its own to outpace the immigration and the immigrants. Which, in many cases - especially Sweden's with its proportionally low reproduction rates and very high immigration - is not the case. So the problem isn't that the immigrants are coming, the problem is that we're not keeping up with them. People often whine about how they "TAKE OUR JOBS!" and so on, but the fact is that that's not the main problem - the main problem is that they're pushing us back, growing faster than we are and supplanting our culture with their own. And thus, slowing down assimilation, causing cultural dissonance and causing a regression into conservative values, preventing the progress of society and the evolution of equality.

This probably sounds pretty bigoted and elitistic to you guys, but in my opinion it's a lot harder to be accepted as a Swede than to be accepted as an American. Because of the simple facts that the US is a heavily decentralized, rather young nation and a country of immigrants to start with, and that you have a very widely circulated culture that most people worldwide have a fairly good grasp on, it's easier for the US to assimilate migrant cultures; while this may lead to first generation immigrants having an easier time to hold on to their old culture and prolonging the existence of cultural enclaves, they seldom fail to assimilate partly into their new culture in the first place; in the long term (for the second and even moreso third generation) most minority immigrants are completely assimilated in due time. In addition, the core values of being "American" is a rather narrow and unclear scope (which depends a lot on where in the US you come from in the first place) that doesn't take up too many slots of your personality, so to speak; you can't just tell someone "I'm American" and expect them to get what sort of person you are from just that, without going deeper into things about precisely what kind of person YOU are - "Conservative", "Liberal", "Democrat", "Irish descendant", etc.
On the other hand, being Swedish is to know a strange language that's reportedly batshit insanely hard to learn, know cultural nuances that you're expected to know without being taught by anyone or anything (because telling someone outright about stuff like that is just rude, and we don't do things that way), being more or less aware of a good part of a millennium of national history, very underrepresented in the global media (because we don't make a whole lot of noise most of the time), and abiding to a whole slew of core values that take up twice and half again as much of your personality as its American counterpart. And in comparison, that's pretty fucking hard to learn, and even harder a mold to fit into once you know where to go. We have a harder time assimilating people into our culture, because our culture is harder to be assimilated into. Simple as that. For that reason, many first-generation immigrants don't assimilate at all, which leads to slower assimilation in general. If I am to use a bit of a metaphor:

To become American is, in my opinion, a bit like taking a bath in the ocean in summer. You don't have to dunk your head or get your hair wet if you don't want to, and if it's a bit cold that day you might not stay in for too long; but while a few people do opt to stay sunbathing the whole time, the majority of people on the beach will get into the water at some point during the day; and if the water's not warm enough today, you can probably come back tomorrow and try again, no biggie. Nobody on the beach is going to judge - there's so many people there that nobody is going to spend any special attention to just you. (Usually.)
In comparison, to become Swedish is like taking an ice bath. You can stay in the sauna and just cool off in the air outdoors if you want to, but if you really want the whole experience you're gonna have to dunk yourself in 0 degree water and freeze your balls off (that's exactly how it feels, seriously) before going back in, and people are going to quietly scorn you and belittle you if you don't do it. Once you've done it, though, it's done, finished, final. There's no half-assing it or just dipping your toes; you go all the way on the first try, or you don't. If you try half-assing it, you just get frostburn on your feet. When you're done, though, the other guys in the sauna will be happy to accept you as one of their own, and share a beer or two with you.

This became a long tangent, but I hope you get my point.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 05, 2014, 11:23:18 pm
Logically-speaking, I comprehend where you're coming from. Although I can't say I actually understand, for a few reasons - for starters, my family is so "mixed up" that I've never had a super strong sense of cultural heritage (although I am very proud of my Russian & Sicilian ancestry). Coupled with the fact that I've lived in the US all my life, and as you noted the US is extremely culturally- and ethnically-diverse and has been for centuries, AND I have absolutely no desire to "continue my bloodline", I can really only see where you're coming from in abstract terms.

tbh, I'm pretty much for liberal immigration laws in the US, Canada, Australia and other nations founded on immigration, because that's an important part of our/their heritage. Following that logic, immigration laws should be more stringent in smaller, more insular countries - because that's a part of your heritage. I think it would be wrong to completely shut off immigration, but there should be high standards, and at least attempts made to integrate emigrants into the local culture. That isn't so much a problem in the US because we have hundreds (if not thousands) of local cultures, spanning all sorts of ethnic, racial, religious and political lines. As you pointed our with your ocean vs. ice bath analogy, one only has to integrate into one of those regional cultures to "become American", while the same cannot be said for more culturally-homogenous countries.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 08, 2014, 09:05:14 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95218&page=1


this offends me in more ways than i can even describe
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on January 08, 2014, 09:36:00 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 08, 2014, 09:05:14 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95218&page=1


this offends me in more ways than i can even describe


Please tell me this isn't real. Please.. i would hate to lose faith in humanity, as well as the belief that there is still common sense in the world....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 08, 2014, 10:13:02 pm
QuoteAn Oklahoma high school suspended a 15-year-old student after accusing her of casting a magic spell that caused a teacher to become sick, lawyers for the student said on Friday.


Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 08, 2014, 10:18:43 pm
Just...wow >_<;
I really can't think of how to describe it, but then again, we're talking about the south here :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 08, 2014, 10:33:43 pm
Quick, cast more spells! If we can make rampant accusations of witchcraft pop up in the south it's going to ensure the success of great keikaku!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 09, 2014, 12:36:53 am
I thought Oklahoma was okay with Witchcraft?  Or is that only shamanism?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 09, 2014, 01:57:47 am
I thought Oklahoma was the Midwest? Not the South?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 09, 2014, 02:04:14 am
IDK; US geography confuses the fuck out of me in that regard :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on January 09, 2014, 02:26:46 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 08, 2014, 09:05:14 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95218&page=1


this offends me in more ways than i can even describe

This is more funny than offensive.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on January 09, 2014, 02:57:17 pm
Oklahoma is the west, the midwest doesn't go that far over.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 09, 2014, 06:03:50 pm
i always considered Nebraska to be part of the "midwest" and that's further over than oklahoma. i always assumed oklahoma was part of the south.


either way, we're OT.

1. you seriously thought a 15-year-old "cast a spell" and hurt her teacher
2. what the fuck is wrong with wearing pagan symbols to school, paganism is an established religion older than yours fucktard
3. if you had DONE ANY RESEARCH you'd know that pagans are typically a more peaceful folk than christians, mostly due to us not trying to force our ideas on others
4. you're stealing a teenager's notebooks filled with stories....you proud of that? you proud of what you did there?
5. it is rather obvious to me that this girl has been targeted for repeated discrimination much in the way i was during high school
6. what the fuck
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 09, 2014, 10:24:17 pm
7: we obviously need to sacrifice a bitch to the gods here
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 10, 2014, 03:56:19 am
agreed.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on January 10, 2014, 11:31:36 am
Is this real?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 10, 2014, 12:04:52 pm
Quote from: LeaflameSD on January 10, 2014, 11:31:36 am
Is this real?


Is this just fantasy? </bohemian_rhapsody>

To be more serious, yeah; with something as stupid as that article, I wish that it was published on The Onion or some other spoof news site. The fact it's on ABC News makes it that much more sad.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 10, 2014, 01:01:46 pm
it's the south, of course it's real. >>;

@pent: agreed. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on January 10, 2014, 02:37:16 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on January 10, 2014, 12:04:52 pm
Is this just fantasy? </bohemian_rhapsody>

To be more serious, yeah; with something as stupid as that article, I wish that it was published on The Onion or some other spoof news site. The fact it's on ABC News makes it that much more sad.

I can't say much about this... I'm lost for words, kek.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 10, 2014, 08:14:03 pm
it's one of the fundamental issues i have with this country. we advertise ourselves as being tolerant as fuck, and then we get shit like this. and there isn't even any recent bias against it the way one could have against muslims, it's just idiots being idiots. and normally this wouldn't matter, but those idiots were granted positions of power by OTHER idiots. a vicious cycle of idiocy and intolerance.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 13, 2014, 10:45:47 am
So from other, less serious things, to...considerably more so.
http://www.franklincase.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvl6kO1Vo8
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/original_research_the_mountain_of_evidence_for_a/

Coverups, conspiracies, child abuse, high in the upper echelons of society and evidently with the backing of federal agents.
What do you people think about this sort of stuff when you see it - who do you believe?

For example, when looking at the Wikipedia entry for the Franklin case, only a small article about "allegations" exists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations
Additionally, some of the alleged victims were prosecuted for their testimonies, and some were sentenced to prison for perjury.

Discuss, /osc/.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 15, 2014, 01:00:02 am
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2014/01/flyers_for_freedom_2_twerk_dan.html

i'll just leave this here....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on January 15, 2014, 02:23:18 am
I don't really know how you just copy the face of one of America's most influential leaders, and just paste it onto so ghetto bastard, then put it on a poster with "FREE 2 TWERK" on it. I mean, that's pretty disrespectful, as well as ignorant.

I'm not much of a twerking fan, either.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 15, 2014, 10:18:06 am
the only time I liked twerking was in that one TF2 video, and that was mostly because the Medic was twerking on a Sentry.


this, though, this is just gross.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 15, 2014, 11:55:18 am
Indeed. To be honest, twerking is one of the stupidest things invented in recent years, and mixing that with a disrespectful portrayal of Martin Luther King, I'm glad the event was cancelled.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 15, 2014, 12:20:05 pm
so we concur on this topic: twerking is bad, twerking in the name of MLK is worthy of being boiled in oil.


next pressing issues?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on January 15, 2014, 06:47:38 pm
The US government is such a fucking joke vis-a-vis technology.

WE WANT FREE ENTERPRISSSSSSSSE! CAPITALISM! FREE MARKET!!!!!!! Haha, but not on the INTERNET, you silly fucks (http://business.time.com/2014/01/15/net-neutrality-ruling-paves-the-way-for-internet-fast-lanes/). (Of course, this isn't exactly shocking, considering the ISP's / Hollywood's history of just bendin' government riiiiight over and fucking it up the ass [in a manner of speaking].)

WOW EVERYBODY EVIL BROWN NONCHRISTIAN PPL ARE GOING TO KILL US ALL, WE MUST BUILD A VAST MULTIBILLION DOLLAR INTERNATIONAL SURVEILLANCE EMPIRE TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE. [Proceeds to menace the REST OF THE GODDAMN WORLD WITH A VARIETY OF INCREASINGLY BIZARRE SPYING MECHANISMS] (http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/30/nsa-can-hack-wifi-devices-from-eight-miles-away/)

The delicious irony is that half of the politicians backing these measures would probably boohoo about the Chinese government's toltalitarianistic internet & surveillance policies, but they're probably watching with gnawing envy and wishing they could do the same damn thing here.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 15, 2014, 07:24:47 pm
Chinese war when?

Pls
Blood for the blood god and such
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 15, 2014, 10:34:52 pm
Pardon the pic, but this basically sums up my feeling on most politicians:
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 23, 2014, 12:45:15 am
so for those unaware, earlier today I saw D.W. Griffith's "The Birth of a Nation".

feel free to dialogue.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on January 23, 2014, 03:43:18 pm
[spoiler=Quote]
Quote from: PentiumMMX on January 15, 2014, 10:34:52 pm
Pardon the pic, but this basically sums up my feeling on most politicians:

[/spoiler]

Omg so true.

+1
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2014, 01:15:16 am
guys, for once I actually have something POSITIVE to post here.

http://wildhunt.org/2014/01/wicca-in-the-cultural-spotlight.html

thoughts, feelings? and I know we've asked this before (but I forgot), but, what religion do you practice (if you don't mind me asking)?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on January 28, 2014, 02:01:01 am
Personally, I'm agnostic.

Like, I don't practice any religion, but I don't outright doubt God's existence.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 28, 2014, 03:08:40 am
That's actually quite cool :3

As for my religion, I suppose one could label me as agnostic, although sometimes I jokingly say my religion is Haruhism. I was raised in a Southern Baptist family, and while I have no problem with Christianity, I find it hard to associate myself with it; mostly because it's been ruined for me by bigots such as my mom and her side of the family :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 28, 2014, 03:18:53 am
I practice zealously a religion and hold a firm belief in the existence of myself.

After all, if one is his own deity, no wish is too great to be sought power to grant, and fulfill.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on January 28, 2014, 07:46:27 am
I don't mind.

I'm Christian and not a bigot, I love everyone!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2014, 10:06:12 am
@genpop: cool, cool. ^^
@nej: did not realize you were Satanist, also cool. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on January 28, 2014, 01:05:43 pm
That's quite incorrect, my minion.

All will be apparent in due time, however.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on January 28, 2014, 03:35:30 pm
http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/01/27/good-luck-charlie-same-sex-couple-disney-channel-lesbians-video/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2014, 05:50:02 pm
saw a clip of that today on the news, fuck yeah Disney channel for once in like, 10 fucking years. usually their shows suck but this is awesome.


@nej: I've heard the core of Satanism described (by Satanists) to be the worship of oneself, ie: YOU are god. the church, not one for putting the individual above the Almighty Glow Cloud, demonized any sort of self-worship as "Satanism" in an attempt to ruin it. they kinda just rolled with it, however, and the name stays.

anyone who says they "worship the devil" is a faker and deserves to have their little pussy poser ass kicked.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 28, 2014, 05:58:38 pm
@DisneyChannel: Indeed. This is one of the coolest things they've done since the first 2 seasons of So Weird (Before that, when they aired reruns of the old '50s Zorro series)

@Satanism: My mom is likely one of the ones that believe they worship the devil. Granted, she thinks the same of every religion that isn't Judio-Christian :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2014, 06:42:49 pm
she thinks Buddhists sacrifice goats.

granted, I have no proof that she feels this way, but it sounds rather accurate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on January 28, 2014, 06:48:44 pm
IDK if she does, but that does seem like something she'd claim :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on January 28, 2014, 08:06:36 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on January 28, 2014, 03:08:40 am
As for my religion, I suppose one could label me as agnostic, although sometimes I jokingly say my religion is Haruhism. I was raised in a Southern Baptist family, and while I have no problem with Christianity, I find it hard to associate myself with it; mostly because it's been ruined for me by bigots such as my mom and her side of the family :\


Haruhi* is thy god and Madoka is our lord and savior. Praise be thy names. Amen.

Joking aside, i consider myself agnostic. I like the idea of creation and "God", but i don't accept it as fact and am open to different ideas. I do, however, have some theories on "God" and creation and all that, such as God, i think, if he exist(s/ed), would be an other-dimensional being, existing in an outer dimension from our own (such as the 4th), explaining a lot about his abilities.

* Suzumiya
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on January 29, 2014, 03:41:15 pm
Our Haruhi
Who art in North High
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy Espers Come,
Thy will be fun,
In this Reality, as it is in that Other One.
Give us this day, our daily Alien Hunt,
And forgive us our normals,
as we forgive those normals around us.
Lead us not into damnation,
but deliver us a new world.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on January 29, 2014, 04:11:17 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 29, 2014, 03:41:15 pm
Our Haruhi
Who art in North High
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy Espers Come,
Thy will be fun,
In this Reality, as it is in that Other One.
Give us this day, our daily Alien Hunt,
And forgive us our normals,
as we forgive those normals around us.
Lead us not into damnation,
but deliver us a new world.


Amen.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on February 01, 2014, 12:27:32 am
http://mynintendonews.com/2014/01/31/tomodachi-collection-new-life-is-coming-to-the-west/ (http://mynintendonews.com/2014/01/31/tomodachi-collection-new-life-is-coming-to-the-west/)

*pissed* (ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ /(ıbınןuodoɹǝɥ /)

Here i am happy about the news and this idiot shows up in the comments.

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 01, 2014, 12:50:49 am
I tend to ignore comments sections of most things 99.9% of the time, as usually it's full of idiots.

