It seems that in an American School a teacher confiscated Linux Distro installing CDs because she assumes that it could not exist really any open source/free software... ;013 ;018
She also adviced the kid to contact Microsoft to obtain ORIGINAL SOFTWARE... ;015 ;027 ;036 ;hi ;046 ;061 ;062 ;209 ;221
Baka! ;014
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
WARNING: ;022
C-Chan, as you are a true paladin advocate and evangelist of Open Source Software, please do no read this HORROR STORY... ;025
I hope it is a fake story, or else people are really ignorant of laws and computer science and true darn stupid nowadays... ;026
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq71/shruiken77/1225346842329.jpg)
Quote from: "Raffaele the Amigan"American School
I found your problem.
I must say, this is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read. It's like when I discovered that Firefox is banned in some schools, and the teachers tell the kids to use Internet Explorer instead for similar reasons.
*sadness*
Oh, America. Oh, the irony.
In my school district, I would probably get suspended or expelled If I tried to boot one of the schools computers with a Linux LiveCD, probably because I could screw with necessary system files and such, and possibly remove some of the severe curtailments imposed on us.
Some of our computers have Firefox 2 on them, mostly the Mac laptops that the school has, but on the Windows machines, usually Firefox can't make a connection to even the school's webpage, which is on the internal network of the district, so we're forced to use IE7, which is at least better than IE6.
I have handed out a LiveCD of Puppy Linux to one of my friends, so he could subvert some of the password stuff his parents imposed on his family's machine.
Personaly, I think schools have every right to dictate whats on their machines. Hell, every school I went to didnt allow you to even change the screen saver settings, let alone boot a differnt OS. If you want to use freeware, use it at home.
That said, though, booting a LiveCD doesn't change or put anything on the machine...
Schools computers, schools rules. Plus, if a kid has a linux disc on LiveCD, chances are they arn't going to learn anything in a highschool computer class anyways.
You mean, there's nothing left for them to learn, more likely...
yes. thats exactly what I mean [/sarcasum]
its the same concept as when I took a cartooning class in highschool, they taught the basics which I already knew. If a kid knows where to get freeware, how to make liveCDs, boot differnt OSes, etc, then the basics that a HS class are going to teach are well below their skill and they are there wasting time.
regarding the original article, I'm not at all surprised. The generation that hasn't lived with computers until the latter half of their lives still is around; it's impossible to expect all of them to know what we all know about the tech world.
And even with the younger people, this ignorance is unsurprising. I live in a world of undergraduate engineers, so most of us have the basics down at least, but if I go to, say the liberal arts guys, I may get like, a 50/50 chance of getting some person that knows the basics of computer stuff. Maybe even less than 50/50.
To the credit of the teacher, she was open minded enough to learn from the blogger, it seems.
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html
And to the credit of the blogger, he apologized for the crazy angry mob that resulted, and he didn't reveal any personal info.
Thank heavens! I knew there had to be another side to that story. It would have been truely horrific if the teacher had been smothering FOSS intentionally.
Quote from: "Captain-sama"Personaly, I think schools have every right to dictate whats on their machines. Hell, every school I went to didnt allow you to even change the screen saver settings, let alone boot a differnt OS. If you want to use freeware, use it at home.
I agree wholeheartedly, but that was not the issue of the story. The kid was showing off Compiz-fusion on his own laptop and handing out LiveCD's inbetween classes. I believe that inhibiting software distribution is inherantly wrong, and so I am ever so glad it was not what it initially appeared to be.
QuoteIf a kid knows where to get freeware, how to make liveCDs, boot differnt OSes, etc, then the basics that a HS class are going to teach are well below their skill.
Thus do the "restrictions" come to actual use, ne? You would be amazed how much the IT people will tell you when you only barely mess up a MiTM attack. ^.^
after reading the responce article posted by sleepy-D I still support her position. A bunch of giggling kids around a laptop with one kid handing out discs to everyone... Yeah god knows what that actually was. I would rather a teacher take the safe rout and make sure the kid wasnt distributing porn or mal ware then assume he is giving away free ware. Im sure there would have been just as bad, if not worse reprecusions on her if there had been such things on there and she had done nothing.
And the reaction from the freeware community makes me sick as well. For people who preach about the "evils" of microsoft there seems to be an awfull lot of them that are willing to destroy someones life over one choice.
QuoteIt seems that in an American School a teacher confiscated Linux Distro installing CDs because she assumes that it could not exist really any open source/free software...
She also adviced the kid to contact Microsoft to obtain ORIGINAL SOFTWARE...
Baka!
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
Gyah, what a dimwit. I dunno if I should be shocked or amused. XD
Not allowing students to install any software or modify anything on the school computers is understandable, mainly for reasons of security (as the Captain stated), but confiscating those Linux discs on the other hand, was pretty stupid because distributing it for free is 100% legal!
