I am wondering something: Is Linux-tan the kernel (not likely since she has the KDE-gears on the helmet)? Is she any unspecified distro (which would make her and the distro-tans mutually exclusive on pictures, but I saw already Linspire-tan and Linux-tan on one picture)? Is she a kind of average between the different distros? What do you think?
I think the usual linux-tan, as we represent it, is actually to be looked as any windows-tan for its design. What i mean is, at the time Linux-tan drawing was made, gnome and any other desktop than KDE weren't really serious alternatives. Linux was seen either with KDE, either without graphical desktop. This may explain the KDE helm for any pictures of linux-tans so far.
Maybe it's time to redesign the whole linux family, since times have changed and anyway nobody (or not much ppl) care about linuxes-tans. :D
The problem is, we'd have to consider either the kernel (or distro, to make it easier) and graphical desktops apart... that would be painful to do...
In short, i think the avatar you have (the bearded pinguin) represents the GNU spirit (horns + beard) with classic KDE (was classic in these times) and no specific distro. What i don't know about this, is the spear. Maybe the fight against M$ ?
On non juzo-kun Linux-tans, you sometimes see the GNOME-foot on the dress.
BTW: before KDE, fvwm was the big thing (when I started the question was stable fvwm or buggy KDE) also, Linux-tan has the USB-logo, which at that time was not really the next big thing.
It's just me or the Linux distro-tans are really too similar to each other? They don't have as many differences as the Windows or other OS-tans...
WOW!!!!!!!!!! @v@
Kami-Tux, it's a miracle!!! ^v^
You got Fedora-dono to stop over here and talk about Linux-tan!! ^-^
See? If only you hadn't disappeared, not only would you have had your Unix-sama by now...
http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/displayimage.php?album=74&pos=5[/list]
...but you could've saved me weeks upon weeks of arm-twisting. `v'
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I'm jealous.... Ã,¬.Ã,¬
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In any case, methinks the problem with the original Linux-tan is the same problem that affects the original Futaba Mac-tan. Everyone was too focused on Windows-tans, and few people there gave a crap about other OSes -- but since Linux and Mac were relatively popular, they decided to create simple "catch-all" characters to cover every aspect of Macintosh and Linux, regardless of the hundreds of versions and distributions that exist. Naturally, as the OS-tan fame spread, Mac users, Linux users and artistic pigs began creating OS-tans of specific releases (e.g., Juzo-kun created 10 different distros-tans, Aurora created a Mac-tan for every major system release since System 1). So the problem then is that their catch-all status loses relevance,... AND YET they CANNOT be gotten rid of because they're both already too embedded in the OS-tan culture. -v-
So at this point, all we can do really is act like "Trekkies" and simply rethink some details to cover up some thoughtless plothole or design paradox.... Ã,¬vÃ,¬
Because "Linux" is technically an amorphous concept, since all the distros are technically "Linux", it helps me in my storytelling that I think of that Linux-tan (the one I drew) as the original OS [kernel, whatever] built by Torvalds-san -- the one based on Minix. Before distros began to be released, there had to be one single thing called "Linux" in order for the whole phenomenon to start -- and that thing is represented by Linux-tan.
Naturally, neither KDE nor Gnome nor the tools on her spear existed in 1991, but if you think of Linux-tan as the same OS/Kernel but simply growing over the course of the years (currently at age 2.6.20), then it's only natural to believe that she simply picked up new clothes and tools over the years. Perhaps when creating a picture of Linux-tan in the past, she would look like a young purple-haired girl with few possessions, save for whatever Minix-sensei could provide her with.
I'm using the same premise to create Unix-sama -- even though in our modern-day there is no such thing as simply the "Unix" OS (because UNIX can refer to countless non-free distributions), there was at some point in the late 1960's a thing called UNIX (formerly UNICS), created at Bell Labs. It's been decades since theoriginal Bell Labs UNIX has been used in anything relevant, and even some of the early System Releases are available free for hobbyists. But because she's the original and the oldest OS-tan of her lineage, she will have something of a matriarch status amongst the UNIX descendants. Perhaps something like a don of an old mafia: physically weaker compared to her children/grandchildren, but still very influential.