It's like the time my sister posted something on her FB about not forcing your beliefs on others and to respect those who are different from you;  mom's side of the family had their blood brought to a boil by the line "being an atheist is ok", as they had to go into a super-long spill on how being anything other than a Christian is "wrong and immoral" >_>;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 01, 2014, 01:09:42 am
I'd like to speak to them once in the guise of a christ-hating heathen just to see what happens.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 01, 2014, 12:00:17 pm
this is one of the many reasons that I would never come to visit you. because they'd kill me for the little star hanging around my neck.


also, super-late to the party, but I posted a comment on the article.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 01, 2014, 12:51:40 pm
True. I wish someone would come visit me, though, even though most likely it'd end badly ;___;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 01, 2014, 02:28:13 pm
I'm sorry. I'd just be afraid I'd die.

think of it this way: you, possibly dustii, my friend arty, my brother eventually, EVERYBODY wants to move to New Hampshire! COME ONE, COME ALL TO PARADISE~!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 01, 2014, 10:24:58 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on January 28, 2014, 01:15:16 am
guys, for once I actually have something POSITIVE to post here.

http://wildhunt.org/2014/01/wicca-in-the-cultural-spotlight.html

thoughts, feelings? and I know we've asked this before (but I forgot), but, what religion do you practice (if you don't mind me asking)?


I'm pro-religious-diversity, so articles like that are heartening to read. As for my thoughts on the matter, as long as you accept people with different belief systems, I'll accept you. -w-;

As for my belief system I'm still aggressively agnostic and too lazy to actually practice a religion, lol.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 01, 2014, 10:50:38 pm
good to hear, but then, I expected no less from you, bells. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 06, 2014, 03:49:57 pm
So, guys. When does world war 3 start, and who fires the first shot?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on February 06, 2014, 03:56:04 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on February 06, 2014, 03:49:57 pm
So, guys. When does world war 3 start, and who fires the first shot?


• In a galaxy far away, years from now.
• Han
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 06, 2014, 04:52:28 pm
pacifist pls go
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on February 06, 2014, 05:16:52 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on February 06, 2014, 04:52:28 pm
pacifist pls go


sorry I couldn't resist when you ask who fires the first shot.

seriously though I hope we avoid WWIII... I'd likely not survive such a thing if it hit stateside....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 07, 2014, 09:45:29 am
@Satanism:

How accurate?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 07, 2014, 07:10:23 pm
Those are the general precepts of LeVayan Satanism, what of them?  It's the leading school of atheistic Satanism, or at least it was, but it's only one branch of the greater concept.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 07, 2014, 08:01:26 pm
my brother was a satanist at one point and that was basically what it entailed. anyone who claims to "worship satan" or whatever is a poser and deserves the ass-kicking they get.

@nej: i am well aware that the US is going to instigate WWIII and i have accepted this fact. as for when, i have no idea and prefer not to speculate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on February 07, 2014, 08:43:44 pm
There are, in general, two main branches of Satanic thought; theistic and atheistic.  Modern Satanism as is best known can be traced back to the 1966 founding of the Church of Satan by Anton LeVay; there's not really any of what is traditionally thought of as Satanic worship involved.  Instead they're more about doing what you want and not believing in 'suppression' of 'human nature'.  Theistic Satanism is concerned with the Biblical Satan and the veneration/worship/etc. there of.

If you're burning to know my personal opinion the 'Satanic' tag is nothing but shock value on LeVay's part, since they disavow all belief in gods or devils.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 08, 2014, 02:21:48 am
tbh i mostly saw it as that too (shock value), and i get uber-suspicious of anyone claiming to worship satan these days. being a pagan makes me sensitive to others claiming to worship these religions, as most people who claim to be "wiccan" or "pagan" or "satanist" are usually teenage posers trying to look cool.

i have the satanic bible on my shelf. have yet to read it, but i like that i have it. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on February 08, 2014, 11:10:32 am
[spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FvCG29P85U[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 12, 2014, 03:57:53 pm
http://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/

cue ragevomit in 3...2....1....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 12, 2014, 05:17:37 pm
Both of those letters remind me of a former roommate of my bro-in-law; whom was a gigantic prick.

To be honest, I never liked him in the least, and it took a while for everyone else to see what I didn't like. He saw me as a "complete loser", whom needed his divine guidance to become "a real man" like him; whom is a complete creeper obsessed with sex, alcohol, and violence (Especially if he's the one starting the fight). He kept pushing himself onto me because I needed to become "a real man", yet nobody sided with me on it for the longest time; telling me to ignore it because "that's how he is", even though it made me very uncomfortable.

Eventually, people slowly began to take my side on it, as he slowly became less welcome in the group (Even more so with how he kept stealing stuff from bro-in-law, and dismissed any complaints my sister had about him as her being "a spoiled brat"; even when he took her laptop without permission and left it in the backseat of his car in plain sight with doors unlocked, among many other things). Finally, bro-in-law put his foot down, kicked the guy out of the house, and told him to never come around again; which allowed me to finally feel comfortable coming over to visit again.

At least in the case of this group, they finally let go of that guy, although it took some time for them to finally realize how terrible of a person he was :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 12, 2014, 06:34:34 pm
it always takes time. people don't like confronting others. it's so much easier to wrap yourself in the warm cloak of denial. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 16, 2014, 07:31:54 pm
#SMÖRKATASTROF
#TOTALVRÄKTA###
#GULDSTORMEN###
#LORDNELSON###
#ODENMEDOSS###
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 16, 2014, 10:25:31 pm
Speak 'murrican, Nej.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2014, 12:29:51 pm
i'm thinking it has something to do with the Olympics. congrats, if that's what it is.


also, i don't normally keep up with sports, but i have much love for our Ice Dancing and Hockey teams, since they kick so much ass.


it's worth noting that Hockey is one of 2 sports i've watched willingly and would be a very proud Hockey mom. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 17, 2014, 12:39:21 pm
Only Olympic sport I really care about is bobsledding. TBH, I'd love to ride in a bobsled at least once
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2014, 12:41:34 pm
is that because of Mario Party
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on February 17, 2014, 12:50:58 pm
Partially Mario Party, and partially a rollercoaster I rode on at Six Flags eons ago; which at one point has the car go off rails as you glide through a half-pipe like you're in a bobsled. Damn that was fun >:3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 17, 2014, 01:03:47 pm
In summario: Sweden wrecked face in the ski relays. The Norwegian relay teams' (who were sort of favorites) skis were abysmally waxed and they failed spectacularly.
Ski wax in norwegian is "smör", which also means butter.
Curiously, a few years ago the norwegians ran out of butter all across the nation.
Thus, Smörkatastrof (butter catastrophe).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2014, 01:16:35 pm
@pent: niiiiice. -w-

@nej: i lol'd heartily. skal, my brother. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on February 17, 2014, 01:40:51 pm
@Nej: Ohhhh, thanks for clarifying. (Butter Catastrophe sounds like a Paula Deen recipe though.)

@Genpop: I've been watching a lot of the Olympics .... this is how I get my fill of sports every two years, lol.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 17, 2014, 03:22:22 pm
for once in my life i'm actually interested in them, it's weird. possibly because of the US Ice Dancing victory (i LOVE that), that poor snowboarder, and the fact that right now is Canada vs Switzerland in Women's Hockey Semifinals.

so, basically, my Mum vs my Dad. xD


(bonus points since one of the announcers is named pierre xDD )


on a different note, the Men's Ski Jumpers (or Aerials, as they're calling it) is going beautifully......till they land. warm conditions have wrecked the landing snow. ><;

AND SWITZERLAND NAILS IT
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on February 19, 2014, 02:06:19 pm
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/1ychmf/this_is_86_year_carroll_jordan_he_was_beaten_by/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on February 19, 2014, 04:43:55 pm
Don't worry guis I am only slightyl drunk
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 19, 2014, 07:20:36 pm
@leaf: please excuse me while i proceed to vomit
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on February 20, 2014, 09:10:53 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 19, 2014, 07:20:36 pm
@leaf: please excuse me while i proceed to vomit

It's dangerous to go alone, take this with you:
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 20, 2014, 09:42:07 am
how lovely that i saw this just as i was eating.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on February 20, 2014, 11:41:52 am
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on February 20, 2014, 09:42:07 am
how lovely that i saw this just as i was eating.

hue
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on February 28, 2014, 01:55:21 pm
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on February 28, 2014, 02:03:12 pm
wow this topic hasn't been getting much love recently
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on February 28, 2014, 07:29:30 pm
i don't want to live on this planet anymore...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 01, 2014, 11:39:07 am
Guys, guys, don't tell anyone
But

It's #Happening
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 01, 2014, 12:01:53 pm
Quote from: NejinOniwa on March 01, 2014, 11:39:07 am
Guys, guys, don't tell anyone
But

It's #Happening

What is?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 01, 2014, 12:28:33 pm
Have you located your closest fallout shelter, everyone?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 01, 2014, 01:39:28 pm
Cold War II: NEWclear Boogaloo?

Putin is a fucking despot and a joke, Russia deserves better. That's all I really have to say on the subject.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 01, 2014, 03:13:34 pm
That's just the thing.
It's not very cold at the moment...we are quite hot, quite hot indeed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 01, 2014, 10:01:42 pm
they literally said Hot War on the news.

looks like it's time i pick up an Israeli gas mask. or five.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 01, 2014, 10:06:07 pm
Looks like it's time I get the fuck off this planet :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on March 01, 2014, 11:06:39 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on March 01, 2014, 10:06:07 pm
Looks like it's time I get the fuck off this planet :\


Perhaps we should see how Richard Branson's orbital space launch system, designated LauncherOne, is coming along. Perhaps theres room for one more?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on March 02, 2014, 03:15:25 am


Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 02, 2014, 10:36:05 am
Looks like the happening is indeed happening.

Russian troops have been deployed throughout Crimea. Ukrainian ships are being forced away from their fleet bases in the Black Sea. An Ukrainian air defence base was disarmed by russian troops this morning, and other bases are presently surrounded with the russians asking for capitulation. Ukraine has opened up large-scale drafting to the masses, with enormous amounts of people surging to defend their country.

The Second Crimean War is beginning now.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 02, 2014, 11:58:52 pm
Alas the Ukranians have seen that there are some willing to kill them for an ocean exit
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on March 03, 2014, 01:30:48 am
Quote from: alfonso_rd_30 on March 03, 2014, 01:30:11 am
hey, don't get yer panties up in a bunch fer dat

that was meant for topicless *bad poker face*
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 03, 2014, 01:48:07 am
agreed
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 03, 2014, 09:08:18 pm
oh god. oh god this is really happening.

oh my fucking god.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Cockleshell on March 03, 2014, 09:38:11 pm
breathe is all we can do right now... nuclear winter may be on our doorstep
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on March 03, 2014, 09:44:10 pm
[spoiler=Redacted]Not to sound like the average clueless uneducated self-centered American i am, but can someone explain the world-wide impact of Russia's actions?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:36 pm
.....*facepalm*


someone else do it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: alfonso_rd_30 on March 03, 2014, 11:08:59 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:36 pm
.....*facepalm*


someone else do it.

**facepalm**

you're up choco

Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 03, 2014, 11:10:18 pm
NEJ

NEJ WHERE ARE YOU I NEED YOU
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on March 03, 2014, 11:11:05 pm
[spoiler=Redacted]I'm sorry. Its just all confusing to me.[/spoiler]
As far as i understand, Russia broke treaties and overstepped their bounds under the excuse of "protecting their interests", almost every other country has advised Russia to stop, [spoiler=Redacted]but other than that, im lost. ;-;[/spoiler]

Nvm.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 04, 2014, 02:31:30 am
Russia's interest lies in a Pro-Russian Ukraine that they can control and rely on to be a buffer state between the big Eastern European border of EU/NATO and Russia, just like they use Belarus. With the Pro-Russian Yanukovich ousted in favor of a Pro-EU revolutionary government, Putin acted on a more or less fabricated claim of unrest in Crimea where there is a large majority of ethnic Russians, and where there had been protests against the new Euromaidan government. There is now a wide standoff between the Ukrainians and Russian forces trying to force a surrender without fighting, and thus avoiding "actual military conflict" that the rest of the world will be pulled into. A massive propaganda war is being waged by the russians via Russia Today trying to make the Euromaidan government look like fascists and nazis (while Putin's own actions are startlingly similar to those of Hitler in 1936, and lots of Ukrainians are protesting with signs marked "Putler Kaput" bearing a caricature of Putin with Hitler's hair and mustache).

Poland and other countries close to Russia are taking this very seriously, moving their troops and calling for a meeting of the NATO. The situation is extremely tense.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: DustiiWolf on March 04, 2014, 02:42:58 am
Quote from: NejinOniwa on March 04, 2014, 02:31:30 am
Russia's interest lies in a Pro-Russian Ukraine that they can control and rely on to be a buffer state between the big Eastern European border of EU/NATO and Russia, just like they use Belarus. With the Pro-Russian Yanukovich ousted in favor of a Pro-EU revolutionary government, Putin acted on a more or less fabricated claim of unrest in Crimea where there is a large majority of ethnic Russians, and where there had been protests against the new Euromaidan government. There is now a wide standoff between the Ukrainians and Russian forces trying to force a surrender without fighting, and thus avoiding "actual military conflict" that the rest of the world will be pulled into. A massive propaganda war is being waged by the russians via Russia Today trying to make the Euromaidan government look like fascists and nazis (while Putin's own actions are startlingly similar to those of Hitler in 1936, and lots of Ukrainians are protesting with signs marked "Putler Kaput" bearing a caricature of Putin with Hitler's hair and mustache).

Poland and other countries close to Russia are taking this very seriously, moving their troops and calling for a meeting of the NATO. The situation is extremely tense.


thanks for the summary! Helps me understand better.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 04, 2014, 03:30:46 am
Right NOW there is a standoff between Russian and Ukrainian troops at Belbek. The Ukrainians left their base unarmed and are demanding access to the airfield (and the planes there) they've previously manned. Warning shots were fired by the Russians, but they later allowed 10 men through to tend to the planes. Crimean Tartar TV station ATR.ua is streaming the developments live.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 04, 2014, 09:19:02 am
what this means on the US's scale: due to past conflicts with Russia and Crimea and all this talk of Fascism, the US could easily be pulled into it if things get worse, either on the Rebels' side in the interests of "protecting freedom" or on Russia's side in the interests of "Acknowledging Camaraderie and Crushing Terrorist Opposition". it really only depends on what is said by who.

if the US becomes involved, it is inevitable that many other world powers (France, England, Germany, China, Japan, possibly the Koreas, perhaps even some of the Middle East) will get involved too, on either side. While we seem to have a better grasp on Thinking Before We Act now than we did back in 1935 (or 1916, since that was arguably worse), and we have a more level-headed president than we did back in 2002, the potential is real and it is there, staring us in the face. it really doesn't help that Obama doesn't seem to have much of a spine, so the declaration could even be out of his hands and in those of people more radical about this.

what this means on a global scale: in the event the US declares war, many other countries will follow suit. yes, it sounds narcissistic, yes it sounds bullshit, but like it or not we are an example for many countries around the world and we have a bad habit of dragging everyone else into stuff along with us. (this could be no more evident than in SatW.) if other countries get involved, they then have their own politics to think about here, meaning that petty spats could be solved on the world stage. sadly, this translates to one country bombing another in retaliation for some minor slight (blown out of proportion in response to some past wrong); victim then retaliates, attacker's friend bombs back, victim's friend bombs back, and next thing you know we have WWIII.


i'd like to think the potential for peace and diplomacy is there. but given the events of last year here in the US (Boston Marathon Bombing), the Arab Spring a few years ago, and the unrest that's been building over tyrannical leadership in Eastern Europe, i don't see that happening too easily. if it DOES happen, someone's going to have to sacrifice something, which just adds more pressure to the powder keg. >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on May 08, 2014, 07:33:59 pm
A guy a few years older then me killed himself in the park sometime this morning.  The contract road crew found his body and called park law enforcement while we were heading to the district office to pick up supplies.  Not really meant to spark a discussion or anything, it's just more serious then the usual Topicless subject.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 08, 2014, 09:08:11 pm
Holy fucking shit.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on May 10, 2014, 08:37:18 am
Damn... I wonder why.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 12:45:54 pm
no note, no reason? i doubt you knew him. have they figured out the cause of death?

something related, i found out a few weeks ago that a guy i had gone to school with since first grade died in florida. according to the grapevine his family had sent him to rehab once or twice, so we're thinking it was drugs. but still, it freaked me the fuck out.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 10, 2014, 12:50:18 pm
Strange.

