lol, ok, anyhoo from the Introduction to Anime thread:
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"you gotta love a little girl that favors the FN P-90.. i loge that gun :D
Quote from: "SleepyD"well you got me there, the FN P90 pwns. I fell in love with the thing before I even knew what it was called when I watched that first ep.
But I still like how they use some of the older weapons. (Like Triela's Model 1897 Trench Shotgun) ....Did she ever fire that? o_O
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"well im a big fan of shotguns too.. i carried one in araq with a bandolier of shells.. but the P-90 is hands down the coolest sub machine gun out there.. even if it does us a weird round size. I got a full metal airsoft one on order!
Quote from: "Myrdin"What the hell? A full metal P90? The real one has an almost entirely polymer receiver.
The ammo it uses isn't wierd at all. The 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge is a similar design and it's well over 60 years old. I personally think the 5.7 is based on the 7.62 Tok but don't care enough to confirm it. The P90 is a great design but it has some funky ergonomics. Some people just never get the hang of it. The magazines are also not good for field use; if bumped too hard they eject all the bullets.
Does the L22A2 count as an SMG? If so, that's my favorite.
Now, I don't know much about firearms really, apart from their construction. And having never fired one, nor even knowing how to properly shoot one, I can't say I should be a reliable source of information.
Having said that,
in the P90s defense, to quote David Crane from defensereview.com
QuoteIt should be noted that the rumor about the FN P90's magazine (that the ammo can get jumbled up inside the magazine, if the magazine is partially loaded and the weapon is dropped, or if the partially-loaded magazine dropped by itself, and hits the ground hard enough) is, so far, unsubstantiated.
As for the L22A2.... If you think an M4 Carbine is a submachine gun then....
(That's what it is, right? a carbine?)
the M4 is just a cabien rifle, sub machine fun would be like a MP 5
right, so that would put it in... assault rifles? or would you consider carbines in a separate category/sub-category?
I didn't think it would be a submachine gun
Then again classifying all these guns seems a tad pointless to me
Although the L22 does have the same length barrel as the M4 carbine it is about a third shorter overall. It also fills the same role previously held by SMG's; A compact weapon for storing and/or fighting in confined spaces and as a PDW. So, some would consider it a SMG and some would consider it... something else. Then again, five minutes with the L22 and a parts set and you can have a full-sized L85A2. It's worth noting that a few arms makers have begun classifying compact rifles as sub-machine guns. The distinctions are anything but clear now.
As for the P90, I've had to deal with messed up magazines during a firing trial. However, I'm no stranger to the exaggerations of the rumor mill (my favorite current service rifle is the SA80). The problems I experienced could be early-run teething issues that have since been rectified.
Or David Crane might simply have neglected to do his research.
Edit: I should clarify.
The problems I had were not that the inside of the magazine got jumbled, like David's quote implied. When bumped, the ammo would fly OUT of the magazine.
carbine literaly just means a shorter version of something. An M4 is a shorter version of the M 16 series. The m 16 is a rifle. after the A-1 it lost its fully auto feature (not that it was any good with the small ass mags they used to have) and replaced it with a 3 round burst. Hardly what I would call a sub machine gun.
I would not ever call an M4 a submachine gun. It is used as an assault rifle in every sense of the word.
Carbine is another word open to interpretation. In WW2 some "Carbine" models were actually LONGER than the original design.
Interesting. I love weapons but my knowlage is limited to what ive used and a little more. I worked in a marine corps armory.. but we use very out dated and limited gear
Ok, I'm going to post just a few of my favorite guns up here. Say what you think they are. Correct answers will be rewarded with a boring soliloquoy about how awesome they are.
1
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/Myrdin_2006/mysterygun1.jpg)
2
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/Myrdin_2006/mysterygun2.gif)
3
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/Myrdin_2006/mysterygun3.jpg)
4
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/Myrdin_2006/45140467.jpg)
oy.. why would you want that last one? thats that peice or crap the brits use right? even they hate it. I also dont like where the charging handle is, you have to to take your shooting hand off of the pistol grip to charge it.
I can't understand why people hate those so much.
That gun pictured was made by H&K. It's more reliable than an M16, more accurate, more compact, better range, and loved by it's users. Yet everyone outside of the British military thinks it's a POS. The M16 was apallingly unreliable when it was introduced. Countless KIA's were attributed to it's failure to function but nowadays it's regarded as a great weapon(not by me).
Urgh. I do tend to babble on when it comes to military technology.
Edit: Ok, I looked up the history. It seems the original versions made 20 years ago, before GB bought HK, had manufacturing defects. They've been improved since then and no one bothered to inform the rumor mill.
Not sure on the first two, and the third I think is a Kar98.
The 4th would be the LMG version of the L85 assult rifle (distinguishable by the lengthened barrel and bipod), don't remember the exact model number though.
And both the L85 and M16 were plagued by improper care and maintenance when they were introduced in their respective countries, leading to their initial reputations of unreliability.
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6757/2982915r1035161kx.jpg)
This is my british buddy, he let me play with his rifle quite a bit, but he hated the thing. I concur.
Tho I do like H&K. I got some high quality mags for my M16 made by them. far better then the POS mags they issue us. But I honestly like the M 16 series rifles. Yes the originals were shitty, but they have been modified and adapted quite a bit now. I never had a problem with mine. It defended my life in combat and I could rely on it to fire when i needed it, and I knew what I aimed at I would hit. Im a 3rd award expert with it, and even at the 500 yard line with iron sights I hit 10 out of 10. Personaly Id rather have an M4 if I had to carry a rifle tho.. we dont really engage things at 500 yards anymore.. most engagements are less the 100. But then again I carried a Benelli 1014 for part of it, the other with a mossberg M500. Im a shotgun sort myself. easier to clear rooms when less aiming is required to put baddies down fast
judging from all the guns Myrdin has been posting, I'm inclined to believe that the third is a Lee-Enfield rifle. ^^
and H&K has some sweet lookin stuff. Can't really say much other than looks tho. ^^;;
well like I said before, I love guns, but i can only tell you what I know from personal expereience. Ive still a bit to learn on some things. But like I said, from the cross training ive recived, I prefer my good old M16 series rifle
I recognize him!!! Can't say where from, though. Is he normally stationed at Salisbury Plain? I go through there a lot.
SleepyD is partly right. It's a Lee-Enfield No4 Mk1 rifle.
But not just any Lee-Enfield No4 Mk1. It's a Mk1(T). The uber-1337 snipz0r variant. It has the wonky charactaristic of becoming more accurate with range. For example, you might shoot a one inch grouping at 100 meters, and then get another 1 inch grouping at 150 meters! I just have a fondness for the Enfield rear locking lug, cock on close action. Arguably the most reliable rifle ever AND the fastest cycling bolt-action rifle ever. EVER! Unlike a Mauser 1898 design(another excellent bolt rifle) the locking lugs can be cleared just by sweeping a finger across the lug.
Bugger if I know -_- its been a long time since I seen him We were in Basra at the time. The brits had been there for some time so when we moved into the area they sent him over as a guide to show us the ropes. Since I was the LT's official translator (cus i got bored and actually STUDIED the language cards they gave us, and then used it effectivly, sealing myself into volenteer doom) the two of us hung out quite a bit. fucks sake tho.. I cant remember his name right now.. it was 3 deployments ago. i guess its true what everyone told me.. start writing names on photos or you will quickly forget names..
Guns are like politics. Everyone has set preferences and it's possible to debate pros and cons endlessly.
Loyd! that was it! Oly Loyd! or was it Loyd Oly? bugger i dont know.
