Started by VolareVia, March 28, 2019, 03:21:30 pm
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Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmI love the idea of the vaporwave faction! It's a great idea for OSes from the 1980's and 90's who can't bring themselves to completely retire, or don't think the lifestyle of the Vintage Federation would work well for them. I'm still not sure about 95 being the founder, though there was a future story idea about the rival OSes of the 90's eventually retiring and possibly putting their pasts aside, but I like this faction.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmThe 3.14 Society has a modern but retro vibe to it. I was surprised to see RISC OS being part of it, but if she left the ASC, is the ASC still around in the present day or did it eventually disband?
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmI hadn't given any thought to System 7.5 or the Mac Clones, because I didn't know how to characterize them, and had been unsure if 7.5 was going to be more than a one-shot character. A/UX and Newton were known to be evicted from the House of Mac by the higher-ups to cut costs.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmI can't believe I only found out today that the SCO Group got sued and went bankrupt years ago. Is it safe to assume that SCO Unix and any allies she had would've been banished from the LUC after the lawsuit?
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 03:46:59 pmThe other faction changes are from events I didn't know about before, but I'll be happy to discuss them while learning more about them!
Quote from: undefinedI can't believe I only found out today that the SCO Group got sued and went bankrupt years ago. Is it safe to assume that SCO Unix and any allies she had would've been banished from the LUC after the lawsuit?Definitely. If there are allies, they might have tried to form their own dynasty ala the User Space Gang, but be the inverse, actively rejecting Open Sourcery.If not, SCO Unix might not be here today.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmAfter the bankruptcy, SCO Unix-tan and UnixWare-tan were likely banished from the Linux Unix Consortium, because they lost a lot of their wealth and power and were now powerless against the many high-ranking Linuxes and Unixes in the faction that disliked them, but they could've found success of their own afterwards. Both OSes are currently maintained, and older versions of OpenServer are still widely used in point of sales systems, particularly in food service, so I interpret their present day situation as them running a successful restaurant. It could be a pizzeria in reference to Pizza Hut's Pizza Net system that was based off of OpenServer 5!
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmThey might be wanderers in the present day but band together running the restaurant, but could be a faction of their own, as an inverse to the User Space Gang, rejecting Open Sorcery, and espousing for Unix to be proprietary, if there are enough OSes related to, and would agree with them.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmWithin the Linux Unix Consortium from 2002 - 2004, there would've been an alliance between SuSE Linux-tan, Turbolinux-tan, OpenLinux-tan, and Mandrake/Mandriva-tan in reference to United Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Linux SCO Unix-tan supported this because of OpenLinux-tan being a member, and because of the "An enemy of an enemy is a friend of mine" attitude. This alliance was meant to compete against Red Hat Linux-tan, and to create a unified Linux platform that would avoid the splitting and incompatibilities that plagued the Unix versions.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmGuess how the alliance ended. It fell apart from a lawsuit by SCO!
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmThe United Linux alliance fits in with the Annex Project too, but it was great additional background information I found for long-standing alliances and rivalries within the Linux Unix Consortium.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 06, 2019, 08:53:19 pmWhen reading up about Caldera, because the SCO Group branched off from them, I found that Caldera bought the rights to Digital Research's OSes, including DR-DOS and GEM! Digital Research sold their OSes to Novell, and Caldera bought them from Novell, which is the company that owns SuSE Linux. UnixWare also used to be owned by Novell, before it was bought by SCO!
Quote from: VolareVia on April 06, 2019, 09:13:05 pmI love this idea. I actually might write a story about some OS-tans going to eat there.
Quote from: undefinedThat's probably the biggest question. I mean, I'd imagine that active proprietary Unix-tans would be thinking "oh great, the freakshow decided that I had to be a part of it."
Quote from: undefinedThat's really neat. I'm sure this was a good goal, to unite the platforms. I wonder if it's still-Pfft. I laughed harder than I should have.
Quote from: undefinedI'm sure SCO Unix-tan's relationship with OpenLinux-tan soured a bit after that.Linux politics are certainly interesting.
Quote from: undefinedWonder how the DR-DOS and GEM feel about their Unix family members.Actually, DR-DOS reminds me. In the early to mid 90s, Apple and Novell made a deal to make a version of System 7 for DR-DOS that was called "Star Trek." Given GEM's history with Mac-tans, I wonder how GEM-tan feels about this.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmMost of the other proprietary Unixes wouldn't have been interested in the splinter faction that SCO Unix and UnixWare attempted. If enough of them considered it, then the LUC would've been weakened further. If the proprietary-favoring Unixes all sided with this splinter faction, and many Linuxes left the LUC for their own splinter faction after the systemd controversy, who would be left?