She didnt know what was on them, and from what I undersand, the kid got them back after class. He could still distribute them, just not durring class time.
What always amazes me is how people jump down others throats about not knowing something about computers.
QuoteGyah, what a dimwit. I dunno if I should be shocked or amused. XD
Case in point.
Really now, name calling? Acting shocked? Why? Because she doesnt know as much as you, or the internet/computer community you belong to? Let me ask you this... I dont know the differnece between linuxes, the preticulars about licencing, hell I dont even know how to code a website. Am I a dimwit? No. I a simply less knowlageable then you on a preticular subject.
What if we were talking guns instead. I garuntee I know more then you. Specs, calibers, use, tactics, laws and liability, legality of one weapon vs another. Its more nitch then say computers, but computers are a pretty broad subject. I still wouldnt feel the need to laugh at you, nor feel shocked or ammused if I handed you an m82-A3 and you didnt know how to assemble it or load it.
Or how about art? Would you ridicule someone that didnt know much about drawing because they know more then you?
One of the reasons Ive never bothered or cared to learn about opensource programs or freeware OS's is because I normaly have to deal with elitists that, as the the raction to that article showed, are akin to religious zelots.
"Death to those who insult islam!"
"Give us the name of the teacher that took the linux discs!"
Seriously people. If it had been a freeware game she had taken Im sure it wouldnt have been such a huge deal, but no, she took OSs discs and that hurts your holy war on microsoft.
To sum up everything I just said
LEARN TO BE TOLLERANT PEOPLE
QuoteLEARN TO BE TOLLERANT PEOPLE
Take it from the lulzmaker; Learn to be tolerant, while still managing to make fun of others. CONSTANTLY.
FOR THE LULZ, AND THE WINNAGE.
>:3
I was surprised by the article because I thought that everybody who knows about computers these days knew of free/open source software because of its quickly rising popularity -__-;
I think thats a pretty big assumption. I had heard of linux as a kid, but I knew nothing about it exept that it was used by this bitter old man who had some kind of indescriminate hate for microsoft. Hell, up until I joined this forum I still didnt know exactly what it was, and even now I couldnt really tell you anything about it.
Quote from: "Aurora Borealis"I was surprised by the article because I thought that everybody who knows about computers these days knew of free/open source software because of its quickly rising popularity -__-;
well, the teacher herself said that she learned more about computers in the past few days than in the past few years. So I think it's safe to say that she didn't really know much about computers.
I guess it depends on what you consider "knowledgeable"
For most people, just knowing how to work the latest windows OS and office is suffice to be "knowledgeable" about computers. For most of us here at OSC, the bar is...... well, a bit higher than that. haha
so the teacher was a bit ignorant. Yeah, it could be a bit aggravating for those immersed in the tech world, but a little patience and a bit of understanding would help alleviate tensions. The captain already expounded on this point earlier, so I'll leave it at that
Quote from: "Captain-sama"I would rather a teacher take the safe rout and make sure the kid wasnt distributing porn or mal ware then assume he is giving away free ware.
I would be inclined agree with you except for a few discrepancies. A) She confidently identified the content and origin of the disks, as evidenced by her email to Helios:
Quote from: "Karen"I saw he was giving a demonstration of some sort. The student was showing the ability of the laptop and handing out Linux disks (Emphasis added).
Effectively ruling out precaution as necessary and B) confiscation of student-owned items is an invasion of privacy and is to be taken only under suspicion of rule-breaking. As self-admitted by Karen, the suspicion was the, albeit faulty, assumption that "No software is free" which can only be upheld by a mentality of "I cannot conceive of it, therefore it cannot exist" which is exactly the opposite of the tolerance you so vehemently argued for.
Quote from: "Captain-sama"Really now, name calling? Acting shocked? Why? Because she doesnt know as much as you, or the internet/computer community you belong to?
Name Calling? Human. Shocked? Absolutely. Because of ignorance? Hardly. Ignorance is not shocking; we deal with it every day. We are shocked because
she threatened legal action against a program designed to help disadvantaged children on a
Xenophobic principle which she did not question enough to preform basic research upon.
That is why we are shocked.
Ignorance is vexing, Baseless attacks are shocking.
Quote from: "Captain-sama"Seriously people. If it had been a freeware game she had taken Im sure it wouldnt have been such a huge deal, but no, she took OSs discs and that hurts your holy war on microsoft.
If she had contacted the game developers and threatened legal action, I would not be surprised to find a similar reaction.
With all due respect, I find your predispositioned categorization and quick, dismissive conclusions against the open source community at large petty and discourteous.
QuoteAnd the reaction from the freeware community makes me sick as well. For people who preach about the "evils" of microsoft there seems to be an awfull lot of them that are willing to destroy someones life over one choice.