Quote from: "Myrdin"Ok, I'm going to post just a few of my favorite guns up here. Say what you think they are. Correct answers will be rewarded with a boring soliloquoy about how awesome they are.
1 looks like something from WWI, very massive very cool :D
2 no idea, doesn't look like it's got a hard backblow but produces quite some heat and has a small clip
3 a type of garand?
4 no idea, the barrel is reinforced in a light way and it has a di-pod, large clip, some kind of multifunctional weapon probably?
i'm not expert on guns but i just look at the way they're built and try to make up some of the properties XD
the only real guns i ever fired was on a shooting range at clay discs XD
weapons of choise in games:
-FG40, spray and pray, deadly at close range
-dual wield hand pistols, cos they're so damn cool :P
What type of guns have you fired?
My only experience shooting a real firearm was with my dad's M4 Carbine against balloons in a mine during an outing with the family. I was the best shot out of all my siblings XD
Oy I cant even remember all the weapons ive shot.. but as or ones I was extensivly trained on, or at least cross trained enough to use if need be:
M16 A2
M16 A4
M4
M9
1911
M40 A3
M82 A3
M240 G and B
Mk 19 mod 3
M2 50 cal.
Mossberg M500
Mossberg M590 (yeah I know.. they are practicly one and the same.. but I own one and used the other at work)
Bennelli 1014
9mm Sten (we got a pair of WWII we cofenscated out there to work and went shooting with them at the range)
Ak-47
SVD
M203 40mm
M-32 40mm (or was it M 38? I donno.. we got them shortly before we left.. but long enough for me to fire them)
AT-4
M-72
SMAW
and a Howitzer.
I got trained on the the M 14 but never got to fire it. Same with that british rifle. And Ive used a M1 grand for drill..
Oh I almost forgot! those Miniguns on the Hueys! I was on a TRAP training mission and the crewchief let me squeeze off a burst with it!
crikey... I even submited this and i had forgotten my primary MOS -_-
Im and expert with both the 80mm and 61mm mortar systems employed by the Marine corps.
I work for a company that makes stuff for a lot of arms manufacturers and governments. I also have an FFL03 for my own use. So, I've handled a lot of weapons.
Several AR15 variants, FAL, M700, Remington 870, Mossberg 590, Model 12 & Model 1897, Galil AR and SAR, AK47, 74, and some other version, Saiga, M38, M40, M91/30, SVT40, MG42/3, M14, M21, Benelli Nova and M4, M2 HB, Bren Gun, nearly every ww2 rifle, SKS, lots more.
Not very many rocket or missile systems, though. A few artillery pieces. Sorry, I'm not too good with the names of crew served weapons.
There were alot ive used that I dont even know what they are.. mostly old WWII types. we confenscated alot in the differnt weapons caches that we've uncovered. Actually.. ive got half a dozen casings from on odd caliber rifle, that have the nazi eagle stamped on the bottom.. thats how old some of the weapons the insergents are using are.
Did it look like this?
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl02-e.htm
or this?
http://feldbluse.ld.infoseek.co.jp/a-041.html
or this?
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&q=FG42&btnG=Search
Or something else? WW2 weapons are my personal favorite.
If it's that last one, do everything in your power to keep it. They are ultra rare and an incredible collectors piece.
there were a couple of all of those. I got to tinker with them some at the range if we had ammo for them. rounds sealed in cans perserve very well, some looked brand new
The K98 is worth $200+
The G43, K43, and similar variants start at about $1000 and go up from there.
The FG42 starts at about $4000 last I checked, IF you can find one.
STG44's are invaluable.
Please don't tell me they were destroyed. ;164
every last one.
come to think of it.. I think I have footage of us usign a tank to crush one to make it in-op
NOOO!! I said don't tell me!
It pains me so much to hear that. I cry blood.
They were confinscated enemy weapons and munitions, honestly.. what were we soppose to do with them? US customs wont let them back in the states, and we cant have them anyways because that would be stealing. they cant go to private owners. Policy dictates that one or two may be kept there for training purposes (identifying threat weapons and the like) the rest must be destroyed to prevent enemy usage
I know they have to be destroyed now but it is still saddening. When my grandpa came back from Korea they let him bring two captured guns with him.
On the plus side, I love explosions and the EOD guys don't skimp on the PETN.
Yes, it was quite the the explosion. My sister is EOD infact, she just got back from Aftganistan. But as for the guns.. just as a cop cant take a gun seised in a raid home, neither can we. Korea and now.. are quite a bit different. No only one weapon per UNIT may return to the states, and it has to be demilled. We have one AK-47 in our armory from Aftganistan right after 9/11.. but the bolt, trigger, fire selector and muzzel were all welded beyond any use or repair.
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"every last one.
come to think of it.. I think I have footage of us usign a tank to crush one to make it in-op
You have a way of uploading that footage for the rest of us to see? This I'd really like to see XD Such waste of good weapons, though less weapons to keep track off, less likely they'll end up in the wrong hands ^^;
i dont have a place to upload video.. nore to i feel i want to. it pains me to see them destroyed too.
OOOH I remembered what that new rifle that the military is looking at now that the OWIC and XM-8 are a no go, its the FN SCAR or FN SOF Combat Assault Rifle. Its going to be made in to a mix and match weapon where you can swap out barrels and parts in a mater of minutes to change it from a 5.56 to 7.62 or from a carbine to a full sized rifle, or even to an automatic rifle. Its pretty bad ass... but instead of being all space age looking, they made it a natural step up from the M16 series. Evolution vs Revolution. But I personaly like tried and true things rather then experimental when it comes to my life on the line.
(http://world.guns.ru/assault/scar_l-1.jpg)
(http://world.guns.ru/assault/scar-l_eglm.jpg)
(http://world.guns.ru/assault/scar_h.jpg)
(http://world.guns.ru/assault/scar-l_disasm.jpg)
Least, thats what Ive heard and read in the Marine Corps Times som while ago.
but seriosly.. who would want to carry this damn thing?
(http://world.guns.ru/assault/oicw.jpg)
and I feel like im gonna break this damn thing... plus like the current rifle series.. they are manufacured in set configurations... not very versitle.
(http://world.guns.ru/assault/xm8.jpg)
Internally the SCAR looks like it has more in common with the FAL than the M16. My understanding was that the SCAR project was for SOCOM units and that the regulars would use whatever the FCS project decides on, whenever they finally decide on something. It's interesting to note how similar the new vehicle lineup is to the British Scorpion design philosophy.
Last I heard.. and this was.. decemberish if I recall, I saw a article in the Marine Corps Times about how the SCAR was now the number one contender for the M-16 series replacement. The XM-8 was suspended in like.. 2005 as the US Military relized that we needed to rethink our choice for a new rifle as our role in combat changed.
EDIT:
oh, and if you want a SCAR airsoft rifle..
http://www.speedytoys.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=1450&catid=
Need fictional guns?
http://www.endoshoji.com/page013.html
:D
alll of that and no jackle for hellsing -_- im dissapointed. tho i want vashes gun.
both casull and jackal will be great!
vash's gun.. I want wolfwood's gun/guns
CERUBERUS KIT.. *drools*
i'd go berserk if i had those.
BWAHAHAHAHA
I am now the proud owner of a .44 Desert Eagle, and a 1954 Mauser rifle!!
I also spent all day today shooting skeet and cans. My ears are ringing but I couldnt be happier.
I want an AKM, so i could hold up the bank.I could set the record as the worlds youngest bank robbber.Too bad we're not allowed to own firearms here ;014 .
Thats a pretty bad reason to own a gun. -_-
Tho, its been quite some time since i posted in this thread, I had forgotten about it. So much in fact my personal collection has grown quite a bit. it now consists of:
a Mauser rifle...