Likewise, I've always view Linux-tan in the same light, making her something of a leader among the Distros-tans. Not a leader in the strict UNIX sense, because the Linux world is too varied and decentralized too conform to any power hierarchy. But more a leader in the natural sense of a strong, revolutionary person that inspires followers and legends. Perhaps like a Che Guevera of the OS world. -v-'
In any case, I'll let y'all read that for now. If you're interested in discussing this more, I can talk about her clothing next. -.-
Quote from: "Kami-Tux"On non juzo-kun Linux-tans, you sometimes see the GNOME-foot on the dress.
BTW: before KDE, fvwm was the big thing (when I started the question was stable fvwm or buggy KDE) also, Linux-tan has the USB-logo, which at that time was not really the next big thing.
That's very true about fvwm, but i talked about kde as a "popular" desktop. Most of time, ppl just considerated fvwm as a console enhancement rather than a real fully-featured graphical desktop, like kde.
Quote
Kami-Tux, it's a miracle!!! ^v^
You got Fedora-dono to stop over here and talk about Linux-tan!! ^-^
A matter of topic, i guess...
Added after 27 seconds: (sorry no time to comment c-chan long post, i'll do that later :p )
QuoteA matter of topic, i guess...
*turns back* Hmpf!! Ã,¯__Ã,¯
I think I've lost count of the number of times I tried to hunt for some Linux-tan discussion from you.... Ã,¯0Ã,¯
Betcha it's because the Penguin God is a hardcore user.... Ã,¯Ã,¬Ã,¯
/C-chan is sad.... ;Ã,¯-Ã,¯;
Quotesorry no time to comment c-chan long post, i'll do that later )
Haha!! If Fedora-dono's "laters" are like /C-chan's "laters", that'll give me enough time to grow cabbage. ^^;
*starts plowing small field*
ah, that is a good explanation, so Linux-tan is coming from the first boot/root floppies, Linus uploaded?
oh dear, I am actually imagining Linux-tan riding on a floppy, with clogs and a book of Tanenbaum... through the Finnish winter.
Hehe,... like I said,... whatever Minix-sensei could provide to the young Linux-chan. ^___^
Only Linux-tan is way bigger than Minix even as a child, so that's gotta be a really large floppy disk. -v-'
I'm hoping this explanation helps satisfy both parties, since it gives us an excuse to keep that GNU/Linux-tan design AND it gives her a specific identity (something which is not so clear-cut with poor Mac-tan),...
...AND it also takes care of the little technicality about EVERY distros being essentially Linux. Cause it could be said that every Distros-tan carries the strong, noble and courageous spirit of Linux-sama with her. Even if She (Linux-sama) were to pass away or be bumped off by the jealous powers-that-be, her legacy will live on stronger than ever!
Cut off the hydra's head and 3 more will appear! Persecute an Idea and it will spread like wildfire!
Wait another 1000 years or so, and maybe the OS-tans of the future will attribute the creation of the world to Linux, leaving behind the Windows reign to an interesting but humble footnote in history alongside the Seleucid Empire. -v-
.....
Okay, so do you want to talk about clothing now? ^__^'
*checks on health of baby cabbages*
In the beginning, in the first versions, Linux-tan came on 2 floppies while at that time Minix came on more, but yeah, when the first programs were ported to Linux-tan, she quickly outgrew Minix-tan (even though until the second half of the ninties, you could get Linux on floppies).
Added after 2 hours 45 minutes: Quote from: "Exa"It's just me or the Linux distro-tans are really too similar to each other? They don't have as many differences as the Windows or other OS-tans...
Well, the distros are rather similar. They use the same kernel have about the same features and you could turn one into the other by just installing software and changing configurations.
Oh, and please tell me about Linux-tan's clothing.