Now, one thing that freaked me out was that an older man whom my sister worked with at the county committed suicide earlier this year. The part that really made it stand out in my mind was how it happened mere weeks after JewWario's passing, and the circumstances were disturbingly similar (As in the cause of death and the fact both were at home when they did it).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 12:55:57 pm
what are all of your thoughts on suicide?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 10, 2014, 01:17:10 pm
It's sad. I wish psychological illness wasn't stigmatized and that more people could access help before it gets to a point where they feel the only option is to take their life. Though I do believe there are times when it's understandable (such as terminal illness and other states of severe suffering)...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 01:34:04 pm
suicide is a very difficult decision when thought about rationally, since you need to weigh your pain against the pain of others. is mine harder than that which i will inflict upon my loved ones? will they be able to bear that burden?

as for the psychological aspects of it, i can speak from experience that even "receiving help" from professionals doesn't always "help". >>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 10, 2014, 01:42:50 pm
Indeed. Although I've considered seeking out mental healthcare due to various issues (most notably my occasional bouts of severe anxiety) I've held back due to fear of ending up with a bad counsellor/therapist ... although assholes in the medical profession is a topic for another time. Suffice to say I've avoided a lot of medical treatment due to fears of that nature.

Circling back to the original topic for a moment, according to Stew the man who committed suicide was a veteran ... any suicide is sad but that's particularly grim when you consider the abysmal mental healthcare system the military has in place and the high rates of PTSD, depression and suicide among enlisted members and veterans.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 10, 2014, 01:53:20 pm
I can vouch for that, at least in my case, all I needed was someone who actually cared for me and would take the time to listen to my problems; instead of how both of my parents would blow off my problems by saying "that's life", which comes off as "I don't care; please shut up".

If they do actually try to take their own life, or if they succeed in doing so, I don't look down on them for it; it might be shocking, but it doesn't make me think less of a person than if they died of dysentery or another cause. After all, when I think of JewWario, I remember him for the hilarious videos he made when he was still around, rather than remembering him for the cause of his death.

As for assholes in the medical profession, I worked with a bunch of them; those type were only in the field because it makes a ton of money, not caring about actually helping people. >_>;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on May 10, 2014, 02:11:02 pm
What do you guys think of people killing themselves over "cyberbullying"?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 02:14:39 pm
that really warms my heart pent, that you'd think that about people who take that route. calling them "selfish" or "cowardly" is only a way to make things worse in that case, since they're dealing with enough shit without people saying they're being selfish fucking idiots by even THINKING that. of COURSE they're thinking about what'll happen to others. but they need to think of themselves, too.

@bella: yeesh......that's even sadder. i hope his family is okay. i also can't help but wonder why he chose the park.

EDIT: dammit leaf, you fricken' sniped me.

it's just one of the many reasons people decide to end their existence. stress from life is a massive factor, as is mental issues, terminal illness and physical pain.

as for it happening, it's a travesty and i sincerely hope the people that pushed the victims into it live with that guilt the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on May 10, 2014, 02:30:40 pm
On the cyberbulling issue, on Tumblr I read that a user was getting anon hate telling them to kill themselves. So the user left for like a week or so, and the anon was like "I'm sorry I can't live knowing that I bullied someone to death" and stuff like that.

So yeah, they'll be sure as fuck living with that guilt.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 03:05:48 pm
i never really saw the point of cyberbullying....but then, i never saw the point of bullying in general. if your life is that sad that you feel the need to interfere in others, that's just pathetic.

however, the guilt is nice. let them learn their lesson the hard way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 10, 2014, 04:22:05 pm
Indeed. Bullying is pointless no matter what the reasoning may be, and it's sad how little is done to prevent it; rather than actually getting the bully to stop, instead they tell the victim to ignore it, which rarely works. Also made worse when the victim is punished for taking a stand for themselves, while the bully doesn't even get so much as a slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on May 10, 2014, 04:50:32 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 02:14:39 pm
EDIT: dammit leaf, you fricken' sniped me.

I didn't even-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on May 10, 2014, 09:57:14 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on May 10, 2014, 12:45:54 pm
no note, no reason? i doubt you knew him. have they figured out the cause of death?


One of the LE guys was going through some of his personal belongings the other day, he left notes.  And a lot of personal belongings.  I don't think I can really elaborate a whole lot on it since it is an open investigation and fucking ghoulish.  Suffice to say the gentleman was very much dead by his own hand.  And no, he was from another state, I didn't know him.  He came to the park to kill himself.  The parkway has the highest amount of suicides annually of any national park.

Let me be clearer then in my first post; let's not talk about this.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 11, 2014, 02:27:28 am
I want to know how he died. But I'm creepy and I don't want you to answer because I don't want to stress you out.

Sorry you had to find/deal with that today, man. :[
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 13, 2014, 01:07:42 am
>Browsing le tumblr
>On feminist-oriented blog
>Woman posts selfie in a (rather cute, but that's beside the point) "I <3 vaginas" teeshirt
>Read comments
>BOOOOO TRANSMISOGYNY!!! YOU'RE AWFUL!!!!!!! DIIIIIEEEEE CIS SCUMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse-fucking-me but how the bloody hell is a statement of LIKING a certain body part transmisogynistic?

Was she wearing a "I HATE PENISES" shirt? No????

Maybe she likes vaginas AND penises???? ?

Maybe she's raising awareness for gynecological cancer or other female reproductive issues or something along those lines????? ????

Did it not cross anyone's mind that assuming all transwomen have penises is -- well -- transmisogynistic???? Did nobody consider the transwomen who have transitioned and have vaginas?

TL;DR: Internet assholes make sweeping and slanderous claims about a person based on a single photograph.
TL;DR II: Transmisogyny is terrible but so is calling somebody a transphobe just because they're wearing a shirt reading "I <3 vaginas"
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on May 13, 2014, 05:21:20 am
That's why I hate SJWs. They tend to be hypocrites like that.

Also, considering the I<3 boobies craze of three+ years ago, I'm willing to bet that it's an awareness thing.

Quote from: Bella on May 13, 2014, 01:07:42 am
Did it not cross anyone's mind that assuming all transwomen have penises is -- well -- transmisogynistic???? Did nobody consider the transwomen who have transitioned and have vaginas?


Tumblr thinks that they're myths from the looks of it.

People there rarely consider post-op transpeople in general. :/
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 13, 2014, 08:20:22 am
I too like vagina, and am strongly opposed to penis, does that mean I hate guys?
No, I am one.
But that isn't the point, it's when you see people who have the need to read something and believe a lie that they told themselves because they likely failed their literacy classes. It's hilarious too how they would not even twist but add words because they don't like someone. It's not gender biased, it's a display of personal opinion that keep in mind harms only those who are dumb enough to take offence to it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 13, 2014, 12:22:05 pm
Indeed. There's a reason I stay far away from the social justice side of Tumblr; while some are reasonable, they seem like mere drops in a sea full of idiots who openly wish death upon anyone who is [cisgendered \ heterosexual \ white \ male], somehow failing to realize that they're no better than the people who are oppressing them, which in turn makes it harder for people to look at a certain cause and see it as worthwhile when you have the vocal minority making it look far worse.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on May 13, 2014, 02:38:08 pm
 I actually had followed an SJW once. I didn't care, in spite of the fact that she was constantly saying her hatred of one of the only priviledges I have, white priviledge, and that I got hurt because I was really stupid at the time.

I took all of that, as we more or less ran in the same circles. I ultimately unfollowed because she declared all fandoms to be trash and discriminatory. >_>
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 13, 2014, 09:47:02 pm
I feel like the tumblr SJ community has good ideas but -- IN GENERAL -- can't figure out how to properly implement any sort of advocacy?

I mean, being angry toward your oppressors is normal. There's nothing wrong with using your blog as a space to vent about your troubles. Demanding recognition and acceptance of various minority groups is good. Speaking as somebody who is a sexual minority, Tumblr helped me sort out my feelings about my orientation and learn a lot about it, and that I wasn't alone, and these are all amazing things.

At the same time though, it's such an echo-chamber and a breeding ground for all kinds of extremism? Being angry toward systems of oppression is one thing, but going out of your way to harass people because they're [white/European/cis/men/whatever] is gross and petty. It feels like there's either a huge US VS. THEM mentality or all sorts of bizarre self-destructive infighting. One day it's the queer/LGBTQA+ community vs. those terrible cishets, the next it's bisexuals vs. gays, pansexuals vs. bisexuals, everyone vs. asexuals, etc., etc. And don't even get me started on the hate I've seen toward binary transpeople, especially transmen.

I don't like the way that bloggers get pounced on for the mildest of mistakes/insensitivities. I don't like the way that rational, intelligent debate is discouraged because THAT'S TONE POLICING!!!!!!!. I don't like the way that people who are a part of minority groups are bashed by other members of the same group for having dissenting opinions. They'll tell you that not all [asexuals / nonbinary people / women / Latinos / etc.] are the same but THE MOMENT anyone states an opinion that goes against whatever the popular teaching of the day is, you're suddenly a traitor, you have internalized [transphobia / misogyny / racism / etc.] for believing what you do. I could go on.

None of these things are healthy or productive. And they sure as hell don't legitimize the movements their "proponents" are claiming to want to advance.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 13, 2014, 10:03:40 pm
Indeed. Also, on this bit:

Quote from: Bella on May 13, 2014, 09:47:02 pm
They'll tell you that not all [asexuals / nonbinary people / women / Latinos / etc.] are the same but THE MOMENT anyone states an opinion that goes against whatever the popular teaching of the day is, you're suddenly a traitor, you have internalized [transphobia / misogyny / racism / etc.] for believing what you do.


Reminds me of a trend I often see with them: one makes the statement "all men are scumbags", and counter-arguments of "not all men are the same" are completely ignored; like, everybody is different unless they're male, in which case they are all GOP-supporting rapists and anyone who says otherwise is playing devil's advocate.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 18, 2014, 10:00:50 am
one of the many things that puts me off tumblr and occasionally facebook: the rabid social justice brigade.

honestly, i avoid it on principle. if i happen to trip over something outrageous that i want to see the light of day (such as the Grell Cosplayer being beaten or the DAer having their art not only stolen but printed on a tshirt and sold by Hot Topic), i'll reblog them. but i don't follow any of their blogs, i don't go seeking their posts, and i don't pay attention to their rants.

honestly, if the world is going to change, it'll change just fine without me. and if it doesn't (which seems the more likely option), then none of this matters anyway.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 18, 2014, 10:38:03 am
At least you aren't like one of my coworkers; who openly said "life isn't fair; we learn this shit in Kindergarten. Nothing will ever change that, so deal with it"
(One of the many people I want to punch in the face, to be honest; mostly because is super anti-welfare and feels that people need to "get off their fat asses and work")
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 19, 2014, 10:58:24 am
see, don't kick his ass. punch him in the balls so much they turn to mush. so he can never pass his ignorance on to the future. : D
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 19, 2014, 01:08:02 pm
But that would mean that I am a racist incestuous child molester. Not everyone becomes like their parents, and its not a bad thing if they don't. Besides that, attacking his nuts doesn't guarantee he wont have kids, just look at the nut-shot kings healthy little girl.

And life isn't fair, it was never suppose to be. It doesn't mean however that we let the rude, inconsiderate, ingrates of everyday life control how things change. If we did that the world wound be worse off, rather find out whether the guy is breaking any rules and don't do any of his work for him. when nothing he is told to do gets done, all they will be looking at is him.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 27, 2014, 03:53:14 pm
after seeing this picture on facebook, i went on a bit of a rant.



Quote from: Facebookme: this is beautiful, but it doesn't make sense if this bike is in Washington. the US didn't enter WWI until 1917...

Colleen: Basic training, and post preparations. They may not know what was to happed, but he was already in when it started

me: exxxcept the US took an extremely neutral stance on the part of Woodrow Wilson until 1917 when they FINALLY decided to enter. they sold arms to both sides, and really only got involved due to 1. political pressure from their allies and 2. some isolated terroristic incidents in the US on the part of Central spies. the US wouldn't have even had reason to start preparing their soldiers for it until late 1916-early 1917, as we didn't enter until April 6th of that year.

perhaps the guy went off for training exercises onto a base beforehand, but that bike looks much too small for a man of a soldier's age.

and upon further review, snopes reveals that the bike, being a 1950's model, was likely just abandoned there.

sorry if i'm bursting a bubble, but when MASSIVE historical inaccuracies get passed around like this to people who don't know any better (or don't bother to check), it only further breeds the ignorance we have come to accept as a society standard.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/bicycle.asp


what are your guys' thoughts on historical inaccuracies being passed around as fact because of social media? is it worth getting uproarious about? or should we just not even bother?

i feel that, as a country, we all get a little bit dumber when one of these makes the rounds.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 27, 2014, 05:27:01 pm
Indeed; misrepresenting history is something that really irks me. You have no idea how hard my jimmies were rustled by the History Channel claiming the PlayStation to be the first CD-based video game console...nevermind the TurboGrafx-CD predates it by 5 years, and if we want to focus on mainstream, the Sega CD was the first one from a major company in that era. Granted, History Channel seems more interested in reality shows about lumberjacks and tinfoil hat conspiracy type stuff on how aliens invented pawn shops, than on actually being educational.

I've seen a lot of things like that above pic, where someone takes something and claims it to be something that it isn't. I remember once on Tumblr, seeing someone debunk the "girl in [foreign country] lying inside chalk drawing her mom; who was killed by US soldiers" image and story, as it was actually just a innocent snapshot of a kid at play, that someone got the fucked up idea to twist into a "military is bad and evil" message.

Of course, there's also other bullshit you'll see circulate on the claim of being "fact"; such as the "life-saving info that is totally real, bro" type stuff, like claiming that ATMs have a built in security feature where if you enter your PIN backwards when someone's trying to rob you, it'll lock up and summon police. If you apply any sort of common sense to it, you know it can't work; among many issues one can point out, the glaring one in my eyes is that wouldn't the bank prevent you from having a palindromic PIN, as that would prevent the security function from working?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 27, 2014, 10:12:43 pm
not to mention that just being too damn convenient. ATMs have been around long enough for people to know whether or not that's true.

i try not to hesitate to correct people, since, while i might sound like a bitch, i'd rather be the bitch that's going to fucking educate you than the nice guy who'll go on letting you look like a goddamn moron.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on May 27, 2014, 10:39:25 pm
It was around before social media was invented, such things will outlast Facebook.

Remember, historical fact is my job.  I get to hear that kind of thing every day.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 28, 2014, 08:15:51 am
Here is a topic for debate, you know how when the PS4 and Xbox One came out, they put a ban on borrowing and trading games. wanting people to buy them new every time.

So here is the question.
Is this a good thing or bad thing and why?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 28, 2014, 10:37:37 am
As far as I can remember, Xbox One was the only one going to do that; in fact, Sony released an ad for the PS4 as a parody of how-to videos, on how to play used games on PS4 (I'll try to find it later).

As for whither it's a good thing or not, that's a definite "no". I honestly don't get the recent fad with game developers making used games out to be a form of piracy; they already got their money from one customer's initial purchase of Battlefield 4, so if that customer decides to sell it to their local game store, they should be free to do so without the developer interfering or demanding a cut of the money. After all, you don't see Toyota or another car manufacturer demanding they get a cut of the profits of someone selling an old Corolla.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 28, 2014, 11:42:35 am
Yet people sell them back to gamestop and other stores and dont see another cent of profit afterwards. People continue to get the used option verses buying a new one.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 28, 2014, 12:29:00 pm
Which is why they should give some incentive to buy new in the first place; something small to make people want to pay the extra $5 and get new over used. For example, rather than "online passes" and other such things to lock out major game content, instead giving you a one-time code to obtain a shiny Charizard when you buy a new copy of the latest Pokémon game or something like that. They can also, as much as I hate to say it, release DLC to get people to buy more stuff.

Besides, not every game is going to be available new in stores forever; some get short print runs, and if there's a "no used games" policy in place, you have to hope you can find a new copy at all, and then you best be ready to pay well above the original tag price (For an example of this, look on Amazon for a new copy of Kirby's Return to Dream Land).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 28, 2014, 01:56:02 pm
the way i see it, i'm too poor to afford new things
so it's either buy it used
or pirate it
or ignore it and be sad and out of the loop and resent the company and never buy anything of theirs again.

in terms of books, video games, etc, if i can get it used, i will. that is, if i can't pirate it.

(there ARE one or two books i'd buy new, but that's for different reasons)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on May 28, 2014, 05:42:43 pm
Xbox was originally going to use a system where you can give games to people on your friendslist, but they presented it in such a stupid way that everyone rioted and a lot did not understand.

You could give Xbox One games you no longer wanted to people that had been on your friendslist for 1 month and they received them permanently. At the time they were also looking at a loaning system where you could give someone a game for a predetermined time, then you get it back.