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmThe Star Trek Project was fascinating to read about. There were so many twists and so many additions to OS-tan lore than can be drawn from it!
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmDuring DR-DOS-tan's time with Caldera, she and OpenLinux-tan would've spent a lot of time working together, and she would've seen Windows 95-tan as a rival. This rivalry was intense as Caldera sued Microsoft over not allowing Windows 95 to run any DOS version other than MS-DOS.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmGEM-tan would have complicated attitudes towards this, but she still would be angry over the lawsuit from Apple that caused GEM 2 and 3 to be downgrades from 1.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmWhile Novell owned GEM, they attempted to develop GEM to keep competing against Windows, but that was canceled because Novell feared a lawsuit from Apple over it. On second thought, GEM-tan would've been scared and angry than anything else, fearing that she was going to be punished for trying to improve herself.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmThis article, also from Low End Mac (http://lowendmac.com/2006/growing-apple-with-the-macintosh-the-sculley-years/) briefly mentions that GEM was more popular than Windows 1.0, but Windows 2.0 was more successful and a viable competitor. Apple sued Microsoft in March 1988 over Windows 2.0's interface, though Apple sued Digital Research over GEM 1's interface earlier.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmCompletely branching off, but another thing I found fascinating in it is how Apple and Apollo Computers almost had a deal. Apollo was struggling compete against Sun, and wanted a deal to for their Domain/OS to be sold on Apple-branded workstations. The Mac software that was ported to Domain/OS ran very well, but the agreement was suddenly canceled by Apple. Apollo got bought out by HP after the deal fell through. How does all of this translate into OS-tan lore?
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmWithin Apple, a product similar to the Star Trek Project was released. The Macintosh Application Environment allowed Solaris and HP-UX workstations to run classic Mac OS applications. The version of DR-DOS developed by Novell during the Star Trek Project had a lot of enhancements incorporated from the project.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 08, 2019, 11:33:55 pmExecutor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executor_(software) ) was designed during this project for Intel hardware to emulates the Mac hardware and either System 6.0.7 or 7.0. A Linux version has also been designed and has been tested on several distributions. There are also versions for Windows, MS-DOS, and NeXTSTEP. System 7 was central to the Star Trek Project, but the System 6 involvement with the Executor emulator was also key in porting more classic Mac software to the Intel platform, because of the programs that work with System 6, but not System 7.
Quote from: VolareVia on April 09, 2019, 09:37:55 amExactly. Thankfully (for the LUC) no one likes them anyways, so when they get kicked out, they might have tried this for like five seconds until they realized they'd be better off just serving pizza
Quote from: undefinedwhich they do and are doing successfully. Revenge is less appealing when you're able to make a living and then some off of your own business.
Quote from: undefinedIndeed! When I first heard about this, I wondered what the implications would be for the lore!
Quote from: undefinedWasn't this Windows 3.1? Regardless, I'm sure they're rivals to both. Would this mean that GEM-tan would have left Novell at the time?
Quote from: undefinedOr maybe that she just gave up and left?
Quote from: undefinedI think the lawsuits against Windows and GEM lead to the Mac-tans, and thus the then-current Apple, to be seen as highly aggressive, which might backfire when they try to establish other relationships.
QuoteSpeaking of failure to establish other relationships, this could be the start of peaceful talks gone awry due more to incompetence than aggression, based on what little I can scrape together on when Apollo got bought out, something that'd be a staple in the System 7.x era. I'd imagine that Domain/OS-tan feels betrayed by the Mac-tans, and likely loathes them in the present day for what they did to her. Of course, as I said, it was due to Apple being more stupid than anything.Honestly, a lot of mid-90s Apple's failures boil down to getting distracted by shiny thing X and having a hard time getting some alliance with Y down for more than a year, and often both are connected.
QuoteInteresting. What are the nature of these enhancements? Would these enhancements have made DR-DOS-tan more like a Unix-tan like the OSes mentioned above?
QuoteMaybe System 6-tan didn't want to work with her then bitter internal rival, System 7-tan, so Apple and Novell felt a need to use an emulator to help get over the hurdle of System 6?