(http://www.gewehr43.com/k98nice.jpg)
.50 Desert Eagle (im about to get it sent off to the manufacurer to get this coating put on it..
(http://www.magnumresearch.com/images/finish_DE_MCGO.jpg)
A civilian M-4 for work, exept mine has the fullsize adjustable stock.. not that smaller version pictured here..
(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/olympic/oly_k3b-m4.jpg)
A berretta PX4 Storm also for work. 9mm veriety
(http://www.umarexusa.com/images/m_2253004.jpg)
a walther p22 22LR with extended compensator for stability:
(http://www.acesindoorshooting.com/files/19670473.jpg)
a Mossberg M590 12guage also also for work:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Shotgun_Mossberg_590.jpg)
a black powder pistol much like this one, but with polished brass, looks new. I should take a picture of it someday...
(http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/images/Plains%20pistol.jpg)
and a break-action double barrel 12guage, very similar to this one exept its from the wild west and was most likely hand made but a gunsmith. Ive got it broken down into its smallest peices wire brushing all the rust and crud its acumulated over the years, and then i want to get it blued and the stock treated.
(http://www.mauser.org/shotguns/stagecoach/stagecoach02.jpg)
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"Thats a pretty bad reason to own a gun. -_-
i dont any other reason to own a gun. Unless u are plotting a bank robbery or u are a salavatating Nazi who believes in institutionalised rasism.There is no actual need to posess any thing heavier than a pistol.
-_- your ignorance hurts me. However, you made a good point.
DONT EVER EVER GET A GUN.
I fear what you would actually do with it.
For someone that has a ferrari in their sig I would have expected you to understand. Im assuming your a car person. Why do you like cars? They look neat? You like to go fast? You have a fasination with complex finly tuned machinery that turns into something awsome in the hands of a master?
Id like to think its something along the last one. Just as car people lift the hood of a car and drool over it, thats what gun people do when they look at guns.
I dont own a gun so I can go shoot people, rob a bank, or any of that other stuff people think guns are for. I own them because they are facinating peices of machinery. Its enjoyable to look online or shop around for high quality parts or upgrades for them, fine tuning them making them as accurate as possible.
Plus, target shooting is a blast. It takes a great deal of skill to shoot well and hours and hours of practice, but when you can hit a basketball sized target at 500yards with iron sights (no scope or magnification of any kind) its preticuraly satisfying.
Again, as I mentioned before as well, I carry them for work. Its part of my job. There is another reason to own the most acurate finely tuned weapons on the market, because ill be trusting my life to them (and another reason to spend those hours on the range, because he who shoots accuratly first, wins)
In addition to work and hobby shooting there is also hunting. No one hunts with a pistol (though my grandpa carrys a.44 magnum with him when he is in the wilderness.. it takes alot to puncture the skull of an attacking bear)
Personal safety if you live in a bad neighborhood is another good reason to carry one. There are many reasons to own a gun, but it sounds like you wouldnt be a responsible owner who respects the weapon, so yes. you should never own one nor do you have a reason to. People that are ingnorant about guns should not own them.
BTW... Most gun laws are more strict on pistols, not rifles. Pistols are what are typicly used by the bad element as they are concealable. Its a great deal harder to walk into a bank with a 3 foot long rifle concealed.
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"
"Again, as I mentioned before as well, I carry them for work. Its part of my job. "
"BTW... Most gun laws are more strict on pistols, not rifles. Pistols are what are typicly used by the bad element as they are concealable. Its a great deal harder to walk into a bank with a 3 foot long rifle concealed".
a few things i dont get.
First, You're a security guard,and u need to carry a riffle? Right.
Second, you cant rob a bank with a pistol. u need a machine gun.
Third,I doesn't take much to know that im a ignorant,self centred $!#@$#@.Just look at the cars i like.See the car, know the man.
Hm, I figgered you meant the bank thing as a joke, no need for animosity is it? :(
Anyhoo. The day I'd need to own a gun, that's the day this place (where I live) is no longer a good place to live.
I've fired lots of weapons over the years tho... Pistols, shotguns, rifles, I was also in a pistol club with my friend for a while. Just out of curiosity really, never been really keen on doing it on a regular basis.
QuoteFirst, You're a security guard,and u need to carry a riffle? Right.
yes.
Oh and.. Yes.
One more thing... Yes.
Being as its operational security information, I cant say what, but dispite your holier then tho art additude against security, SOME security personel are highly trained and guard items of interest to national security. Plus, you try stopping someone from ramming a truck full of explosives through a gate with a 9mm pistol, its not going to happen. a 9mm isnt likely to even penetrate the tempered glass, let alone be flying straight after words. Plus, for acurate shooting a pistol is only good till about 20 yards, after that the risk of a miss is to great. Like i said, without a scope i can hit a potential target from 500 yards away. Pistol wouldnt do me very good against somebody on a roof top sniping people at his former work now would it?
and before you bring up the shotgun, yes I need that too. Its a hell of alot easier to get less then lethal rounds for a 12 guage then anything else. Dispite what you SEEM to think, I dont like the idea of having to kill someone and like to have good alternitives near by. Like the advanced tazer I just purchased. Guns are always, as they should be, a last resort when all other means have failed or cannot be reasonably employed.
(http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/homesecuritystore/advanced-taser.jpg)
QuoteSecond, you cant rob a bank with a pistol. u need a machine gun.
You watch too many movies. Most robberies, including bank robberies are done with pistols and most of the staff or other patrons aren't even aware its happening untill he is alread on his way out. They walk up, jam a gun where the teller only can see it, get just what that teller has, threatens to shoot them if she calls the cops before he leaves and takes off. Bank robberies are very rarely the 4 men in president masks with fully automatic AK47s taking hostages and blowing the safe open. That just screams "CATCH ME!" Because it will nearly always end up with a shoot out with the police.
Muggers, robbers, and all that, tend to use a concealable weapon, a pistol. Heck most school shootings are performed by pistols (like the infamous verginia tech incident, which i might add, would have been stopped long before he had gotten that far if citizens in that school had been alowed to arm themselves)
QuoteThird,I doesn't take much to know that im a ignorant,self centred $!#@$#@.Just look at the cars i like.See the car, know the man.
Indeed, so it seems.
QuoteHm, I figgered you meant the bank thing as a joke, no need for animosity is it?
Joking about robbery, murder, shootings, and anything of the sort is NEVER a joke. Too many people have died because they ASUMED he was joking about it (columbine high school for instance.) No people in my line of work take that VERY seriously. Especialy since everyone seems to think only people who contemplate stuff like that want to own guns and it makes things hard on responsible gun owners.
QuoteAnyhoo. The day I'd need to own a gun, that's the day this place (where I live) is no longer a good place to live.
I really dont think anyplace is safe to live really. Unless you live in the middle of no where with no people. Everywhere has a crime rate, its just lower in some places. LA for instance, is the eqivelant of a urban warzone. Seriously, SleepyD needs to move the hell out of there. They offered me 75K a year to START as a cop there when I got out of the military. I turned it down because I felt i had a better chance of dying there then I did in Iraq. Gangers at least shoot straight and I dont have armored vehicles to back me up there. But if your in one of those low crime places all the better. But I personaly spent entirely too much time defending others lives and property to let my own be taken because I was complacent and thought it couldnt happen to me.
QuoteI've fired lots of weapons over the years tho... Pistols, shotguns, rifles, I was also in a pistol club with my friend for a while. Just out of curiosity really, never been really keen on doing it on a regular basis.