Considering this was in place for disc AND modern (digital) games, that is really impressive. I could buy Halo 5 on a disc and when I beat it, transfer it to Bella, now she owns Halo 5. I can't give her the physical disc and have it work this way because her Xbox One account doesn't own it, but why would I? She needs an Xbox one to play the game anyway, so I'll just give it to her using it without leaving the room.

I'm not even going go into the fact that 10 'family' members could play all games in your game library.

it is a shame they presented it so stupidly that it got changed due to misinformation and panic, the system wasn't half as bad as people make it out to be and was pretty bold. I don't own an Xbox One, but this looks pretty progressive compared to say, Steam.


wait
I just defended a microsoft device, what am I doing with my life.  :'(
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on May 29, 2014, 12:44:31 am
Tbh, the system Kriz outlined seems fairly reasonable. However, I struggle to understand HOW a game disc is inherently different from a music CD, a movie on a DVD, a book, or any other form of media which can be freely resold.

Going back a little earlier, I'm also really annoyed when people repeat historical mistruths as fact. It's annoying if it's done out of ignorance or confusion, but it's downright heinous if it's done to advance an agenda. -___-

Back onto the topic of gaming for a moment
>On tumblr
>Somebody writes a post challenging the idea that all female characters in games are cookie-cutter and hypersexualized
>Posts images of a variety female characters from famous games: Alyx Vance, Lara Croft (post-reboot), Zelda, Chell, Samus Aran in her armor, GLaDOS in potato form, etc. etc.
>Some smartass criticizes the post
>Asks why a robot (Samus) and a potato (GLaDOS) are on the list, because robots and potatoes are sexless and thus can't be female characters
>Samus Aran
>A robot
>PotaDOS
>A potato

>Sexless
>"What does this have to do with females in games?"

>BRO DO U EVEN GAME
>OR USE THE INTERNET
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on May 29, 2014, 01:40:39 am
Quote from: Bella on May 29, 2014, 12:44:31 am
Tbh, the system Kriz outlined seems fairly reasonable. However, I struggle to understand HOW a game disc is inherently different from a music CD, a movie on a DVD, a book, or any other form of media which can be freely resold.


I'm pretty sure they did that because you can play the game without its disc now, which means I could pass the disc around to all my friends and they would "own" the game... (since discs are ROM) so now the info is tied to your account on what games you own and don't own.
The disc has moved from containing information as a movie dvd or book does, to being an outdated delivery platform for the game and being easy to abuse due to this feature.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 29, 2014, 01:49:27 am
@Bella: Such stupid. Wow. How do they not know who Samus is? >_<;

@Kriz: I don't really see the disc as being outdated; as an all-digital distribution platform screws over those of us whom have terrible internet connections, which makes up a bulk of the midwest and some areas of the southwest :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on May 29, 2014, 01:51:51 am
Quote from: PentiumMMX on May 29, 2014, 01:49:27 am
@Bella: Such stupid. Wow. How do they not know who Samus is? >_<;


why can't metroid crawl
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 29, 2014, 08:45:40 am
agreeing with pent here--discs are NOT outdated man, i take offense to that.

regardless of physical or non-physical form, restricting people's ability to buy/sell used games just hurts the VG market as a whole, as not everyone gets exposure to new games, thus shrinking the future market for them (why would i play Ice Cream Man 2 when i haven't played Ice Cream Man 1?). some of us (such as pent) can't do digital-only games, either because of a lack of reliable (or any) internet connection, or because they lack friends to pass them on to (etc etc). others, in my case, ONLY buy used games because (sadly) we're poor and thus are not going to drop an additional $30 on something non-vital just because of some sparkley limited-edition outfit.

if gamestop had the faculties in place to sell non-physical items, everyone would be in a much better place about this, since the codes could be sold (with or without DLC; the price may go up if DLC is included) and then bought at a slightly reduced price to the new consumer. if MS gets their panties in a bunch over "lost profits", perhaps they could take 10% or just disallow the passing on of DLC so the player would have to buy it all again. not that they should get their panties in a bunch anyway, with the exorbitantly high prices of games these days anyway.... >>;

even if this system WAS in place, i would STILL buy a physical disc over a digital code. i've had enough systems fail on me to know that handing over cash for non-physical items is a dumbass move, no matter how many server backups the parent company does.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 29, 2014, 11:34:24 am
For me, in terms of digital purchases, it depends on how it's handled. For instance, Steam keeps record of every game I've bought, so if I move to a different computer or my current one goes down, I don't lose everything (At worst, I have to redownload everything). Meanwhile, if my Wii dies, I lose all of my downloaded games because Nintendo can't internet :\
(You can't even transfer Wii-to-Wii; it's strictly a one-way to Wii U transfer)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 29, 2014, 12:43:25 pm
s'one of the reasons i don't buy anything from apple anymore (outside of apps). their policies on "unlocking" stuff via registering a password with the computer (and removing other computers from the queue above 5) pisses me off, since by that means, i can't share with friends.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 30, 2014, 11:00:59 am
Here is another idea.
What if movies where moved from hardcopy DVD to read only Micro SDcards
Entire series can be in a 4gig, the average movie is 1.5 to 2 gigs in highest quality.
And I'm pretty sure it would reduce costs.
Most people own devices that can read various file types as well.
On the topic of flimsiness iI've see these things trampled and left it a rain storm for three days and still work fine
Would this work, and is it worth the switch?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on May 30, 2014, 11:18:48 am
That might work; as it would fix the problem of scratched DVDs, but on the other hand, it'd bring forth new problems like how easy it is to lose a MicroSD card due to its size (Plus likelihood of a dog or child swallowing it). It's like the jump from VHS to DVD; DVD owners didn't have to worry about the main issues of VHS (Malfunctioning player eating the tapes, having to rewind once finished, etc.), but in turn, they had new problems to watch out for (Scratches being the major one).

BluRay is at least a step in the right direction, as they're much more scratch-resistant than DVD (As in, they're less likely to get scratches from basic use), although the need in online updates for the player is a major downside (As the patches are often large. This goes back to what I mentioned earlier about how not everyone has proper high-speed internet)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on May 30, 2014, 11:42:24 am
The internet speed is the reason I say this. Though I get what you mean with the kids.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on May 30, 2014, 09:46:21 pm
some of us don't have the money to switch----!
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on June 01, 2014, 04:27:35 am
>EU Parliament elections
>riksdag elections this fall
>degeneracy, stupidity and racism everywhere
>dat media control
Okay, world, I've seen enough. This is why you need me in charge.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 01, 2014, 01:12:58 pm
Nejin Oniwa for World President 2014

Seriously though, I'm not super up-to-date on what's going on in European politics (well, with the exception of Ukraine and Russia, which gets a lot of coverage even on US news) but I've heard that "conservative"/nationalist parties and candidates have gained ground? What the fuck's up with that? Backlash against immigration?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on June 01, 2014, 04:48:09 pm
Pretty much. Included in mess, however, are 2 parties that are openly national-socialistic in some way or another: Golden Dawn (Greece) and that one german party I can't remember the name of because it's not the OG NSDAP.

Yes, German nazis in the EU parliament. We know.

On our side, however, radical feminist and extreme leftist party Feministiskt Initiativ gained one mandate (out of our 20 EU chairs), and the increasingly culturally liberal Green party gained one mandate; my poor pirates lost both their chairs, but at least the Germans have so absurdly many mandates to hand out that they managed to grab one over there so we're at least still sort of in the parliament. Meanwhile our local nationalist party Sverigedemokraterna gained 2 chairs, largely at the expense of the Moderate party who have lost a lot of confidence due being absolute shit in running the riksdag these last 8 years and people are starting to realize that now.

So now the stage is set for all hell to break loose in the riksdag elections this fall.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on June 01, 2014, 06:15:21 pm
[spoiler]I don't know jack shit about politics.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 02, 2014, 08:47:26 pm
@nej: well, in the event that HAPPENINGS commence, you can hide out here until nuclear winter claims the continent. with that in mind, good luck.

if it's any consolation, shit isn't going too well over here. we're not NEARLY as crazy as you guys, but it's been almost 4 years since Health Care Reform became a thing here and people are STILL mad about it. people are actually running for senate in this state on the platform that they want to repeal it. considering they've started showing political ads earlier and earlier these past couple years, i expect things to get to a boiling point over the summer and come november if ANYONE gets in my face about voting "Probamacare" (or whatever the fuck they're gonna call it), i'm gonna be punching someone in the face.

not really the most mature route, but the "facts" they bring up (or, rather, assumptions and outright lies) get more and more infuriating as time goes on. (it's going to tank the damn economy? 1, we're already fucking tanked, and 2, Sweden introduced UHC in 1965 and THEY turned out fine. it's harmful to the current way of doing things? seems more harmful to leave half the country uninsured. you have to drive half an hour to a hospital? well hey, at least we can all actually GO to hospitals now. >>; )

what baffles me (but only slightly, as nothing surprises me anymore) more is that some people who oppose it don't even seem to realize that there were people WITHOUT it. a lady commented to my mum at work about it and mum said she was extremely appreciative of it, seeing as how she hadn't had health insurance since 1992. the woman was aghast.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 02, 2014, 09:38:36 pm
Indeed.

Basically, disregarding how lonely I am here, you should never set foot in Texas; you'd go on a homicidal rampage, as 99.9999% of people here are anti-Obama, anti-LGBT, strongly against any religions that aren't Christian (Judaism often gets a free pass, at least), hates everyone and everything north of the Mason-Dixon line, takes the word of Fox News as gospel, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on June 02, 2014, 10:02:08 pm
I am neutral on Obamacare.
Like many laws as complex as it, I like some parts and dislike others.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 02, 2014, 10:07:41 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on June 02, 2014, 09:38:36 pm
Basically, disregarding how lonely I am here, you should never set foot in Texas; you'd go on a homicidal rampage, as 99.9999% of people here are anti-Obama, anti-LGBT, strongly against any religions that aren't Christian (Judaism often gets a free pass, at least), hates everyone and everything north of the Mason-Dixon line, takes the word of Fox News as gospel, etc. etc.


Not to be One Of Those People, but ~41% of Texans are Democrats (.or at least voted democratic in the 2012 presidential elections). Austin is very liberal, El Paso is democratic too, and most of the large cities lean liberal and have relatively large populations of Democrats. With the growing numbers of Latinos in Texas, the state's projected to skew farther toward the Democratic party in the future.

That said, the Republicans/Conservatives have a stronghold on all the rural and small-town regions. And Texas Latinos on average vote less liberal than Latinos elsewhere. Texas probably isn't going to become a blue state anytime soon, but there are certainly oases of moderate and liberal politics.

I can't say I'm completely happy with how the Affordable Care Act has been implemented but America needed to do SOMETHING about the runaway healthcare costs and stranglehold insurance companies have on people. It's a good first step.

Looking at things personally this is the first time I've had "actual" health insurance (not counting Healthy Kids, or whatever the program for lower-income youths is called). I'm finally actually looking after my health proactively, getting medicated for my skin condition, keeping up with immunizations and the like, which I couldn't have afforded before i had insurance.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 02, 2014, 10:34:32 pm
TBH that seems less believable than Half-Life 3 coming out in my lifetime :\

Granted, I did grow up in a small town that is very conservative; because of that, it's hard to picture that 41% figure as true when you regularly hear people proclaiming that George W. Bush was the best thing to happen to America with 111% seriousness, see anti-liberal bumper stickers constantly, and Fox News is the default news channel. As established, I might not hate the entire state so much if it wasn't for the town I was cursed to live in.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 03, 2014, 12:42:29 am
one of the many reasons i can never see a reason to travel there. sad that i'll never have a shot at voice acting work, but hey, they could take my shit over the internet if they wanted. it's their own fucking fault for being in houston.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on June 03, 2014, 10:46:15 pm


Am I seriously the only person in the world (internet[this site{active posters}]) that doesn't obsess about living in cities and while they really like the north east aren't determined to live there?  Seriously, my home town is measured in the hundreds of people and where I live now the population is measured in dozens and I like it here despite the constant low grade right wing agitation in places.  Because have I mentioned I don't like cities yet?  'cause I don't.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 03, 2014, 11:01:14 pm
Small towns/rural areas that are full of rational, kind, tolerant people (pretty common in New England) = good.

Small towns/rural areas that are full of irrational, hateful, intolerant jackasses (as Pent describes his area) = badbadbadbadbad.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 03, 2014, 11:20:59 pm
What Bella said. If the people here were actually as nice as they claim to be, it'd be one thing, but the fact they're all "WE TEXANS ARE NICER THAN THOSE GODDAMN YANKEES" but will pull a gun on you the instant you reveal not having the same exact worldview as them makes it far worse :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on June 04, 2014, 12:16:39 am
Quote from: stewartsage on June 03, 2014, 10:46:15 pm

Am I seriously the only person in the world (internet[this site{active posters}]) that doesn't obsess about living in cities and while they really like the north east aren't determined to live there?


I would hate living in the city.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on June 04, 2014, 07:38:47 am
Quote from: stewartsage on June 03, 2014, 10:46:15 pm
Am I seriously the only person in the world (internet[this site{active posters}]) that doesn't obsess about living in cities and while they really like the north east aren't determined to live there?  Seriously, my home town is measured in the hundreds of people and where I live now the population is measured in dozens and I like it here despite the constant low grade right wing agitation in places.  Because have I mentioned I don't like cities yet?  'cause I don't.

To be honest, my experiences with this may be sort of limited, but let's sort them out:
1 - my hometown is a decently largeish Stockholm suburb, with train connections to everything. There's plenty of intolerance abound mainly because of the very high amount of immigrants living in the central district, and the west side at one point was a stronghold for neo-nazis. Things have calmed down, though. While nothing feels very rural per se since it's a 10 minute walk to the town center and/or train station and most places are quite busy, my district is curiously intermeshed with swaths of nature to the point where the trees outnumber the houses by far in some areas. It's very noticeable that the entire town has been more or less carved out of the forest, which is something I quite like.
2 - Uppsala, where I live now, is a smallish city, with no subway lines or trams like the other big 3 cities in Sweden (Gothenburg, Malmö, Stockholm). It is absolutely rife with students, and quite rife with hardline leftists - more so depending on what program/course you're taking. 50% of the city's 250k population is somehow connected to the university, and I think the total number of students is 60-75k or so. As such, crazy things connected to student life happen rather regularly, and are very much accepted - though parts of the city population tends to GTFO during the most intense studenticose happenings like Walpurgis - and embraced. Immigrants in the form of guest students are quite common. All in all the city is a fair deal further left than I'd prefer, and the nuttier parts of the academia are rather creepy to deal with; other than that, it's a decent enough place to live as far as cities go. I'd never contemplate living in central Stockholm or any other similarly sized city, but central-ish Uppsala is a completely different thing.
3: I spent one year living on Gotland, which is a rather isolated island in the Baltic and Sweden's largest island. The island is rather a tourist paradise during summer, and gets an enormous influx during the warm months; population goes from 50k for the entire island to 500k. While most of this is concentrated around the walled county capital of Visby, I lived in Fårösund at the northern edge of the island, in a tiny ghost town full of empty summer houses and abandoned/repurposed military facilities. While skating/skiing around the quite flat roads and trails was quite fun, it was a quite dead place to live in with about 500 permanent inhabitants spread out over an area appropriate for 5000. Think of it as you may like.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 04, 2014, 02:25:41 pm
i can mirror nej's post a bit, actually.

1. hometown is a suburb of sorts, although whether it's a Boston suburb or a Manchester/Concord (or hell, even Nashua) suburb is up to the person you ask. it's rather quiet, and was rather pretty (Windham is trying to urbanize itself more now at the expense of everything i liked about it, including the trees, some historical buildings and quiet spots), but had little to nothing to do. there are no sidewalks, nothing really close to my house that's interesting for a kid (there was the town beach, but i've harboured a slight hatred of that place since i was small), and there were no kids on my street, so we spent all our time at home doing nothing.

alternate hometown is still quiet, still suburb (once again, could be a suburb of either Boston or Manchester), but thankfully had more to do. there were kids on the street at my grandparents, plenty of sidewalks, and everything is very close; Salem truly captures the good side of small-town america. (both windham and salem have a pop. of between 10-20k.) there is no public transit but with the library, schools, community centre, restaurants and konbinis so close there was never much need for it. a former friend, James, was even known to walk clear to the other side of town (several miles), which wasn't much of a problem, honestly.