*waters cabbage*
Okay, stand-by then. ^___^
I have some interesting theories about the clothing that I planned to use for my stories. ^.^
In the meantime, please give me your thoughts on how a Xubuntu-tan would look like? I'm aiming to make her like a younger sister to Ubuntu, charming and athletic, and perhaps accompanied by a pet gerbil/hamster/rat/whatever that Xfce critter is... ^^;
Quote from: "Kami-Tux"ah, that is a good explanation, so Linux-tan is coming from the first boot/root floppies, Linus uploaded?
oh dear, I am actually imagining Linux-tan riding on a floppy, with clogs and a book of Tanenbaum... through the Finnish winter.
Aahhhh! o_o Tanenbaum! I must read Tannenbaum books (for Computer Architecture and similar subjects for university... ) , they are all HUGE.
Quote from: "C-Chan"*waters cabbage*
Okay, stand-by then. ^___^
I have some interesting theories about the clothing that I planned to use for my stories. ^.^
In the meantime, please give me your thoughts on how a Xubuntu-tan would look like? I'm aiming to make her like a younger sister to Ubuntu, charming and athletic, and perhaps accompanied by a pet gerbil/hamster/rat/whatever that Xfce critter is... ^^;
I think she wears grey clothes, has dark skin like Ubuntu-tan and has a pet hamster. She has less 'memory' than Ubuntu-tan since Xubuntu is both lean and unexciting. Basically: a younger sister of Ubuntu-tan.
Ah shoot,... there's been so many threads posted, I forgot about this one tonight.... -v-'
Sorry, will try again tomorrow. ^__^'
BTW, glad we're both on the same wavelength with Xubuntu-chan. ^.^
I think the usual linux-tan, as we represent it, is actually to be looked as any windows-tan for its design. What i mean is, at the time Linux-tan drawing was made, gnome and any other desktop than KDE weren't really serious alternatives. Linux was seen either with KDE, either without graphical desktop. This may explain the KDE helm for any pictures of linux-tans so far.
Maybe it's time to redesign the whole linux family, since times have changed and anyway nobody (or not much ppl) care about linuxes-tans.
The problem is, we'd have to consider either the kernel (or distro, to make it easier) and graphical desktops apart... that would be painful to do...
In short, i think the avatar you have (the bearded pinguin) represents the GNU spirit (horns + beard) with classic KDE (was classic in these times) and no specific distro. What i don't know about this, is the spear. Maybe the fight against M$ ?
On non juzo-kun Linux-tans, you sometimes see the GNOME-foot on the dress.
BTW: before KDE, fvwm was the big thing (when I started the question was stable fvwm or buggy KDE) also, Linux-tan has the USB-logo, which at that time was not really the next big thing.
*peels leaf off close-to-mature cabbage to taste*
You guys keep making me forget to reply to this post. -v-'
Ehh, no matter,... I looked back and you two really didn't post much in that regard as I thought. ^^
For one thing, I think it's okay to have KamiTux represent the GNU spirit, just because not personification has to be a woman (I've seen male personifications like Norton, and have seen other stay as their animal selves). Besides, I have the suspicion that KamiTux, at one point, WAS supposed to be "Linux-tan", but one merciful artist decided to draw a standard 'moe' version of her instead. -v-
Now for the clothing. Again, I highly doubt Linux-tan was terribly high priority for the Futaba specialists, so in the great game console tradition, Linux-tan was essentially constructed from bits and pieces of Linux references:
Helmet = KDE
Helmet horns = GNU
Helmet bill = Tux
Swimsuit skirt = Tux
Trident pattern = USB?
Foot = Gnome
Silly flippers = Tux again
Spear = a symbol of her power and great defensive skills.
Spear banners = displays the main programs associated with Linux distros.
So the symbolism is there, but it just seems a bit ragtag. One of the reasons why my Linux design combines both this design and Juzo-kun's is that I find Juzo-kun's to be more normalized, and perhaps more appropriate in modern times, when Linux is more professional and far from the humble beginnings it started out with.
