While reading through the list of OS-tans, I noticed that some beta versions of operating systems (like Windows 97 or Neptune and Odyssey) do have their respective OS-tans, while others, like Chicago - Windows 95 beta - or Whistler - Windows XP beta - do not. Actually what decides which of these beta versions will get an OS-tan and which of these won't? Major difference from the final version? A particular oddity in the beta which is easier to personalize? Or is it just a matter of preference of the artists? I took a look into some of these betas, and that's why I am interested in this question.
Overall, I think it may be a matter of preference, and the beta being significantly different.
With Odyssey and Neptune, they are futuristic-looking OS-tans representing what would be ground-breaking OSes had they been released. They were made around the time of Windows 2000, which was primarily a professional OS, and Odyssey and Neptune were meant to be 2000's home counterpart, bringing the NT line to the home. Where they failed, XP was made.
Windows 97 is confusing. It was the working name for 98 but 97-tan exists anyways. The closest thing to an actual Windows 97 may be 95 OSR 2.5/95C.
The strangeness of Windows 97, even if it's not significantly different from 98 still meant a lot of potential for a quirky character.
I don't think a 95 beta-tan would be needed as a separate character. She's best off as a young 95-tan, training to be the warrior she is.
Well, I admit I took a different approach - checking beta videos, and where it's available, beta sounds - when pondering about this question, but as you are the one who is much more experienced in OS-tans, you have a better sight at the situation.
I barely have any information about 97, that's why I was somewhat confused about it. And as for Chicago - the early builds of it looked like as some sort of mix between 3.1 and 95, from what I read. After rethinking it, I have to agree with you, I went a bit overboard with my theories.
Odyssey/Neptune are unreleased OSes of their own with their own code trees, etc, which justify a -tan of their own.
Win97 is an enigma in many ways, but I believe it's due to the development cycle of 98: Most likely, betas/dev builds before the name change (as it was first known as Win97) are interpreted as the source of 97-tan, while the code trees past that point are 98-tan only.
As for Beta-tans in general, seconding what Aurora said, albeit with possible storyline-purpose variations; 95 and Visbou may have been training, while 2k was brought up strictly and with high expectations from both MS and her mother(s? With Inu-T and all?) seeing as they were the first NT on the stage. XP, spoiled by the success of 2k, was probably raised pretty carefree (alongside Homeko who got to do pretty much whatever she wanted) and so on. Strictly speaking, Nanami (or whatever 7-tan we use) should have a lot of duality personality-wise, seeing as she's both supposed to be user-appealing and good for casual use but ALSO carries the enormous responsibility of covering up for the Vistans' failure, resulting in a very, very intriguing character indeed.
Ohfuckit, I'm ranting again.
But Chicago and Whistler weren't beta releases! They were codenames for Win95 and XP while they were in development. Neptune and Odyssey are beta OSes, though, since they were released for testing or evaluation or whatever, but never became commercial Windows releases.
BTW, I think of betas as their respective OS-tans in their youth/in training. Except for those OSes that never got past their beta stages.
Quote from: "Bella"But Chicago and Whistler weren't beta releases! They were codenames for Win95 and XP while they were in development.
Actually, while Chicago was the codename for Windows 95, but it was also used for the first few betas. This link gives some information about one of the earlier builds
http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58.html
As I know, there are earlier builds of XP which referred to themeselves as Whistler.
Ah yes, I remember reading about that before. Until then, I didn't realize that betas could be so different from the final! I still see Chicago being a young 95-tan in training though.
As for the storylines, 95 and NT were trained from birth to be warriors and war lords to conquer the market, but after the war was over, they settled down to a calmer life, with NT having daughters and 95 being a big sister figure. Since then, the Windows-tans have enjoyed a long period of peace and prosperity.
I agree that 2K-tan would be raised with high expectations, but still had time for play with her family and live a mostly carefree childhood. (some good pictures that'd illustrate this:)
(http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/albums/os-tans/group/normal_1114333159180.jpg)
(http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/albums/os-tans/group/normal_tw-95_and_sisters.jpg)
But for 2K, work would come first for her, and the efforts paid off for her, being regarded as the most reliable of the Windows-tans, and another big sister-type revered by the family.