Its not for everyone. Just like any other hobby not everyone will like it, but at least your not so scared of them that you avoid them and are ignorant of what they really are.
and to end this post, remember kids, guns dont kill people, shit heads holding guns kill people.
Ok, I realize that gun culture is different in different parts of the world. I guess because we never had any school/university shootings here, it's easier to take jokes such as that more lightly, and you know yourself that when you've been to places like 4chan, everything, even those things get joked about, even if may be in extremely bad taste. Anyhoo, note to everyone: this is not /b/. And I don't condone those kind of jokes anyway, you'd never catch me telling one of them.
Armed bank robberies aren't common in Norway either, though we had one big one some years back where lots of automatic weapons were involved, there was an hour long shootout and a police officer was shot dead. In the end all perps were caught though. I'm not sure if it's either gun regulation, peoples attitude towards weapons in general or just the tighter police control that keeps stuff like that from happening (though police aren't normally carrying weapons here, ironically enough).
Indeed its a cultural issue. US culture is what breeds crime, not guns. Guns are simply tools used by the bad element. Taking them away will not solve violent crime or their use, it will simply take them out of the hands of innocents or law enforcement protecting themselves. They are just used as a scapegoat for people wanting an easy excuse for crime, rather then looking at the underlaying factors that create it.
For example: In verginia, where the forementioned shooting took place, the individual that performed that massacar carried two pistols and reloading them took as much as a minute at a time. Anyone that could have been armed that day, could have stopped him at that point, but since no law abiding citizens had one the perp was able to casually walk the halls and killed more people in one shooting then anyone else so far.
However, in other districts, where laws were passed allowing students and staff to carry with the proper permit, shooting were massivly down. Simple fact being, the mass shooters are afraid of being shot themselves. Even if they intend to die by the end, its not much of a statement if they only get 3 people before someone ends them. They want to make a statement and thats not a very good one. So they dont do it at schools where people could be armed.
In rare cases where they do attack, they are as I said, stopped after 1-3 victims usually. One case (id have to look up the name) it was the principle of a highschool that got his gun and prevented the individual from hurting more students.
as the old saying goes, if you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.
But like I said, people need to look more closely at the causes of crime, not the tools used in them. Poverty, untreated mental illness, and the like. Heck, just allowing people to think that joking about killing someone or robbing a bank is laying the foundations of crime. The seed of idea has to be planted first. If people dont concider it in the first place, it would never happen.
Example: Im orignaly from montana. In montana we had no, no guns at school laws. Highschoolers used to keep their hunting rifles in a rack in the back window of their truck. Montanans just think of rifles as for hunting. The thought of using them to shoot people at school just never occured to us.
When columnbine happened it really started this whole school shooting mess. I dont think I really remember much of that sort before that. But after they made such a huge deal about it on the news, the schools paniced, the media covered it, its all you heard about, then they seemed to start happening left and right. Some of that may be because there was less focus on it, but part of its also the thought never occured to them. The medias coverage of the horror of such a shooting, in fact, seems to have caused more. That raction is exactly what shooters want, they are pissed off at someone and want to show everyone how pissed off. The media showed them how.
If you listen to me talk for any period of time, youll figure out I hate the media. They are not the becons of truth they claim to be.
Anyhow, Ive never lived anywhere where crime wasnt a major issue. Ive spent most of my time in either in the US, or in Iraq where its even worse. I may not be the paranoid sort that I am if it wasnt for that fact, and if you can walk down the street without sizing up possible threats at all time, I truly envy you.
Doesnt mean I belive any less that being armed and knowlageable on the streets of a US city is any less of a good idea.
Allow me to first state that while I don't support organizations like the NRA, I do believe it's important for each American citizen to have the right to arm themselves (and I don't see where relegating it to just certain guns is going to help). At the same time, I can, in some way, identify with people who'd just prefer not to be involved with guns at all. In the wrong hands they are most certainly abominations, but really I see no way in avoiding that, I think everyone, in some amount, has a predisposition towards violence. Sounds horrible, I know, but such is the downfall of our species, we take things that can have such potential for good and twist it into something that takes us further down the road of self-destruction. Meh, enough with me waxing philosophical, I guess I should point out that I do believe it's important to have regulations on who weapons are sold to. The only thing that bothers me about regulation is the potential for it to be abused, it's the kind of b.s. that happens all the time because some people just don't feel "safe" enough or just get drunk with power. I too, really don't think outlawing guns is getting to the heart of the matter when it comes to crime. Do I think allowing citizens to carry lowers crime? Don't know, but it's got to be better than walking around feeling exposed, and hell, banning guns can only make matters worse. I just don't understand the logic of people who want to have guns outlawed (this is coming from someone who considers himself liberal as teh f ***). How does making a law affect lawless citizens, that is, why is a criminal going to be affected by gun laws when he does or at least intends to break the law to being with? What bothers me is how are those who simply don't agree with guns going to feel if nearly every American citizen has a gun? I know I wouldn't feel safe, so I have some concern about how fair gun laws must be to them as well. Changing gears, obviously there are those people who shouldn't own a gun, even law-abiding citizens, whether they just don't feel comfortable wielding a gun, whether they have a mental disorder, or if they are just don't seem to be responsible enough to wield one ("The Nuge" and Mr. Heston come to mind). All that being said, I consider myself a bit of a "non-participating" gun enthusiast (in other words, I like gun history, trivia, and technology {sucker for a six shooter}, but haven't actually used one but once or twice in my life). For some time, I've thought about owning a gun, mostly for my own and others' protection (and maybe a little for hobbyist shooting), but have always been hesitant because it would be totally useless unless I knew how to operate the damn thing.
Well some restrictions are currently in place. They could be alot tighter I would say, but they have to be tightened in the right way.
I personaly feel that you should have to get a licence to own and purchase guns. To get this licence you would need to pass a background check and attend a general gun operations and safety class. Former or current law enforcement, military, and security should be able to skip the class part as long as they got out with an honorable discharge etc... Just like now, any felony convictions, or any convition of domestic abuse would take away your right to carry. Persons of mental or medical conditions that would prevent them from being able to safely operate a gun would also be inelegable.
HOWEVER, the goverment would have to have a valid reason to deny you this permit, unlike current concealed carry laws in states like california where they dont need a reason to let you have the licence. Stupid californa.
With a process like that, I belive that we would increse the number of responsible gun owners. With a own/purchase licence and a concealed carry permit responsible gun owners would be able to freely purchase and carry their weapons. Too much hassle to attend a class before you buy? I think not. If your a responsible person, your willing to take the time to better your skills.
on a side rant about california.. that Walther P22 I have displayed above, in california its illegal to own, because you can purchase a threaded barrel for a mock silencer. Because of that, its concidered an "assault weapon" by their laws. -_- its no bigger then it is in that picture, and it fires 22 LR, which is unlikely to even penetrate someones skulls, and cirtanly wouldnt penetrate a car or anything like that. Plus, its a MOCK silencer. Not that a 22 really needs a silencer, its pretty quiet as it is. Stupid california.
Speaking of revolvers, Ive been looking to get a .357 colt python (liek barry carried in resident evil) I wouldnt carry it on duty, but revolvers are a blast to use in target/compitetion shooting. If i had to name a "gentalmens weapons" that would be it. Some people like them for duty tho.. unlike automatics revolvers dont jam, missfeed, double feed, fail to extract or any number of mechanical errors. They are by far more reliable in that aspect.. its the round capacity that causes a problem...