QuoteWould there be a Star Trek-tan? Her powers would be more similar to the 9x-tans, but goes between Mac and DR-DOS as opposed to the 9x-tans, who can go back and forth between Windows and MS-DOS? This is a fairly unique concept.
QuoteAlso, this talk of Apple lawsuits reminded me of how the FSF boycotted Apple (for the record, they meant that this mean no programs they make would run on Apple's OSes, most famous of which is GNU Emacs, which is what most people probably think of when someone even says "Emacs"; the FSF wasn't ever going to endorse the non-libre Macs) over these lawsuits. It didn't end until 1995, when the lawsuits ended, and with it, the boycott.The FSF analogue faction I mentioned in the OP likely had attacks (probably akin to the ASC, as this was before Linux got big) on Apple at that point. For the last of these years, Debian-tan was the FSF faction's leader, so would Debian-tan still have a distaste for Mac-tans that has lingered after all of these years? I think Debian would have engaged in peace talks with the Mac-tans, as she was the leader at the end of the conflict, so she likely would have been more peaceful than her predecessors.
QuoteWhat about System 6, 7, and 7.5? They were the primary OSes during the boycott. While System 6 and System 7 don't really have to worry about running into an FSF-tan in the modern era. 7.5-tan, on the other hand, likely does have to worry about this, as do most wanderers, even the open source ones, but 7.5 especially, as she was a leader of one of their greatest enemies at the end of the conflict.Obviously, modern FSF-tans would learn about this, as they generally think that any OS-tan that is even a bit proprietary is evil. I'd imagine may Wanderers fear the FSF the most out of the factions, as the FSF is hostile to outsiders and likely would try and pick on the Wanderers they particularly dislike.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmLiving successfully is said to be one of the best forms of revenge. With their own successful business, they're showing that they don't need the LUC's support, and can do well without them! This was a very interesting twist to UnixWare-tan's and SCO Unix-tan's backstories that make them more sympathetic. They brought their banishment from the LUC on themselves after the lawsuit that caused the SCO Group's bankruptcy, but found some new success in their own business which surely instilled some humility in them!
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmWhen GEM-tan was with Novell, she was going to be trained and upgraded, but that was canceled and she spent the rest of her time with mostly on the sidelines. Her time at Caldera was only a little better, being on the sidelines again. Almost as if she was tossed aside until 1999 when she was open-sourced. This allowed GEM's development to continue, and its open source branches FreeGEM and OpenGEM have the restored functionality of GEM 1. She left as a wanderer for some time, until she eventually joined the Vintage Federation.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmThat's spot on. The Mac-tans and Apple would've been seen as too aggressive, which hurt their changes at alliances with others for years. Their attempts would've had a bad start, though their alliances failing were from mismanaged leadership and not malice.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmIt's unfortunate that the Mac-tans were seen as too aggressive, because they didn't intend to be hostile, and were sincerely trying to build alliances. They may have thought they were just acting in self-defense. System 1-tan remained aggressive well after she became obsolete because she was protective of her faction, and worried about threats that could make it collapse, as sales for the original Mac had a good start upon its release before tanking through the later part of 1984 and through 1985. The future of the Mac was uncertain as early as 1985. During that time, Apple II-tan's income kept the family afloat.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmI'm not sure how to interpret how System 6-tan and System 7-tan would have felt working with each other on this project. That is one possibility, but there is another that isn't so bitter. When System 6.0.8 was released, it had some forward compatibility with System 7.0. It's possible that when they first met, that System 6-tan was willing to get along with System 7-tan and showed some gestures of goodwill towards her, but that would've fallen apart due to a lot of applications that worked with System 6 or earlier not working with System 7. Yet, these compatibility issues meant that System 6-tan was needed for a role in porting over those Mac programs. It was a small role in this project, but it was something, and wouldn't have been possible if System 7 didn't have those compatibility issues with certain programs.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmI think that these Mac-tans would've agreed to the peace talks, because at the very least, it was because the Windows Family were their main rivals, and Apple's efforts were the most geared towards competing against Microsoft. Preparing for the OS Wars between the Mac-tans and the Windows-tans was already costly, though the Mac-tans remained underprepared. The last thing they needed was more powerful enemies! It could also be an attempt to atone for past hostilities and failed deals.
Quote from: Aurora Borealis on April 09, 2019, 08:21:43 pmWith the FSF's extremism, they might not be convinced of the peace talks. I'd see that System 7.5-tan would still definitely be a target for the FSF just because being a a proprietary OS and a wanderer makes her an easy target.