Definitely agree with the XP-tans being rather spoiled in their childhood, especially Homeko. XP Pro, being geared towards business and education I'd imagine would have some 2K-tan qualities... when not distracted by food. ^^;
Windows 7-tan has a great amount of potential for her character, and I like your idea for her upbringing, but it's a shame that most 7-tans don't have much character depth to them. :(
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BTW, unreleased OS-tans bring up another question: How can some of them still be alive if they don't have a userbase?
Or do they? IIRC, there had been at least one OSC member some time ago who used Neptune. Could be that there really are underground userbases for Odyssey and Neptune so they don't fade into complete obscurity!
it's like the longhorn/vista and vienna/7 debate. i think it's more of a storyline thing, or maybe they just never recieved beta-tans.
i used the name "chicago (chi-sama)" for 95 in my comic; i think of it as an alternate name for her.
pretty cool about the underground releases. :3 ik i'd like to try.
i've thought of 95 like an aunt to them in a way. ^^;
IIRC, we agreed some time ago that beta OS-tans were more-or-less undead. At least for Odyssey and Neptune....
there are os-es w/ zero userbase, but, for storyline purposes, are alive.
odyessy/neptune are fairly recent too, so it makes sense that they would be "alive", per se...
Quote from: "Aurora Borealis"Ah yes, I remember reading about that before. Until then, I didn't realize that betas could be so different from the final! I still see Chicago being a young 95-tan in training though.
It can work, even though in my mind, somehow the mix of 3.1-tan and 95-tan is imagined, as said beta has elements which remind to both. Probably it's indeed a younger 95-tan, but with a bokken instead of her sword and with an outfit somewhat resembling 3.1-tan's one? It's possible that she received her kimono and sword after her training (from when the OS started to refer itself as Windows 95), maybe?
Quote from: "Aurora Borealis"
BTW, unreleased OS-tans bring up another question: How can some of them still be alive if they don't have a userbase?
Or do they? IIRC, there had been at least one OSC member some time ago who used Neptune. Could be that there really are underground userbases for Odyssey and Neptune so they don't fade into complete obscurity!
Some of the beta OS-es (like particular versions of Chicago, as I heard) can be used by Virtual PC 2007, so I believe it's not impossible that curious people who are interested in these unreleased / beta versions and try them out can keep them alive. They are not very well known, that's true, but they are not forgotten completely.
VPC is worse than VMWare or other alternatives in terms of compatibility as far as I've heard, too, so more might be doable.
I haven't tried either, I just read about Virtual PC in the description of a video about Chicago, that's why I mentioned this possibility. At least there is the chance to give all these betas a try.
i like the image of young 95 in training, maybe using a kendo sword. can't picture a loli-95, unless it's another cosplay pic.
I may be wrong , but isn't the sword used for kendo (I think that one is called shinai) is a bamboo sword, while the bokken is the wooden sword? I would prefer Chicago-tan/younger 95-tan using the bokken because that one was used historically for the training of warriors. 95-tan is a warrior of sort, after all. And I don't think it should be loli-aged ~ something like a teenager should work. And as 95-tan's outfit is based on a wallpaper from the full version, Chicago-tan/younger 95-tan could not have that clothing ~ which would reinforce my suggestion of her having a clothing more resembling to 3.1 and getting her well-known outfit later.
mmmmmmmmmmmmm
i understand the sword, but putting her in a 3.1 dress just makes me think of her in her pj's. :\
I did not exactly mean the same as 3.1's outfit. I actually imagined something more traditional, but - as Chicago's GUI was quite similar to 3.1 in some points - using 3.1's color scheme for the clothing?
http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/displayimage.php?album=46&pos=1
I did mean something like on that picture.
I like what the design would be like if Chicago-tan was like that. But I like how everything is right now but I would like to see a story telling of the OS wars or something. that would be golden.
This image is supposed to be a young 95-tan, isn't it?
http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=42
That could be used as a basis, couldn't it?
Actually, I can imagine a progression, based on these information. How about:
Chicago-tan (specifically, the 58s or the 73g build) -> teenage 95-tan with a bokken and the 3.1-colored traditional outfit.
Build 189 (the first which called itself Windows 95) -> wouldn't get its own -tan, but appearance-wise, it would look like that young 95-tan pic
And after that would appear our beloved (final) 95-tan.
I believe it would show pretty well the progression from the beta to the final version. Maybe a similar stuff could be done with Whistler, too?