The unfortunate truth is that there is no justification for those people's reactions. The level of zealotry and mindless mob mentality is exactly the mindset they proclaim to be fighting so hard against. It is truly sickening to see them return the self-same cruelty they are reacting against.
Though nothing can be said to excuse them, I must point out that it is consistent with human nature. The religiously prosecuted protestants who fled to the new world were just as religiously intolerant (if not more so) than the very place they had fled.
The only argument I can offer is that of "The ones who know the least, know it the loudest." In parallel, the KKK is a terrifying organization which commits atrocities, and yet to say that all white people are racial extremists is a gross and unthinkable generalization. Simply because the open source community is not as visible as the white race may be, makes it no less a vast and unjust oversimplification to judge the entire community on the stupidity of the few
Quote from: "sleepyD-san"but a little patience and a bit of understanding would help alleviate tensions.
You will, I hope, forgive me for the seemingly snide remark, but if occurs to me that fifteen minutes of actual research on the part of the teacher
before she threatened legal action would have avoided the whole mishap, ne?
Quote from: "Tsubashi"
Quote from: "sleepyD-san"but a little patience and a bit of understanding would help alleviate tensions.
You will, I hope, forgive me for the seemingly snide remark, but if occurs to me that fifteen minutes of actual research on the part of the teacher before she threatened legal action would have avoided the whole mishap, ne?
ah, touché.
I don't mind remarks like that. It's not like you're insulting my very being or anything. haha
Still, she couldn't have foreseen this mess when she made that call. If she did, I'm sure she really would have done that few minutes of research.
and why do I have this feeling that things are being blown way out of proportion here? ^^;
Quoteand why do I have this feeling that things are being blown way out of proportion here? ^^;
Indeed they are. Her actions, wrong or right are insignificant in the big picture, yet there are people offering a $1000 for her name so they can publicly crucify her. Why? Because she offended their "ideals," their way of thinking. Did she really hurt their movment in the long run? No, and a little bit of polite conversation, maybe an email with links and logical debate on the subject, giving her direct access to the information and research that would enlighten her would have been more appropriate.
You know what bugs me the most about all of this? Ken Starks paranoid conclusions that she did it the help propogate microsoft.
"Then again, being a good NEA member, you would spout the Union line. Microsoft has pumped tens of millions of dollars into your union. Of course you are going to "recommend" Microsoft Windows". To do otherwise would probably get you reprimanded at the least and fired at the worst. You are only doing what you've been instructed to do.
You've been trained well."
Srsly? He thinks thats the reason for her actions? To spout the union line? To keep her job?
As much as Mr. Starks does what he does to enlighten and help kids, she does what she does for the kids as well. Her desicion, was to HELP the kids. Argue the point of wether she actually helped the kids or not, I dont care really, but her motivation was protection. Based on what she knew at the time, right or wrong, she made the desicion she thought was to protect the kids in her charge.
"The ones who know the least, know it the loudest." This is very very true. Unfortunatly, those people are also your face to the public. And to write off the behavior as "human" and therefor unavoidable is to allow it to happen.
Then again, "human" behavior is what we rely on for this world to function, is it not?
"Human" acting based on emotions, rather than logic.
"Human" acting based on a hunch, rather than experience.
"Human" success when failure was the only possible outcome.
and so very often, "Human" failure whereas no possibility of failure should be, could be present.
And out of these factors, we prophesize upon the world of tomorrow, and value it as much as money, or even more.
It is amusing how valuable this "human" behavior you write off as something negative is to the consensus of your species, no?
Gah, shitstorm... must... avoid... compulsion... to... flame.
I really probably shouldn't say anything, at this point any statement might just compel further argument - no matter how neutral. I will say this much, there's plenty wrong with either side of this story. I would say that the root of the problem was that the kid shouldn't have been doing a demo during classtime - that is, he shouldn't do anything to disrupt class time. Still, while her confiscation of the student's discs was justified, I think she really overstepped her bounds in her e-mail. Believe me, it's great to know there are teachers who care this much about their students, but threatening legal action, srsly?
"I will research this as time allows and I want to assure you, if you are doing anything illegal, I will pursue charges as the law allows."
Why not research before e-mail? Still, coming from a position of ignorance this is kind of expected. Call it a kind of "white guilt", but what truly appalls me about all this is the reaction from the FOSS community. First off, why was there a need to make this public? Couldn't this Starks fellow just given an informative and polite response to her e-mail, instead posting it to his blog? What was the point? This is what I hate about so many bloggers, they get one bad e-mail and it turns into, "Hey, look at how oppressed I am everybody! An oppressor working for 'The Man' sent me a mean e-mail. Let's pwn this n00b for <insert cause here>." Of course, the irony in all this are the comments left on the blog disparaging the teacher for her ignorance and failing to call into question many of the absurd remarks made by the blogger. An example that was already pointed out, was the allegation that the teacher was somehow working for M$ just because she's in a teacher's union.