You should go to ranges more often. Its a fun hobby, and you dont have to own. Most ranges have relitivly cheap rental rates. The local range here will allow you to rent as many guns as you like for 12 dollars (tho you can only rent one at a time, and renting guns of differnt calibers will make you buy more ammo -_-) Or, you could get a small caliber target pistol. That Walther P22 I have was 275 when I bought it, it costs me 20 dollars per spare mag. Pretty cheap to buy over all, and you can get a box of 500 rounds of 22LR for about 10 bucks at walmart. VS my .50 cal desert eagle which costs 35 for 25 rounds (more then a dollar a shot but hells yes is it worth it!)
They sell 22LR in revolvers too, since thats your fancy. Buy a 22 revolver (about 300 dollars approx) targets and ammo (5 for a packet of pistol targets, 10 per 500 rounds) and some hearing and eye protection and your set to target shoot for a while. you could spend about 15 a month and shoot every weekend with one like that. Plus, 50 bucks at walmat would get you an electronic fire proof safe big enough to lock it up between trips if you worry about that sort of thing.
This taurus retails for 300-325 I hear, its pretty concealable and holds 7 shots. pretty good possibility.
(http://johno.myiglou.com/images/taurus1.JPG)
or here is a stub that would be great as a self defence conceable. Ince its taurus its likely to be just as cheap if not cheaper.
(http://www.tranquility.net/~target/images/taurus_9mm_rev.jpg)
As for learning to shoot, Im sure any range would be happy to give classes, or even other hobbiest shooters there if you ask them for pointers. Id give you lessons, but I cant exactly run by to give them -_-
Yeah, those kind of restrictions make sense, it's just that one rarely sees such care taken in making them.
My local Army/Navy pawn shop had a few revolvers, Rugers in fact, nearly nosebleed-worthy. I think my fav gun is the Colt SAA, mostly due to it being the weapon of choice of Revolver Ocelot, of course there's the historical factor too. I also loves the Python...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Python-nickel.jpg
Now THAT'S totally nosebleed-worthy. You gots your 10 types of awesome right there!
Thanks for the advice, and I appreciate your gesture of help. Perhaps I'll have enough time and money to do some shooting during the holidays, currently school doesn't leave me with enough time.
ah the good old single action army.. very nosebleed worthy, however i cant see myselve owning a single action revolver -_- cocking between each shot makes things rather difficult at times.
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"Well some restrictions are currently in place. They could be alot tighter I would say, but they have to be tightened in the right way.
I personaly feel that you should have to get a licence to own and purchase guns. To get this licence you would need to pass a background check and attend a general gun operations and safety class. Former or current law enforcement, military, and security should be able to skip the class part as long as they got out with an honorable discharge etc... Just like now, any felony convictions, or any convition of domestic abuse would take away your right to carry. Persons of mental or medical conditions that would prevent them from being able to safely operate a gun would also be inelegable.
HOWEVER, the goverment would have to have a valid reason to deny you this permit, unlike current concealed carry laws in states like california where they dont need a reason to let you have the licence. Stupid californa.
With a process like that, I belive that we would increse the number of responsible gun owners. With a own/purchase licence and a concealed carry permit responsible gun owners would be able to freely purchase and carry their weapons. Too much hassle to attend a class before you buy? I think not. If your a responsible person, your willing to take the time to better your skills.
Haha.... yeah, CA gun laws suck. People who want a gun for shady purposes are going to get them anyway.... And the "rules" that decide which guns are "assault weapons" seem very arbitrary, as are the list of guns
in addition to the guns already banned by federal law.
I do believe it was one (or both) of our senators who pushed for these restrictions.
I'd be willing to take classes. In fact... I don't see the point in buying a working firearm without learning how to use the thing.
Guns do interest me. There's that thing about beautifully crafted weapons (guns or otherwise) I can't describe. ^^
well, buying one without attempting to learn how to use it yes, but if you buy it with intent to learn, its nice to learn with the weapon you will be shooting from then on.
I hear you tho, the draw of finely crafted weapons is great. thats why you wont see me with cheap knock off sand the like. Like I have a bunch of swords, but they arnt cheap mall knock offs, they are made by a spanish steel company that makes the marine corps saber. They, if sharpened would stand up to combat use.
Like I said before, I look at guns like other people look at cars. Its a finly crafted peice of machinery.
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"well, buying one without attempting to learn how to use it yes, but if you buy it with intent to learn, its nice to learn with the weapon you will be shooting from then on.
I hear you tho, the draw of finely crafted weapons is great. thats why you wont see me with cheap knock off sand the like. Like I have a bunch of swords, but they arnt cheap mall knock offs, they are made by a spanish steel company that makes the marine corps saber. They, if sharpened would stand up to combat use.
Like I said before, I look at guns like other people look at cars. Its a finly crafted peice of machinery.
Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't know why liking weapons has to be associated with being a war-mongering, violent, rednecked bastard (
I guess "The Nuge" and Mr. Heston probably have something to do with that). Seriously, it's something I find myself doing, hence my initial reluctance to post in this thread. I think what really hurts truly responsible gun users and their image is that they are so closely identified with public figures who so often call themselves "responsible" - essentially idiots who rape the word and deprive it of any meaning with their behavior (which is anything but responsible). Not that those gun owners who are responsible should answer for those who aren't, but most certainly I would want to be distanced from anyone like that if I owned a gun. Anyway, back to the point, which is that a gun's positivity/negativity is determined by whoever is holding it, and that I wish more people truly knew that. From what I've read, Cap'n, you are one of those people, something I don't encounter far too often given my location in these great United States. You are obviously a cultured person when it comes to firearms and other weaponry and I would trust that you would know how and when to use your weapon. For that, you are to be commended.
Okay, let's start finally posting in here then...
I want this one, even though it is banned from holland because it looks too much like a firearm... (It's a frigging CO2 pistol for crying out loud)...
(http://executivegunworks.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/storeimg-464a.jpg)
It's the Walther Nighthawk, tactical semi-automatic air pistol...
And i want this Russian Bad Boy... it's the new version of this one... (http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=1397)
(http://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/IZH_Blackbird_1554_zm-1.jpg)
Semi automatic or even full auto 3 or 6rnd burst... Pretty cool for a bb gun...
Plus a S&W .177 revolver...
Anywayz, i currently own a Crossman 1377c .177cal (well the older model...), a Diana mod35 (wich was one of the most powerful spring guns in the '50s :D) and a megaline crossbow i bought as an impulse buy... ^_^
But i think air guns are not less worthy than firearms... since they also involve intricate mechanics, beautiful modeling and they can be a hell of a lot of fun when used against old stereo's (of course i use steel plating to catch the bullets that fully penetrate the stereotower...)
<_< this is the point where most gun boards would tell you to STFU and GTFO for bringing "airshit" into the conversation. Im all up for an airsoft thread, but this thread is for talk about REAL guns :p
FISH GUN!
(http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/733/1196303719546xz3.png)
and here is a picture of my babies.. well 2 of them..
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/128/img2113ij6.jpg)
But weren't we talking about crossbows when you told us to move the discussion to this thread? :P
In all seriousness though, should we really add another thread for airsoft? Myah, I'm not debating it though, just a little worried we're giving Smokey excuses to go off and make more threads :P.
naah, i'm not minding that talk... air guns are guns too, and just as lethal...
I'm not making a seperate thread for that...
Added after 7 minutes:
And yeah, we were also talking about crossbows, but i'll drop that before cappie goes complaining about them not being guns...
I don't get it anyways... i'd bet i had more fun with my so called "toys" than most people had with their big bad firearms...
eh well, crossbows to me are just guns that use string and fire bolts :P at least they are real weapons. And trust me, youd loose that bet. I have airsoft too, and I can tell you no matter how you use them, they always pale in compairison to the real thing.
yes, but you are referring to airsoft, wich is indeed crap, i am referring to pellet guns wich are basically rifles and pistols wich fire lead bullets but use air/gas instead of gunpowder...