2. commuting to Boston opened up a whole new world to my eyes. the city isn't the largest in the world, but that's a good thing; it's the right size to be comfortable. travel was a breeze with sidewalks, taxis, buses, and my favourite, the subway, all over the damn place, leaving the entire city and beyond at your fingertips. this meant that, after class in Kenmore Square, i could hop on the train and go out for tea and ice cream on mondays with my friend and classmate, Kim, in Cambridge (not very far by car, but far by walking, definitely (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=kenmore+square+to+harvard+square&ie=UTF-8&ei=BGCPU6_vJ9axsATQzIHIDw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ)) in a relatively short time, after which i could hop right back on the train and catch the bus home. the city felt so much more alive than my town did, mostly because of the ability to go anywhere and see anything i wanted in the blink of an eye. it was worlds away from spending my afternoons stuck in the living room at home.

in terms of living there, though, that's a problem. city living is very expensive (plus there's mass tax) and very hard to do as space is at a premium. i had the option of living in a dorm but i turned it down flat due to the massive cost and lack of my own space. unless i could get/afford an apartment, i would never consider living there, and even then i'd probably miss the "countryside" too much (mostly the ability to see the stars at night). still, though, i miss the subways in Boston quite a bit.

3. i have visited New York City twice, and while i had fun both times, if Boston is a zoo, then NYC is a goddamn safari. the place is nuts and i can only imagine the cost of living there. their subway system is utter chaos compared to Boston (in theory it's more organized, but they have every letter of the alphabet, several numbers, 28 different colours and even different sign shapes) and while walking to places is actually quite easy (given the grid system), it still makes for very long trips. at least there's taxis......thousands of fucking taxis. holy shit there's a lot of taxis. it's nice to have access to so many different things (shops, restaurants, museums, community centres, churches, etc etc), but honestly, the size difference really doesn't seem worth it for more than a visit. perhaps, though, living there might change one's mind, as my sister adapted quite well in the Bronx....

4. i've been to Canada twice and stayed in Stanley with my relatives........and oh my god you guys cannot imagine how tiny it is. Stew, i realize you live in tiny surroundings. but you have not been to motherfucking Stanley, NB, Canada (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=stanley,+new+brunswick,+canada&ie=UTF-8&ei=_2KPU7OiDYapsATR7oDoBg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ), population 305 (or maybe 304, since that one guy killed himself a few years back). it is an hour removed from ANY manner of civilization and the ONLY major thing to do there besides roam the woods or linger at the county store is the Hockey Rink. hell, google classifies it as a Village. the landscape is lovely (in a country sort of way) and the sky lights up brighter than Las Vegas at night, but i don't think i could handle that tradeoff, either. that's TOO much.

TL;DR: i enjoy being within 30 minutes of a city. if i could have my own place, to my self, and i could afford it, i would consider living in a smaller to mid-size city such as Boston, provided it had good public transit. otherwise, i have a car, i enjoy the stars, and rather like where i am now (Salem, that is, Windham sucks and always will).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 04, 2014, 02:52:33 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on June 04, 2014, 02:25:41 pm
TL;DR: i enjoy being within 30 minutes of a city. if i could have my own place, to my self, and i could afford it, i would consider living in a smaller to mid-size city such as Boston, provided it had good public transit. otherwise, i have a car, i enjoy the stars, and rather like where i am now (Salem, that is, Windham sucks and always will).


ARE YOU ME, KARI?! Because this is exactly how I feel tbh.

If i was wealthy enough to afford a comfortable, nice apartment I'd be okay with living in the city.

However I'd prefer to live outside a city in a small-townish environment. Close enough to commute in for work, but far enough away to have some peace and quiet and space away from people if I so choose.

I also agree with you on the NYC vs. Boston thing. NYC is fun to visit but i could never spend significant time there. Too big, too dirty, too noisy, too chaotic, quite frequently too rude as well.

There are a couple strange (and probably controversial) opinions I want to post here but idk if they'd fit, because they mostly have to do with fictional matters.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 04, 2014, 03:17:34 pm
Truth be told, ignoring the sociopolitical aspects of Palestine, which is my major issue with this place (see my previous posts), it's alright; it's easy to navigate, and if you know where to look, there are some nice, comfortable, quiet places to go to. Just, it'd be nice if there was more to do; at least Tyler isn't too far, which gives me more variety in stores -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on June 04, 2014, 03:24:58 pm
I live out in the country in a nice small house on a hill in SC...
before this, I lived... out in the country in a nice small house on a hill in WV.
It does not get better for me  :)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 04, 2014, 04:19:29 pm
@pent: you'd be happier in salem. tons within walking distance (including our own THEEEEME PAAAARK), quiet,  and people tend not to wear their views on their sleeve. their cars, yes, but that's about it.

@bells: we're all friends here. post away.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on June 04, 2014, 11:05:47 pm
Kari, Cass, WV has a population of 52.  Green Bank, five miles away, has a population of 143.  The county seat has a whopping 1,000.  Pocahontas County as a whole, all 900+ square miles, has a population of just about eight thousand.  The nearest grocery store is at least an hour away and the same to medical/dental care.  At night it's pitch black because you're below towering mountains and there's no light pollution.  If there's no moon it's absolutely, utterly dark.  I lived there in an ancient wooden house alone for six months excepting Candace's visit and a twice monthly weekend stay from mechanics.  Also there was snow.  Never over a foot but I did leave in early November.  I've been a-god damn-lone before.  I liked it.  If the pay was better I'd have liked it even more.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: LeaflameSD on June 06, 2014, 02:43:11 am
i live in the suburbs
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 07, 2014, 01:56:28 pm
@stew: you win, sorry i assumed otherwise. at the very least, i know somewhat how you've lived. i'm just happy i wasn't in canada in the winter.

curious, though, if you could find that sort of environment here, would you move here?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on June 10, 2014, 12:06:18 am
I like New England.  I just don't want to live in Boston or it's suburbs.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 10, 2014, 12:56:51 pm
Breaking News: Almost Everything Within 100 Miles of Boston is its Suburb

jk, but "suburb of Boston" is a touch hard to define. maybe you could live in the woods in Vermont or Maine (i recommend Maine -w- ).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on June 10, 2014, 09:50:32 pm
I like Springfield.  Apparently no one else does.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 10, 2014, 09:53:19 pm
But, Brad Jones and Homer Simpson seem to like it in Springfield
I had to say it -w-;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on June 11, 2014, 01:26:13 am
Quote from: stewartsage on June 10, 2014, 09:50:32 pm
I like Springfield.  Apparently no one else does.


Full disclosure: I """know""" one person from Springfield. Old work acquaintance of my dad (not friends, mind you). He lives with his family out in a cabin in the woods, owns 40 guns or so, complained a lot about the government and the country "going to hell" because of the terrors of liberalism and African Americans in the White House and acted annoyed and confused when my dad voiced support for Barack Obama and social welfare programs. I was around him for ... maybe an hour. Once. Four years ago.

Any impressions I have of western Mass as being po-dunk and yokel-y are probably 100% off the mark since he's the only exposure I've had to the place. (And, well, I've met rednecks from Boston as well, unlikely as that may seem.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 11, 2014, 11:27:40 pm
Springfield is an odd town around these parts in that it is, quite literally, a town with a "wrong side of the tracks". one side is upper-middle-class and quite nice and exactly what you would expect from a New England town, quiet and peaceful and all that. then you cross the railroad tracks and everything is EXTREMELY poor. like, Lynn level poor. the houses are in disrepair and the streets are cracked, and drugs are dealt while welfare moms push strollers full of 4 children at once.

the latter half of the last sentence may be slight exaggeration, since i have no first-hand experience of that. but from what i recall most of the town's employment is either at a nearby prison (once again, cannot completely confirm) or at the Six Flags franchise in town. so depending on where you live in town, i'll come visit. they have a nice armoury, too. :000
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on June 26, 2014, 03:05:10 pm

Womens choice?
Kill the boy right?
???
Troll post I hope.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on June 26, 2014, 03:45:51 pm
that'd BETTER be a troll post.

see, i'd say it is one, but i never doubt the idiocy of others.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on June 26, 2014, 06:26:54 pm
Indeed. One of those things that falls under Poe's Law :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 07, 2014, 01:45:29 pm
Pardon the double post, or if I'm even in the right topic for this, but honestly I seek some feedback on my current situation:

So, my plans for moving out have been delayed; there's really no way for me to quickly get the obscene amount of money I need together quickly enough to get out of here. I honestly hate my job at Wal-Mart more than you can possibly imagine; my coworkers are great, but there's too much bullshit with customers and behind-the-scenes stuff to make it worthwhile (I didn't even get a break yesterday; I was already tired from my previous job in the morning and I was left with the only coworker whom doesn't have access to the special scanner to figure out where stuff goes, when we have to put out a fuckton of new items quickly. Factor in that I haven't had anything to eat since breakfast, and you have a clear idea of how I felt that day). Also, said job is conflicting with my job at Pizza Hut; Wal-Mart wants to be top priority because they're "more important", while my boss at Pizza Hut "never agreed" to working around my Wal-Mart schedule; making this a giant headache that makes it feel like I'm about to get fired from the job I do like and be forever trapped at the one that makes me hate myself every waking moment I'm in that building.

Unfortunately, I was referred by my former boss from Gamestop; whom is working at Wal-Mart now in a different department. I really don't want to burn him by leaving without some reasoning that actually sounds good, but honestly I'm starting to wonder if maybe that's my best bet at this point; I simply cannot handle all the bullshit I have to deal with, at home and at work. I have been told I can transfer to another department in 6 months...but there's no way I can last that long. Besides, staying that long means I have to work Black Friday; a day that is so bad that the idea of injuring myself in a way that I have to be hospitalized (Such as having someone run over my foot with their car) is more pleasant than the idea of working at Wal-Mart on that day (As I feel like I need to wear chainmail to keep customers from stabbing me over running out of cheap laptops).

I've considered going to college, yes, but putting aside the costs as far as money, there's the costs as far as time; apparently, for what I want to do, it sounds like it's going to take a few years to complete, in which time I'll be trapped here with mom until I graduate and land a job. On one hand, studying to be a lab tech would be cool, but on the other, I can't bear the thought of doing anything that will keep me tied down to this house for an extended period.

I've considered trying to get a job in Tyler and moving there as a middleground, but there's the fact I don't have a reliable means of transportation to get back and forth from there until I have the money for an apartment. Even then, there's the risk of getting stuck there for life because of all the bills tying me down; better than Palestine, sure, but not where I want to be.

Honestly, I'm at a complete loss over what I should do; seems like every option requires taking money out of my moving fund and/or being locked down to this accursed place for an extended period. Any advice on what I should do would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 07, 2014, 07:22:01 pm
I think going to college is a good idea, especially since you want to go into a field that requires a degree and -- I don't mean to sound harsh here -- don't have any other plans for a career that wouldn't require a degree (just throwing this out here as an example, plenty of artists aren't formally-trained, computer repair techs are often self-taught and programmers can find freelance work even if they don't have a degree). Money shouldn't be an issue for you either -- considering that you're not a dependent and don't have a whole lot of money, you should get a lot of aid from FAFSA. I'm a dependent, my dad is in a fairly low income bracket and my tuition (about $3000 a semester) is all but covered by financial aid. I imagine your situation will be fairly similar, but you have to apply for the aid to find out.

Going to school may impede your departure, yes. But there's a good chance if you end up in a dead-end retail or food service job you'll be stuck at home anyway, and will continue to stagnate and not be able to leave -- a self-perpetuating cycle. Getting a degree and a good job is the best way to get out for good, even if it takes a little while longer.

Also, if you're in classes a few days a week you'll be able to get out and meet people. It's not to say you aren't already with your jobs, but a college environment is a lot different from a work one; in my experience it's less formal, more social and offers a level of intellectual enrichment you won't find in any workplace. Which isn't to say it's not challenging -- because it is -- but there's a reward for your hard work and dedication. There's no such reward in a fast food or big-box-store-retail environment, where the only "incentive" available is the  distant possibility of a raise of a few dollars, and the odds of serious advancement (like getting into a management position) is infinitesimal.

Speaking from personal experience, I've worked in a dead-end, retail-ish environment and have completed two semesters of community college. When I was working, it was all about the boss. All about the business. All about the customers, and what I can do to help THE CORPORATION. At school it's the opposite -- it's all about what I can do to help myself and my classmates, in general a sense of self-enrichment and self-advancement. I feel like community colleges are more egalitarian and hard-working in this regard -- nobody's there for the ~*glory of a flashy degree*~ or because daddy's trust fund money sent them. A lot of my classmates are sensible, mature people who wish to better themselves through education and career, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if you met similar types of people at your local college.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 08, 2014, 12:49:07 pm
Indeed. Currently processing the financial aid paperwork; still some info I need to retrieve before I can submit it.

I missed the deadline for fall classes, but I have enough time to try and prep for spring classes; if they at least offer some of what I need.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 09, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
>Live in Virginia
>Be 17 year old boy
>Date 15 year old girl
>Sext
>Have GF's mother find out and throw a shitfit
>Get slapped with criminal charges
>Have prosecutors want to drug you and photograph your genitals (and in the process produce child porn) in order to obtain evidence

There isn't a single thing about this story that doesn't make me want to bash some teeth in.  (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/07/09/in-sexting-case-manassas-city-police-want-to-photograph-teen-in-sexually-explicit-manner-lawyers-say/)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Cockleshell on July 09, 2014, 05:42:27 pm
Western Mass is definitely po-dunk white trashland. Granted, they're educated white trash, but they're still that type. Vermont, here I come~
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 09, 2014, 06:16:17 pm
Vermont's full of hicks too tbh. There are lots in NH as well, but they're mostly h'up nawth. Central NH is chock full of hippies, liberals, fuck-tha-police-I-do-what-I-want-mountainfolk-libertarians and disgustingly rich conservatives (Lakes Region mostly), lower NH is pretty culturally-congruent with the neighboring areas of Mass.

For some reason, in my experience Vermonters are rude.... maybe it's because I've spent a lot of time in the Lake Champlain region, which neighbors NY, and NYers tend to be gruff and impersonal after dealing with New Englandahs. New Hampshirites are kind of neutral to me. At least most of the people in this area keep out of others' business and don't judge, even if they don't necessarily agree with your style or politics. The nicest people I've met in New England are by and far southern Massachusettsans and Rhode Islanders. Most of the Bostonians I've dealt with are cool too.

Incidentally a lot of the Marylanders and Washingtonians I've encountered have been nice. West Virginians too, even the ones from fuck middle of nowhere where you'd expect them to be inhospitable to outsiders. (When I mentioned this to my cousin he chalked it up to "southern hospitality", ehehe.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 10, 2014, 12:22:24 am
Just, wow. I though that kind of stupid could only exist in Texas :\

I often hear people in these parts say "dem yanks b rood", and oddly enough, the nicest people I've met whom I could easily talk to were up in the NH region when traveling with Kari. Granted, most assume the entirety of the northeastern region of the US is New York, so...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on July 10, 2014, 12:49:29 am
One thing you can count on, universally, is that humans are and will be unexpectably stupid.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 10, 2014, 01:57:29 pm
Quote from: PentiumMMX on July 10, 2014, 12:22:24 am
Just, wow. I though that kind of stupid could only exist in Texas :\


Quote from: NejinOniwa on July 10, 2014, 12:49:29 am
One thing you can count on, universally, is that humans are and will be unexpectably stupid.


True enough. In Texas though they'd probably just lock him up and call it a day. Or he'd get the crap beaten out of him by angry parents. I'm probably biased here but it seems like Virginia, while being moderate politically-speaking, has a lot of weird hangups about sexuality. If memory serves correct they have a high age of consent (18 I think) and no exemptions for people slightly over the age of consent who are dating minors (for example, some states allow people over the age of consent to date minors if they're within, say, 5 years of each other, so a 16 year old could legally date a 20 year old) ... as for why I originally learned this, well, mostly out of curiosity over whether my and Stew's relationship was legal back when I was still 17 and he was 19 (even if we weren't actually dating at the time, lulz). As well it was also one of the last states to get rid of its "anti-sodomy" (read: any intimate act that isn't good ol' fashioned, heterosexual, baby-making sex) law and had a governor and attorney general who supported the law. Said attorney general (hilariously nicknamed "The Cooch" for reasons unrelated to his vaginophobia) later ran for governor on a platform that included re-instating the ban on "sodomy". Thankfully he was defeated.

Ironically, the same group of loons passed legislature that would make a very invasive, completely-unnecessary medical procedure required before abortion, because for some reason sodomy is a-ok if it's being performed by a doctor.