Storywise, I don't plan to completely scrap that penguin suit and flippers -- I'd rather keep THAT personification of Linux-tan as herself in her younger years (say mid-to-late 90's). Naturally, with greater influence and access to better equipment, she's been able to upgrade her appearance to something a bit more inspiring. ^.^
One very important symbol, however, should remain the spear, and in a way I'm happy this is shared throughout most of the other distros to make the Linux-tans a kind of warrior caste of sorts.
I imagine that in the beginning, Linux-tan's life was quite hard. True, Minix-tan taught the young Linux-chan everything she knew, and provided her with all the meager possessions she could offer to sustain her -- but in the end, the training was only enough to set the young Linux-chan off on her own journey of self-discovery (kind of like a monk or martial artist). With the onset of the Unix Wars at hand, and turmoil in the commercial OS market brewing, there was simply no life for her pupil sticking to the old traditions.
And so Linux-chan would spend the next several years working hard to survive on her own, catching her own food, making her own clothes, finding her own shelter, and avoiding trouble as best she could. Overtime she would become very good at this, and turn her uncouth survival skills into an artform -- the main backbone of her existence.
So even if she isn't the prettiest or cutest or most buxom OS-tan in existance, she's become strong, resourceful and hardy, and best of all imbued with a natural beauty and tacit intelligence. She's the most adaptable of all OS-tans, and appreciates the value of altruism and devotion. She, and her followers, are therefore the best suited to meeting the needs of poor and emerging markets -- areas of the world that the Windows-tans wouldn't set foot on even if you paid them to. ^__^
*Is in the corner, taking lots of notes*
Wow! A lot of that I've never really considered before! But aw crud! I forgot that the Linux-tans wield spears (and my renditions don't because I forgot about that)! >__<
Not all do, I never saw Lindows-tan with one.
Well, Lindows-tan is sorta of an odd one out (I should have said "I forgot that most of the Linux-tans wield spears". Silly me!). But I also guess it's okay if DSL-tan doesn't have one because she's so small (but could try to make a spear out of a toothpick! Or just use a toothpick as a weapon! :D) and Tinfoil Hat-tan doesn't have one either because she's so paranoid and probably afraid someone would try to take her spear and stab her with it if she had one!
yeah... DSL-tan surely wears a toothpick as spear. *so happy that you made DSL-tan*
BTW: is there the 'small sister' tomsrbt-tan as well? (one floppy-Linux)
Yeah, technically-speaking I had to cut my sermon short, due to work. But I meant to finish saying that, like any other caste, not all members are gonna follow the same tradition to the letter.
Neither Lindows nor DSL-chan carry spears (although as you say, they may of course improvise with scallions/toothpicks respectively).
But the crux of the matter, though, is that they're all very strong, robust, independent-minded and/or crafty. Not to imply that this makes them invincible -- far from it, the Linux spirit does also imbue them with certain DISADVANTAGES that have prevented them from taking the market by storm with their uber cheap prices (=free!).
Added after 10 minutes:
Compare countries where a person in one is skilled in many different folk trades (farming, metallurgy, pottery, masonry, etc), and a person in another that is only skilled in a single high-tech job.
Naturally, if you put person A and B together in a competition of talent, person A can work rings around the clueless B.
But for the most part, comparing person A's country to B's country is likely to yield a reverse scenario. That's because person B makes a better collective thinker than A -- and as a Collective, efficiency grows and the Collective improves faster. Naturally, there are more factors at work when you're talking socio-politics.
But if you compare the similar scenario of a praying mantis family (linux users) to an ant colony (Windows users), you start to get a clearer picture of why Windows has the wildly popular support that it has even if there are better quality OSes.
Added after 3 minutes:
BTW, this isn't Linux-related per se, but I'd like to pick thy Great Penguin God's brain a little to see if you can offer me any sort of tacit information about Xenix?
Her OS-tan is forthcoming for my micro-OVA, and I need to make sure I can take advantage of some good references about the system. ^__^
I wrote about her preconcept a little here [in bold]:
http://ostan-collections.net/post-16340.html#16340
Quote from: "Exa"It's just me or the Linux distro-tans are really too similar to each other? They don't have as many differences as the Windows or other OS-tans...