No, actually, in my book Airsoft is superior to them. At least airsoft you can use your fake guns to have skirmishes with your friends :P remove that, and there really is no point why Id like them more then a real fire arm.. plus, like the second pic you posted.. it looked rather silly.
well, that is a real fun thing for shooting stuff in the backyard, since it has full-auto burst modes and a 400 round mag...
But at least see that the only thing air guns don't have is the power and sound of a firearm, for the rest they're just as nice...
Oh, and also... you forgot one thing about crossbows, they provide a nice workout while you're using them ^_^ a good one requires respectable power to "cock" them...
Heh, I dont have a back yard. If i did, thats where I should shoot my airsoft :p But no, when I shoot my fire arms I go out to either a range or a skeet feild. Pop up targets etc, good fun. Shooting at clay pidgeons as they fly through the air with a shotgun is awesome, especialy if there are multiple discs and your using a pump action shotgun. Plus pelet gun lack the pwoer that really makes them fun to shoot. anyone can hit a target when there is no real kick ;p
besides, having super huge round capacities takes the fun out of it. for my airsoft i specificly avoid the high cap mags and get the real capacity ones. As revolver ocelot said, reloading is exilarating, especialy in combat. Being good at reloading is more important then being good at shooting.
true, but they had to increase the round cap in that gun because with it's predecessor you'd empty a mag in 1 or 2 seconds when it was modded to 1200rpm...
BTW, are tourists able to rent a gun and shoot some clips at a range in the US?...
yeah. sign a safety waver saying your not gonna sue them if you shoot yourself, rent hearing protection, eye protection, targets gun and ammo, plus a lane. in my case i own all that so I just need a lane.
and they are MAGAZINES *nerd rage* not clips :p
also, pellet guns cant be carried with you to defend youself against assault/robbery and such. I dont go anywhere without my sidearm, and usually i got my body armor on too
nope, i'll give you that...making an air gun lethal requires preparation for the task: you will need darts and dip their tips in a poisonous substance, or you will need a high powered air rifle...
I have a high powered rifle and the darts, but for personal defence the only weapon i have wich is practical enough is my hunting knife...
btw this thread was better off being named "weapons" because i also want to learn Kenjutsu, wich now has no place here since it involves martial arts using swordfighting...
you know <_< unless you have poison that acts INSTANTLY, i wouldnt advise that, plus, I dont think i would trust even a high power pellet rifle to have the power to effectivly kill unless you get a lucky shot. heck, the 22 long rifle bullet my walther P22 uses would be hard to harm someone significantly with, and there are those that argure the 9mm is too weak.
tho I really dont have much problem there, I tend to carry my .50, nothing will survive that,it will put a hole in someone the size of a grape fruit with one hit.
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"heck, the 22 long rifle bullet my walther P22 uses would be hard to harm someone significantly with
I disagree.
(http://www.ksml.fi/multimedia/dynamic/00035/ARKISTOKUVA_35856b.jpg)
Oh yeah, that guy.
Nice shirt, though.
Well, a hole the size of a grapefruit,, may be an understatement if you use hollow tipped rounds, wich mushroom like crazy...
And as por the poison, smash an old thermostst and dip a dart-tip in the mercury... may not work instantly, but it will work... (if you were to make a kill on an unsuspecting target)
Quote from: "Smokey"And as por the poison, smash an old thermostst and dip a dart-tip in the mercury... may not work instantly, but it will work... (if you were to make a kill on an unsuspecting target)
Errr... what?
Where do you read this stuff from?
basic logic: poisons in holland are hard to come by, mercury is poisonous and comes in olt thermostats...
So if you're a bit twisted (read: sociopath) you could use that method....
But i'm more for destroying broken hifi setss in the backyard with my "gun"
Mercury is indeed poisonous, BUT, only in bit bigger amounts than just what a thermometer contains.
You got to remember that in the olden days, mercury was used as a medicine for cleaning your blood vessels. It didnt straight kill people, but it did detoriate their health after some time.
Ah, good...
Killing should be done by authorized personnel anyways..
BTW you got any gunz, VonDaab? Don't really know the finnish gun laws...
No I dont own any firearms. Other than some Airguns and Airsoft. But the Airsoft is for drawing references...
But have been serving the Finnish FailForces, I've had my share of firearm handling.
Finnish gun laws are the loosest in the whole EU. Sadly, there are lot of hippies and middle aged High hats in our goverment right now, and they're rapidly trying to make the laws stricter.
Only because of the recent school shootings and their opinion that "guns are bad and they shoot innocent people". See, of course its the guns fault that its used by a mentally unstable person.
I could go on ages ranting about that, so I'll stop now.
eeeh... yeah I was kinda sleepy when I posted that, even i dont agree with myself when i read back at it now =_=
I should have worded that differntly, I was more talking about stopping power. Ofcourse a .22LR will kill/fuck you up, just wouldnt put my money on it stopping them fast enough not to stick a knife in me at close range, or still manage to get a shot off themselves. For a self defence weapon, the ability to stop them before they harm you is essential, hence poison tipped pellets not being a good choice...
also, im slightly disturbed how talk about self defence seemed to evolve into how you could assasinate someone with a pellet gun <_<
For sheer stopping power, nothing beats a good ol' Big Blunt Object, like a baseball bat. As long as you have the skills and power. ^^
That is with the exception of the MUTHARFUCKAN RAILGUN <3
Added after 50 seconds:
Handheld railguns, the worst nightmare ever and/or the greatest win in history, Y/N?
-w-
Heh, well, its a statistical fact that the greater the distance between you and your assailant, the higher your survivability is. Baseball bats are not the best for keeping your distance, and are useless if your being held up with a gun :P plus, you cant really keep a baseball bat in a shoulder holster out of site and totally concealed
and railguns are only handheld in fiction :P same with miniguns too. you couldnt carry enough power and ammo to make a minigun or railgun worth it
Untrue. The ammo of the railgun is diminutive, which gives only the necessity of a good power source; Easy mode is just having small power packs which you insert into the gun itself, so you don't even need a reactor to hook it up to.
MMMMMIWANNATAKEITHOOME~ <3 >w<
HAHA, oh wow.
This thread is getting better with every post...
Hehe, lols. A handheld minigun, now I've heard everything...
:P it was featured in movies so people think its real.
Eh, was it? Handheld minigun?
I'd like to see how someone tried doing that one >_>
<_< cheeseandrice gotallmoldy, youve never seen either predator or terminator 2?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-r5Qn8uUcc
Added after 2 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=403aklHwL9g
Well, to steer the discussion a little more on-topic (that is, less about weapons that may or may not be real :P), I thought I'd bring up something relevant I learned about while in Texas. You see, I was there [Austin] during the election, and one of the local political issues involved tasers. The Republican candidate (http://www.raymondfrank.com/index.html) for Sheriff of Travis County (who lost, btw) had proposed that tasers be b& in Travis County (what I mean is, under his administration officers would not be allowed to use them). Apparently this became an issue because of a number of deaths and serious injuries caused by the use (or arguably abuse) by law enforcement in Austin.
I know this is one of those "shitstorm" issues, but that's seriously not my intention here. It's just that it wasn't until then I was aware it was an issue anywhere, so I'm just a little curious if this is happening anywhere else...