There are lots of "child mode" pics of Saseko and the others, this essentially is what Whistler was.
i agree with nejin on that one, but like the idea of the teenage 95 in the 3.1 kimono. it's still a little weird that 95 would have 3.1's colour scheme.....unless we think of the kimono as a hand-me-down from big sis 3.1. :3
Quote from: "Chocofreak13"i agree with nejin on that one, but like the idea of the teenage 95 in the 3.1 kimono. it's still a little weird that 95 would have 3.1's colour scheme.....unless we think of the kimono as a hand-me-down from big sis 3.1. :3
Why not? After all, I see it completely possible that as 95 is the successor of 3.1 that she started by sharing the big sis' outfit, to get her own later.
As for the "Young Saseko = Whistler" theory, while it is simple and understandable, but I feel somewhat inconsistent that 97-tan (=Windows Memphis, right?) has a look which a bit similar to the previous one in terms of color and stuff, while Whistler would be just a younger XP-tan. Or am I over complicating this whole beta deal?
Yes. Yes, you are. Older beta-tans that exist can be left and explained somehow, but we don't NEED to adapt later parts to it just because. Simplicity is just as important for stories as complexity is, and the most important part of complexity is knowing your restrictions.
I believe I understand what are you going to tell with this, but actually, we already have quite a number of cases where we have several -tans which are almost the same (following the same pattern, do we really need OSR 2.1-tan and OSR 2.5-tan? They were service releases, not much different than Service Packs - and we don't have different -tans for XP's various Service Packs either) or -tans for OS-es which never ever got released. Aren't these against those restrictions too?
With OSR 2.5-tan, she was created as a minor character in an obscure OS-tan comic, looking like a cross between 95-tan and 98-tan [the last version of 95 used the same IE version as 98]. She happened to gain some popularity and took on a backstory and personality of her own.
OSR 2.1-tan was at first only mentioned in that same comic, and I planned to leave her existence at that, but being the first Windows version to introduce USB --and not very well at that--, I thought she had potential as a character, being an inventor who failed and ran away from home to live as a hermit.
Both OSes had some sort of quirk that made them easily personifiable and took on their own characterizations. If these 'service pack' characters like the OSR 2.x-tans are going to be made, they need to be distinct characters in their own right, which can be a challenge.
With the XP service packs, I can't distinguish between them at all, and it wouldn't be worth it to make separate characters of them. :-/
Well, I have no details on the OSR's, but what I'm trying to say is leave what we have already, but make no new -tans of things that aren't necessary - such as service/security packs, dev builds/betas, and so on. If uncertainties are abound, step up and pose the question and the board of authors/directors/creators/fags will come together and solve the problem. So to speak.
Quote from: "NejinOniwa"Well, I have no details on the OSR's, but what I'm trying to say is leave what we have already, but make no new -tans of things that aren't necessary - such as service/security packs, dev builds/betas, and so on. If uncertainties are abound, step up and pose the question and the board of authors/directors/creators/fags will come together and solve the problem. So to speak.
This. I second it.
xp has a different outfit for sp2, but that's all i know, and i'm referencing that from an obscure magical girl style background (and technically the compainion was the service pack).
2k got a shield and sword for sp4, but once again, refrencing obscure pic.
sometimes, it's better to just let things go as they are. we're not sure why 97-tan exists, but she does.
and as for later releases, there are two NT'S, and a windows 3.2. not to mention all the mac-nekotans. sometimes characters exist. there is nothing wrong wit this.
if it really bothers you, make up a tan. :3
Quote from: "K"if it really bothers you, make up a tan. :3
Anyone else think that would make an awesome motto for OSC?
More like this:
Quote from: "Motto"/OSC/ - We make shit up.
Quote from: "Aurora Borealis"
Both OSes had some sort of quirk that made them easily personifiable and took on their own characterizations. If these 'service pack' characters like the OSR 2.x-tans are going to be made, they need to be distinct characters in their own right, which can be a challenge.