Also, I believe there are still laws on the books making sexual acts between unmarried people illegal. Likewise, cohabitation (couples living together out of wedlock) is illegal. Noticeably LEGAL is marital rape (http://www.sodomy.org/laws/virginia/), though I have a hard time believing it would actually be enforced. (Considering the average non-sociopath typically frowns upon rape regardless of relationship status.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 10, 2014, 02:15:57 pm
._____.;

Remind me to never go to Virginia for any reason. Well, unless all I do is meet up with Stew
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 10, 2014, 03:22:57 pm
Hey now, Virginia is nice. The (right wing of) the government is what you have to watch out for ...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: stewartsage on July 10, 2014, 06:45:19 pm
Except they were voted out of said offices and also indicted for numerous graft related offenses.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 20, 2014, 04:04:52 pm
>Is browsing LE TUMBLR
>SJW blog
>About me section
>"im pansexual (except men) and im from the US"
>I'M PANSEXUAL (EXCEPT MEN)
>PANSEXUAL (EXCEPT MEN)
>PAN-
>EXCEPT-

Back in my dad pansexual meant attracted to all genders/sexes or simply not caring about gender/sex...

Tumblr's grasp on basic concepts like the definitions of words continues to slip quite badly.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on July 20, 2014, 04:40:52 pm
Indeed. Kinda reminds me of someone a friend of mine dated last summer; who claimed to be bisexual, but only seemed interested in guys for a one-night stand (Going the route of faking a relationship to get in their pants), while being so obsessed over attractive women that it makes Quagmire from Family Guy look subtle by comparison :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 20, 2014, 06:07:35 pm
That's complicated situation, tbh. I know a few bisexual/pansexual/panromantic people (myself included) who've dated only opposite-sex people and I suspect it's simply a matter of opportunity. For example if you're a bi/pan woman seeking a man, you have over 90% of the male population to hypothetically choose from (since >90% of men are heterosexual, and there are also bisexual men seeking women as well). Versus finding a female mate -- since less than 10% of women are lesbian or bisexual. Throw in other limiting factors (age range, appearance, compatible personality, whether or not your family will approve of you having a same-sex partner, whether or not you live in a place where you can seek out a same-sex partner, etc.) and the chance of finding (or staying with) a same-sex partner goes down even further. You really can't be sure about a person's sexuality just by judging their behavior.

That said, her treatment of women does sound a little overcompensating-ish. Maybe she acted that way to titillate (ew, that word) her partner? Some guys are obsessed with the idea of woman-on-woman action, even if they don't support LGBTA+ rights or give a shit about actual lesbian and bisexual women.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on July 21, 2014, 08:31:18 am
To be perfectly honest, I thought Pansexual meant that one was attracted to the personality of the indevidual, regardless of how they look.
At the same time I've called myself Hetro-pan for a while now. Am I wrong to think this or am I just straight.

At this point I think that the overly ingrained desire to catagorize things has deminished the actual point..
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 21, 2014, 12:28:37 pm
Pansexuality is sometimes described as an attraction to personality regardless of gender or sex. But not caring about gender or sex is a major component of it.  If you only like girls but don't care about looks that's more akin to being straight with no physical preferences, I suppose.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 22, 2014, 08:28:28 pm
Quote from: Bella on July 20, 2014, 04:04:52 pm
Back in my dad pansexual meant attracted to all genders/sexes or simply not caring about gender/sex...


might wanna choose your words carefully there, bells....

@regions: southern nh tends to mimic parts of canada in that (depending slightly on town size) people tend to be rather religious but otherwise very nice and polite and non-judgemental.
maine is........backwoods. like, marry your cousin and have your hunting dog as a lover type backwoods. (well, not THAT extreme, but it IS a bit banjo-solo in some parts. :0 )
mass varies depending on which side you go to (east or west) and from town to town, but the east tends to be quite normal (if a bit cold sometimes) and west tends to be rather hickish (though less aloof).
rhode island is very nice. as are the people.

@sexting: isn't HE technically a minor, too.....?
unless it's non-consensual,  minor-on-minor sex crimes tend not to be ACTUAL crimes in this country......(i mean, are we going to prosecute a 6 year old boy for touching a 6 year old girl's chest during a game of doctor in the name of groping or molestation??)

please excuse me while i proceed to vomit. (http://www.dailydot.com/crime/florida-girls-kill-rare-tortoise/)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 22, 2014, 10:12:49 pm
I ..... I had to stare at that for a solid minute before seeing what was wrong ... >_____>

Lulz, you and my dad share a similar opinion of Maine. He's always making hillbilly jokes about them, which is kind of annoying because he's only been to the coastal regions and the NH/ME border areas. <<

On a similar-yet-unrelated note, I get annoyed when Massachusettsans talk shit about NH. The way some of them talk about it, you'd think it's the most backwoods, backward, redneck place on earth -- pampered little shits wouldn't know backward if it bit them in the ass, though. >:/

Also, about that sexting case, the last I heard they weren't going to photograph his body, but the case was still in the court system. It's absolutely ridiculous if you ask me -- minors (or those slightly over) who engage in consensual sexual activity shouldn't get saddled with sex offender status for the rest of their lives just because somebody's parents object to their teen engaging in that kind of behavior. That's a parenting issue, not a reason to ruin a young person's life. ><
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 23, 2014, 03:01:40 pm
discipline your daughter, don't go after her boyfriend. after all, he started it.

also: http://www.dailydot.com/crime/florida-girls-kill-rare-tortoise/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
PLEASE EXCUSE ME WHILE I PROCEED TO VOMIT
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on July 23, 2014, 03:11:23 pm
Can I join? There's no way I can think of that kind of shit on my own, and it's deeply disturbing when I realize that those people exist?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on July 23, 2014, 03:29:32 pm
Sorry about missing that. I read about it last week on KYM and I still feel angry about it so I probably blocked it from my mind. >_>

Is it wrong to feel all warm and fuzzy inside whenever 4chan teams up to destroy the lives of some assholes? Because I really hope they fuck up shit for them. I mean, it's already a felony offense so shit's pretty effed up to begin with, but I hope they become even more ostracized over this.

Reminds me of the case of those people who drowned the puppies in the river a few years back. I believe 4chan managed to find out their identities, but I forget. Honestly, I'd look it up but I really don't want to be reminded of that story. I still feel sick and angry thinking about it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on July 23, 2014, 03:37:07 pm
Quote from: Bella on July 23, 2014, 03:29:32 pm
Is it wrong to feel all warm and fuzzy inside whenever 4chan teams up to destroy the lives of some assholes? Because I really hope they fuck up shit for them. I mean, it's already a felony offense so shit's pretty effed up to begin with, but I hope they become even more ostracized over this.


I don't think it's wrong at all. I feel the exact same way.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on July 23, 2014, 10:27:46 pm
oh, i love anon's ability to deal out some REAL social justice. i'd like to join them in Project Shell Shocked.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: AlLer on July 30, 2014, 03:41:46 am
Quote from: Simonorged on April 30, 2013, 01:59:38 pm
@Nej: So church is tantamount to drug use is it, Christianity is if anything else one good way to live your life, if you cut out all the attachments and just live by the good principles, you can lead a rather successful life, and for those who have actually felt a response, well all we should do is encourage and let live and occasionally drop a few friendly invitations. Yes it helps when you're feeling down but its also an encouragement to do the right thing. As with anything there are rules that we are encouraged to follow, most of which everyone already follows. [spoiler]My god has been good to me, that's all I can say.[/spoiler]

@pot: considering the Evils of some of the other options and what some of them can do, IE prescription meds as well as illegal substances and legal ones like alcohol and cigarettes sold by e cigarettes wholesaler (http://www.ecigfiend.com/), weed has fewer if not any of the medical repercussions, at the same time I don't really want anything to do with it as it causes lethargy and drains money, I'm not really interested. Do I care what other people do? Nope.

Even if we dont care of others still bad things must no persist in the society.. We need a good society to live..
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 21, 2014, 06:46:46 pm
so, bells and i were having a facebook debate (would have been a skype debate, but well, linux mint) about ones' personal beliefs on medication/taking drugs/surgery.

so, OSCers, what are your thoughts on Medication?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on August 21, 2014, 07:08:28 pm
To give the discussion a little more context, we were talking about personal pain tolerances and when we choose to employ medication to ease pain.

I might be an anomaly in that discomfort bothers me more than actual pain. When I had my wisdom teeth taken out I never touched the percocet I'd been prescribed because the idea of nausea, vomiting and other intestinal/stomach issues bothered me more than the actual discomfort at the surgery sites. Not to mention the possibility of being mentally out-of-it, there's a reason I've never indulged in (recreational) drugs or gotten drunk, and that's because the idea of not being myself is absolutely horrifying to me.

Then again, if I was ever in enough pain that I couldn't function without strong medication, I'd take it.

Until then I'll find other pain management techniques.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on August 21, 2014, 07:25:42 pm
Ok, now I understand what's going on.

As for me, it depends on what it is. For allergies, I take meds when I have a feeling I'll need them, but for other things, it's usually a last resort (I only take an ibuprofen if my headache is bad enough).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 21, 2014, 10:06:28 pm
the way i see it, is that if you're in pain, fix it. we invented pills for a reason (and early stuff, such as asprin, is based off naturally-occurring compounds that have been used for centuries to relieve pain/fever/etc), so why not use what modern science and technology has given us? most of the time, i will wait for pain to subside, but if it doesn't, i'm gonna pop some pills. this also applies to if my stomach is upset, if i have a cold, etc etc (i'd say allergies but apparently i don't have any....? ....huh). i'm respectful of holistic remedies....when they work. and when there's a time for them, such as using honey for a sore throat. but ignoring pain in the name of being "natural" or trying "alternative" cures (such as that one doctor who prescribed rubbing peanut oil into my scalp 3 times a day for a skin condition) bothers the shit out of me. i don't want any fucking lemon water, i don't want to talk about my fucking feelings, I WANT SOME FUCKING PILLS.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on August 22, 2014, 01:30:03 am
I'm beyond grateful that we have modern medicine and respect everyone's right to take advantage of it in a responsible and informed manner. I also support peoples' right to decline it if they so wish and it doesn't put others at harm.

Along with the reasons I listed before, I may be a little warier than most since there seems to be a family history of substance abuse (including prescription painkillers), I don't believe I'm prone to addiction but it's a road I'd rather stay far away from if I can avoid it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 22, 2014, 01:34:44 am
addiction is actually the reason i don't drink.

also, i agree with you on the flipside of things, it is VERY nice to be able to refuse medical treatment if we so wish.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on August 22, 2014, 06:33:33 am
In my case, I just avoid taking pills unless I really need it, in fear that my body becomes immune to the effects of said pills if I take it too regularly :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on August 22, 2014, 06:40:23 am
Many of my family members - all except my dad, actually - have in recent years gone long periods on heavy painkillers. My mom and brother both got serrated disks, and went many months - my brother almost two years - on morphine-derived substances. I can't remember what my sister took for her migraines before they started giving her botox injections (which seem to help somehow), but it was probably something on the same level.

All they seem to have gotten out of it is a running joke about being the family medicine locker. I greatly suspect that this is the norm for cases like this, or the heaviest painkillers just wouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on August 22, 2014, 08:02:50 am
Addiction in the case of alcholhol takes effect when there is an emotional pain or a need to mask emotion.
As someone who likes to drink, I can say that that is the case.
However I do not find myself addicted. I can easily go for long periods of time without a drink with not negative side effects though I know there are cases where there have been. fatigue, hangovers and in some cases, death from cold turkey.

As far as medicine goes, I do not like the idea of pills or medicine of any kind. More for personal reasons then anything else. I know some people need meds but growing up I was on them whether I needed them or not. The only thing they did was make me feel sadated and zombie like, so I believe (FOR MYSELF) that pills are a waste of time. That I'd rather go through the pain then not feel like me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 22, 2014, 12:27:20 pm
Quote from: Simonorged on August 22, 2014, 08:02:50 am
Addiction in the case of alcholhol takes effect when there is an emotional pain or a need to mask emotion.
As someone who likes to drink, I can say that that is the case.
However I do not find myself addicted. I can easily go for long periods of time without a drink with not negative side effects though I know there are cases where there have been. fatigue, hangovers and in some cases, death from cold turkey.


you misunderstand a bit how addiction works; while there are some that use alcohol to numb the pain of depression/etc, many others get addicted due to brain chemistry. addictive personalities, genetic predisposition, etc etc. alcoholism runs in my family, and while depression does too, the pair are not mutually exclusive.

also, you are entitled to your beliefs about meds and i respect that.

@nej: it seems that botox (like viagra) has transcended its original purpose for other needs. it's nice that there's still a use for it, especially since i imagine the addiction/side effect risk is lower than those of heavy-duty painkillers.

also, sheet, hope your fam's okay. are your mum and brother in therapy for it, or having something done surgically? i believe both my parents have some kind of spinal issue (i think they both have either herniated or impacted disks in addition to a host of other problems) and they're both going to physical therapy.

@pent: building a tolerance to painkillers only occurs if you take them on a regular basis, so unless you're in pain every day, taking pills shouldn't be much of a problem.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on August 23, 2014, 08:05:33 am
No, both of those are done and over with. My mom's been training and yoga-ing a lot more since to make sure she doesn't get any more problems, but the surgeries they had (both of these were a few years back) were quite enough to deal with things.

Based healthcare and whatnot.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 25, 2014, 06:14:06 pm
that's good to hear. back problems are a bitch, i know.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on August 25, 2014, 09:38:40 pm
I have a relative who got hooked on pain meds due to chronic spine issues (which actually got worse after surgery). He seems to have improved (years ago he predicted he'd need a wheelchair by now, but his mobility's actually gotten better and he no longer needs a cane, even) but I'm not sure whether or not he's still on medication.

Honestly though I hesitate to call it an addition if a person absolutely needs it just to be able to have mobility and some semblance of quality-of-life.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on August 26, 2014, 01:19:18 am
I believe that's what's called a dependence.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2014, 03:58:09 pm
dependence is the more proper term for it, but sometimes it's not a bad thing (as dependence usually is viewed as). some people literally cannot go through their day without some sort of medicated help.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: SleepyD on August 27, 2014, 04:12:00 pm
As for me, I tend to eschew taking medicine until i'm surely debilitated and unable to function. I kinda grew up like that. My parents are both in the medical field and are the same way. We have a lot of painkillers in stock, but I hardly ever use them. If I come down with a cold, I tend to just sleep a lot and drink a lot of water. I have a fairly high pain tolerance and I tend to get over colds and aches pretty quickly, so I think I'm okay without the painkillers.

They certainly have their place though, and taking it when the pain hinders normal function is okay with me. Whether that normal function means "able to work" or "able to stare at 2D prons on my screen" is up to the person taking it. As long as the person knows the limits of said drugs and keeps within those limits, then it's all fine with me. What you do with your meds is your business, not mine. I have a preference to not take drugs the instant I feel pain, and you might feel otherwise. But that's what it is, a preference.

And as a side note:
Can't say I'm one that drinks a lot. I don't use alcohol as a social lubricant or a emotional safety net. I'm closer to a foodie when it comes to alcohol, really. (which doesn't bode well for the wallet, so it's even more incentive to not drink a lot)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on August 27, 2014, 04:21:20 pm
hahaha, food is my anti-booze. i like that.

i tend to be a wimp when it comes to colds, but that's mostly because i did and still do get them SO FUCKING OFTEN it's like i'm constantly sick in the winter (in fact, i claim to be). as such, i keep a steady supply of Nyquil on hand (not as big a fan of Dayquil, though), since though it's been reviled by some, i swear by it when i'm sick. dries your nose right up and knocks you right out. pair that up with a can of campbell's and you have my level 1 sick treatment all winter (late october - early april) long.

my family tends to be the same way about pills. both my parents have arthritis/pain issues, though, so they both take aleve during the day. my pain is bad, but i've gotten in the habit of ignoring it since i was about 12 or so (not a good practice AT ALL), so i usually only take painkillers when i have a stubborn headache. usually, though, i try to self-medicate with caffeine beforehand to make sure that withdrawal isn't the cause.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on September 03, 2014, 11:14:03 am
http://www.businessinsider.com/originalguy-the-icloud-hacker-who-leaked-naked-celebrity-photos-2014-9#ixzz3CGYKTVwn (http://www.businessinsider.com/originalguy-the-icloud-hacker-who-leaked-naked-celebrity-photos-2014-9#ixzz3CGYKTVwn)

'OriginalGuy': The Full Story Of The iCloud Hacker Who Leaked Those Naked Celebrity Photos
There are articles  out now that state that a few of the images are of (at the time in the photos) underage girls.