I have to agree, despite the fact that the distro-tans need to have certain obvious similarities, I think the current designs lack the appropriate variety. I don't know what ideas I could contribute to a possible redesign, but I'm willing to brainstorm with somebody to come up with something.
First question to you is,... do you know which Distros-tans are out there at this time? There's quite a few of them, just neither particularly well-known nor plentiful (hence the perfectly-understandable suspicion that they all look the same). -v-
I put a list into the wiki... and some more... different distros look different. think DSL-tan or NepaLinux-tan...
I suppose my assessment isn't all that fair since all the Linux distro-tans I've seen were done by the same artist. Have the guys responsible for the original Windows OS-tans done Linux-tans too? If so, I don't believe I've seen them. Apologies for my ignorance.
btw. Haven't noticed very much info about the Linux distro-tans in the English wiki. Am I looking in the wrong place?
Hehe,... feel free to try out our OS-tan Wiki.... ^___^
http://ostan-collections.net/wiki/Main_Page
...although I should warn you, it's not set up yet. Priority's been given to all the canon OS-tans first. (though Kami-Tux was nice enough to work on some Linux/Unix articles) ^^
Added after 1 minutes:
The English Wiki site USED to have some info on the distros-tans, but they deleted it along with over half of the OS-tan content (the bastards). Hence the reason why we made our own Wiki, salvaging the information destroyed in Wikipedia, and expanding on it. ^__^
Funny story, I ran a search on google for OS-tans (specifically Linux distro-tans) and I noticed the Italian wiki for Linux-tans was much more robust than the one in English. Too bad I can't read Italian... and my experience with google translations sucked. Anyway, thanks for saving knowledge from the wiki nazis ;010 .
edit - I already discussed this in the member intro thread, but does anyone want to talk about a potential Konqueror-tan or Amarok-tan? I think the design for either would be pretty straight forward, esp. Amarok (blue wolf logo and such).
FYI, found a rather cute rendition of the original Linux-tan design recently.... ^v^
Added after 2 minutes:
And even though it's not 100%-related (although it is OSS), here's the latest Seamonkey-tan rendition in case anyone's missed it... ^.^
[attachment deleted by admin]
Cuuuuuuuuute! such a lovely penguingirl! (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k117/SystemKarela/mini-tux-wingup.png)
Awesome find, C-Chan! ;010
Quote from: "C-Chan"FYI, found a rather cute rendition of the original Linux-tan design recently.... ^v^
Added after 2 minutes:
And even though it's not 100%-related (although it is OSS), here's the latest Seamonkey-tan rendition in case anyone's missed it... ^.^
C, I really wonder who drew that Linux-tan you showed us? Is it someone here in the forum? Coz' I saw that on waka yesterday...
(P.S. me love that linux-tan's design)
QuoteC, I really wonder who drew that Linux-tan you showed us? Is it someone here in the forum? Coz' I saw that on waka yesterday...
(P.S. me love that linux-tan's design)
Yo Alfamille. ^__^
If it was someone here, he/she'd have to be very altruistic to post something without recognition. Likely that just comes from the "source" -- a brave artist on some image board standing in the midst of a sea of Windows lovers. ^.^
You know of course that I prefer to draw Linux-sama without her flippers. -.-'
Quote from: "C-Chan"QuoteC, I really wonder who drew that Linux-tan you showed us? Is it someone here in the forum? Coz' I saw that on waka yesterday...
(P.S. me love that linux-tan's design)
Yo Alfamille. ^__^
If it was someone here, he/she'd have to be very altruistic to post something without recognition. Likely that just comes from the "source" -- a brave artist on some image board standing in the midst of a sea of Windows lovers. ^.^
You know of course that I prefer to draw Linux-sama without her flippers. -.-'
As far as her footwear is concerned, I don't really mind if she has flippers.
But of course, you just made it (or drew it) differently that it went a little bit nicer to look :)