With the XP service packs, I can't distinguish between them at all, and it wouldn't be worth it to make separate characters of them. :-/
Quote from: "Chocofreak13"
sometimes, it's better to just let things go as they are. we're not sure why 97-tan exists, but she does.
and as for later releases, there are two NT'S, and a windows 3.2. not to mention all the mac-nekotans. sometimes characters exist. there is nothing wrong wit this.
if it really bothers you, make up a tan. :3
My point was exactly that OSR 2.1- and OSR 2.5-tans aren't that different from the original 95-tan, and it makes them more like one shot characters. They are more like extensions for the original, and hence I am somewhat confused that why they are characters on their own. That's why I compared them to Service Packs, which are just minor additions, not enough to make their own characters - they can be represented by extra equipment or something like that. As for 97-tan, I feel her a bit rushed, too. Somehow she lacks the character importance. And as Windows 3.2 is basically Windows 3.1
in Chinese, just a language difference, nothing more, nothing less.
And actually, I came up with a background story for Chicago-tan:
Back then, 3.1-tan had two candidates as the successor, Chicago-tan and 95-tan. After a period of training and rivalry, it was found out that 95-tan is the more suitable one
(referring to the time when the beta started to refer itself as Windows 95, dropping the Chicago codename). As Chicago-tan lost 3.1-tan's favor, she left the family, and started her own journey as a ronin. She had one thing in her mind - training herself so she can gain the trust of 3.1-tan again by becoming better than 95-tan. Unfortunately, times have passed, and she was unaware of that. Few people have seen her since that
(referring to the people who found out the OS and tried out in one way or another), but she did not stay anywhere for long.
Appearance-wise, I keep the earlier mentioned younger-looking 95-tan in a traditional 3.1-tan colored oufit and with a bokken. She wears her hair in a ponytail.
I'd advise you to refrain from making more of the stuff that we already seem to agree on is excessive...
BUT THEY'RE THE SAME OS
95 EVOLVED FROM CHICAGO LIKE AN ESPEON FROM AN EEVEE
O_______O;
Quote from: "NejinOniwa"More like this:
Quote from: "Motto"/OSC/ - We make shit up.
if this becomes out motto, i have our theme song. ^^;
Quote from: "Nejin"I'd advise you to refrain from making more of the stuff that we already seem to agree on is excessive...
True.
Quote from: "Kari"BUT THEY'RE THE SAME OS
95 EVOLVED FROM CHICAGO LIKE AN ESPEON FROM AN EEVEE
This is also very true.
Heck, I don't even feel right about making (modern computer) hardware-tans because that opens up such a can of characterization worms. I mean, I probably will but still... D:
To self-quote:
QuoteLess is of course moar, but most importantly, less is less. For story purposes - and for the sake of our readers - this is absolutely vital.
;___; i'm all for diversity. but i think generalization is in order on some things. v____v;
Okay. In that case, topic can be closed, as the original question was answered. Not that we don't have already around 100 OS-tans... I haven't counted them, though. Considering that we started with only a handful of them - we are already on the path of having an OS-tan to pretty much everything ever existed. *points at the full OS-tan list*
Shoggun pah, sheriff.
lockage would be in order.
and yeah(over 9000 tan), but at least we're thorough. :3
Essentially, we all agree on beta OS-tans being the same character as the finalized OS, and with a few exceptions, service pack releases are also the same characters.
However, this thread still has some potential, discussing OS-tans in their beta state, and how much they have changed.
hmm, i suppose so.
we don't see 3.2 much in anything. most of the beta-tans are rather obscure....
Well, beta OS-es themselves are obscure, it does make sense that their OS-tans are obscure too. And if we treat beta OS-tans the same as their final counterpart, then there isn't much to discuss either - in that case, we can consider the beta states as a sort of preparation / training / whatever is fitting for the respective OS-tan, if we want to simplify things, right?
exactly. most things here are a case-by-case basis.
Quote from: "Exa"Well, beta OS-es themselves are obscure, it does make sense that their OS-tans are obscure too. And if we treat beta OS-tans the same as their final counterpart, then there isn't much to discuss either - in that case, we can consider the beta states as a sort of preparation / training / whatever is fitting for the respective OS-tan, if we want to simplify things, right?
Right! Except for those rare, already existent exceptions...
Quote from: "Bella"Right! Except for those rare, already existent exceptions...
Yeah. Exactly that was the thing which puzzled me since the beginning. For me. these exceptions seemed to be a bit rushed, somehow lacking in development. But if we don't need more beta OS-tans, we don't need them. After all, I am just a minor member here with a too creative imagination.
my thinking is that they were created in the massive boss-ruch of OS-tanning in the beginning. EVERYONE wanted to be responsible for a -tan.