And a Donation following for prostate cancer. Which in all seriousness is a bad joke.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2740481/How-Reddit-one-stop-shop-celebrity-iCloud-photos.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2740481/How-Reddit-one-stop-shop-celebrity-iCloud-photos.html)
Prostate cancer charity gives back Reddit donations after online forum offering advice on how to share hacked celebrity photos raises $6,000 'in honour of Jennifer Lawrence'


Discuss?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on September 03, 2014, 11:41:32 am
Sleepy, we same to have the same mindset vis-a-vis medicine and alcohol. I'd probably drink (occasionally) if I could actually afford nice booze, lol
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on September 11, 2014, 07:23:10 pm
figured this might interest someone.

http://www.thedp.com/article/2014/09/sadness-isnt-beautiful
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 24, 2014, 10:37:21 pm
Your Thoughts on Ferguson?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 25, 2014, 12:19:28 am
Everything considered, the whole incident is tragic (unarmed theft and a confrontation with a store clerk should NEVER end with somebody being killed, period) and I feel terrible for Mike Brown's family and the community as a whole. However if Mike Brown DID indeed attempt to grab Officer Wilson's firearm, as the forensic evidence suggests, I believe Wilson was justified in using deadly force to defend himself. (Police officers being killed with their own weapons isn't super common but it does happen - (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2011/officers-feloniously-killed/officers-feloniously-killed) 3 of the 72 officers killed in 2011 were killed with their own weapons, and 5 had their weapons stolen before they were murdered.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 25, 2014, 02:15:19 am
i find the whole incident revolting and think the officer should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. if you're going to represent it, live it bitch.

this is an incident in which i would adore seeing him strung up on a tree. poetic justice done where actual justice was not. despite any allegations against the victim, and any past crimes, real OR imagined, an unarmed, college-bound teenager is dead, and a cop is the cause. this not only could have been handled better, it could have been handled, PERIOD, rather than just letting a bullet sweep up the trash like usual. >>;

the police are corrupt and the supreme court disgusts me. i officially have no faith in this country sans the ability to panic over indirect, phantom threats and the ability to protect the status quo. if it weren't for the massive volume of cons here, i'd toy with the idea of moving to canada or europe.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on November 25, 2014, 09:11:53 am
Honestly, I do not care if a person is black or white, a man or woman, young or old, a college bound teen, a mother of five, a nun, a PhD student, a doctor, a gangster or what - if they attempt to pull a weapon from a cop they have to expect anything that comes next. Does that make it any less tragic? Of course not. The loss of a human life will always be a tragedy. But cops have every right to act on their self preservation instincts also. Barring a conspiracy (which I do not believe in as a general rule) Brown was not retreating when he was shot - it occured in the midst of a struggle.

That said, I do believe that we need to seriously examine police response with regards to PoC and have discussions about police militarization and brutality. Those are real problems and they're terrifying. However, it makes me cringe seeing this particular case compared to to the murders of Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, Renisha McBride and countless other unarmed African Americans who have been attacked or killed for simply going about their daily lives.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 25, 2014, 11:01:20 am
i'm agreeing wholeheartedly on your second point. i think part of the solution will be to intergrate the police forces. you have 10 cops total. 2 can be white, 2 black, 2 hispanic, 2 asian, and 2 native american if they're in the area. it sounds a little kum-by-yah and corny but it's a decent solution (or at least a start) to the rampant racism and racial profiling present in our justice system.

as for the first part, plenty of cops in Europe don't carry guns, and they seem to do just fine. maybe taking their example may help a bit....?
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 25, 2014, 11:13:56 pm
Indeed; that idea of having a more diverse group of cops seems like a good idea to me
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 25, 2014, 11:17:28 pm
it's a start, at least. the war on drugs isn't helping either.

on an unrelated note, this also seems relevant to peoples' interests:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/escape-duggarville-good-christian-wife/#.VHRKLdhw5sY.facebook
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on November 26, 2014, 02:10:56 am
Just...wow. That sounds like a more extreme version of what I went through; it wasn't to that extent, thankfully, but it was still very rough, with plenty of damage due to the effects of the environment I grew up in (Homeschooled, only contact with the outside world was at church, was punished for attempting to dress like a girl, and was looked down upon for being "different" from the other boys my age). To be honest, if it wasn't for the internet, I may have never woken up to the realities of my situation and ultimately discovered who I really am.

Now, I'm in a different but still very harsh environment; where I have to lie to protect myself, as actually stating the truth of the matter would likely end very badly for me.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: svx on November 26, 2014, 04:18:55 am
Wow, I've got a lot to catch up on! Full disclaimer: just my opinions, I'm always willing to change them 'cuz I'm awesome, I never mean any offense to anyone.

@Medicine topic:  I'm 100% certified clinically depressed, but I refuse to take meds for it. My family generally runs to the medicine cabinet if they even so much as cough (and I wish it was an exaggeration!) but I try my best to avoid taking medicine when it isn't necessary. I don't trust flu shots because every I've ever had one, I've gotten sick, and every time I haven't had one, I've come out just fine. Likewise, depression meds just make me feel like a zombie and I can't think, my reaction time goes way down, etc, etc. I just can't trust medication at this point because through trial-and-error, I've decided it hurts me more than helps me.

@Alcohol topic:  I love booze! I usually know when I've "had enough" though so I don't typically overdo it. Even when I do, I'm one of those "happy drunks" that rather than fighting/getting emotional/etc, I just come up with jokes and stuff. My mantra in life is to be what I consider to be "a good person". That said, my dad's side of the family seems to be filled with alcoholics. I don't like dealing with them. I don't like people that drink when they can't "handle their liquor" - for instance, when they say the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over, slurring their speech and being just... stupid...  I don't do that when I get drunk. I laugh and make jokes and I've never once felt like I've lost control of myself. Alcohol just affects people differently, I guess. So I love booze, but I don't like people who let the booze rule them.

@Ferguson topic:  I intentionally tried not to keep up on it at all, even though I live in Missouri! I'm pretty biased. I've been harassed by police in the past and I recognize that I absolutely, seriously do not like police, no matter what. That aside, I think the whole situation was handled stupidly, especially with the verdict being released at night and all that talk about "we have health facilities prepared" etc. Just stupid. To quote my mom, "the older I get, the less tolerance I have for stupidity." I'll just leave it at that, because I wouldn't want to be on a jury for this. Either way, I'm sad anytime someone dies, no matter who they are. We're all just humans; everyone has their own hopes and dreams and goals and things they love, so it's sad, but the same thing as Ferguson happens every day, just not as loudly. So it's sad.

@Duggarville topic:  I didn't read all of Choco's links, but I read some of it and Pent's comment so I hope I'm on the right track here! Probably way off, but... As far as religion goes, I'm happy for anyone who believes in something, no matter what it is. I'm annoyed by people who zealously state their deeply personal beliefs as if it's "necessary" for people to believe in them along with them. I went to a Christian school when I was younger and I give them credit for teaching me a lot of things, but I wasn't really indoctrinated properly I guess. I wound up becoming someone with my own beliefs fundamentally different from what most religions teach. In fact the only people I've ever heard about that entirely share my beliefs (without any extras + exceptions) are people who've had near-death-experiences. My religion is basically tolerating people, and that "love" is the only thing that matters. That's all it is.

As far as the Duggarville story goes, I don't like it when people are taken advantage of, abused, etc, especially in the name of religion. Some people take religion too far and make it the center of their lives, and once they do it, (imo) they sometimes wind up "wanting more" out of it so they certainly find ways to "fill in the cracks" to make up ways to explain and deal with every situation in life. It sounds fine, but then you might realize that "filling in the cracks" entails altering the way they interact with people, tolerate people, and deal with people. If they filled in the cracks with supremely extreme ideals, then they might become dangerous to be around.

From what I read (and again I didn't read the whole article), it seems like the cracks were filled in completely with dangerous ideals in this case. Hope I'm not entirely off topic on this one, but for some reason I just couldn't make it through the article... :p
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on November 27, 2014, 01:46:03 pm
eh, it was a pretty long article. i actually took a break in the middle (but that was to go to the ER), so i get what you're saying.

also, i agree on Ferguson. this is much more common than people would like to think, and are shocked to learn. i think part of ending the problem is drawing attention to ALL cases of police brutality and institutionalized racism, rather than just the super-extreme/super-public ones. :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Simonorged on November 29, 2014, 01:46:15 am
@Fergison: How many of you watched the verdict?
the creep didn't need to die, the cop should have been carrying a tazer.
look at the evidence and don't listen to angry emotion filled rumors
and for fucks sakes think for yourselves

There is a war against cops, people hate cops.
that hate turns into reckless abandonment on the park of every rebel with an anger issue to attack and disrespect police officers who are sworn to protect them.
Sorry but no, if someone is going to try and beat me over the head and try to steal a lethal weapon from me then I am going to definitely pop that mother fucker in the head with it.

the FACTS are this, young male goes into a convenience store and steals a pack of cigars, that part was caught on tape, this so called innocent going as far as to push the teller around. it was either the teller or a customer called the police.
From there three police vehicles came and blocked the street, blocking both directions of traffic as well.
brown attacked the police officer mentioned and punched him in the face, images of the bruises are common knowledge and available to the public, 12 shots were fired, but only four were counted for.

one grazing against his thumb (Close range)
one grazing the top of his head(Close Range)
one that was found lodged in the door(I think)
and one directly into the head. (again close range)

several of the 'witnesses' were false, following the principle of childish rumors, most people just repeating what they heard. playing a big old game of telephone.

So in this case, I don't blame the cop.

I blame the selfish gimme attitude of 'I'm always right'

the police officer acted in self defense and is now being punished for staying alive.

Way to go America for making a monster out of a protector and a hero out of a thug... again.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 05, 2015, 09:57:03 pm
Today, some fine Tumblr folks managed to harass a comic artist into quitting and pulling her webcomic off the internet (http://jeneelestrange.tumblr.com/post/112797308404/so-did-you-hear-today-about-the-webcomic-mahou) because it was set in Japan and she's not Japanese. I didn't follow this comic but it looked quite beautiful (http://36.media.tumblr.com/18fed7cd3d7b3b157fb2ee741e343240/tumblr_n82ls4MsMl1qbwqwto1_1280.png) and as though the artist put a lot of love into it (http://mahou.strangestarcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/E1Act1_0111.png). She'd apparently lived in Japan for a time and was striving to make the comic inclusive and free of any stereotypes or fetishism. Still, it wasn't enough for the people who attacked her.

>be tumblr
>complain that white people aren't writing enough PoC characters
>be tumblr
>complain that white people are writing PoC characters
??????

ETA: Oh fuck, it was by the author of Princess Princess (http://princessprincess.smackjeeves.com/comics/1558057/page-zero/), one of the cutest little webcomics I've ever seen. I thought the art style was familiar but i couldn't place it...

Now I'm fuckin' pissed. Both at the people who attacked her AND the artist for caving into their harassment. These people shouldn't be given the time of day.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 05, 2015, 10:05:20 pm
AUGH NO NO NO PRINCESS PRINCESS' ARTIST NEEDS TO BE MADE A PRINCESS

WHY FUCKING TUMBLR WHY
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 05, 2015, 10:07:09 pm
>Tumblr
There's your problem :\

But, yeah; it's sad that someone puts a lot of love into a project only for some jerk to stomp on it, not because of the quality of the project, but based on the skin color, sexual orientation, or gender identity of the person writing it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on March 05, 2015, 10:12:58 pm
This is why Tumblr can't have nice things.

"Oh noes! Someone whose native language isn't Japanese screwed up on Japanese! DRIVE THE FIEND AWAY FROM HERE!"

With that kind of logic, we should drive away all people whose native language isn't English who fuck up with English. Obviously, we wouldn't do that.

Representation is a huge part of the reason why my headcanon is that the Windows-tans are Japanese, and no one can convince me otherwise. The other reason is that some characters smell of cultural appropriation if they aren't Japanese.

I don't mind being corrected for a legitimate mistake by an actual person of the marginalized group, considering that I have fucked up when writing characters of marginalized groups that I actually belong to. You learn from mistakes. That is how all humans learn, is it not?

Quote from: PentiumMMX on March 05, 2015, 10:07:09 pm
>Tumblr
There's your problem :\


I loled.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 05, 2015, 10:17:29 pm
I'll never be able to understand it, people on tumblr beg for diversity in the media (including asking white people to include more racial diversity in their works) but when a popular webcomic artist decides to make a piece cast mostly with Japanese folks it suddenly becomes racism.

I don't think they're satisfied with representation, they just want to be the constant victim and harass anyone with whom they don't identify 100%.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on March 05, 2015, 10:31:28 pm
Quote from: Bella on March 05, 2015, 10:17:29 pm
I'll never be able to understand it, people on tumblr beg for diversity in the media ... but when a popular webcomic artist decides to make a piece cast mostly with Japanese folks it suddenly becomes racism.


This seems to be a recurring problem. I know I've seen you talk about how feminists both want women in STEM fields, but at the same time they don't because "too many men."

And in both cases, it is stupid as hell.

Also, does that mean any OS-tan fanfic starring Windows-tans that I write is automatically racist? To those people who harassed her, probably.

Quote from: Bella on March 05, 2015, 10:17:29 pm
(including asking white people to include more racial diversity in their works)


I am plenty happy to comply with this request. It's the least I could do.

Quote from: Bella on March 05, 2015, 10:17:29 pm
I don't think they're satisfied with representation, they just want to be the constant victim and harass anyone with whom they don't identify 100%.


This kind of bullshit is the reason why I try to be, at the very least, a decent SJW. I try not to do that kind of thing, because no matter what,

Hell, I purposefully identify with controversial terms to attempt to improve their connotation. I'm a proud feminist, and a proud SJW. After all, at the end of the day, those words do describe me, and their scary connotations cannot convince me otherwise.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 06, 2015, 11:13:04 am
there's gonna be hell to pay if Ace's High gets popular. xD

i posted an ask to their tumblr saying that there are people out there who love their stuff and to say "fuck the critics". hope the little nugget of support at least makes them smile. ;^;

and it looks like something i would have LOVED reading, too....
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 06, 2015, 11:43:18 am
@Duko: Indeed on using a term in spite of negative connotations. I mean, the symbols for both major US political parties spawned from people making fun of them, but rather than try to downplay it, they instead fully embraced it and spun it around to be positive -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 06, 2015, 01:38:57 pm
a bit like anime people trying to reclaim mostly negative terms such as "otaku" and "fujoshi". -w-;

oh wait, i'm white, i shouldn't be using asian terms.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 06, 2015, 02:25:07 pm
Indeed; we are the whitest of whiteness. Excuse me while I delete the rap songs I have and eat a mayo sandwich </sarcasm>
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Goujer on March 07, 2015, 01:36:24 am
My university can no longer include race in a suspect description unless they can give enough details along with it to identify someone. This mostly came from complaints that the only description for almost all crime reports was that the suspects were African American. Ever since the Ferguison stuff a lot of people on my campus are keeping tension high with the police, but you can tell that the police just want to make people feel safe, even from the police. The police even got rid of some automatic rifles they had locked up in case of school shootings because people were protesting that the police shouldn't have such dangerous weapons at they're disposal. But honestly if a guy comes with a shot gun or hunting rifle and starts firing, I'd feel better if the police had an an automatic insteed of a pistol or tazer.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2015, 11:42:47 am
i think the answer to the police problems is to include bias screening with the psych evals, and do a lot more of them. more stress-testing might be useful as well, to make sure the people present are able to do the job when needed---but ONLY when needed (NOT on homeless people, NOT on people who mouth off to the officers, NOT on psychotic folks). this scene sums up what i mean by "doing the job". (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1I7rGsr2KE)

also, do you live in the south? feel free not to answer, and i don't mean to pry, but i'm curious. i live in new england, about half an hour from boston. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Goujer on March 07, 2015, 12:01:09 pm
I live in the cold white tundra known as Minnesota. Oh yeah der I be attendin thee ole U of M up eer.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2015, 12:02:56 pm
...Have you seen the big ball of twine?
(I'm sorry, I had to ask. Love that Weird Al song -w-; )
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2015, 12:13:20 pm
hahahaha, whenever i sign up for something that asks for my address and i'm not comfortable with it, i give a fake name and address in Minnapolis. xD

i'm in NH, and the bulk of my immediate family (cousins and whatnot) on my mum's side live here or in MA. after that, all my other family is in either Canada or Europe (sans one of my mum's cousins who lives in Vegas). -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 07, 2015, 12:16:50 pm
Quote from: Legojer on March 07, 2015, 12:01:09 pm
I live in the cold white tundra known as Minnesota. Oh yeah der I be attendin thee ole U of M up eer.