"Then again, being a good NEA member, you would spout the Union line. Microsoft has pumped tens of millions of dollars into your union. Of course you are going to 'recommend' Microsoft Windows."
What evidence does he have to substantiate his claim that M$ has given the NEA tens of millions of dollars? Not every labor union is the Teamsters, you know.
While it does aggravate and shame me a great deal, this kind of behavior is becoming more and more common in the FOSS community. Yes, this kind of thing can happen with any ideology. Yes, this is more than likely the backlash of the growth within the community, it is still not an excuse for such overreaction. I guess I'm not in any place to judge, there have been a number of times I let myself lose touch with reason and act out mindlessly - many of those times in this forum. Still, can we just can the Serious Business, and get back to posting random messages and reporting/banning porn bots?
Srs.biz = internet.
Well, I guess you've gotta see it that way - he needs to feed his audience what they want (ie, audacity) to draw attention. That's what the bloggers (or many of them) want, in the end. He wants to play the cool guy, he wants to be the one victorious in the end, he wants to be superior to his opponent - and he wants his readers to KNOW that. A man rests well with a clear conscience, but even better with fine self-confidence, no? (Although that's not right in my case, albeit for entirely different reasons, lulz.)
Anyway, srz.biz away, let's-a-go. Elitism isn't funny. Too bad if we let it happen to the FOSS commune as well.
Moo.
Serious Business is the reason I avoid lounging in the ubuntuforums - I only ever go there when I'm having computer trouble.
Funny story, once while I was playing GTA4 using the in-game "internet" I stumbled on a very clever (albeit heavy-handed) parody of a Linux site (eunux.net). So I immediately go to the real internet and do some google searching and searching of the ubuntuforums, to see if any other Linuxers noticed. Sure enough, it meant Serious Business to somebody (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Take_Two_clearly_biased_against_Linux), this guy on digg actually claimed it as evidence of bias on Take Two's part and cited their exclusive DLC deal with M$ as motive - har, tis to laugh. Surprisingly, this guy (http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=804255) on ubuntuforums actually got it, the posters who replied... not so much. Yeah, this all seems a little more unfunny than funny, but you get what I'm saying.
Ubuntu forums - WHY SO SRS? >:3
;014 Baka nowadays...
Why sue kids over Linux? That's like being beaten up just for speaking freely in the public.
Sure, schools have policies, but this is so f***ing harsh and wrong...
And I don't mind using Windows - what the hell, I don't care.
And, this teacher might get in deep doo-doo, because the GPL law specifically said the linux IS to be expressly distributed with NO RESRICTIONS. Which simply meant the kid has the FULL right to do that.
Added after 8 minutes:
On other hand, it's actually illegal to install anything else than what school prescribed, on their computers.
Heaven forbids that if other kids start installed the linux, the table may have been turned against the kid.
poor little fella... ;014
Quote from: "CaptBrenden"
LEARN TO BE TOLERANT PEOPLE
The problem is she's a
teacher in a school where children are taught how to use computers. This is something she
should know before continuing to teach.
Tolerance is fine against the average joe, but teachers have
no excuse none, nada, zip.
Which is why the american school system is so far behind (btw, I went to several, and work for an american school...)
That said, it's not stupidity so much as ignorance, and no she need not be a linux guru, but she should have enough information to ask for a copy (first trick to see if kid is handing out what he says he is) and put that in a machine she has access to, and check it.
I'm American and am very fortunate to go to a public school that is NOT totally f***ed up. Schools like that are far and few in between but still do exist!
Software piracy is so bad these days that I can understand her suspicions towards people giving out any kind of software but she shouldn't have just confiscated it right away. She should have checked kind of it was, to see that Linux distributions can legally be given away for free.
Pirates will rule the internet within 10 years. We seem to be going strong out of me porrrt, yarr!
That's all fine and dandy, but I think this thread ran its course some time ago. Given that it's old news, everyone in favor of a closing?
*raises hand*
Me hands be full, but I raise 'em full o' scimitars and cannonballs, yarr!
^ I'm with NejinOniwa. ^
Nowaday, most hackers are getting better at disowning M$, no matter how fresh. Of course, I'm a ex-hacker - sure, I hate M$, but they're bound to have two choices; Open the Windows, or they would be sailing in the sea filled with pirates. It's bound to happen anyways, like what any of you guys learnt in American history: Tyrant give rise to rebellion, then to war.
Arr, ye matey! Me hand be filled with cannonballs and rums!
ARRRRRGH! CLOSED THREAD AHOOOY!!
*locks*