This theory makes sense, but weren't most of the OS-tans created by a handful of people? I don't think that many people contributed to the creation back then. On the other hand, you are right - I have to admit that I wanted to be useful to the community by this addition, and I acted before thinking it over, that's right.
The discussion of beta OS-tans inspired me to draw this:
(http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/albums/userpics/10307/normal_NTand95_1993bw.jpg)
It's NT-tan and 95-tan, circa 1993.
95-tan's outfit is based off a reference picture from earlier in the thread, and her outfit will be in purple too, matching 3.1-tan, back when she was known as Chicago.
adorable! ^^
that's ok exa. this is a lively debate. i like it, even if i didn't agree with the initial topic. ^^
this might sound weird, but I always viewed beta Os-Tan as younger versions of the final design being taught by the other OS-Tans and NT as a teacher. for linux, I see them being like a community box of suggestions and the OS-tan reading them. I can babble on about my crazy views of OS-Tans, but I don't want to wait your time.
Quote from: "Alex_Reetz"this might sound weird, but I always viewed beta Os-Tan as younger versions of the final design being taught by the other OS-Tans and NT as a teacher. for linux, I see them being like a community box of suggestions and the OS-tan reading them. I can babble on about my crazy views of OS-Tans, but I don't want to wait your time.
Yep, that's how I see things.
The NT-based Windows-tans were taught by NT-sama, the OSX sisters were taught by Rhapsody and NeXTSTEP(?), the 9x Windows-tans... dunno... maybe 3.1-tan and 95-tan?
And of course, Linux-tan's teacher was Minix-sensei (though at a point she did go out on her own...)
And that's a lovely drawing, Aurora-san. :D
Yep, opinions differ, that's what makes the whole conversation interesting.
And I do love this picture a lot! Practically it makes the general idea useful without clogged by too many -tans. Thanks a lot for this image, Aurora! ^^
^^ differing opinions make for lovely (and lively) conversation.
Quote from: "Alex_Reetz"this might sound weird, but I always viewed beta Os-Tan as younger versions of the final design being taught by the other OS-Tans and NT as a teacher. for linux, I see them being like a community box of suggestions and the OS-tan reading them. I can babble on about my crazy views of OS-Tans, but I don't want to wait your time.
Quote from: "Bella"
Yep, that's how I see things.
The NT-based Windows-tans were taught by NT-sama, the OSX sisters were taught by Rhapsody and NeXTSTEP(?), the 9x Windows-tans... dunno... maybe 3.1-tan and 95-tan?
And of course, Linux-tan's teacher was Minix-sensei (though at a point she did go out on her own...)
I agree with both of you. I think NeXTSTEP would have taught the OSX-tans some things, as she is their godmother, and also their aunt or something, that is if she's Rhapsody's older sister.
I could also see Mac OS8 and OS9 teaching the OSX's some things, particularly carrying on the ideals of simplicity and user-friendliness.
The Classic-tans were at first taught by Apple II, but were on their own by '93.
The 9x Windows-tans may have been taught by both NT and 95, the two mother figures of the family, even though 95 is simply the big sister of the 9x-tans. A lot of fanarts show NT and 95 looking after each other's daughters/younger sisters respectively.
NT being older, may have been 95's mentor as the two trained together.
1.0, 2.0 and 3.1 may have been taught by Xenix, or maybe MSDOS.
Quote
And that's a lovely drawing, Aurora-san. :D
Thanks! :D
Quote from: "Exa"Yep, opinions differ, that's what makes the whole conversation interesting.
And I do love this picture a lot! Practically it makes the general idea useful without clogged by too many -tans. Thanks a lot for this image, Aurora! ^^
I like this conversation, and the different viewpoints, but it's good we've come to some agreements, that we don't need any more separate service pack characters, and that the beta releases for almost all OSes can be the same character as the final.
Glad you like it! :)
Here's the finished version:
(http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/albums/userpics/10307/normal_NTand95_1993.jpg)
http://ostan-collections.net/imeeji/displayimage.php?pos=-8368
Indeed. It looks like the community successfully managed to reach a conclusion in this topic. Thank you for all the people who contributed in this thread, it was really helpful to me. And the finished picture just added the final touch for the already pretty one, ehehe~
this was a good way to wrap things up. ^^
are we saying we should lock the topic, since there doesn't seem to be much else to discuss?