News to me. Ive heard of a few isolated incidents, but not any real problems with tasers being abused. Ive never heard of a death where drug use on the part of the perpetrator wernt a factor. When it comes to force methods usable by police officers, its still the safest one they can employ. You take the statistics of officer or suspect injuries for any other force method, be it swarm tactics, punches and kicks, baton, pepper spray, or firearm, and compair that the taser, and the taser is safer EVERY TIME. Hundreds of lives are saved across the country daily because the taser was there. Take it away from officers cus a few bad apples and your just going to get people hurt or killed in the long run. Besides, if an officer abuses the weapon, chances are it doesnt matter what force method he uses, hes gonna abuse it. They need to get rid of the bad officers, not the weapon system.
That's pretty much the same thing I was thinking. I have to admit, part of it is the sadistic lulz I get from watching a person getting tased, but mostly it's the fact I prefer that law enforcement have as many alternatives to lethal force as they can.
Of course, the people I was discussing this with argued that the voltage delivered permanently fucks up a person's nervous system, which is, AFAIK something they pulled out of their ass. Although I have heard that controlled substances may cause issues with a tasing...
Yeah, they were speaking out of their ass. unless a bad shot ends up in an eye, there is no lasting or serious damage caused by the taser. When it comes to electricity its amps that hurts you, and the advanced taser has less then an amp. the "50,000" volts that everyone freaks out about means nothing. About all that really tells you is how far the electricity will arc through the air. The 50,000 volts is just what allows the current to penetrate up to 2 inches of clothing (the barbs dont even have to break skin to get the effect) allowing it to be used against targets with some forms of soft body armor or baggy clothing.
Heck, the taser is mearly the smallest fraction of the power of a defibulator, and pace makers and such are designed to withstand those. In most cases as soon as the current shuts off the effects go away completely.
obviously those people did no research, unless that research came from one of the site on the web producing miss information in their crusade against the taser. The simple fact is that the taser is terrifying, and against any fact or reason there are people out there that are trying to take it out of the hands of police, when in fact that will only cost lives.
Yes, amps not volts... how could I forget. *facepalm*
Pardon, that was more a mistake on my part than anything else. I used to know a good deal more about electricity, but when you fail to study a subject, mistakes like this are bound to happen.
The people I was talking to were pretty much the kind I'd call "gun-nuts", so who really knows what they're after. Anyway, I'm willing to take a shot to prove the "pro-taser" side of the argument... I say this just before I shit myself XD.
Those things haven't found their way over to the cold, dark north yet. We seem to be doing fine, but I guess it'd be a good thing to have them, considering their abilities...
Also this reminds me of the times I've plugged myself into a generator in physics class, and amped it up. Once you get over half an amp it starts getting REAL hot, that thing does...
Besides, if the taser caused permenent damage, I really dont think police and secuirty officers, myself included would be volenteering to get tased. From personal experience I can tell you its one of the most devestating things you can get hit with, incapacitating you almost instantly, yet almost the instant it shut off it wore off and I was able to stand up and shake it off.
Plus, in some cases its more effective then a gun, even if lethal force is autorized. A guy on PCP can punch through a windsheild and break every bone in their hand and not feel it. they can toss officers that try to swarm them, and they could take a box of bullets before they go down, but the taser gets instant incapacitation with no lost of life. Tase, cuff durring the 5 second window of oppertunity, and youve bagged yourself a druggie.
some taser vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAKbplNGhDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNpT-lZLC4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBoxUH9kJxQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2g8UqWH1jU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UncMrAt5gE4&feature=related
Notice how most of those people scream alot during, but have a good laugh almost instantly after
Added after 18 minutes:
Future weapons segment on it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeu7JIUk3MU&feature=related
AAWWWWWWWW YEEEEAHHHHHHH!
The only thing this thread was lacking was some Mack Machovics. And now Capt brought him.
Cus no one knows weapons like he knows weapons lawl 8)
But whear is mai railgun?
;_;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqlTXwLG40
->- Meh.
Not sexy enough. -.-
:P too bad, for the forseable future thats all your getting. Like I said, there is no man pad railgun
QuoteBesides, if the taser caused permenent damage, I really dont think police and secuirty officers, myself included would be volenteering to get tased. From personal experience I can tell you its one of the most devestating things you can get hit with, incapacitating you almost instantly, yet almost the instant it shut off it wore off and I was able to stand up and shake it off.
In the videos I've seen it was said that getting tased is a part of the procedure to be authorized to use a taser. Like I said before, I don't really see a problem with a taser and would be willing to take a shot myself to prove such a point. I was mostly interested to see if this had become a controversial topic elsewhere as well.
Since it seems there's no avoiding the subject, I guess I'll ask, wasn't there a railgun in the movie
Eraser as well?
Besides handheld rapid fire doesn't work...
For example an uzi or mac-11 doesn't shoot a person, it shoots in his/her general direction..
If you want instant incapacitation, get a taser indeed... if you want a bloody mess get .50 magnum with hollow point bullets, or a twelve-gauge... (shotguns with buckshot are also handy when you can't aim ^_^)
And in the case you cant get a firearm, get a collapsible baton...
Easy to carry and packs a nice punch...
As for railguns, or other guns involving magnetic propulsion, we've still got a long way to go...
Plus i think that by that time we'll also have lethal lasers-guns...
Smokey....
Eh, I'm too tired to start arguing about those...
Also, post #777 GET.
Well its always been a controversial topic, even when the use record was clean. Like I said, people an unatural fear of it. Those officers and volenteers knew they were going to be tased and were able to laugh it off after wards, but if your a shithead resisting a cop out in the real world and you get hit with it, its a far more unpleasent happening.
Lol drunk redneck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRb4f8mobfE
awesome compilation of videos for traffic stops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEAqJ0BPd0g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e1PmUs1Ivk&feature=related
on of my favorite, with better commentary then I could do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqtxSM-73_E&feature=related
now watch these two videos. The first is a video as the anti taser types put out as "taser" abuse. The second is the uncut footage. I dont think I need to even say anything for the full footage, it will speak for itself:
First:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkfkQcb45Lo&feature=related
second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N6yP3nwVfw
What is that? Nothing but the twisting fact and trying to spin a completley differnt story.
If there is anything that you should take away from this, its that the best and easiest way not to get tased, is to simply comply with the officers orders. If you ever belive a police officer is in the wrong, contest it in court later, you have a chance of winning there. Argue on the side of the road, you loose.
as for eraser, yeah I think that was a railgun, but again, like the man pad miniguns, it does not exist. It takes a warehouse of capacitors and equipment to make a railgun work
I got an error on the second vid, but i can relate to the cops though, we get a lot of traffic offenders who won't comply or get agressive here too...
And besides, better a taser than the stick...
As for a man-portable minigun... There was a prototype... So, officially, it does exist...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun
Who needs a Railgun or a Minigun, when you can simply achieve the same awesome with a .50caliber Machine Gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwu3ivAJ68U&feature=channel_page
Okay, I stand corrected, sorta. Techincly yeah thats man portable, but its a crew served weapon. You cant "carry" and fire that. It takes a team to fire the weapon, and its mounted on a tripod or a vehicle. Trying to carry and shoot that would be like trying to carry and shoot a 81mm mortar, Mk19, or M2 .50 cal machine gun. It will man handle you, no matter how big you are.
also, fixed the link to the second video, give it a watch, its important to see the compairison
Added after 6 minutes:
oh, some MK19 footage.. gotta love 40mm grenade firing machine guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Jg36qwsog&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8i9KsNfPOU
Added after 3 minutes:
ooooh the 134 in action, and some AWESOME footage of it. Im glad i got to sqeese off a few rounds with that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd3k6r_4s9o&feature=related
Will do and i saw a nice grenade revolver a while ago in Future Weapons...