Hah, I KNEW it. I remember hearing U of M was going to do away with racial descriptions in suspect reports ... I think it's completely ridiculous since it's an important identifying feature. Politics shouldn't be a part of it.

With regards to labels: honestly I'm trying to distance myself from a lot of them. I hold specific beliefs in common with liberal feminists, radical feminists, queer theorists, gender-egalitarians, political/social progressives, political/social conservatives, libertarians, socialists, transhumanists, materialists (in the philosophical sense), religious progressives and radical atheists among many, many other schools of political, social, philosophical and spiritual schools of thought without feeling although I fit into any of those groups. 

Personally, I reject gender descriptions for myself because I think the whole concept has been bastardized as of late (I'm looking at you, demi-hydrogender girl-kins). My sexuality is an inextricable mess and while I call myself "asexual" because it's the closest approximation of what I am that's not totally accurate either. Half of the time I'm envious of people with religious and spiritual beliefs and other times I think those beliefs should be wiped from the face of human society. I elevate knowledge and skill above all else and strive to get to a point where I KNOW more than I believe, since beliefs aren't always or even often truths and knowledge at least attempts to separate feelings from fact.

I am pro-social justice but my social justice stands for eliminating homelessness and hunger, ensuring people can make living wages, curbing the growth of destructive corporations, making sure people aren't denied their reproductive rights, eliminating forced prostitution and sexual slavery, ending female genital mutilation, punishing countries that refuse to take care of the environment, ending religious persecution and the persecution of LGBT people, so on and so forth. My social justice doesn't involve middle-class teenagers' rights to identify as octogender pyrofoxkins and have people respect their kawaii "bun/buns/bunself >^.^<" pronouns or men taking up too much legroom on the subway or people feeling offended by whites speaking "ethnic" languages or eating "ethnic" food or getting upset because people have certain gender/sex preferences in partners.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Goujer on March 07, 2015, 12:48:25 pm
I have not seen the twine ball but I have always wanted to.
Also the police can use race but only if it can actually help identify someone. The description he was Mexican or Ginger is far to broad to narrow it down to a single person. I think it was giving off a bad stigma because every suspect description I've read was "African American" except for a white chick with a mohawk and tattoos, but she also had help from some African Americans. For what ever reason race seems to be about the only thing the victims can say about their attackers.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 07, 2015, 01:07:50 pm
That's reasonable. Honestly if all you have to go on is "white woman" or "black man" you aren't going to catch a suspect anyway.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2015, 02:27:11 pm
@Bella: I suppose in some regards I'm similar in some regards, although I generally have found demisexual is an accurate description of me, since I usually don't feel any sort of sexual attraction to a person unless I know them well; as for the beliefs, I suppose I pick and pull things from varying mindsets and religions as well, rather than just sticking solely to one belief system. As for social justice, while I do feel there are some injustices that need to be addressed (Gender roles being a major one for me), I tend to avoid the SJW side of Tumblr due to the stupidity, since you can only see so many people who are sparkle-sparkle jambalayasexual trainkins that prefer "nyan/nyan/nyanself" pronouns complain about oppression or lack of representation in fictional mediums before you just want to turn around and run the other way.
Don't even get me started on the radfem sector of that side, as that sector so toxic it'll make any sane person feel like shit
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2015, 04:55:13 pm
wouldn't that be demisexual, then? Pans are attracted to all genders without any specific time requirement. :0

@labels: i don't mind identifying under a select few labels, mostly relating to political afflilation, religion, or nature of interest (i'm a gothic, nerdy, democratic anarchist who's a pagan). these are all facts and have no basis in ambiguity and don't need to be explained. i also identify as feminist, which i keep as simple and broad as possible rather than narrowing it down; it's too much effort to get specific just to make a nitpicker feel better. :\

@sjw: i stay off tumblr both as a rule (too much of a timesink that i can barely figure out) and because i forget i have an account. though i see the more radical parts of it a bit like reading the comments: (http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/02/dont-read-the-comments/) don't do it. and it irks me enough that "zim" has become a semi-accepted pronoun, soooo......
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 07, 2015, 04:57:17 pm
...yeah; Demisexual. IDK what I was thinking of ^^;;;;;
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2015, 05:02:46 pm
eh, there are so many terms these days that it can be hard to keep them straight. :0

get it
STRAIGHT

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 08, 2015, 01:01:30 pm
Quote from: Chocofreak13 on March 07, 2015, 04:55:13 pm
wouldn't that be demisexual, then? Pans are attracted to all genders without any specific time requirement. :0


Tbh, my own personal interpretation of "pan" (romantic or sexual) involves being gender-blind, that is to say, if you have the right personality traits I wouldn't care about gender identity or physical sex. Though the fact there are multiple definitions of pansexuality, asexuality, bisexuality and practically anything else that isn't straight or gay (usually) gives me all the more reason to distance myself from those labels.

Honestly, my own sexuality is practically spot-on to definition of demisexual but I'm not a fan of the label. I have nothing against people who identify as such, but I personally tend to think of sexuality as what genders you are or aren't attracted to rather than under what circumstances. Because I'm not sexually/romantically attracted to any particular gender(s) (while still remaining open to the possibility of falling for a person of any gender) I think of myself as asexual.

Tumblr-style SJWs are just so, so toxic. Since I'm a masochist I have this horrible addiction to browse blogs exposing bad behavior among them and it's some of the most vile stuff I've had the displeasure of reading. Like this lovely blogger who suggests the way to win in arguments with trans men is to trigger their body dysphoria (http://transitionrambling.tumblr.com/post/106530898137/portablemiah-destroyalltruscum-if-a-truscum). Or this other blogger who suggests trans men are weak, cowardly and boring (http://lzbn.tumblr.com/post/112615912105). They're also fond of pulling "historical facts" out their asses (http://i.imgur.com/eJXNguj.jpg), and show literally no regard for statistical evidence (http://i.imgur.com/44jWdQw.jpg), which makes me angry and twitchy as a fan of both history and science. They route for PoC inclusion in certain fields, unless it's the wrong "type" of PoC (https://medium.com/message/the-tech-diversity-story-thats-not-being-told-9a36fb40530f). They resort to bizarre ad-hominem attacks (http://imgur.com/r/TumblrInAction/yALTitR) and kindergarten-level name-calling (http://imgur.com/r/TumblrInAction/6ZTub5G).

They claim to want to advance LGBTQ rights while perpetuating the myth (http://i.imgur.com/r6jNtx7.jpg) that being gay, trans, etc. is a choice (http://i.imgur.com/VTVE56V.png), and fetishizing and dehumanizing (http://i.imgur.com/lB02Fug.png) the very people they claim to want to help. Some of them also have no problem spewing rape-trivializing (http://i.imgur.com/GJAu6Us.jpg) and misogynistic (http://i.imgur.com/OrF6V0Z.png) rhetoric when they're confronted with people who don't share their particular points of view, all the while ignoring real social justice issues (http://i.imgur.com/dm3hTGB.jpg).

I don't have a smart commentary on it or anything insightful to say. It's just so sickening and bizarre.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on March 08, 2015, 01:49:35 pm
I hate hate hate when people say that being queer is a choice.

That literally goes against everything the LGBTQ+ movement stands for.

Like, try as I might, I won't ever want to have sex with anyone. Therefore, I am asexual. While I am not disgusted with fictional sex in the slightest (at worst, finding it pointless), I am incredibly sex-repulsed IRL.

Hell, my gender is a mess because of my morals. I identify as a girl because I personally feel that if I identify with a non-binary gender, I am "choosing" my gender, and going against my morals severely. I never really feel physical dysphoria, but I do feel what could be described as mental dysphoria, and find myself questioning my gender often.

I really do not care what genders other people identify as, because I understand the questioning of gender and how hard it is. I will respect it without question, with exception given to blatant trolls.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 08, 2015, 05:19:23 pm
@Kari: I LOL'd at the pun -w-;

@Bella: There's one blog I had to unfollow on Tumblr, just because the owner of it suddenly began to flood it with that sort of BS. I subscribed for the funny Rooster Teeth GIFs they originally posted, not to see endless "death to all whites \ men \ cis \ etc." posts >_>;;

@Duko: Indeed; I hate that notion that being anything other than cisgendered and heterosexual is a choice. I mean, generally it's not something you can decide in the same way as deciding between buying strawberries or grapes at the store, but is instead something one discovers about themselves; some discovering it more quickly than others.

It took me a while to come to terms with my own identity; given I was raised in an environment where being physically male but enjoying wearing traditionally feminine clothing is seen as "wrong", so I spent years of my life feeling like there was something "wrong" with me, until in early-to-mid 2011, when I finally found people who supported me (see: Kari, Bella, others on this site), allowing me to come to terms with my identity and feel more comfortable about myself (I still have my moments, given I'm not in the healthiest environment to fully explore myself, but knowing I have close friends whom will support me regardless of the outcome is comforting).
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 09, 2015, 01:36:03 pm
i think the easiest way to come to terms with something like that might be to declare yourself agender. i suppose i'm a chick, but i don't give it much thought other than "huh, guess i got tits". the concept of having children seems romanticized to me and i like the idea of naming them and raising them and all that nice stuff, but the actual mechanics of it and the anatomy angle just squiggs me the fuck out. i used to dread seeing the doctor until i realized that my doctor seemed to be chill with my ignoring the bits and pieces i was given. when it comes to doing [censored] or anything like [censored] it's as if a portion of my brain shuts off, allowing me to be uninhibited, but for the most part the mere thought of what comes with being female disturbs me.

combine that with almost a lack of awareness of what are "women things" and what are "men things" and you have someone who reeeeally doesn't care about their gender. hence, agender. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 09, 2015, 01:56:11 pm
I personally just settled for genderqueer; it's more general and to-the-point -w-
(Sometimes I think maybe I'm trans, but I'm honestly not in a safe enough environment to explore the possibility right now, although I will say I do feel more confident in my appearance thanks to my fake boobs)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 09, 2015, 02:00:07 pm
you may be trans. but it's something better figured out when you get here, amongst trans people. they might be able to help you figure it out. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 09, 2015, 02:35:40 pm
From what I can gather the majority of people aren't completely comfortable with their body, genitals and secondary sexual characteristics included. I mean, I've never heard a woman get pumped up over menstruation or childbirth or going to the gyno, because those things are fucking awful (especially childbirth -- maybe just a fucking nuisance in the case of menstruation or gynos) and you'd have to be either deep into second-wave, new-age, female body-mysticism, a sadist or slightly brain damaged to WANT to experience any of those things. It's not as severe or universal, but I've also heard a lot of busty women express annoyance at the work large breasts entail. From dudes I've heard irritation over facial hair/hair removal and having to deal with dangly bits that get in the way of walking and sitting and overheating when it's hot out. I'd say that's a statically-average human experience.

From what I've gathered, being trans (I'm using this as a catch-all here: either trans with intent of SRS, non-op trans, or nonbinary/genderqueer) comes into play when a person experiences body dysphoria or the need to be pass as a member of the opposite/no/other gender. I've heard trans people write about feeling although they can't look at their body in a mirror or think about the fact they have the wrong "parts" for their body because they legitimately feel as though they should have boobs/vagina/penis/a flat chest/no sexual characteristics and having the wrong parts is agonizing. There are non-op trans people too, but even they generally want to pass for their gender -- i.e. they may want to keep the genitals they were born with, but they want to be treated as the gender they identify with. From what I've read, I'd say both are valid expressions of trans identities.

Then there are people who outright reject traditional gender classifications for social reasons, not due to body dysphoria or a need to socially "pass" as something other than their DSAB. I'd argue the majority of tumblry types who claim to be xyzgender and use xy/xyz/xyzself pronouns fall into this category. Even though they like to protest that they're REAL TRANS, I'd argue they actually fall into the range of genderfuck/gender-bending, which is a legitimate thing and may have some overlap with transgender, but isn't the same thing. In fact it's insulting to equate the two, since one involves a conscious decision and the other stems from biological causes.

Then there are people who outright reject the idea of gender being a thing -- which I think is stupid on a society-wide level, but I have adopted for myself. (My gender isn't relevant, I have a DFAB body and I'm okay with it.)
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 09, 2015, 05:22:10 pm
Interesting. In my case, I sometimes think of what I have "down there" as resembling a genetic mutation :\
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 09, 2015, 05:26:10 pm
you could very well be trans, then. :0

@bells: i say agender for myself because i've thought (on multiple occasions) that being smooth as a GI Joe would be convenient. :0
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: winduko on March 09, 2015, 08:57:09 pm
mmmm

I am DFAB, but I naturally grow facial hair. I would love to have my own beard, but my parents don't want their daughter to have a beard. I don't want to change my body, but my parents do want me to change my body.

I want my body to express itself naturally, but I feel forced into a female box because I am DFAB. Not sure if that is body dysphoria, since that is how my body naturally is, but now that I think about it, it could be, as my parents are forcing it to go another way.

Also, I am prone to forgetting that my genitalia even exist. I have legitimately forgotten that I am on my period.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on March 09, 2015, 10:54:22 pm
Quote from: Bella on March 09, 2015, 02:35:40 pm
There are non-op trans people too, but even they generally want to pass for their gender -- i.e. they may want to keep the genitals they were born with, but they want to be treated as the gender they identify with.


I suppose now is as good a time as ever to say that I generally prefer to be regarded as and identify as the female gender when possible.

Now that that awkwardness is out of the way... thank you.

I-I don't want to make a big fuss, baka, I just thought I would finally say it.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 10, 2015, 01:29:46 am
@Kriz: So...does that make us sisters? :3
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Krizonar on March 10, 2015, 02:04:37 am
Quote from: PentiumMMX on March 10, 2015, 01:29:46 am
@Kriz: So...does that make us sisters? :3

I don't believe we are related, though. (that would be a longshot!)

I feel so awkward now after saying this about myself, as I don't particularly like revealing personal information. I'll just go make cookies or something. Sorry to intrude in the topic.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Penti-chan on March 10, 2015, 02:54:04 am
@Kriz: It's alright; I mean, I used to be the same way
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 10, 2015, 03:03:11 am
@kriz: *brofist*
@kodomo: idk if it can be considered body dysphoria given the choice is thrust upon you. but who knows. also when you go off to college you can sport an awesome beard. -w-
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 29, 2015, 10:41:30 am
WW3 AND PROXY CONFLICTS

Current major fronts: Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Yemen
Current major developments: Russian nuclear missile forces on the move (http://asia.rbth.com/news/2015/03/26/defense_ministry_iskander-m_missiles_moved_from_orenburg_to_sverdlovsk_r_44768.html); Egyptian warships in Gulf of Aden fire at Iranian navy (http://defence-blog.com/?p=4448); US military hardware has been received by Ukraine (http://defence-blog.com/?p=4404)
Somewhere, Khorne cultists are celebrating.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Chocofreak13 on March 29, 2015, 11:52:24 am
europe is scary.

also I THOUGHT YOU WERE DEAD

REPORT TO TOPICLESS FOR LIFE UPDATES NOW MASHTUR
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 29, 2015, 12:39:44 pm
Not as scary as the Middle-east, in terms of how likely you are to die at the whim of someone's plot to destabilize your country. And I wouldn't touch the US with a very long stick right now, with the amount of spooky shit going on.

But in all fairness, it doesn't matter where in the world you are. The world as a whole is more terrifying than it ever has been, and only part of that is because of the ever-present threat of world powers bombing our species to oblivion.
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: Bella on March 29, 2015, 01:14:19 pm
There's a guy in my database class who likes to go on long political rants about how Cold War II is upon us, most of the time I think he's full of it but sometimes I wonder...
Title: Re: Hot Button Topics (religion, potitics, sports)
Post by: NejinOniwa on March 29, 2015, 01:25:50 pm
If he offers to give you a basic rundown of what's going on in the various fronts - and on high level government level in various countries, as well - I'd urge you to listen to him. Ignorance is like a drug - you're happy, happy, happy until the day the stuff you didn't know kills you dead, or worse.

On that topi