Now that will get the message across... ;025
.....
please god, dont tell me your talking about the M32...
(http://www.defensetech.org/archives/images/m32/M32.jpg)
its a soggy bag of smashed assholes that thing, dont even get me started. Half the crap on future weapons is junk, and the makers of that junk pay them to to showcase the weapon in the best light possible. The m32 is junk, the US military wasted every cent they ever spent on it, period.
Ah, sou...
But there must be a good grenade launcher wich can launch more than one grenade before reloading...
yeah, the MK 19 :p
It takes LONGER to fire all 6 grenades from the m32, then reload it and fire again, then it does to simply fire one round at a time from a M208 under your rifle, and your less likely to waste rounds by firing multiple shots into the same target when one will likely do. IF you have to fire more then one shot into something, there is a m203 in every 4 man fire team, and 3 fireteams per squad, you just have the 3 203 gunners fire in sequence so one is firing while the others reload, and youll get a good rate of fire. Plus the thing is a ginormus cluncky peice of crap, that in order to be able to be of use to the squad you have to carry it AND a rifle, and ammuniton for both anyways. Some units have started to request the old vietnam "bloopers" to be pulled from storage and sent over to them as they are more useful then the M32.
Not to mention the thing is built shotty... out of the 45 m32 my unit recived, in 3 months we broke the stock off over 17 of them. Not by abuse even, simply having it slung and jumping down from a troop carrier truck snapped the stock off one. The are made shotty and they are ineffective and inefficiant.
Ah, that is indeed a better weapon, even at first glance you can see that... It has a higher "magazine" capacity, so that is good, and i guess you can set one of those up a small bit away from your target and pummel them while men are closing in...
You got to remember that the M32 weights twice as much as the service rifle. So the poor guy whos carrying the M32, cant really carry anything else.
true, but that is even obvious in games... If you carry one of those and want to bring a (assault-) rifle, you'll have to carry it on your back...
Quoteits a soggy bag of smashed assholes that thing, dont even get me started. Half the crap on future weapons is junk, and the makers of that junk pay them to to showcase the weapon in the best light possible. The m32 is junk, the US military wasted every cent they ever spent on it, period.
Thank you, I had my suspicions while watching that show, now I have confirmation, yes! XD
Well i didn't believe it as the almighty truth, but i thought, that they couldn't fake the performannce...
Quote from: "Smokey"true, but that is even obvious in games... If you carry one of those and want to bring a (assault-) rifle, you'll have to carry it on your back...
Yet, sadly I see people in games running around with anti-tank rifles, shooting from the hip. Headshotting people from 10feet.
VIDEOGAMES ARE ALWAYS INCREDIBLY REALISTIC AND BELIEVABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION.
Yeah, lol...
Although i am a sucker for the RPG-7 (not accurate) and Javelin in CoD4... But even the Javelin, albeit a wicked doombringer to tanks, is a bitch to handle (but a dream to aim, be it slow, making you a sitting duck)...
QuoteYou got to remember that the M32 weights twice as much as the service rifle. So the poor guy whos carrying the M32, cant really carry anything else
oh, that didnt stop them from making our guys carry it. one m32, plus 12 rounds, a rifle, plus 180 rounds, body armor and kevlar helmet, with front back and side armor peircing round resistant plates (weighing twice as much as a normal armor plate) 2 canteens and one camel back of water, and a IFAK (individual firstaid kit) and thats without his pack. most guys started just leaving it in the truck.
can't blam 'em...
But i see the russians and germans also made a version of the Mk 19...
QuoteWell i didn't believe it as the almighty truth, but i thought, that they couldn't fake the performannce...
Well, I was referring more specially to this part of the quote:
QuoteHalf the crap on future weapons is junk, and the makers of that junk pay them to to showcase the weapon in the best light possible.
I tend to be a skeptic in general, but when you have a show that tests weapons for their quality and the makers of the weapons are there and the tests
never end in disappointment, I think that's more than enough reason for suspicion...
I still watch the show, but never for serious weapon stuff. More for explosions, really....
If only the javalin actually worked like that... the missil does fly up and come down on the enemy tank busting the weak armor, but the CLUE (the site) works differnent. Normaly a assultman would either sit, or have the javalin mounted on a vehicle, he points the clue at the enemy tank, then using some nobs and such on the grips, adjusts a set of brackets manualy untill only the tanks sillowett is in it, then fires. It tracks the object selected along its flight path and boom. None of that, just get point the clue toward the tank and wait for it to lock on crap.. hell, in CoD4 you didnt even have to be looking at the tank, is tracked through buildings.
one thing I did like about CoD4 tho, was the use of the an-peq2 on the M4s. That no shit looks just like it does when you use them irl, a beam of infered light that you can only see in your NVGs, alowing you to fire your rifle even from the hip and get hits, cus with NVGs on you cant look over your sights. on the other hand, thats one of their errors, once you put the nvgs on you were able to look over your EO tech sight, which you could not do in those goggles..
plus their M4s fired fully auto, which of course, they dont do. not the ones the marines carry anyways... the M249 SAW filled the roll of automatic rifle.
also random fact about the RPG. There is a spot on the round where you can drill a tiny tiny hole that will cause the round to explode in the launcher if you attempt to fire it. At the begining of the war we confenscated a bunch of rounds, drilled the holes and then put them back out into circulation.. made alot of insergants think twice before firing an RPG after enough blew up on them..
Added after 8 minutes: QuoteI tend to be a skeptic in general, but when you have a show that tests weapons for their quality and the makers of the weapons are there and the tests never end in disappointment, I think that's more than enough reason for suspicion...
I still watch the show, but never for serious weapon stuff. More for explosions, really....
eh well once and a while he will show something of use, like the AT-4 with the back blast eliminator allowing you to fire it inside closed spaces. THAT is a wonderful technological upgrade to a weapon I belive is worth its salt. Thats one thing that I always hated about videogames and movies, no one EVER shows the back blast. You stand behind a SMAW, javalin, AT 4, or any other rocketlauncher when it fires, your gonna get cooked. you fire it inside, the over pressure and heat will kill you.
Heh, LOL... And i know about firing a javelin irl... Researched it on the internet, and asked some soldiers...
And that RPG trick is hard... Besides you need to launch tons of 'em to hit a helicopter, like you easily do in some games... (you got stingers for that... Those are cool, launched a dummy rocket from one...)
Well, I would say the show showcases some good ideas that sound good in theory, but how much of the stuff they show actually works as good as they do on the show?
Well, i didn't see a weapon blow up in his face, so that's good... :D
Taser, do want. <3
Yeah, fun stuff.... We made them out of electrical fly swatters... :D
guns in general? too many topics to choose from, so many things to say...
I guess ill list my fav guns.
Pistols:
1911 MEU SOC
Beretta M92
CZ-75B, IPSC, SP-01
Sig p229
Cz-100
MK23
Rifles (in general):
G3a3
G36c
M24
SCAR H, L
Magpul Masada
hk416
Sub-machineguns:
mp5 series
fn p90
MP9 / Steyr TMP
Kriss
My opinion on different Calibers:
There's a gun for every situation, and there's a bullet for every situation. Some work better than others, and others dont.
....thompson submachine gun.
Yeah, i liked that one too, liked it less when i saw an SAS officer fire it at a target...
He emptied a whole drum magazine (like they do in hollywood, spray 'n pray), but only 1 or 2 bullets actually hit their target...
Added after 11 minutes:
there's one iconic Gun i do like, really like, and want to have some day (or at least have fun with ^_^);
The MG42 universal machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG42)gun...
Now there's a flawed weapon that was deadly and terrifying...